Quotes of the day

posted at 10:20 pm on July 22, 2007 by Allahpundit

“Infantrymen, on the other hand, learn that the military’s basic job is to break the enemy’s will by killing him, or threatening to. Looking at their training from the inside, infantrymen conclude that their job hasn’t fundamentally changed since the days when naked men threw spears at one another to protect their families. It’s an ancient role, and they’re proud of it.

But these days, that part of the job apparently makes America’s civilians uneasy. World War II headlines celebrated accomplished military killers and called them heroes. Second Lt. Audie Murphy mowed down dozens of attacking German soldiers, won the Medal of Honor and went on to become a movie star. Today, U.S. soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan who win medals for successfully doing their jobs while obeying the laws of war might get local coverage. But the brightest national spotlight is reserved for killers who are war criminals, such as the alleged perpetrators of the Haditha massacre, or heroes who are victims, such as prisoners of war. American civilians no longer seem comfortable labeling a soldier as both a killer and a hero.

In fact, they’re not particularly comfortable with the military in general…

‘The military is at war, but the country is not,’ warns University of Maryland sociologist David Segal. ‘And the military resents that.’”

*

“KILLITARY: Are America’s Armed Forces Creating Serial Killers and Mass Murderers?”


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sez who?

bloggless on July 22, 2007 at 10:30 PM

I see, now. They are not fooling anyone. Libs are destroying the country.

bloggless on July 22, 2007 at 10:35 PM

But these days, that part of the job apparently makes America’s civilians uneasy.

I object to that line. It makes the press uneasy.

I don’t mean to be cruel, but I lay much of the blame at President Bush’s door. We have tried to have a policy of – the civilian population will not feel any of the effects of the war – and we have succeeded. The civilian population, outside of the troop families, friends, and educated political types, etc, don’t have the same visceral investment that comes with that level of involvement.

The same is true with the decisions not to report the deaths of the enemies. The American psyche has two heroes: the champion or the underdog, ie you love the Yankees or whoever are playing against the Yankees that day. Without readily accessible metrics, there is no champion, no underdog, no score, no daily/weekly victories for the civilian populace to latch on to.

Spirit of 1776 on July 22, 2007 at 10:41 PM

There are no winners/losers, no first/second/last prizes/scores, there’s no right/wrong. There is no war/peace, only peace.

We’re rapidly moving toward the already sissified rest of the world.

In the meanwhile, the enemy rejoices.

Entelechy on July 22, 2007 at 10:48 PM

KILLITARY: Are America’s Armed Forces Creating Serial Killers and Mass Murderers?”

Well, that’s just plain bullcrap!! I know my father who was in WWII in the infantry. My father and the other Veterans I have listened to, do not glory in taking a life of an enemy. It’s not funny when a soldier cries but he does and he mourns deeply for a fallen brothers and sisters in arms. Until you have witness first hand the horrors of the battlefield, you can NOT comprehend what it is to be a soldier. To voluntarily put your life on the line for your country, to protect the rights of people that protest what you are doing, these men and women are the heros.

ChrisIansNana on July 22, 2007 at 10:50 PM

I went and read the crap. What they don’t give are correct percentages. For example:

Kilner’s paper discussed how the military’s training changed drastically after World War II. A survey determined that only 25% of all soldiers during the war actually fired their weapons. The main reason cited was that soldiers were more afraid to kill another human being than to be killed.

I would say that is accurate, if put in the context that only 25% of the army in World War 2 were actual combat troops and the other 75% were support troops.

I’m not going to look up the exact statistics, but most studies I’ve seen show that the percentage of crime in the military, or commited by people that have been in the armed forces is much lower than when compared to the rest of the general population.

The military is just in the spotlight and gets worse press. Imagine that.

