Pew poll: Support for suicide bombings drops throughout Muslim world
posted at 10:50 pm on July 24, 2007 by Allahpundit
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There’s a lot (a lot) more to the survey than just that question and just that region so, as always, you’re well advised to click and skim. A few samples, though, to lure you in. This first chart suggests that as a general but not ironclad rule, the closer a country is to Israel the more suicide-happy they are. The standout numbers are of course for the Palestinians, who continue to set the standard for savagery against which all others are measured.
Here’s the big one showing the dramatic drop in support (and small but alarming rise in Islamifying Turkey). What we’re looking at, I think, is an exceedingly grim but important unintended benefit of the insurgency: whereas “suicide bombings” used to be synonymous with attacks on Israel, now they’re synonymous with attacks on Iraqis. Funny how substituting Muslim victims for Jewish ones tends to concentrate the mind. Note especially the amazing drop in Pakistan:
So much for the jihad. Since we’re on the subject of backlash and unintended consequences, though, have a look at this. Venezuela led in this category in 2002, too, but since then support there for free markets has risen further by nine points. Viva Chavez?
And finally this one, which is predictable in the aggregate and shocking in the specific instance of which country it is that places highest for satisfaction. Exit question: Is that because all the people who are dissatisfied have already crossed the border and are living here now?
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lies, damn lies and statistics
tommylotto on July 24, 2007 at 11:02 PM
O/t, it seems the Thompson’s campaign is having trouble with that whole denying controversy thing.
I think they should do a little bit more research before denying reports. Thought I’d pass that along to you, Allah. Tried to email you, but gmail isn’t working for me tonight.
amerpundit on July 24, 2007 at 11:04 PM
Wow, that is a lot of info. I just scanned the first 20 or so pages. Surprising polls in Pakistan. Most, in fact three quarters believe terrorisim is the biggest threat and don’t support suicide bombings.
Perhaps Mushy is not in as much trouble as we think.
conservnut on July 24, 2007 at 11:06 PM
And the Palestinians deserve their own country?
xplodeit on July 24, 2007 at 11:08 PM
Hmmmm, looks like Pew had an “oh shit, the next Muslim poll better not look this bad” moment.
Cuffy Meigs on July 24, 2007 at 11:13 PM
Great news that those numbers are going down, however if the percentages of those who approve are an accurate representative of their populations that still leaves tens of millions in the world to deal with!
redshirt on July 24, 2007 at 11:18 PM
That is a real shocker. I was in Reynosa (just across the border) on business last week. Half of the town is slums, not like over here slums, like third world stuff. Really poor. Of course it is a border town and things are typically worse in those.
conservnut on July 24, 2007 at 11:18 PM
Hey when are the Palestinians going to get their own country?
BadgerHawk on July 24, 2007 at 11:19 PM
Well, we tried land for peace, but then they complained all the soil was scorched and charred, said something about “the acidic Jews.”
BKennedy on July 24, 2007 at 11:29 PM
uh huh…
TheBigOldDog on July 24, 2007 at 11:30 PM
OK, now I am starting to understand….Should have known.
conservnut on July 24, 2007 at 11:37 PM
If Mexicans are so damn “highly satisfied” in Mexico, why are they sneaking over here?
BKennedy on July 24, 2007 at 11:38 PM
Two things here to note:
1) Look at the Jordanian numbers from ‘03 to ‘05. They go up, but after the hotels in Amman get hit there is an immediate drop of 1/2 of support. This is related to my second note.
2) These folks aren’t opposing suicide bombing, they’re saying they don’t trust the judgement of suicide bombers as to who legitamite targets are and what kind of collateral judgement is acceptable. If Danforth and Albright really wanted hard answers they would have asked if these folks support suicide bombings in America and Israel. Then you’d have your real answers.
The Apologist on July 24, 2007 at 11:40 PM
Should read “collateral damage” not collateral judgement. Time to go to bed.
The Apologist on July 24, 2007 at 11:42 PM
Support for suicide bombers drops among the muslim populations. Support for the war in Iraq increases among the U.S. population. The surge begins to work. The pro-U.S. candidate wins in Germany, France, and even Mexico. Hillary and Obama start attacking each other. John Edwards slips farther and farther into irrelevancy. Foreign investment in U.S. markets soars. The federal budget deficit is cut in half. The Democrat congress has lower approval ratings than Bush and his actually increase slightly. If Musharraf comes down on Waziristan like the heavy hand of God, which is a BIG if, we might not have to see president Hillary in ‘09. Or maybe she’ll still win and just claim credit for all the positive change already under way.
