Attention, Harry Potter fans: Do not click this link; Update: Entire book now online?

posted at 10:36 am on July 19, 2007 by Allahpundit

Oooh, you’re just dying to click it, aren’t you?

The book’s been embargoed for sale until midnight Saturday morning, but the Times couldn’t wait so they found themselves a dealer willing to break its promise and sell them a copy early. Then they published their review — early. And naturally they included a (very general) spoiler.

They don’t give much away, but they do give some, and J.K. Rowling’s none too pleased. Very stupidly, the AFP’s story about her reaction repeats one of the tidbits from the review so fans are advised to skip that link too and rely on the blockquote here:

In a statement released through British publisher Bloomsbury, Rowling said: “I am staggered that some American newspapers have decided to publish purported spoilers in the form of reviews in complete disregard of the wishes of literally millions of readers, particularly children, who wanted to reach Harry’s final destination by themselves, in their own time.”

The link to the Times review is going to be sitting here all day, Potter fanatics. All day.

You’ll be happy to know, though, that it was indeed a rave.

Exit question: Did the Times act unethically?

Update: I won’t torture the Potterites any further by scrounging up the link, but apparently photos of every page in the book are now online. And using CSI-type “digital DNA” sleuthing, the publishers are determined to find out who’s responsible.

Update: Rowling’s publisher plans to sue Levy Home Entertainment and DeepDiscounts.com for breaking the embargo.

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I read the review yesterday when it was linked on Drudge… what’s the big deal? Where are the spoilers everyone’s knickers are in a twist about?

nosliwelyk on July 19, 2007 at 10:39 AM

That might be a better question for The Times’s Ethicsist. No wait..

Rich on July 19, 2007 at 10:39 AM

Whats harry potter?

lorien1973 on July 19, 2007 at 10:41 AM

Curse you Allah.
Must..not…click

SouthernDem on July 19, 2007 at 10:43 AM

Valdemort was the name of Harry Potter’s sled.

a4g on July 19, 2007 at 10:43 AM

lorien1973…that’s a real shaggy guy that fools around with clay !

DoctorDentons on July 19, 2007 at 10:44 AM

The New York Times and ethics don’t go together very well. I don’t care about Harry Potter, but this seems to be pretty heartless.

WisCon on July 19, 2007 at 10:46 AM

Y’know, when the NYT leaks stuff like national secrets, no one much cares. I’m glad they leaked Harry Potter stuff. At least now that they leaked something people actually CARE about, people might actually hold them accountable for it.

Heck, JK Rowling could probably buy the NYT with her pocket change and shut it down just for spite.

aero on July 19, 2007 at 10:47 AM

Exit question: Did the Times act unethically?

Doesn’t it always.

I think the mistake it made was in buying and reviewing the book before it’s to be released.

Though the review, in my opinion, didn’t give anything away that readers wouldn’t already guess. The spoiler Rowling mentions is one I really assumed would happen anyway as each book has gotten progressively darker.

Esthier on July 19, 2007 at 10:49 AM

Exit question: Did the Times act unethically?

Hmmm, Did the Times act unethically? Can anyone honestly use the words The Time and Ethical in the same sentence and not look utterly foolish?

doriangrey on July 19, 2007 at 10:50 AM

Anyone remember them making this much noise when they released the final volume of Stephen King’s “Dark Tower” series? I mean, I like the Harry Potter books as much as the next person, but why go through all this waste of cyberspace with spoilers? People are going to buy the book and make it an automatic #1 bestseller regardless of who knows what about the ending, so why bother with all this stuff?

pilamaye on July 19, 2007 at 10:50 AM

My fiancee is a Potterhead, and so I’ve been paying attention to where spoilers surface in order to help her avoid them. However, after reading that article, where is the spoiler? That several familiar people die? Everyone who has read the books is expecting that. While I hate the New York Trash as much as anyone here, I fail to see the “ethical conflict”.

MadisonConservative on July 19, 2007 at 10:51 AM

Whats harry potter?

lorien1973 on July 19, 2007 at 10:41 AM

Yeah right. My first year in college, my husband (boyfriend at the time) couldn’t even purchase the history textbook he needed because the publishing company decided to print Harry Potter books instead.

It’s a little difficult to escape it.

Esthier on July 19, 2007 at 10:52 AM

So, people are going to die, this is news? I thought the bigger spoilers included what “deathly Hallows” means.

