Outrage: Federal Judge Blames California for Its Illegal Immigration Problem
posted at 10:05 am on July 24, 2007 by Patterico
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Well, not in so many words — but he still does. You’ll see what I mean.
A couple of liberal federal judges have control of California’s prison system, and they’re considering a plan that could release thousands of prisoners upon society all at once:
Federal judges who have been trying for more than a decade to improve medical care in California’s overcrowded prisons called Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger’s latest plans insufficient and cleared the way Monday for a three-judge panel to cap the state’s prison population.
The rare move has the potential to trigger the release of inmates, though experts say less drastic measures also might appease the judges, who years ago found medical and mental care in California’s 33 prisons unconstitutional.
I love this oh-so-ironic line penned by Judge Lawrence Karlton:
“The court wishes to observe again that overcrowding is the state’s problem, and in the interim, the court again urges the state to find its own solution to the crisis,” he wrote.
Why is it ironic? Because it’s the federal government’s fault that my state of California is in this mess to begin with. Yet the judge is right: somehow, it’s still our problem.
How is it the federal government’s fault? I’m so glad you asked.
You see, were it not for the thousands of illegals that California is paying to incarcerate in state prison — illegals that the federal government should be keeping out and deporting — we wouldn’t have the overcrowding problem we have. We’d be well within safe and reasonable capacity for the prisons.
Here’s how the math works. Let’s look at a revealing passage from Judge Karlton’s opinion yesterday. Skim it if you have to; it’s deadly dull. Don’t worry, I’ll summarize it after the block quote:
Defendants plan to add 12,000 prison “in-fill” beds by 2009. . . . It is not at all clear, however, that an additional 12,000 beds, even if timely completed, will alleviate the population crisis. As noted above, in June 2004 the independent panel on corrections found that a male inmate population of approximately 141,000 exceeded by 4,000 the “safe and reasonable” capacity of the California prison system . . . The male prison population projected for March 2009 is over 162,000 inmates and exceeds the population analyzed in the 2004 report by approximately 21,000 inmates, or 9,000 more inmates than new beds planned.
This is a long-winded and judicial way of saying that in 2009, there will be 13,000 too many male inmates in California’s state prisons.
But here’s the thing. The Washington Post says: “More than 10 percent of California’s prison population is in the United States illegally.” Calculating 10% is easy math; even an English major like me can do it. You chop off the last zero and you’re done. So: more than 10% of 162,000 (the number of male inmates projected in 2009) is more than 16,200.
So in 2009, there will be 13,000 too many male inmates . . . and more than 16,000 illegal male inmates.
Do the math. If none of those illegals were imprisoned in California, we’d be within the “safe and reasonable” capacity of the system by about 3,000 inmates.
But the state can’t monitor the border. That’s a federal function. The state can’t deport illegals. That’s a federal function.
Why, if the people of my state of California even try to restrict benefits to illegals, a la Proposition 187, some federal judge will tell us that we’re stepping on exclusively federal domain.
Meanwhile, illegals overrun our society, including our prison system, and another federal judge tells us that “overcrowding is the state’s problem.”
Are you getting the irony yet?
It’s like one cop cuffing your hands behind your back, and his partner slapping you around because you won’t raise your hands above your head.
Irony.
Or, I would call it, a pure outrage.
P.S. Where did I get this analysis? Why, from the L.A. Times, of course!
I’m kidding! Jeez, calm down. I hope I didn’t cause anybody to stroke out.
No, of course, despite the fact that illegal immigration is a huge and obvious factor in our prison overpopulation problem, the L.A. Times doesn’t breathe a word of it. Never will.
You’ll have to come here for that. (Or to my blog, where this item was originally posted.)
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Listen,,, Listen…..
That the sound of Michelle’s head exploding…
Well, I guess thats the liberals answer to the border
EricPWJohnson on July 24, 2007 at 10:16 AM
I heard a clip on the news that said the state plan to build more prisons to relieve overcrowding would only increase the problem. What the hell does that mean?
Also, this year the state tried to relieve overcrowding by housing prisoners out of state but this was challenged in court by among others the correctional officer union.
Blake on July 24, 2007 at 10:19 AM
Patterico
So you are from California eh? SoCal or NorCal?
doriangrey on July 24, 2007 at 10:19 AM
SoCal.
Originally from Texas.
