Quote of the day
posted at 10:45 pm on July 31, 2007 by Allahpundit
“In his last moments, one of the soldiers, a young lieutenant, realized his body might be unidentifiable when he was discovered. In the dust caked on one of the vehicles he managed to write his last name, Fritz, a final act before dying.”
Blowback
Note from Hot Air management: This section is for comments from Hot Air's community of registered readers. Please don't assume that Hot Air management agrees with or otherwise endorses any particular comment just because we let it stand. A reminder: Anyone who fails to comply with our terms of use may lose their posting privilege.
Trackbacks/Pings
Trackback URL
Comments
There is no rest for the wicked.
Bring them all home now.
SilverStar830 on July 31, 2007 at 11:01 PM
Here’s another quote of the day:
I hate Time. — me
Blake on July 31, 2007 at 11:02 PM
yeah….
and I used to write my name in the snow when I peed.
CRIPES, These are not CHILDREN they are soldiers in a war!
God bless everyone of them!
God bless them for their sacrifice and for our freedom, but don’t treat em like children who just want to come home.
Sickening.
-Wasteland Man
WastelandMan on July 31, 2007 at 11:20 PM
I found “brazen”,
though no “bold”. Every other generic word is in the piece.
I second the new quote of the day,
It feels right especially after that garbage printed the “person of the year” with the tinfoil on the cover.
TheEJS on July 31, 2007 at 11:22 PM
My thoughts and prayers go out to lieutenant Fritz’s family
sorry I was pissed at Time not the Military.
Hope I did not offend anyone…
-Wasteland Man.
WastelandMan on July 31, 2007 at 11:25 PM
No one blames you WM.
TheEJS on July 31, 2007 at 11:27 PM
Troublesome.
Spirit of 1776 on July 31, 2007 at 11:30 PM
BTW I loved this quote (and title):
TheEJS on July 31, 2007 at 11:35 PM
Here, let me fix that for you Time.
BohicaTwentyTwo on July 31, 2007 at 11:39 PM
In this case Time wrote a very moving account of what happened. If we can’t trust the police we are training anymore than this it doesn’t bode well.
Bradky on July 31, 2007 at 11:59 PM
Not having our own people guard our own people is folly.
Don’t trust. Just verify.
“Their idea of good and our idea of good are two different things.”
The reason not to accept their security.
Too many Iraqis are still enmeshed 1000 year old vendettas.
And cannot be expected to treat our guys as anything by obstructions to their power struggle.
If they can’t openly arrest the guilt MF’s, at least arrange for them to eat some poisoned marzipan. Or polonium tea.
profitsbeard on August 1, 2007 at 12:10 AM
I am suprised that there is no mention of the Geneva Conventions in the article at all. How about the soldiers’ habeas corpus rights? Maybe Time would have gotten a little more fired up if they were waterboarded before they were executed.
BohicaTwentyTwo on August 1, 2007 at 12:11 AM
Bullshit.
The politicians and the media are the ones struggling to affix responsibility.
reaganaut on August 1, 2007 at 12:23 AM
The story is troublesome, but not out of our imagination. I am sure we all wonder when we see the dancing in the streets with our bravest, if they could have a gun turned on them at anytime. When I watch the Yon videos it crosses my mind. It is human nature.
The bad thing is they sat on this to try and stop any progress. It wont change what is happening in Iraq, it is to late for Time, NYT or any piece of crap news to do that, but it can change opinion here, and that is all it is intended to do.
I read how we prosecute our own who have done some bad things over there, but part of me just wished that we would one bad one, take out those responsible for this. Do some Israeli Army stuff. Hunt them down, one by one. We wont do it, but I know I would forgive whoever gave the orders, even if it was President Clinton, Yikes, but I would back her on it.
WoosterOh on August 1, 2007 at 12:30 AM
I cancelled a free gift subscription to Time quite a while back. If not, this would have sealed it.
We have brave men and women over there. Every day, no matter what their job is, their life is on the line. But our pols and MSM is worried about an agenda. It actually makes me ill, the lengths some people go to for personal gain. This happened in January, but gets reported now when the surge is going on. If we’re to believe anything, July had lower casualties. But let’s throw this story out there.
PowWow on August 1, 2007 at 12:48 AM
Yeah, I’m baffled by the knocks on Time here. This is a very good, detailed, affecting piece. It’s as though some of you will bash the media just to bash them.
