Mexico using enviro tactics against US border fence

posted at 8:10 am on July 31, 2007 by Bryan

Well, they’ve done their homework on us. The way to get the US to back down or stop anything is to use the environmental impact angle.

Mexico called on the United States to alter a plan to expand border fences designed to stem illegal immigration, saying the barriers would threaten migratory species accustomed to roaming freely across the frontier.

One of those is the coyote, in at least one meaning of the word.

Ways of minimizing environmental damage from the fences could include the creation of cross-border bridge areas so that ecosystems remain connected and “green corridors” of wilderness without roads that would be less attractive to smugglers, according to a report released Monday and prepared for the Mexican government by experts and activists from both nations.

The report also suggested “live” fences of cactuses, removable fencing, and more permeable barriers to allow water, insects and pollen to cross the border. Ecologists say among the species affected would be Mexican jaguars and black bears, and the endangered, antelope-like Sonora Pronghorn.

And the coyote.

Mexico also wants Washington to expand its environmental impact study on the fences and will file a complaint with the United Nations’ International Court of Justice in the Hague, Netherlands if necessary.

The proposed fencing includes at least 370 miles of vehicle barriers and metal walls supplemented by “virtual” barriers of sensors, mobile towers packed with sophisticated cameras, strong lights, radars and sensors and other technology.

The environmental report said the fences could isolate border animals into smaller population groups, affecting their genetic diversity. The strong lights and radar could interfere with nocturnal species, and the construction and traffic along the walls could affect a wider strip of border land than just the fences themselves, activists say.

Basically, they don’t want the fence at all, in either its virtual or actual designs, so they’re using the enviro angle to stop it. Like I said, they’ve done their homework on how to stop anything being built in the US.


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The worlds greatist democracy brought to its knees by the spotted desert newt

EricPWJohnson on July 31, 2007 at 8:13 AM

Because all the trash left by the illegals is so environmentally friendly…

bj1126 on July 31, 2007 at 8:16 AM

The Messican gov’t. needs to look in its own backyard if they want to clean up the environment. Unfortunately, they have our illustrious president on their side. Disgusting.

lynnv on July 31, 2007 at 8:17 AM

Isn’t this what they call “hoisted by its own petard”?

Jaibones on July 31, 2007 at 8:26 AM

Mexico is right about this issue. The fence is a ridiculous idea and should be rejected on environmental grounds. I have a much better idea of how we can stop the illegal flood and enforce our laws seriously against people who hire illegals. We’ll do it the American way: we permit every unemployed person and low-income person within a fifty mile radius to sue for lost wages a businessman who hires an illegal and hopefully bankrupt the businessman.

I will admit that there remains a security issue of muslims sneaking into the United States across both the Canadian and Mexican borders. So unless, we are willing to build a Canadian fence also and I’m certainly not willing, building the fence with Mexico isn’t going to help the security situation.

thuja on July 31, 2007 at 8:27 AM

And the irony of Mexico talking about the environment is doubly rich. That would be Mexico, creator of North America’s greatest environmental disaster, Mexico City. It is a blight on the earth…

Jaibones on July 31, 2007 at 8:28 AM

thuja are you fishing or just trolling? Don’t think a fence will help the security? How about you video yourself taking the locks of your home.

Timber Wolf on July 31, 2007 at 8:34 AM

Mexico called on the United States to alter a plan to expand border fences designed to stem illegal immigration, saying the barriers would threaten migratory species accustomed to roaming freely across the frontier.

Jesus! That is why we need the fence – to stop the ‘migratory species (illegals) accustomed to roaming freely across the frontier (border)’.

What is it going to take for this country to stop this invasion before it is too late – if it isn’t already too late?

OBX Pete on July 31, 2007 at 8:43 AM

thuja are you fishing or just trolling?