Patterico on July 24, 2007 at 10:27 AM
When the fence gets built, should we put California on the other side of it?
Connie on July 24, 2007 at 10:29 AM
The answer is easy:
-if you commit a felony, you lose your right to government funded medical care.
They -or their families or friends- have to pay for it.
Private organizations (churchs, etc.) can volunteer free care for uncovered inmates.
Otherwise, it’s a hard and necessary lesson:
you shouldn’t have committed that felony.
profitsbeard on July 24, 2007 at 10:35 AM
Isn’t part of the problem that California cities act as “safe havens” and don’t turn illegals over to INS? If the did so would that alleviate part of the problem? They’ve made their bed, just as they are doing so here in Seattle.
Patrick H on July 24, 2007 at 10:38 AM
Hmmmm, the Feds could authorize and even induce (by threatening the withholding of funds)the states to enforce immigration law and even deport.
Why isn’t that happening?
Speakup on July 24, 2007 at 10:42 AM
There are sanctuary cities within CA that snub their nose at Federal Law, so therefore, the State does bear some of the responsibility for the problem!
Pam on July 24, 2007 at 10:44 AM
California’s secession from the union is justifiable at this point. The Federal government has failed to protect that state from the invasion of a hostile, foreign power. Californians should stop filling out their 1040s and the legislature should draft plans to return to their former status as a separate country, viz. the California Republic. Don’t get me wrong. I am not advocating a armed insurrection — more of a civil disobedience. Besides. What’s the Federal government going to do? Put all the citizens in jail? What a laugh. They can’t even house the illegals in California. At best, California could then begin to solve it problems on its own. At worst, the Feds would send in the military — which could maybe then be turned by the populace and used to drive-out the illegals.
Yeah, yeah, okay… so it’s a bad idea.
CyberCipher on July 24, 2007 at 10:45 AM
Patterico on July 24, 2007 at 10:27 AM
L.A or San Diego?
doriangrey on July 24, 2007 at 10:46 AM
I’d happily pay for bus tickets to send those 16,000 to, say, Guatemala. Or Venezuela, even.
[good to see your reports at HotAir, Patterico.]
Claire on July 24, 2007 at 10:53 AM
Glad I don’t live in the People’s Republic of California, whole place seems to be a conglomeration of kooks, with a few sane people along for the ride.
Bad Candy on July 24, 2007 at 10:53 AM
Lighten up a little. These guys are jusy doing the prison time Americans are too lazy to do…
repvoter on July 24, 2007 at 10:54 AM
California is a flood state, so inundated that unless the Feds step in or the lawful residents become incredibly outraged cannot regain her lost sovereignty on her own.
Used to be the Southwest was threatened, now all of the USA.
Speakup on July 24, 2007 at 11:00 AM
Bad Candy on July 24, 2007 at 10:53 AM
I am in California (San Diego, InSane Diego as we often refer to it)and I can tell you it is one hell of a bumpy ride, Oh and BTW there are more than just a few sane people here, we just dont live in L.A or San Frensicko…
doriangrey on July 24, 2007 at 11:01 AM
We’re a great example of a state controlled by a democratic senate and assembly. If your senators were Boxer and Feinstein your state would be a sh!t hole too.
repvoter on July 24, 2007 at 11:01 AM
in california, we had the military, until the liberals and the feds started closing bases.
pk on July 24, 2007 at 11:01 AM
Born and raised in SD. Moved to NorCal 17 years ago. I went back in 98 as I had tickets for game 5 of the world series but the Pads got swept. I haven’t been back since.
repvoter on July 24, 2007 at 11:09 AM
Cyber-cipher has an interesting solution. Unfortunately, northern cal isn’t as far gone as we are here in so cal and i don’t think that it would go over too well, considering that we earn a huge amount of money for the feds.
Well, passive-aggressives who are also liberal, (which, as you know is a mental disorder), tend to blame the victim. When confronted with this sticky detail the p-a’s will then play the victim and act as if the federal gov’t, in this case is just overwhelmed by it’s duties, so lay off!!!
This is enough to make my head explode, i think I’ll move on to a ‘happy’ topic, like…hmmmm………………………
Christine on July 24, 2007 at 11:13 AM
repvoter on July 24, 2007 at 11:09 AM
Hmmm, not sure whether to offer you my condolences or not, depends where in NorCal you live I guess. There are some really great towns up there once you get 30 or 40 miles east of the coast.
doriangrey on July 24, 2007 at 11:14 AM
San Diego here as well, dorian….and I believe you meant SmelLA.