Taleena on July 19, 2007 at 10:52 AM

Spoiler: Harry Potter is “Tommy”

Grafted on July 19, 2007 at 10:54 AM

Rowling needs to go backwards in time to fix it.

Attila (Pillage Idiot) on July 19, 2007 at 10:54 AM

This is finally it. The NYTimes has gone too far. They have no respect for their fellow man and they need to be shut down.

frankj on July 19, 2007 at 10:57 AM

Rave reviews for a bunch of dolts. They deserve their spoiler, and I don’t care who I offend by saying it.

JK Rowling is an empirically talented writer.

Too bad her Harry Potter is a waste of good trees. The books(AND YES I HAVE READ THEM AAALL TO THE POINT WHERE THEY MAKE ME SICK)increasingly harden. And from what I have read, this final one is the most cynical and dark yet.

Fine and well written for adults, but in the world we live in, no child should be fed such a cynical and pessimistic diet at the age they are target marketed to.

The first one was whimsical, the next ones are increasingly AGENDIZED toward a sick and HUMANIST WORLD view.

The jaws of the world will get my kids soon enough, I don;t have to offer them up on such a “harmless” (yeah!) altar as this one.

Grown ups>>>have your geeky Harry Potter parties. But when a public school teaches it in my neighborhood, they will have a FIGHT on their hands.

seejanemom on July 19, 2007 at 10:57 AM

Spoiler: Harry Potter leaves Hogwarts and moves in with a British Author, smoking peyote and making her very, very, very bloody rich.

Nethicus on July 19, 2007 at 10:58 AM

Big fat hairy deal. She’s the richest author in the history of the printed word. I think she’ll survive the faux pas.

Mindcrime on July 19, 2007 at 10:58 AM

J.K.Rowlings is “staggered” by the N.Y. Times’ lack of ethical standards?

WELCOME TO AMERICA, BABY!

pilamaye on July 19, 2007 at 10:58 AM

Oh, and thanks for all the spoiler warnings, AP.

frankj on July 19, 2007 at 10:59 AM

Exit question: Did the Times act unethically?

That’s a trick question. They didn’t act that way, they really are that way!

db on July 19, 2007 at 10:59 AM

Did the Times act unethically?

Of course.

But compared to their usual shenanigans? It’s practically a moment of honor for them. Publishing classified information and troop movements and anti-American propaganda is a daily thing for the sad old Grey Lady.

Harry Potter fans are going to have to get in the back of a very, very long line if they want to hold the print media accountable for this relatively minor bit of heartless stupidity.

Professor Blather on July 19, 2007 at 11:00 AM

Spoiler: Harry Potter is “Tommy”

Grafted on July 19, 2007 at 10:54 AM

At least they didn’t say whether his friend got deported or not.

WisCon on July 19, 2007 at 11:00 AM

Harry Potter is a Cylon.

Slublog on July 19, 2007 at 11:00 AM

Not Greystache! Noooooo!

James on July 19, 2007 at 11:01 AM

Harry Potter was a ghost the whole time.

frankj on July 19, 2007 at 11:01 AM

I’ve got a copy from the Internet. Took me 10 minutes to find it. As I thought, Karl Rove is the one to be blamed for the ending.

Ropera on July 19, 2007 at 11:01 AM

Harry Potter is really a Russian spy.

Slublog on July 19, 2007 at 11:01 AM

Spoiler: Harry Potter leaves Hogwarts and moves in with a British Author, smoking peyote and making her very, very, very bloody rich.

Nethicus

They become POTTERHEADS.

seejanemom on July 19, 2007 at 11:03 AM

At the end of the story, Pam Ewing wakes up only to realize it was just a bad dream ;^)

db on July 19, 2007 at 11:04 AM

seejanemom on July 19, 2007 at 10:57 AM

Seek help.

And now I’ll join the others and go back to ignoring you. Why don’t you go start a blog or something? Oh. Wait.

;)

Professor Blather on July 19, 2007 at 11:04 AM

I don’t understand why Potter-mania even exists, but I’m glad people read.

Spirit of 1776 on July 19, 2007 at 11:05 AM

She is SOooo loving all this HYPE.