D0WNT0WN on July 24, 2007 at 11:53 PM
Those are actually impressive numbers, but just the fact that somebody has to even ASK that question says a lot about their culture and religion.
Tony737 on July 25, 2007 at 12:03 AM
Egypt’s religious adviser says Muslims can change religion
“CAIRO: Egypt’s official religious adviser has ruled that Muslims are free to change their faith as it is a matter between an individual and God, in a move which could have far-reaching implications for the country’s Christians.”
more…
Connie on July 25, 2007 at 12:04 AM
The Right of Return of the Jewish People
Connie on July 25, 2007 at 12:10 AM
It’s pure Bullsh!t. The whole thing. You can’t trust the source.
TheBigOldDog on July 25, 2007 at 12:19 AM
Agreed, I thought some of those numbers looked odd.
conservnut on July 25, 2007 at 12:25 AM
hehe…Well maybe you cannot trust the source but it is the same source that came up with the 2003 Pew Poll showing that over 58% of the Indonesians had from some to a lot of confidence in Bin Laden. In 2005 it went down to 36%. In 2007 it….ooopsy went back up to 38%.
Unwarranted Attack on Diana West a response!
PierreLegrand on July 25, 2007 at 12:39 AM
It’s all Bushitlers fault! Uh … Wait!
Contrary to popular opinion, perhaps the people living in the Middle East do value life. Perhaps.
DannoJyd on July 25, 2007 at 12:40 AM
So yea I am sure that we are can sleep warm and snuggly at night knowing that “only” 38% of the Muslims inside of the worlds most populace Islamic Nation do feel some kinship with dead man Bin Laden.
We should ask them how they feel about Al Qaeda. Betcha the numbers would skyrocket.
PierreLegrand on July 25, 2007 at 12:41 AM
“War is deceit.” -Mohammad, pedophile warlord, circa 630 A.D.
I trust a poll of Muslims talking about their true intentions toward infidels the way I trust someone selling Rolexes for $50 in Queens.
profitsbeard on July 25, 2007 at 1:49 AM
Absolutely. In fact, the point of “suicide bombing” is totally meaningless. The question is: Do you support attacks against the West? or against Christians? or against Jews? … The tactic of choice doesn’t matter one iota.
progressoverpeace on July 25, 2007 at 2:07 AM
Since Mexico shows up on one of the charts above, I was just wondering how they REALLY polled the Mexicans, since the last number I heard was that 10% of Mexicans are in the US. That’s a pretty large percentage. Do they count them as “Mexicans dissatisfied with Mexico” or did they register them as “US citizens” and then take their input about the US? I didn’t see this addressed in the report. Perhaps I missed it.
progressoverpeace on July 25, 2007 at 2:18 AM
The reason Mexico is so happy is they get all the money sent back from the States and they still get to take their siesta. Plus they are a laid back people.
There’s a Mexican proverb:” What can not be changed, must be endured”
Que sera sera
A quick study of Mexican idioms will show they have a pretty healthy take on life.
TheSitRep on July 25, 2007 at 6:09 AM
When you party celebrates infanticide then logic dictates that liberal
politicians only have children as props. So, they where all thinking, hey whose prop is that? Should I smile? Where is planned parenthood on this?
TheSitRep on July 25, 2007 at 6:15 AM
oops wrong thread.
TheSitRep on July 25, 2007 at 6:15 AM
Excellent point. Still, it was interesting to see that undemocratic Kuwait and Morocco had much better results then “democratic” and supposedly pro-west Turkey. And these guys want in on the EU? Good luck with that.
madne0 on July 25, 2007 at 8:48 AM
Exactly – I did the math on this one and that’s over 100 million Muslims who often/sometimes think suicide bombing is justified. So if even 1% are willing to put their money where there mouth is, that’s 1,028,766 suicide bombers. If the improvements are real, then that’s great – but the media’s going to spin this as if there were no problem, and that’s simply not true.
Laura on July 25, 2007 at 9:06 AM
*their mouth
argh!
Laura on July 25, 2007 at 9:07 AM
That’s not healthy, its profoundly fatalistic. I have a theroy that the laid back mañana passivism of Spanish culture is a cultural inheritance going back to the inshallah-culture of al-Andalus.
aengus on July 25, 2007 at 9:50 AM
In other news, beheading, Stoning, and Stabbings are up!
Egfrow on July 25, 2007 at 10:05 AM
Not necessarily. Lets say you profoundly hate homosexuals. Then your son announces he is gay. You cannot change it and therefore must endure it no?