PatrickS on July 24, 2007 at 11:15 AM
PatrickS on July 24, 2007 at 11:15 AM
Doh…Yes, yes indeed I did…
doriangrey on July 24, 2007 at 11:18 AM
California does indeed have very serious problems with illegal immigration. But I think one reason why so many “Blue State” politicians “embrace the problem” (instead of properly SOLVING the problem) is because illegal immigration caused the GOP to lose 9 House seats in the year 2000.
Let us be honest here. The American Left Wing know what is going on in our country. They are just exploiting it.
ColtsFan on July 24, 2007 at 11:34 AM
It is not the Feds problem, it is the States problem. You have three of the most influential politicos representing you. Boxer, Feinstein, Pelosi, they can fix the probem if they are so inclined, but they won’t. They would rather garner a few hispanic votes, and let the State sink. The problem is…California elected the wrong senators, now live with it.
right2bright on July 24, 2007 at 11:40 AM
I had read that Mexifornia was being threatened with the withholding of federal funds due to many of the cities claiming they were sanctuary for the illegals. Has anyone heard anymore on this? Or is it another empty threat? I’m in the Redwood City area of nor cal and from San Francisco down to San Jose, you won’t see ANY illegals being rounded up.
mimi1220 on July 24, 2007 at 11:41 AM
A major part of the problem is the preposterous position of the President on this issue (pardon the alliteration). I think we should build a giant catapult (a-la Monty Pyton) and catapult illegal immigrant felons onto the grounds of his Crawford Ranch. The ones that don’t make it, he’ll have to clean up. The ones that do can run rampant and commit their felonies on his property, for all I care. Then maybe he’ll start to get the message that there are grostesque costs to be bourne by illegal and unrestrained immigration.
urbancenturion on July 24, 2007 at 11:43 AM
I live in LA and I hate it. I was born and raised here, to boot. We’re used to threats of criminals being let loose because of “overcrowding” due to Sheriff Baca’s (yes THAT Baca) plea to fund the prisons. He always threatens us by saying he’ll let them go early if we don’t pay him more tax money. So more money goes to the prisons, it’s not enough, and the “non violent” offenders are let out.
Good thing we’re allowed concealed carry in LA…Oh, wait. No we’re not. /sarc
wherestherum on July 24, 2007 at 11:46 AM
Oh don’t fret Californians! We Texans will soon be in the same boat and we’ll all go down together.
FireFly on July 24, 2007 at 11:50 AM
FireFly on July 24, 2007 at 11:50 AM
Well the one bright side to this whole mess is that us Californians, like ya’ll in Texas pretty much have the same back up plan. When the going really gets rough, we’re going to start cracking open a shit load of beers, and then all bets are off.
doriangrey on July 24, 2007 at 12:01 PM
FireFly: Don’t say that. I’m moving out of CA at year end, back home to TX. At least TX has conceal and carry!!!
mimi1220 on July 24, 2007 at 12:01 PM
FireFly on July 24, 2007 at 11:50 AM
Well the one bright side to this whole mess is that us Californians, like ya’ll in Texas pretty much have the same back up plan. When the going really gets rough, we’re going to start cracking open a $hit load of beers, and then all bets are off.
doriangrey on July 24, 2007 at 12:02 PM
Every time I hear this kind of thing it is like a rusty bayonet twisting in my kidney. What is wrong with these people. Illegal immigration is an unmitigated disaster that is plain to see. Why in the world are so many Americans sucked like a moth to flame to encourage illegal immigration? Its like “jackass” on MTV
saiga on July 24, 2007 at 12:07 PM
Yes, but we Texans are better armed.
saiga on July 24, 2007 at 12:09 PM
Oh yes, we do, as long as it STAYS concealed. God help you if you try to pull it out and use it. Then your in trouble.
Well I’ll welcome you back anyway. We need all the help we can get. We’re being invaded by libs from both coasts, each bringing their own “brand” of “progressiveness”. Mix them together and……. well….you get the idea.