Allahpundit on August 1, 2007 at 12:50 AM
I’m just wishing it was printed ear;ier. I know picky. Bad timing on my part. Good news yesterday with the NYT piece.
PowWow on August 1, 2007 at 1:08 AM
I agree. Who else is up for questioning the timing?
Yes, lets not only publish this story, lets also put it in political context of the withdrawal debate.
Even better, lets use the Karbala Incident to attack the CounterInsurgency(COIN) tactics and strategy of the surge.
Oh, and there’s nothing brazen about shooting a handcuffed prisoner in the face. Heartless doesn’t even being to describe it either.
/rant
BohicaTwentyTwo on August 1, 2007 at 1:18 AM
It’s one of those things so frakked up by the fog of war to make any kind of account in public is wrong. When you have that kind of “reporting”, with this kind of thinking to create a portrait of a “broad strata” of ISF, it becomes a “epic bold robin-hood attack” of an “insurgency” without really considering true context.
Best analogy I have is the aftermath of CNN airing footage of the bodies of Gordon, Shugart, and the Blackhawk crew. Though my feelings can’t be described here or else I would be banned, you can’t make either incident to be bigger than it was (though it was the world for the families in both situations).
Ya the IP isn’t great, hell it’s incompetent by our standards. I have family over there who deal with IP and when asked for evidence on “guilty suspects”, the IP officer responds “I just know he’s guilty.”
But I especially like,
Because it’s not like we’ve tried to having MTTs. Instead, why not paint the entire Iraqi force as dangerous and willing to lob grenades in officer’s tents. Whoops, not Iraqis- I’ll try to get that right next time.
Why not though, for once, take a look at the Iraqis who have stood up next to us. Surely it can’t be that difficult to embed with the IA 1st (IFF) Division or the 5th (Iron). Why not a piece on the IA’s 9th, being the first division to incorporate M4/M16s?
But then again I don’t expect much from you AP with your critcism of the readers over the last few months.
TheEJS on August 1, 2007 at 1:25 AM
Their sacrifice cannot be allowed to be in vain.
“War is not merely justifiable, but imperative upon honorable men, upon an honorable nation, where peace can only be obtained by the sacrifice of conscientious conviction or of national welfare”
Theodore Roosevelt
General George Patton insisted, “It is foolish and wrong to mourn the men who died. Rather we should thank God that such men lived.”
Speakup on August 1, 2007 at 1:51 AM
I can’t understand why we aren’t fighting this like we did WWII.
No one was trying to win the hearts and minds of German citizens, we decided to bomb the crap out of them till they submitted to us and quit killing us.
I hope for the day we open up on Islam in such a way that it makes Dresden look like we were tossing hand grenades from planes….
Tim Burton on August 1, 2007 at 2:00 AM
It’s funny how all their “affecting” stories always seem to portray Iraq as a lost cause, and soldiers deaths as being in vain. And this happened in January, why not run this “affecting” story then? Oh, that’s right, the progress report is next month so the story wouldn’t have been as “affecting”. But at least we have an “affecting” story about soldiers dying and Iraq being a mess, because there haven’t been any stories like that over the past three years.
forged rite on August 1, 2007 at 2:07 AM
The point to the story is that Bushitler put a puppet in to run Iraq, but he is having our soldiers killed, and Bushitler is doing nothing about it. You see, Time wants to bring them home, so they dont get fragged by Iraqi’s that hate our guts.
The story says, dont believe that Iran had anything to do with it, that is Bushitler wanting to blame them so he can start another war.
I think that is what most of us read. There has to be a some type of armor article out next month, they are due for one of them.
WoosterOh on August 1, 2007 at 3:25 AM
Because the insurgents aren’t a nation state. Wishing for massive bombing just because it was used in WW2 is ignoring the reality of what type of battle we are fighting. I think you know this but are so enamored of wanton killing of Arabs that you make this argument.
Has it ever occurred to you that some of the criticism may have been justified? OR that quite possibly your opinion may be wrong?
The sacrifices are never in vain. And the president and GOP made a mistake by not saying “We won the war, that is indisputable. But in order to secure long term peace we need to…” They should have been saying this like a mantra just as some Dems insist we are losing. Instead the GOP chose to allow the Dems to frame the debate with a statement that doesn’t really represent the reality.
That said, it may be necessary to pull back out of Baghdad, set up in strategic spots of Iraq and let the Sunnis and Shia kill each other until they have had enough.