Swinehound on July 25, 2007 at 10:17 AM
Well I suppose. It just strikes me as being more passivity than acceptance. Maybe I’m just thinking about it the wrong way.
aengus on July 25, 2007 at 10:56 AM
aengus: I doubt that whatever passivity you see in Spanish culture is a residue of Moorish rule in Spain. If you take a look I believe you will find that it was the Moors and the Jews who were responsible for much of the intellectual progress that later took root in Western Europe – mostly but not exclusively in the sciences. And the Spanish were hardly passive when it came to torturing and executing “heretics”.
Then again, NOBODY expects the Spanish Inquisition! ;)
ronbo on July 25, 2007 at 11:09 AM
That’s a fine insight.
Kralizec on July 25, 2007 at 11:14 AM
In attempting to understand Mexico’s results, it’s probably important to consider that, according to reports, Mexican immigrants send much of their earnings to their families in Mexico. If money helps make human beings feel satisfied, free money probably works better.
Kralizec on July 25, 2007 at 11:25 AM
I disagree that these polls show Muslims are against suicide bombings. Muslims are for suicide bombings and violence in general in the non-Muslim world, the dar al Harb or House of War, but against violence in the Muslim world, the dar al Salaam or House of Peace. The Koran makes it clear that it is every Muslim’s duty to make war on non-Muslims until all the world submits to Allah. Therefore, suicide bombings in Israel and the West are good in Islamic morality because it furthers their faith. Suicide bombings against Muslims are bad because that attacks their faith.
This poll does not show a shift in opinion but rather is exploring different corners of the same rigid orthodox belief system. Muslims have not changed their mind about suicide bombings. They believe, as they always have, that such violence should be directed against infidels, not Muslims. It all boils down to Muslim bigotry: Dead infidels = good. Dead Muslims = bad.
Tantor on July 25, 2007 at 12:26 PM
This is an interesting idea…
What makes you think so? No doubt that the Jewish Culture is particularly fascinated with education but the Moors? Are you sure? The Moors were around for a long time and you are sure that they all were dedicated to advancing knowledge? What role did the Greeks play? What role did the Romans play…??
The war is not about Palestinian Rights
PierreLegrand on July 25, 2007 at 1:06 PM
This poll does very little in the way of revealing what those Muslim countries with some say-so in the Middle East think.
For example where is Saudi Arabia, all the -stan countries, India (which ain’t Muslim but with a billion people a wee bit are Muslim), Iran, the Sheik countries, Syria.
I mean all the countries listed in the Poll have good reason not to like suicide bombers, because their the ones getting blown up (save maybe Palestine which is why the percentage there is so high).
Furthermore Pakistan, Turkey, Jordan, Lebanon, Egypt… all of those countries have a great deal of Western influence in them.
PresidenToor on July 25, 2007 at 2:21 PM
Albright is the joke of the world. Clinton put her there because he knew she was weak and would just roll over for whatever he wanted. I wish – she – would – just – go – away. Of course, there really is nothing else she could do (not that she did much here anyway).
I bet the actual question went something like this ‘you don’t really support suicide bombing to kill innocent muslims do you?’
nice poll taken to support a preconceived/misguided thesis.
ThackerAgency on July 25, 2007 at 2:43 PM
actually I just read the question at the bottom of the poll, and it pretty much says just that. Nice leading question.
They should have asked it with the two disclaimers if they wanted a SIGNIFICANT number.
#1 support for suicide bombing against muslims
#2 support for suicide bombing against non-muslims
I bet these numbers would show a startling contrast. THAT would be BAD news that Albright would not want to report. Instead, she used the civilian/military distinction.
ThackerAgency on July 25, 2007 at 2:55 PM
I have to admit, I kinda like the suicide bombers who explode before they’re supposed to.
OhEssYouCowboys on July 25, 2007 at 5:41 PM
For any prevouis poll showing Suicide bombing is justified Often or Sometimes – it’s not a big surprize to see those numbers go down. Many maybe dead already or in Iraq trying to be, which would make it difficult to vote and be counted. The high Rarely margin bothers me more because I see that as being the possible pool of available recruits. After all they already have the inclination to accept suicide as a legitimate option.
wubu on July 25, 2007 at 8:47 PM
I’m late to this conversation, but wanted to chime in about Mexico. First, I wonder if the poor are being represented in the polling data, it may be skewed. But second, I’m not surprised that they’re well above average on the satisfied index. Mexico is a great country with a great culture, they’ve got a lot to be thankful for and show it, and they’re not just fatalistic.