FireFly on July 24, 2007 at 12:18 PM
saiga on July 24, 2007 at 12:09 PM
I wouldn’t bet on that one if I were you. A couple of big cities like L.A and San Fransicko may have decided to play that PC gun free crap but pretty much the rest of California remembers and honors our wild west gold rush past. Once you get 30 or 40 miles inland we’re pretty much armed to the teeth.
doriangrey on July 24, 2007 at 12:19 PM
I’ll bring several kegs of Shiner Bock. They should last a good 45 min before refills are needed.
FireFly on July 24, 2007 at 12:23 PM
President Bush himself insists on living in a secure, fenced Crawford, Texas ranch.
Why can’t the rest of America insist on having the same border security as Bush?
Isn’t he supposed to represent the best interests of the people?
ColtsFan on July 24, 2007 at 12:26 PM
FireFly on July 24, 2007 at 12:23 PM
Sounds like a good start…
doriangrey on July 24, 2007 at 12:27 PM
This state is F.U.B.A.R.
I’m gettin’ the hell outta here.
Can we start a thread on nice places for ex-Kalifornians to move to?
infidel4life on July 24, 2007 at 12:31 PM
saiga on July 24, 2007 at 12:36 PM
infidel4life on July 24, 2007 at 12:31 PM
Meh…You’re not going any where, the People Republic of California is a police/prison state and you know they aren’t going to issue you papers to leave the state.
doriangrey on July 24, 2007 at 12:36 PM
Wrong tab
saiga on July 24, 2007 at 12:37 PM
It’s like one cop cuffing your hands behind your back, and his partner slapping you around because you won’t raise your hands above your head.
ZING!
that one is deep and i dont think its playable. well done, counselor.
Mike D. on July 24, 2007 at 12:37 PM
saiga on July 24, 2007 at 12:36 PM
Heh heh yea, well we pretty much trade em like Poke’ mon cards out here in the boonies…
doriangrey on July 24, 2007 at 12:38 PM
They haven’t banned shotguns. That’s all you need….
PRCalDude on July 24, 2007 at 12:41 PM
My brother had a couple of illegal immigrants try to buy handguns, and my brother went by the book and declined them after they paid a background check deposit. They raised a stink because he kept the deposit, but the autorities backed him up.
saiga on July 24, 2007 at 12:43 PM
PRCalDude on July 24, 2007 at 12:41 PM
In a big city where everything is close quarters. Since I live out in the boonies where things are just a tad bit farther apart a shotgun is pretty much only good for shooting quail or Pheasant.
doriangrey on July 24, 2007 at 12:45 PM
saiga on July 24, 2007 at 12:43 PM
Heh heh good for him…
doriangrey on July 24, 2007 at 12:46 PM
If you shoot anyone that’s further than close quarters, you’re going to jail anyway.
PRCalDude on July 24, 2007 at 12:47 PM
Buckshot with the plug out can be effective, but longer range and bigger magazines have their advantages. Here in Texas there are lots of hogs. When a big group steps out, they scatter after the first shot. A Russian assalt rifle with an open sight lets you stay with them a little longer.
saiga on July 24, 2007 at 12:47 PM
Take me hog hunting. I’ll just run down to the store, buy a bolt action 30-06 and a scope.
PRCalDude on July 24, 2007 at 12:50 PM
PRCalDude on July 24, 2007 at 12:47 PM
Depends on how many times they shot at you first. Remember, never bring a banana to a gun fight. Besides I live in a part of California where people, the law included, still take property rights very seriously.
doriangrey on July 24, 2007 at 12:53 PM
Thats what my brother prefers. As many hogs as I have on my place though, to only get one out of a big group is opportunity lost. I have been trying to thin those d#%n things out for years. I could run for mayor in the small ethnic town next to my property because of all the hogs I have donated to the local Jubilie Church congregation.
They told me years ago they would take all I good get, and I have been trying for years to prove them wrong with no luck.
saiga on July 24, 2007 at 12:56 PM
True. If they shoot at you first, then all bets are off. I consider that scenario unlikely though. In the city, you need the ballistic superiority of a good shotgun in close quarters.
PRCalDude on July 24, 2007 at 12:56 PM
PRCalDude on July 24, 2007 at 12:56 PM
Don’t live in a city thank god, I escaped to the countryside 7 years ago, cant stand going back down to the flat land if I don’t absolutely have to.
doriangrey on July 24, 2007 at 1:06 PM
The irony of a post complaining about illegal immigration by a guy who defends the convictions of BP agents who shot at an illegal drug dealer who most likely brandished a gun while fleeing.