The false sense of SHOCK! is absurd. That greedy old HAG lives for this.

chachingchachingchaching

May she bloody well rot.

seejanemom on July 19, 2007 at 11:05 AM

Exit answer: It’s a frikken book, fer cryin’ out loud!

locomotivebreath1901 on July 19, 2007 at 11:06 AM

Hey Blather….you got sucked into the Potter thing too? Sorry for ya. And sorry you don’t seem to have your own blog you are willing to admit a link to , so you are, sadly, the one who will be ignored.

seejanemom on July 19, 2007 at 11:07 AM

Harry Potter = Keyser Soze.

Slublog on July 19, 2007 at 11:08 AM

Whats harry potter?

lorien1973 on July 19, 2007 at 10:41 AM

Does that joke ever get old to you?

rho on July 19, 2007 at 11:08 AM

Ah, the New York Times ‘ethicist.’ Good times, good times:

The other end of the current spectrum of opinion on infidelity was indicated in a column by New York Times Magazine columnist Randy Cohen, aka “The Ethicist.” A woman with a sexually impaired husband wrote to Cohen about her adulterous affair. She admitted that her Roman Catholic faith told her it was wrong, but she wanted to know what “secular ethics” has to say. The Ethicist replied that while adultery is “dicey territory,” the woman had “entered the realm of don’t ask, don’t tell,” and anyway, “Few practitioners of any faith adhere to each of its dictates.”

Oh, and this, of course. No Dr.Laura, was that one.

AdrianG on July 19, 2007 at 11:08 AM

btw, i for one, don’t quite buy the outrage.

AdrianG on July 19, 2007 at 11:10 AM

Grown ups>>>have your geeky Harry Potter parties. But when a public school teaches it in my neighborhood, they will have a FIGHT on their hands.

seejanemom on July 19, 2007 at 10:57 AM

You really should learn to pick your battles.

And considering what I read in school, classic literature, my outlook on life was certainly no better. At the age these kids are reading Harry Potter, I was reading Oliver Twist. Harry Potter’s had it so very easy in comparison.

Esthier on July 19, 2007 at 11:11 AM

Harry Potter ends with Harry, Hermione, Ron, and Snape gathering around at the end and tell “You Might Be a Wizard If” Jokes.

Bad Candy on July 19, 2007 at 11:13 AM

I’m sure it was Scooter Libby who leaked the book to the times. Getting Fitzgerald on the phone pronto.

saltydogg14 on July 19, 2007 at 11:14 AM

Khomenei would’ve made a great Dumbledore.

AlexB on July 19, 2007 at 11:14 AM

NEWS FLASH!!!!!!!!!!!

Potter fans were shocked to find out that the Plot actualy comes to a conslusion in the LAST BOOK!

Film at 11…

Romeo13 on July 19, 2007 at 11:15 AM

Bad Candy on July 19, 2007 at 11:13 AM

shouldn’t those be… “Ya might be a muggle if..”

Romeo13 on July 19, 2007 at 11:16 AM

“wrinkled pagan?”

Ouch.

Funny too…heh.

Rightwingsparkle on July 19, 2007 at 11:17 AM

Harry Potter ends with Harry, Hermione, Ron, and Snape gathering around at the end and tell “You Might Be a Wizard If” Jokes.

Bad Candy on July 19, 2007 at 11:13 AM

You might be a wizard if your wand misfires before you finish casting that seduction spell.

Mindcrime on July 19, 2007 at 11:19 AM

I’ll bet JK Rowling said something derogatory about Fred! Thompson. And Fred!, who is all knowing, caused those deaths in her book through sheer will alone.

How ’bout it FrankJ?

Swinehound on July 19, 2007 at 11:19 AM

What a hoot. The Potter author plagiarized the story in the first place. Chickens come home to roost LOL.

Timber Wolf on July 19, 2007 at 11:20 AM

At the age these kids are reading Harry Potter, I was reading Oliver Twist. Harry Potter’s had it so very easy in comparison.

Esthier on July 19, 2007 at 11:11 AM

If a public school would even TEACH Dickens anymore, maybe I would pick my battles. But taken in the aggregate of what passes for “public education” anymore, the indoctrination comes in little “harmless” does.

Just go back to sleep, your kids will be fine when you wake up in twelve years. Right?

seejanemom on July 19, 2007 at 11:20 AM

that would be harmless “doses”.

seejanemom on July 19, 2007 at 11:21 AM

When do the Times act ethically???

congsan on July 19, 2007 at 11:22 AM

“wrinkled pagan?”