I’m quite serious. I object to the fence, because it is premised on avoiding the issue of who is responsible for the illegal invasion: the businessmen who break our laws and deliberately hire illegals.

thuja on July 31, 2007 at 8:43 AM

Isn’t the Korean DMZ some kind of environmental Shangra La? Maybe we just need 50,000 troops and a bunch of landmines, you know, to protect the Sonora Pronghorn.

trubble on July 31, 2007 at 8:47 AM

Surely, these people can be taken seriously when it comes to concern for the environment, right?

Jaibones on July 31, 2007 at 8:48 AM

Timber Wolf,

I don’t think thuja is trolling. His plan to let legal Americans and resident aliens sue employers who hire illegals sounds pretty good to me. When it gets too costly to hire illegals, businesses will stop doing so; if there’s no jobs here, illegals will stop coming.
The actual effectiveness of a border fence stretching hundreds of miles is, IMO, a legitimate question. I think much of the problem with the debate about the border fence is the perception by some that the fence has to be 100% effective to be worthwhile. If I believed that, I would oppose it. No defense is 100%, nor does it need to be in order to be worth building. The question is, how much will it reduce the illegal crossings. Properly maintained and patrolled, I believe it will result in a significant reduction. The Israeli fence was followed by a 70% reduction in Palestinian terrorist attacks, so clearly a physical barrier can have a noticeable effect.
As far as a border fence with Canada, that may be something we have to consider in the future, but right now the southern border is the priority.

Lancer on July 31, 2007 at 8:48 AM

Hey, these guys might be onto something:

The report also suggested “live” fences

If they mean armed National Guard troops, I’m all for it!

kjspeedial on July 31, 2007 at 8:49 AM

I will admit that there remains a security issue of muslims sneaking into the United States across both the Canadian and Mexican borders. So unless, we are willing to build a Canadian fence also and I’m certainly not willing, building the fence with Mexico isn’t going to help the security situation.

thuja on July 31, 2007 at 8:27 AM

Exactly. If we build a fence on the Mexican border, the jihadis will just swim to Canada.

RedWinged Blackbird on July 31, 2007 at 8:49 AM

Redwinged Blackbird,

“Swim to Canada”?? Boy, I have seen straw men before, but that one takes the cake!

The jihadis won’t have to swim to Canada, they’ll fly there from their homes in London.

I disagree with thuja on whether we should build the fence in the first place (I am all for it), but on this he is right: If we want to build it to stop foreign jihadis, we should build one in the north as well.

Lancer on July 31, 2007 at 8:55 AM

Thuja….

I’m no fan of the Jacob Marleys of enterprise but how are you going to hold them responsible? Right now you ask for two forms of ID and fill out the I-19. Green Card and SSN card, with NO WAY TO VERIFY either. Nice try……your argument doesn’t hold water…

That aside here is the old cliche……wish like hell it was a cliche….

My wife was T-boned in an intersection yesterday by a fella who considered red lights optional….yeah yeah yeah……
same story of NO LICENSE, NO GREEN CARD, NO ID, NO REGISTRATION, NO INSURANCE, NO SEAT BELT……..yeah sure Lim, tell us another……^^$%#$$#$#@%$#$%^^

Thank God for Honda. The wife is a little bruised but otherwise in one piece. Where is this fella this morning?
Getting COUNTY MEDICAL CARE on my dime.

Take your ‘virtual’ fence and sit on it.

Limerick on July 31, 2007 at 9:05 AM

I’m quite serious.

thuja on July 31, 2007 at 8:43 AM

No, you’re not. Businesses don’t operate in a vacuum, and the labor market is made up of the availability of local workers and what they demand for their labor. They will hire those who are here legally or those who are willing to present themselves as available legally.

The job of securing our borders is the government’s; good luck finding any reference to Walmart in the constitution.

Jaibones on July 31, 2007 at 9:08 AM

Seeing as we cannot control our borders the way most countries do we simply have to make it less profitable for them to come here. Hit the wallets of businesses who hire, cities that provide sanctuary, etc.