Tim Burton on July 24, 2007 at 1:33 PM
I noticed that someone asked, and didn’t see if Patrick answered. He’s a deputy DA in Los Angeles.
I think people have gone overboard on this one, and I say that while disagreeing with Patrick on some points of the Ramos/Compean affair. Read his blog regularly, and you’ll see that he holds himself to a high standard of integrity. You cannot fault him for taking the side of the law in a case of law. He admits to serious flaws in Sutton’s side of the case, but views the bottom line as a matter of two agents who made mistakes during/following an incident.
Trust me, nobody is more opposed to illegal immigration than Patrick, nor angered by the federal government’s utter failure to act in accordance with their only mandate, the Constitution. During the last two years, only Patterico’s Pontifications and WND bothered to write on cases of illegals killing citizens here.
Freelancer on July 24, 2007 at 2:59 PM
One of reasons California does not have enough Prison beds is because former Governor Gray Davis gave the Correctional Officers a huge pay increase. They start out at %80,000 a year (not including overtime)and get a 90% retirement at age 55. It is total insanity.
Gray Davis bought every state employee union vote in his attempt to keep from being thrown out of office and left the taxpayers with outrageous pay and benefits that will eventually bankrupt our state.
That is why the Terminator is trying to house them in other states to save money and we have no money for Prisons.
ScottyDog on July 24, 2007 at 3:11 PM
Agreed – and it applies to anyone who is an outspoken opponent of illegal immigration while defending the convictions against Ramos and Compean.
Their cases could have been dealt with administratively, with them being fired or suspended as appropriate, or some small criminal sanctions. Instead, Sutton throws the book at them, misapplies the law regarding the use of guns during felonies, and gets the maximum sentence against both of them. It takes not a rocket scientist to figure out the chilling effect that will have on other border patrol agents who would otherwise do their jobs vigorously – or the encouraging effect it will have on drug runners and other illegal border crossers.
Irony indeed.
thirteen28 on July 24, 2007 at 3:16 PM
I urge you to visit the Local 2544 Border Patrol Website and see just how badly it has effected morale with the guys working at the border.
Chief David Aguilar, their Chief was voted down with a *unanimous* no confidence vote by the rank and file. They have even given him a nickname; Chief David “Hollywood” Aguilar. They have BP T Shirts for sale with the phrase “To Protect and Serve Time” and refer to Johnny Sutton as SATAN.
In addition, they are demanding that Chertoff step down or be replaced with a law enforcement professional because he has been advocating Amnesty in public speeches.
Here is a short except that will give you the idea:
“6-30-07 “But Mr. Chertoff warned ‘you will continue to see heart-wrenching examples of families being pulled apart’ as he enforces existing laws.” Washington Times”
“Can someone explain to this guy that we’re a “law enforcement” agency. As with any “law enforcement” agency, there are unfortunate examples of people being put in jail, and people being “pulled apart” from their families because they have chosen to break the law.”
As a retired LE myself, I have never seen morale for a LE agency as bad as at the Border Patrol. Tyranny comes to mind.
No wonder BP are afraid to enforce the rule of law with Chertoff,
ScottyDog on July 24, 2007 at 3:45 PM
(sorry for the double post)page refreshed for some reason
I urge you to visit the Local 2544 Border Patrol Website and see just how badly it has effected morale with the guys working at the border.
Chief David Aguilar, their Chief was voted down with a *unanimous* no confidence vote by the rank and file. They have even given him a nickname; Chief David “Hollywood” Aguilar. They have BP T Shirts for sale with the phrase “To Protect and Serve Time” and refer to Johnny Sutton as SATAN.
In addition, they are demanding that Chertoff step down or be replaced with a law enforcement professional because he has been advocating Amnesty in public speeches.
Here is a short except that will give you the idea:
“6-30-07 “But Mr. Chertoff warned ‘you will continue to see heart-wrenching examples of families being pulled apart’ as he enforces existing laws.” Washington Times”
“Can someone explain to this guy that we’re a “law enforcement” agency. As with any “law enforcement” agency, there are unfortunate examples of people being put in jail, and people being “pulled apart” from their families because they have chosen to break the law.”