Ouch.

Funny too…heh.

Rightwingsparkle

See Professor Blather? Survey says they are ignoring YOU. Thanks RWS!

seejanemom on July 19, 2007 at 11:23 AM

Seejanemom seems to delight in assuming Rowling’s “pagan” status. I wonder how she’ll react to the Christ-parallels that are *splattered* across the last book.

Il Padrino on July 19, 2007 at 11:25 AM

Err…i admit, i’ve never read a Harry Potter book so maybe i missed it, but…what was the spoiler?

madne0 on July 19, 2007 at 11:25 AM

I read that Harry Potter got whacked in a Bloomfield diner by a guy in a “Members Only” jacket.

Mike Honcho on July 19, 2007 at 11:28 AM

If a public school would even TEACH Dickens anymore, maybe I would pick my battles. But taken in the aggregate of what passes for “public education” anymore, the indoctrination comes in little “harmless” does.

Just go back to sleep, your kids will be fine when you wake up in twelve years. Right?

seejanemom on July 19, 2007 at 11:20 AM

I don’t have kids just yet, and as I’ve just stated, my school DID teach Dickens and many other novels that were much more scarring than anything to come out of Harry Potter.

Seriously, calm down a bit.

Esthier on July 19, 2007 at 11:31 AM

Seejanemom seems to delight in assuming Rowling’s “pagan” status. I wonder how she’ll react to the Christ-parallels that are *splattered* across the last book.

Il Padrino

Um…she is a PROUD pagan. Seen any interviews with her?

And Yes, I have read Joseph Campbell too. DUH.

seejanemom on July 19, 2007 at 11:33 AM

Harry Potter Outed Valorie Plame.

Mazztek on July 19, 2007 at 11:34 AM

I don’t have kids just yet, and as I’ve just stated
Esthier

Well when you do, you can lecture me about “calming down”.

Until then, shut your pie hole about the state of the public school system in which I HAVE HAD THE SICKENING EXPERIENCE to teach.

;)

seejanemom on July 19, 2007 at 11:36 AM

I’d be offended if my child’s school abandoned truly great works of literature for this cheesy, pop culture trash.

Mike Honcho on July 19, 2007 at 11:36 AM

Matt Damon!

seejanemom on July 19, 2007 at 11:36 AM

Does that joke ever get old to you?

rho on July 19, 2007 at 11:08 AM

No :D

I feel that it lets me mock people who have to buy these books for their kids while I take baths in my disposable income :P

lorien1973 on July 19, 2007 at 11:37 AM

I’d be offended if my child’s school abandoned truly great works of literature for this cheesy, pop culture trash.

Mike Honcho

Well be VERY offended, because a SURPRISING NUMBER HAVE DONE JUST THAT.

>>>>>>>>>>>>
“At least the kids are reading”, they whine. How LAME. If your husband was addicted to PENTHOUSE FORUM would you use the SAME LAME “reason”?

seejanemom on July 19, 2007 at 11:39 AM

LOVE it, lorien1973….LOVE it!

seejanemom on July 19, 2007 at 11:40 AM

Really? And where in interviews has she ever, ever said that she’s a pagan? Cite.

As far as I’ve seen, all she’s said about her religious beliefs is that to reveal too many of them would give away the ending of the last book. And … they ain’t pagan.

Your thesis needs work. I give an F for style, but a C+ for deranged passion.

Il Padrino on July 19, 2007 at 11:42 AM

How is it the New York Times can write a review of a book they only received last evening? Someone stay yup all night and speed-read + write review of 200 + pages?

IntheNet on July 19, 2007 at 11:44 AM

Someone stay yup all night and speed-read + write review of 200 + pages?

I dated a girl a few years ago who was a school teacher and read the thing to her students. She got through the book in like 3 hours or something. It’s not like reading atlas shrugged or something.

lorien1973 on July 19, 2007 at 11:48 AM

Well when you do, you can lecture me about “calming down”.

Until then, shut your pie hole about the state of the public school system in which I HAVE HAD THE SICKENING EXPERIENCE to teach.

;)

seejanemom on July 19, 2007 at 11:36 AM

Shut my pie hole because I don’t have kids? So men should shut their pie holes about abortion since they can’t have babies, nonminorities should shut their pie holes about affirmative action because they’re not minorities, and nonsoldiers should shut their pie holes since they’re not over there at war?