Or my own special option: If you get caught here illegally then you are put on an old cruise ship in San Diego where you will enjoy three squares a day for your extremely slow boat ride to the most southern port in Mexico. Make it so the entire process will take them months instead of days to try and jump the border again. I am willing to pay for that.

mojowire on July 31, 2007 at 9:08 AM

I agree that “the fence” is not the end all to the illegal immigration problem and part of the equation is holding U.S. businesses to account for hiring undocumented workers. Allowing our own misfits to sue however is batshit crazy. thuja, do you believe we have too little litigation in this country at present? Giving the unemployed (many of which are just lazy ass bums) an opportunity to sue makes no sense. Have you read recently that there are now over three quarters of a million people in this country suing for SS disabilty benefits? Unfortunately any excuse to get “something for nothing” prompts many (thank God not most) of our fellow citizens to attempt to board the gravy train. This of course explains the existence of the Democratic Party. And suing big, bad, evil business for your misfortune fits right in with the entitlement playbook.

Enforcement of existing employment law will be entirely sufficient, and perhaps increased fines and harsher sentencing.

Alamo on July 31, 2007 at 9:12 AM

The irony of this is so sweet that I’m having a hard time typing without falling out of my chair. I haven’t had enough coffee yet to actually absorb this whole story.

We were down in the valley (Rio Grande valley in Texas for those of you who don’t know) a few weeks ago. The border was LITTERED with all kinds of trash. For Mexicans to be worried about the ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACT of a border fence is the funniest thing I’ve read all year.

I need more coffee…

pullingmyhairout on July 31, 2007 at 9:18 AM

Limerick on July 31, 2007 at 9:05 AM

I’m glad your wife is ok, Limerick. *&%$%( like that really makes you want to scream, doesn’t it? We follow all the rules, carry insurance, pay taxes, and end up GETTING SCREWED.

pullingmyhairout on July 31, 2007 at 9:21 AM

Build physical and electronic fence system, jail business people who hire illegal aliens, deport visa abusers, secure identification techniques, ban Mexican identification devices, eliminate Mexican drug lords in border towns, remove federal funding of sanctuary communities (San Francisco is first), tax sanctuary churches (they are involved in political activities—they lose their 501c3 status), increase military presence along the border, free jailed border agents and increase the pay of border agents, investigate LARAZA and CAIR.

If Americans cannot pick it, build it, deliver it, clean it or do it, forget it.

saved on July 31, 2007 at 9:22 AM

Well, you knew this was going to happen, right?

And come on…you already can see the border from space, what’s the difference?

Bob's Kid on July 31, 2007 at 9:24 AM

pullingmyhairout on July 31, 2007 at 9:21 AM

….

thanks…

With the offenses I listed, plus the red-light running and crossing the border that is what?…eight broken laws….
But we can’t touch him. Some libtard is going to say ‘it could have been anyone’…’has nothing to do with being illegal’…..fine….then deport the SOB and we don’t have to worry about the next 8 laws this gentleman is going to break.

Limerick on July 31, 2007 at 9:24 AM

I’m no fan of the Jacob Marleys of enterprise but how are you going to hold them responsible? Right now you ask for two forms of ID and fill out the I-19. Green Card and SSN card, with NO WAY TO VERIFY either. Nice try……your argument doesn’t hold water…

Limerick on July 31, 2007 at 9:05 AM

Sad to say, you have an excellent point. My reply is that our top priority should be a way to verify the Green Card and SSN, and not a fence. No jobs means much fewer illegals.

thuja on July 31, 2007 at 9:25 AM

I agree that “the fence” is not the end all to the illegal immigration problem and part of the equation is holding U.S. businesses to account for hiring undocumented workers. Allowing our own misfits to sue however is batshit crazy. thuja, do you believe we have too little litigation in this country at present? Giving the unemployed (many of which are just lazy ass bums) an opportunity to sue makes no sense. Have you read recently that there are now over three quarters of a million people in this country suing for SS disabilty benefits? Unfortunately any excuse to get “something for nothing” prompts many (thank God not most) of our fellow citizens to attempt to board the gravy train. This of course explains the existence of the Democratic Party. And suing big, bad, evil business for your misfortune fits right in with the entitlement playbook.