Because I’m a “build the fence first!” and “deport the criminals” kind of guy, I think there is greater temptation to real prejudice and that comes out in some of the above comments. Just because we’re pro-American doesn’t mean it’s OK to bust on the whole country of Mexico–that is foolish and small-minded, and sometimes even shameful. Let’s keep America great by respecting other cultures and by not thinking we’re the only ones who can think our own culture/heritage is praiseworthy.
G. Charles on July 25, 2007 at 11:16 PM
I hadn’t been busting on Mexico (not in this thread, at least) but I think you may not have seen the point that 44% of the Mexicans viewed the US as the biggest threat to them. I’m not sure how that would rank on your respect-o-meter. If the real number is anything close to that …
I don’t dole out respect just because something exists. I think that respect must be earned. I have not seen Mexico do anything to earn any sort of respect. They have demonstrated, so far as I have seen, nothing but an utter contempt for the US and our culture. We are not the ones screaming slurs about Mexicans in our sports stadiums … and beauty contests …
If we are bound to respect the Mexicans (which we are NOT), then the Mexicans should be bound 1000 x’s more tightly to having to respect us. But we know how Mexico and Mexicans treat the US, don’t we?
Reciprocity is the rule of fairness. When Mexico starts showing some respect to the US then I will begin to consider respecting Mexico, if they earn it. And not a second before.
As to Mexican culture, I don’t care for it. But that’s a matter of taste.
progressoverpeace on July 26, 2007 at 12:29 AM
Let’s view the numbers from another perspective, the numbers are dropping (dead) because the numbers of those malleable enough to carry out their hate, are dwindling.
Has anyone thought that this is on par with the abortion issue. They are aborting (blowing themselves up) in numbers that will not allow their word/work to proliferate.
If you see it back off and report it.
MSGTAS on July 26, 2007 at 10:24 AM
This is the easiest question ever asked!!! Look at how many people claim to not know the answer. IS IT OKAY TO STRAP A BOMB TO YOURSELF AND BLOW YOURSELF UP KILLING INNOCENT CIVILIANS? — “Gee, I don’t know.”
As far as I am concerned, anyone who did not answer NEVER is a terrorist or terrorist sympathizer or supporter. The problem is I bet many of the Muslims that said Never are also in that category. Ever hear of “kitman” or “Taqiyya”.
tommylotto on July 26, 2007 at 12:43 PM
Killing civilians, innocent or not, is part of war. If you don’t think so, then you would have lost WWII for us.
The point about muslim attitudes is whether they want to kill us, not their tactic of choice – and, quite frankly, it doesn’t matter if they want to kill our soldiers or our civilians, as either is an act of war against us and requires the same response.
progressoverpeace on July 26, 2007 at 2:26 PM
Like it or not the targeted killing of civilians is not a part of war. In fact, it is a war crime. (See, the Fourth Geneva Convention)
I would not have lost WWII, because the Fourth Convention would not have been adopted yet. So, I would still have fire bomb Dresden and nuked Japan. However, it sounds like you would get our troops today arraigned on war crimes charges.
However much I would like to “take the gloves off”, we cannot, because we are signators to the Conventions.
Maybe we should amend the Conventions to take into consideration Islam’s de-centralized war against the West. Their nations sign on to the conventions, but then they support non-state groups that do not follow the conventions. They cheat. Once again its Taqiyya.
tommylotto on July 26, 2007 at 6:13 PM
Mutually Assured Destruction has been our stated defense strategy for decades. That strategy includes the incineration of every man, woman, child, and pet of the enemy. Are you still going to hold to the idea that we do not consider killing civilians to be part of war?
Charges that are pressed by whom? Who enforces the 4th Geneva Conventions? …
You are not seriously going to claim that the nature of war changes because someone decides to put a rule book up – which we violate with our MAD strategy, along with many other normal operations of state?
As I said, explain MAD in the context of the 4th Geneva Conventions.
But, if you think that things like 4th Geneva Conventions work, why not just amend them to make all war illegal? Problem solved.
No. Just make war illegal. Why bother with anything less?
We have never followed the conventions, and neither has anyone else. They represent nothing but wishes that were wished after WWII. They are nothing but a dream without any attachment to reality – in same vein as those who called WWI “the war to end all wars”. Another nice thought that is totally divorced from reality.
progressoverpeace on July 26, 2007 at 6:45 PM
Tommy,
The fact is that the only true and universal war crime is LOSING.
progressoverpeace on July 26, 2007 at 6:46 PM
I am a big supporter of suicide bombings. I just wish they would all go do it, all at once, in one place. Hum, let’s see where? I got it MECCA!
TheSitRep on July 26, 2007 at 10:28 PM
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