Tennessee Dave on July 22, 2007 at 10:52 PM

I fear that, by the time the War on Terror (or whatever we end up calling it) is over, we will all have become soldiers, and we’ll look back at the way our political class and popular culture treated the military in the early years of the new milennium with shame. A free and peace-loving society should always be eager to show respect and appreciation for its warriors, or else, in the end, all of its citizens will have no choice but to become warriors.

Doctor Zero on July 22, 2007 at 10:56 PM

I’m not going to look up the exact statistics, but most studies I’ve seen show that the percentage of crime in the military, or commited by people that have been in the armed forces is much lower than when compared to the rest of the general population.

Compare that to say the percentage of Professional Atheletes and Rap Artist who are criminal then we can talk

William Amos on July 22, 2007 at 11:03 PM

As for the second ‘article’, which I just read, that’s absurd in my opinion. The soldier must be an efficient killing machine, but only in the context of authority given by orders. The idea of soldiers going on shooting sprees when they come home is, again I say, absurd. Given a choice for neighbors, I’ll take veterans any day of the week. Well, single women my age, then veterans, I suppose truth be told.

Col. Dave Grossman wrote an excellent book called, On Killing: The Psychological Cost of Learning to Kill in War and Society. I’ve had read it and have had the pleasure of hearing him speak on it as well, I would recommend it to anyone interested.

Spirit of 1776 on July 22, 2007 at 11:14 PM

“The military resents that.”

The “military” resents nothing.

The members may be disgusted …with the lack of spine shown by some at home… but do not resent it.

They see this failure of some of their neighbors’ will as naive.

They may despise it.

But resentment is for the puny.

Like the media.

profitsbeard on July 22, 2007 at 11:22 PM

And yet the left is silent on their heroes even when they act like the nazis

From BBC NEWS. Chavez is creating “Battalions” of voters to force one party rule

William Amos on July 22, 2007 at 11:25 PM

‘The military is at war, but the country is not,’

The half of the country on the left side of the aisle is at war with our own military.

infidel4life on July 22, 2007 at 11:29 PM

The media puts out the concept, the NEA dominated teaching structure brings it into the classroom.
Americans stop reading papers, turn off the TV. Blog readership is up.
Home schooling is on the rise.
The question: Is this happening fast enough to off-set the destruction caused by propaganda?
Not sure.

naliaka on July 22, 2007 at 11:30 PM

And yet again another story about real abuses. And the Media mostly falls silent

UN Investigates Morrocan UN troops who allegidly raped hundreds of underaged girls

William Amos on July 22, 2007 at 11:33 PM

This reminds me of Col. Jessup in A Few Good Men:

“You can’t handle the truth! Son, we live in a world that has walls. And those walls have to be guarded by men with guns. Who’s gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinberg? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Santiago and you curse the Marines. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know: that Santiago’s death, while tragic, probably saved lives. And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives…You don’t want the truth. Because deep down, in places you don’t talk about at parties, you want me on that wall. You need me on that wall.

We use words like honor, code, loyalty…we use these words as the backbone to a life spent defending something. You use ‘em as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom I provide, then questions the manner in which I provide it! I’d rather you just said thank you and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon and stand a post. Either way, I don’t give a damn what you think you’re entitled to!”

Strangely enough, this Hollyweird stuff probably had a good play in cultivating a certain angst against the military (on the liberal mind that is).

synycalwon on July 22, 2007 at 11:40 PM

“American civilians no longer seem comfortable labeling a soldier as both a killer and a hero.”

Same ol’ same ol’. The media define it the way they want and the way the vast majority in the media want it is demonization and in this case Kristin Henderson use the art of projection. I don’t define soldiers fighting in wars as killers any more than I define a policeman, doing his duty in stopping a murderer from completing an act, as a killer.

I want to see our heroes, but the journalists won’t show them to me and won’t tell me about them. It is they who aren’t comfortable with it, not me. Six years, two wars. Have they told us about any heroes, besides those brave troops who saved a bunch of journalists at a Baghdad hotel from dying via three truck bombs by killing the bastards?