Alamo on July 31, 2007 at 9:12 AM

It’s not that I really disagree with you. It’s just that I tried to think up an enforcement mechanism that could get widespread Democratic support and thus pass Congress. In my ideal world, people who hired deliberately hire illegal aliens would be tried for treason. Of course, now people guilty of more traditional forms of treason aren’t even tried for treason.

thuja on July 31, 2007 at 9:31 AM

Armadillos are a vector for leprosy. Reason enough to stifle migratory species.

captivated_dem on July 31, 2007 at 9:40 AM

HAHA!

Shameless. Do they have no shame? None at all? How obviously deceptive. They might as well say “May we please keep exporting our citizens, please?” I thinks they would get more traction that way.

Pro-enforcement types need to post videos of the trash dumps illegals leave behind, lets do an enviromental study on illegals. Use night vision to film them then look at the mess they leave behind during the day. You know Discovery Channel style. That would be humiliating, and the exact opposite of their desired effect. That’ll shut down the enviro-angle real quick. Minute Men get on it.

Theworldisnotenough on July 31, 2007 at 9:52 AM

I’m quite serious. I object to the fence, because it is premised on avoiding the issue of who is responsible for the illegal invasion: the businessmen who break our laws and deliberately hire illegals.

thuja on July 31, 2007 at 8:43 AM

Or the country that purposely exports its citizens to prop up their economy? They of course have no culpability…

Theworldisnotenough on July 31, 2007 at 9:55 AM

Mexico is right about this issue. The fence is a ridiculous idea and should be rejected on environmental grounds. I have a much better idea of how we can stop the illegal flood and enforce our laws seriously against people who hire illegals. We’ll do it the American way: we permit every unemployed person and low-income person within a fifty mile radius to sue for lost wages a businessman who hires an illegal and hopefully bankrupt the businessman.

I will admit that there remains a security issue of muslims sneaking into the United States across both the Canadian and Mexican borders. So unless, we are willing to build a Canadian fence also and I’m certainly not willing, building the fence with Mexico isn’t going to help the security situation.

thuja on July 31, 2007 at 8:27 AM

The part you are missing is the large numbers of illegals that do not need to be hired by a large company but exist in a parralel society. The resources need to enforce the plan you have with any effectivenesss means person of ehtnicities other than Hispanic (mostly) would be suing hundreds of Mom and Pop stores, not the best idea.

Increased enforcement and a few hundred miles of fence and we as a nation may have enough trust in our government that 200 miles of fence is enough. That will only happen if Mexico and the illegal alien lobby shut the he@@ up. The more they protest the more we want the fence. Illegals lost amnesty the first day they marched and had the gaul to wave a Mexican flag and demand their “rights.” Sow the wind…

Theworldisnotenough on July 31, 2007 at 10:00 AM

You know

A moat around England is not keeping out the illegals and the drugs

The Large Sea is not keeping the Africans out of Italy

Just thinking about our huge wall – I think a madatory 10 years without parole for knowingly hiring or selling to an illegal will stop it once and for all

Of course then there’s the national ID card thing again

Americans want

Jobs, but mostly inside

Security, for free

Cheap Goods

All the oil they can swallow

And most of our oil and cheap goods come from countries with the largest illegal immigrant populations

Mexico
China
Venesuela

Flame on

EricPWJohnson on July 31, 2007 at 10:00 AM

Also bad for the environment….. Illegal Aliens coming across the border!!!

libertytexan on July 31, 2007 at 10:02 AM

Limerick – I am so sorry to hear about your wife. Please send her my best wishes.
Unfortunately, I went through a very similar situation ten years ago in SoCal and, the people that ended up in the hospital were me and my two young sons, ages 9 and 11.
The illegal, uninsured, can’t speak English, no car registration person walked away clean with a ticket for “following too close”.
Kinda concentrates the mind, ya know? (I am sure you do know)
I will caution you that if your wife has a hard time recovering from this get her medical help as soon as possible. You will know that she has not recovered if she tells you that she continues to have nightmares about it, has thoughts of killing the person that did this to her or, has a difficult time riding (not driving) in a car. I ended up with a full blown case of PTSD. I had all three symptoms and have to actively fight against some of them to this day, especially when I am a passenger in a car driven by another.
My poor sainted husband… He tries so hard to drive in a manner that won’t cause me distress.