Anecdotal evidence is not evidence of the whole system.

Your experience was bad. Too bad for you. But as an actual student (not too long ago), the people you seem to care about but don’t want to listen to I was subjected to literature far worse than Harry Potter in regards to cynicism.

And these are books which you WANT taught in schools. So clearly your objection about cynicism is all BS.

Esthier on July 19, 2007 at 11:49 AM

I dated a girl a few years ago who was a school teacher and read the thing to her students. She got through the book in like 3 hours or something. It’s not like reading atlas shrugged or something.

lorien1973 on July 19, 2007 at 11:48 AM

It depends on the book. The first three are relatively short, but the last three have been too long to finish in three hours.

Esthier on July 19, 2007 at 11:50 AM

I’d be offended if my child’s school abandoned truly great works of literature for this cheesy, pop culture trash.

Mike Honcho on July 19, 2007 at 11:36 AM

Esthier on July 19, 2007 at 11:50 AM

Harry comes out of the closet and is swiftly executed by the KKK……..anyone could have seen that one coming.

omnipotent on July 19, 2007 at 11:51 AM

I’d be offended if my child’s school abandoned truly great works of literature for this cheesy, pop culture trash.

Mike Honcho on July 19, 2007 at 11:36 AM

Who’s to say they can’t do both?

Esthier on July 19, 2007 at 11:51 AM

Esthier needs a vomit bag. I think IlPadrino has a stash.

seejanemom on July 19, 2007 at 11:52 AM

I gotta say…… RON DIES! hahahaahahahahah

msipes on July 19, 2007 at 11:53 AM

Yes, my stash of vomit bags stands proudly next to stack of citations you provided for Rowling’s pagan status.

I expect the volume of the gnashing of your teeth that will commence once literary critics begin drawing parallels between “Deathly Hallows” and the Crucifixion will be sufficient to unblock the Sargasso Sea.

Il Padrino on July 19, 2007 at 11:57 AM

Esthier needs a vomit bag. I think IlPadrino has a stash.

seejanemom on July 19, 2007 at 11:52 AM

Why? I’M not the one who’s sick.

And yeah, you’re “proof” on Rowling’s pagan status is severely lacking.

Esthier on July 19, 2007 at 11:59 AM

I could care less about the books but it’s lame to spoil it for people who do.

P.S. Darth Vader is Luke’s father!

Dash on July 19, 2007 at 11:59 AM

Well I’m a potterhead (thanks to my niece and nephew). I read the books before the movies came out and was hooked. I pre-ordered the last one so I’m not even gonna glance at the article. can’t wait til saturday!

I know they’re not classic literature and she’s not going to go down in history as the novelist of our time but they are really fun books. Since I just finished ‘The Road’ by Cormac McCarthy I definitely need something a little light-hearted

Keli on July 19, 2007 at 12:01 PM

And yeah, you’re “proof” on Rowling’s pagan status is severely lacking.

Esthier

GOOGLE IT, LIB. I have a life to live. Don’t let the door hit you on the way out.

seejanemom on July 19, 2007 at 12:03 PM

“J.K. Rowling, a Christian?”

Maybe that’s because she’s actually a Christian.

“I believe in God, not magic.” In fact, Rowling initially was afraid that if people were aware of her Christian faith, she would give away too much of what’s coming in the series. “If I talk too freely about that,” she told a Canadian reporter, “I think the intelligent reader – whether ten [years old] or sixty – will be able to guess what is coming in the books” (Michael Nelson, “Fantasia: The Gospel According to C.S. Lewis”, The American Prospect, vol. 13, no. 4, February 25, 2002)

ES: You do believe in God.

JKR: Yeah. Yeah.

ES: In magic and…

JKR: Magic in the sense in which it happens in my books, no, I don’t believe. I don’t believe in that. No. No. This is so frustrating. Again, there is so much I would like to say, and come back when I’ve written book seven. But then maybe you won’t need to even say it ’cause you’ll have found it out anyway. You’ll have read it (CBCNewsWorld: Hot Type, July 13, 2000).

Numerous times we see articles that mention the fact that she is a member of the Church of Scotland and a Presbyterian to boot. In a Washington Post article (”Charmed, I’m Sure,” October 20, 1999), we learn that JKR belonged to a congregation at Edinburgh and even had her daughter, Jessica christened there.