Recommend you read http://www.foreignaffairs.org/20070301faessay86201-p0/james-d-fearon/iraq-s-civil-war.html
for a very good analysis on civil wars in the last 60 years.
We should not be allowing our military personnel to be targets like this. Pull back, continue fighting AQ, keep the Kurds and Turks from fighting, let the Iraqis settle their internal affairs and be ready to assist once they have done that.
We “contained” the Soviet Union for 40 years until they collapsed. Normalizing Iraq is going to take at least a decade, if not more.
Bradky on August 1, 2007 at 5:56 AM
The politicians and the media are the ones struggling to
affixavoid responsibility.There now, isn’t that better?
oldleprechaun on August 1, 2007 at 6:29 AM
On that point, I couldn’t agree more; and the same expectations should have been voiced before the first US military vehicle rolled across the Iraqi border.
Instead, we heard simplistic phrases about how “people everywhere want to be free,” setting up an expectation that once Saddam was gone, democracy would be embaced and all would live happily ever after.
Trouble is, “freedom” has an entirely different definition for people who’ve lived under brutal and corrupt dictatorships for generations. “Freedom” to Shias means revenge for years of persecution and deprivation at the hands of the Sunnis; and for the Sunnis, “Freedom” means grabbing back the power they had under Saddam. And, of course, “freedom” to Islamofascists means the ages-old barbarity of Sharia law. A constitution and ink-stained fingers notwithstanding, It will take generations of concerted effort, both military and political, to change that model of “freedom” in the Middle East to something remotely resembling the West’s definition of the term, and the Administration’s failure to even begin to make that case is why the Dems and the MSM have controlled the argument.
Nichevo on August 1, 2007 at 8:30 AM
Time, feh. Vultures. Only this to say about Time, to quote the only words that will be remembered from another notorious vulture–”Screw’em.”
smellthecoffee on August 1, 2007 at 9:26 AM
Re: Allah being baffled by the knocks on Time.
I agree with him, caveated. Because …
EJS’s response, that the article is problematic because it paints the ISF with a broad brush is legitimate is a good point – many IAs and IPs work well with the Americans and guard them aggressively, like here, for instance. And that is important context to keep in mind.
But the Time story itself is very good, and Marines and soldiers who depend on Iraqis for their security have this fear constantly in the back of their minds. And the military is indeed putting these advisory teams in precarious positions, but that’s the nature of the assignment.
All that said, I don’t think blaming Time for reporting this relevant story because it is bad news is totally fair, though the point about context is, as always, on the mark.
Think about it this way: those guys who died and the ones who survived – they deserve to have their story told too.
BillINDC on August 1, 2007 at 9:54 AM
Nichevo,
You are right on the money. Bush & Company underestimated how, well, alien the people of the Middle East are. We are so used to our own values, freedom, ways of thinking, that the concept that there are tens of millions of people who do not share our values and ways of thinking, who are, by our standards, just flat insane, just never occurred to them.
Our civilization is built on top of millenia of social, political, and religious-moral development that traces all the way back to Plato, Pericles, and Moses. The Middle East peoples simply do not have this massive foundation that we take for granted. Personally I do not believe that they have reached even the level we did when the Magna Carta was signed in 1215. That is one heck of a lot of catching up they have to do.
It would be one thing if we could isolate ourselves from them and wait for them to develop, but that is not an option. To bring true Western civilization to Itaq and Afghanistan will require at least two generations’ worth of effort on our part. Unfortunately we are not up to the challenge of such a sustained commitment. I am not hopeful for the future in regards to the Middle East and Muslim terrorism.
Lancer on August 1, 2007 at 10:03 AM
Agreed. Two generations sounds about right, look at the Japan Model. We’ve made mistake after mistake by not duplicating what we did in the aftermath of WWII. We actually wrote Japan’s constitution for them, including equal rights for women. We really should have done the same in Iraq and Afganistan, using our troops to enforce the laws.
There’s a great quote from a British officer in India in the 19th century, when Hindus still commonly threw widows on their husband’s funeral fires. The Hindus had claimed it was their tradition, and who were the British to change it? The response:
“You say that it is your custom to burn widows. Very well. We also have a custom: when men burn a woman alive, we tie a rope around their necks and we hang them. Build your funeral pyre; beside it, my carpenters will build a gallows. You may follow your custom. And then we will follow ours.”
When was the last time you heard of a Hindu widow being immolated?
I suppose it’s possible to reform Islam, but I doubt that it will happen from within.
ticticboom on August 1, 2007 at 12:48 PM