Babs on July 31, 2007 at 10:14 AM

You know, we kill coyotes in Texas. They kill livestock and carry rabies…

pullingmyhairout on July 31, 2007 at 10:15 AM

Maybe Acme® makes a DIY envirnmentally-friendly fence-building kit that would be acceptable to the coyotes?
beep! beep!

andycanuck on July 31, 2007 at 10:16 AM

EricPWJohnson on July 31, 2007 at 10:00 AM

Eric, you are right about a few things – Americans want cheap stuff and it costs us BIG TIME. But as for the jobs American’s “won’t do,” I was up in the Northeast a while back and all the road construction crews were lily white. Down her in Tejas, they are all hispanic – most likely a legal crew boss hiring day laborers who are illegal. That was just an observation. I think if a job pays enough, there are plenty of Americans willing to step up and take them.

pullingmyhairout on July 31, 2007 at 10:19 AM

Well, we need a fence and we need to discourage businesses from hiring illegals. There is no reason we can’t have a little of both. Obviosuly we’ll never get a continuous fence along the border, but we don’t really need to.

Put the fence up in the high traffic areas and use it to funnel the illegal wave into smaller areas where we have assets on the ground. There are also areas that are so inhospitable for humans, we don’t need a fence. The coyotes (both kinds) will find their way to the openings.

I’d be against lawsuits against companies, though. That just makes the trial lawyers richer and is ripe for abuse. I just have no faith that our federal government can solve problems. State and local authorities need to have more control. It also boggles my mind how much power the Judicial branch is wielding these days. Each time I hear someone whine, “that’s unconstitutional” my blood pressure goes up 5 points. The Federal government is just getting too big, and the larger it gets, the less effective it becomes.

reaganaut on July 31, 2007 at 10:19 AM

I was up in the Northeast a while back and all the road construction crews were lily white.

Oh yes, our corrupt politicians and union thugs are still in a loving relationship. Those highway jobs pay big money and of course take forever to complete. DOn’t get me started on bridge repair….

In MA, crews are still forced to hire police, instead of flagmen as well. It’s not uncommon to see 4 or 5 state police cars lined up in a 2 mile span, even more at night.

reaganaut on July 31, 2007 at 10:26 AM

Gotta luv it…

and Bushy just cut the Nat. Guard on the border in half…

I have heard of NO big ICE raids since the immigration bill debacle.

What we need is enforcement here folks…

Militarize the border…. Mexico be damed…

Romeo13 on July 31, 2007 at 10:41 AM

I recall a fence that worked. It was a double fence with landmines in between. I never did see any Cuban nationals trying to cross that line to get to Gitmo. Not even when they were willing to put to sea in an old refrigerator or a 55 gallon drum in the hopes of somehow making it to Florida. Would have been easier to ask for asylum from us on their own island, no?

I’m not advocating landmines. It’s a horrible thing. But what if we had the Guard down there pretending to mine it? Set off a random explosion now and again to make the illusion complete?

Nah. This is all tongue-in-cheek. But don’t believe for a second that fences and/or walls don’t work. Ask anyone from Berlin. Ask anyone in prison. Ask the friggin’ Chinese. You can still see their wall from space.

Walls and such aren’t perfect. But they sure slow ‘em down.

Perhaps whimpering about it not being a 100% solition isn’t productive. Things are bad enough with the status quo that I’d settle for an 80% solution. Combine that with pressure on employers? We might get somewhere in that case.

JunkCoast on July 31, 2007 at 10:44 AM

I believe we currently have four (4) bills, approving the funding AND building of a fence along our southern border. So, WHERE’S THE FENCE? Just how many bills, from Congress, are needed to get this job done?