Yeah, right. I didn’t think so. They’re heroes when it suits ‘em; when it saves their sorry asses. Any other time, the troops can just their “Franklin Foer” sh*t.

If they would bother looking at the multitude of press releases at MNF-I, they would see the detainee to killed rate ranges from 10-1 to 20-1. They’d see troops sent to Iraq to defend our national security interests running their asses off to foster reconciliation and defend Iraqis from monsters. They’d read about the hard work done every day so that these scum-sucking bottom dwelling journalists can alternately ignore and criticize or find fault with from their safe working locations, but most certainly never forget to keep a stripped-of-context count of, as though our nation’s finest stand around doing nothing more than wait to be killed.

It’s a disconnect alright.

Dusty on July 22, 2007 at 11:57 PM

When asked if he considered something like the Peace Corps, he shakes his head no. “I’m a person of action, not words.”

Well this fellow has his head screwed on straight. As far as enlistment numbers being low, who wants to join a military that is neutered by it’s own government. I mean come on…I would not want to join a military that is sent into a war and not allowed to win it!

boomer on July 23, 2007 at 12:01 AM

It is not America’s civilians that are uneasy about our military killing our enemies. It is our leaders and opinion elite that are uneasy.

unseen on July 23, 2007 at 12:14 AM

The Liberals have it down to a science and the press has it down to an art. They know how to spin things up or down, depending on the desired result and it affects everything. The enlistment numbers, mentioned by Boomer… The level of fear regarding global warming, as compared to that of global terrorism… Everything. Sometimes I wish there WAS an invasion of the states and an undeniable need for everyone, even Libs, to become invested, for real, not just as the wimps and wonks are today. I’d savor the opportunity to warm my feet in the bowels of traitors like Michael More, during winter battles and feed their flesh to my sled dogs and hounds. If only the Libs had some inkling of the point to which they’re pushing us to clobbering their carefree, careless, courageless arses…

Rugged Individual on July 23, 2007 at 12:44 AM

nobody put it better than Frank J.:

A successful war requires two major sacrifices from the American people: Some brave men and women must go overseas to risk their lives and those who stay home must refrain from being a bunch of whiny bitches. Apparently, one of those is asking far too much.

AdrianG on July 23, 2007 at 12:46 AM

I remember the crap that the MSM would come up with to “hint” that those of us who served in the Nam were crazy killing machines.

For many years after we returned, I would hear the newscaster say something like, “The murderer (thief, rapists, car jacker, etc), a Viet Nam Vet, blah, blah, blah. I would guess that this went on for at least 10 – 15 years afterwards.

BobK on July 23, 2007 at 6:00 AM

BobK is correct.

Have any of these alleged journalist considered what life would be like if there were no military to defend us? Instead, they tell us of their own paranoia and delusions.

Zorro on July 23, 2007 at 6:54 AM

…But these days, that part of the job apparently makes America’s civilians uneasy…

I, for one, have no problem whatsoever with our troops killing the enemy wherever we find him. I also believe in the concept of total war, where the enemy’s infrastructure is also fair game. Sherman did that to Georgia in the Civil War, then he swung north into the Carolinas. Far as I’m concerned, the woman who makes her factory-worker husband’s lunch is as fair a target as the war factory in which that man works.

The purpose of war is to kill the enemy and break his things. War should never be undertaken lightly or frivolously, but when we engage one we should do it swiftly, decisively, and on to victory. That’s how to reduce casualties, especially on our side.

The idea that servicemen and -women could become serial killers or mass murderers because of their training is pure nonsense. There’s a psychopathic and sexual component to serial murders, while not even hypnosis could turn someone against his deepest core values to ‘manufacture’ a mass murderer.

I’m sick of the MSM painting our veterans this way, mostly those from Vietnam. I was young while that war went on, and every VN vet I met in my life put the lie to the media storyline those men are crazed killers (my thanks to all you VN vets for serving–good job and well done!).