As a retired LE myself, I have never seen morale for a LE agency as bad as at the Border Patrol. Tyranny comes to mind.
No wonder BP are afraid to enforce the rule of law with Chertoff, David “Hollywood” Aguilar, and Satan at the reigns.
ScottyDog on July 24, 2007 at 3:47 PM
California businesses which exploit illegal labor, and the city government officials who are in their pockets, must bear some of the blame for this problem.
People think that a fence is gonna solve all this, but the main problem is not at the border.
sandberg on July 24, 2007 at 4:07 PM
From the studies I have seen the illegal immigrant population in the jails and prisons is well over 10%. Maybe closer to 20%. we’d really free up some beds in the prisons if we could get the feds to deport these criminals. That is the key first step in controlling our borders.
Snidely Whiplash on July 24, 2007 at 4:17 PM
While your comments about Gray Davis are spot on, your salary figures are wrong according to the information I could find (2006 article in the San Diego Union Tribune). It put the starting salary at $40K, average base pay at $57K. This doesn’t include overtime and benefits, so the actual pay is higher than these figures, but too variable to really quantify. Davis was such a sell-out to the unions.
Here’s the article I got the numbers from:
Snidely Whiplash on July 24, 2007 at 4:33 PM
Let’s try the link again:
San Diego Trib article.
Snidely Whiplash on July 24, 2007 at 4:34 PM
Texas kicks a$$!
Harpoon on July 24, 2007 at 5:06 PM
North Carolina, spent my whole life in SoCal, and the last 3 years hear. It is one great state.
right2bright on July 24, 2007 at 5:40 PM
Snidely Whiplash on July 24, 2007 at 4:34 PM
I did not follow your link but I can give you the one at the California Department of Corrections. They used to have a pay and benefit chart but it has been taken down. Probably because taxpayers were shocked that someone could get paid better than a doctor with a high school diploma.
There is now a pdf which does not show all the extra pay they get for working shift work, pay bonus for being physically fit, qualifying at the gun range, Spanish language bonus and extra pay for having college education. I made a mistake, they can retire at 90% of their top year salary at age 50. Approx 4,000 a month plus cost of living plus free health care for the rest of their life
BTW- There is unlimited overtime for any correctional officer. I have a friend that makes well over 125K a year just by working one shift every other weekend.
Starting Pay without incentives- $3,774.00
Top step after 5 years no incentives- $6,743.00=$80,916.00
Or how about Correctional Specialist (Glorified Correctional Officer) just has some college
$7,772.00 not including incentives=$93,264
You have to get the pay scales in the mail now but you just have to see what Sergeants, Lieutenants and Captains earn. Well north of $120,000 a year and they do not have to have an MBA.
I am retired LE and worked in the state prison system for a short time.
I am disgusted the money these people are taking down compared to the private sector. If any one here can tell me why a prison guard deserves higher pay than someone who goes to college for 12 years, have at it.
The California unions are bankrupting our state. These wage scales cannot continue without being adjusted because a 90% retirement for the employees is unsustainable over the long term. It is a pyramid scheme. Taxes will have to be raised so high their will be a back lash at the polls.
Want another example, California Highway Patrol is the highest paid traffic cops in the country starting at $115,000 a year plus endless bonuses and benefits. They claim you only make $90,000 a year on the website but they leave out the incentives, overtime and mandatory court time reimbursement. Believe me, I know CHP patrolman that earn $125,000 without special assignments and days off. Again, they can retire at 90% at age 50.
It would be a sad joke if it were not so obscene.
ScottyDog on July 24, 2007 at 5:42 PM
IS THERE A LAWYER IN THE HOUSE???? I have a question about the new ID cards being given to the illegals in NEW HAVEN, CONN..Will I be able to file a civil law suit against the chucklehead Mayor who is basicly overriding US laws and saying in a way come live here..Then one of his friends ends up raping, murdering, DUI and killing american citizens etc…Most politicans are smart enough not to stick their neck out like this guy..Most just look away and do absolutely nothing about the illegals. Which is at least going to leave them out of my civil law suit,,,YES OR NO..Do I have a case or not,and if I do at least we can spread the word so other sanctuary mayors don’t start to follow suit..
Legions on July 24, 2007 at 6:11 PM
California? A problem? Gee, I hadn’t noticed! BWahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
DfDeportation on July 24, 2007 at 10:51 PM
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