DfDeportation on July 31, 2007 at 10:52 AM

Mexico: Bastions of Environmental Wealth

DfDeportation on July 31, 2007 at 11:09 AM

I think a madatory 10 years without parole for knowingly hiring or selling to an illegal will stop it once and for all

EricPWJohnson on July 31, 2007 at 10:00 AM

Leaving behind the fence question for a bit…you are exactly correct here. Financial penalties won’t cut it…they’ll just respond by hiring more illegals so they can afford to pay the fines. If you frog-march a few CEOs/HR flunkies into prison, it will stop.

James on July 31, 2007 at 11:10 AM

Just how many bills…..
DfDeportation on July 31, 2007 at 10:52 AM

Plenty, in the freezer. Earmarked for other things of course.

Limerick on July 31, 2007 at 11:11 AM

You know, we kill coyotes in Texas. They kill livestock and carry rabies…

pullingmyhairout on July 31, 2007 at 10:15 AM

That’s right and if a fence will cut down on the number of those varmints as well as the other kind, all well and good. Just another arugument for the fence.

conservnut on July 31, 2007 at 11:16 AM

OMG! Time to tear down all these western cattle fences, too!

Isn’t fencing a hate crime?

desertdweller on July 31, 2007 at 11:34 AM

“Well, they’ve done their homework on us.”

You are right, Bryan. But, who wouldn’t do so when in an argument, whether or not they were honest in their intentions..

Personally, I’d like to know what effort the government has already made in addressing the environmental review process that is required by law. I’m not an expert in the federal process but am familiar with it as practiced in local and state settings. It’s a process. It has categories for types of development. It has check off’s. It has initial reviews, middle reviews, and final reviews. Paperwork is generated. I am not sure but have little doubt that it has a waiver paths in cases of overriding federal concerns; not the government has to do waivers if mitigations can be implemented without much of a problem. Reagnaut [reaganaut on July 31, 2007 at 10:19 AM] had no problem noting what needs to be done.

Congress has already passed legislation to build a fence. DfDeportation [DfDeportation on July 31, 2007 at 10:52 AM] says four have been. So, what environmental paperwork have our diligent government directors already completed in this regard?

Look, I am for good, no, great border security. I am for a real, physical strong fence. I am absolutely disgusted with those who have ignored the issue of illegal immigration until it became a crisis for the SECOND time. I am mad as hell at those who are still effin’ around on their job of implementing border security like first-day-at-work teenage store clerks playing with the iPhones (that their parents bought just to annoy AP) in the back room thinking they have a four hour break. (Sorry for insulting teenage store clerks.)

One wins an argument by being prepared, dotting the i’s and crossing the t’s. If those in Washington responsible for being prepared haven’t done their thinking and processed the paperwork, I want to know why they haven’t.

I hope they haven’t turned a blind eye to another law, an environmental law, like they been doing for years with the immigration laws and border security laws. If they haven’t acted in the professional, diligent and competent manner in something as simple doing an EIS, they shouldn’t be in the jobs they are holding and we should get rid of them.

Dusty on July 31, 2007 at 2:09 PM

I think Mexico is probably more concerned about a whole different type of coyote and the billions of dollars illegal immigration makes for their economy. You only have to take a few trips south of the border to know that Mexico isn’t concerned about the environment.

Buzzy on July 31, 2007 at 6:26 PM

Thats a good one..Their going to go to the United Nations.. The U N hasn’t stopped anyone from their whale hunts and couldn’t care less about blasting them with sonar..Then again its the United Nations against the United States so anything is possible, with this group. They’ll all side with Mexico on this one..

Legions on July 31, 2007 at 7:21 PM

Just shoot the F**kers.

auspatriotman on August 1, 2007 at 1:35 AM

I guess Mexico is being environmentally friendly by raping, beating and robbing their illegal aliens….

Tim Burton on August 1, 2007 at 1:49 AM