I’d love seeing the MSM ‘analyze’ how many reporters have gotten people killed because they let out news that put people in danger. Those reporters might as well have pulled the triggers themselves, and they weren’t American soldiers on a mission during war. If people’s lives are less a concern than a news scoop, then those reporters are as sick a other mass murderers.

Let’s see the MSM do a story on that for once.

Liam on July 23, 2007 at 7:03 AM

Mean while, Pol Pot and Saddam kill millions and once the MSM reports it, they forget about it. But give us a questionable incident involving our troops and they revel in it for months and blame every act of violence after that, on the incident. They report that if it weren’t for the incident, peace would rein for perpetuity.

csdeven on July 23, 2007 at 7:36 AM

And yes, thanks and God bless to all Vietnam vets, AND all our troops serving and who has served.

csdeven on July 23, 2007 at 7:38 AM

Regular, normal people from a free society that looks down it’s nose at military personnel as either naive or ignorant leave their comforts and freedom behind to serve their country. They submit to military authority after coming from a society that promotes distrust of leadership. Their parents and friends watch them leave with concern. They travel to the other side of the world mostly fresh out of Liberal leaning classrooms to live and survive the severe heat and violence that they wish to keep from back home.
After being taught to never fight or harm another, they are required to kill. They experience the death of comrades along with the slaughter of civilians by an enemy more vicious and sadistic than they even imagined. They must fight the lawless by the law and care for the captured when their own are brutally tortured with their broken disfigured bodies sent back home and ignored by all except those who raised and loved them.
Their countrymen who benefit from their sacrifice support the enemy while others betray them in the name of patriotism. Their sacrifice of youth, conscience and innocence in order to kill the enemy is turned against them by their country’s leaders and press to promote their own status. The attention and popularity that was once reserved for those who sacrificed for many is spent on the most selfish and narrow-minded our culture can produce.

Hening on July 23, 2007 at 7:59 AM

The MSM LIES because they are with our enemies in this war. They hate Bush so much, that they willingly act to support Al Qaeda.

They are Al Qaeda’s 5th Column inside America. This isn’t a fantasy, but comes from the communiques issuing from Zawahiri and bin Laden.

georgej on July 23, 2007 at 8:24 AM

In fact, they’re not particularly comfortable with the military in general…

This is obviously true of the media elite. And as the elite are inclined, they are trying to spread their vision to the common man. (Us)

The all volunteer military and shop till you drop domestic approach has created a natural wedge within our society. The lefties are trying to drive a wedge in there with articles like this and the Scott Thomas #hit piece.

It will be a long war. Who wins will depend on who fights.

TunaTalon on July 23, 2007 at 9:12 AM

‘The military is at war, but the country is not,’

So does he consider 9/11 an attack on our military? Whether these people want to admit it or not, this country is at war, both from within and without, for its very survival. Fortunately at this moment, I believe there are still enough left who truly love this country to save it.

Kowboy on July 23, 2007 at 11:33 AM

This is simple Juvenile Nature, really…

Immature, angst-ridden people who’ve never been required to grow up & be responsible resent those who remind them, verbally or visually (through actions), of their failings.

Miss_Anthrope on July 23, 2007 at 3:43 PM

I had to walk away after reading this. It’s like when Shrill said this is Bush’s war. Proving once again the agenda of the left. Which every day seems to be going even further left. Can we call them traitors yet?

PowWow on July 23, 2007 at 5:36 PM

If you teach a child that its only responsibility is to satisfy its own appetites, and maintain its own self-esteem, this is what you get.

People who refuse to face the reality that there are other people who hate us for evil reasons, who must be opposed and defeated. And since they are such nice people themselves, they can’t be blamed for others hating us, but someone must be blamed, so it’s those people who ARE willing to face and fight the enemy. It’s their fault for stirring a boiling pot that would have settled down if left alone.

Freelancer on July 23, 2007 at 6:19 PM