Obviously this doesn’t prove she’s a Christian, but it certainly paints her as someone who isn’t a “proud pagan.”

Esthier on July 19, 2007 at 12:07 PM

GOOGLE IT, LIB. I have a life to live. Don’t let the door hit you on the way out.
seejanemom on July 19, 2007 at 12:03 PM

I’ve used both google and Lexis/Nexis and have yet to find an interview where she says anything about her beliefs other than “I’m not telling you.”

Slublog on July 19, 2007 at 12:07 PM

GOOGLE IT, LIB. I have a life to live. Don’t let the door hit you on the way out.

seejanemom on July 19, 2007 at 12:03 PM

I have, and just because I don’t think Harry Potter is going to ruin children, it doesn’t mean that I’m a lib.

You really are unhinged and over something so small.

Esthier on July 19, 2007 at 12:08 PM

I’ve used both google and Lexis/Nexis and have yet to find an interview where she says anything about her beliefs other than “I’m not telling you.”

Slublog on July 19, 2007 at 12:07 PM

Well obviously that’s because you’re a liberal.

Esthier on July 19, 2007 at 12:09 PM

Well obviously that’s because you’re a liberal.
Esthier on July 19, 2007 at 12:09 PM

*Sigh* I suppose so.

Slublog on July 19, 2007 at 12:10 PM

Having *cough* read the book in advance of the release date (mostly to prevent myself from being spoiled by jerks on the web), I have to say … if the book reveals anything about her faith it is most definitely not pagan.

I will be perfectly willing to go into more detail once the book is on the shelf, but I won’t spoil any Potter fans here. Alas, I must cry in my beer (and vomit bags) over being thought a LIB. (Long Island Beach? SO there.)

Il Padrino on July 19, 2007 at 12:10 PM

“Unhinged”?

Thats the best you got?

Typical LIB.

Deny, Deflect, Accuse, Attack.

I speak authority on this, something as a childless child yourself you cannot claim.

seejanemom on July 19, 2007 at 12:11 PM

Il Padrino on July 19, 2007 at 12:10 PM

That’s exactly what her comments seem to imply, that the last book’s ending will reveal her religious beliefs to be, well, not pagan.

Esthier on July 19, 2007 at 12:12 PM

Having *cough* read the book in advance of the release date (mostly to prevent myself from being spoiled by jerks on the web), I have to say … if the book reveals anything about her faith it is most definitely not pagan.

Oh, and a fantastic liar, too, I see.

seejanemom on July 19, 2007 at 12:13 PM

This blogger thinks the book scans are fake:

http://havetoremember.wordpress.com/

JinxMcHue on July 19, 2007 at 12:13 PM

“Unhinged”?

Thats the best you got?

Typical LIB.

Deny, Deflect, Accuse, Attack.

I speak authority on this, something as a childless child yourself you cannot claim.

seejanemom on July 19, 2007 at 12:11 PM

I haven’t attacked you other than to say you’re going overboard here, which is nothing but an objective analysis of what’s going on here.

You are not responding to anything I’ve said and ignore the proof I bring while not being able to bring in any of your own.

I used to think better of you than this.

Esthier on July 19, 2007 at 12:14 PM

I speak authority on this, something as a childless child yourself you cannot claim.

seejanemom on July 19, 2007 at 12:11 PM

And as I’ve already stated, you only speak on the authority of your own experiences, which is worthless to the nation at large.

Anecdotes are only evidence that you had a past, which is evident in and of itself.

Esthier on July 19, 2007 at 12:16 PM

Who cares if she’s a pagan or not (which I doubt she is). I’ve read them all and I just don’t see where religion has anything at all to do with it. Maybe I’m just not ‘deep’ enough for Harry Potter to see the subliminal messages that were trying to convert me to witchcraft lol. My methodist Christianity seemed to stand up to them just fine. I just don’t get it when people try to vilify him. They’re just fun light reading, nothing deeper than that

Keli on July 19, 2007 at 12:16 PM

Does Harry lose his virginity in the final episode? Or, does he become a guy who blogs out of his apartment in Queens?

Blake on July 19, 2007 at 12:18 PM

Blake on July 19, 2007 at 12:18 PM

Either or? Ouch.

Esthier on July 19, 2007 at 12:20 PM

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