Michael Vick indicted for “dogfighting,” a.k.a., torturing and killing dogs
posted at 1:17 pm on July 18, 2007 by Allahpundit
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I glanced at Goldstein’s post about it last night and scoffed when he said Vick’s career is probably over. QBs who run a 4.3/40 aren’t lightly forfeited. But having now read the article in detail, my god.
When a Bad Newz Kennels dog was wounded in a losing fight, NFL star Michael Vick was consulted before the animal was doused with water and electrocuted. That’s just one of the gruesome details that emerged Tuesday when the Atlanta Falcons quarterback and three others were indicted by a federal grand jury…
About eight young dogs were put to death at the Surry County home after they were found not ready to fight in April 2007, the indictment said. They were killed “by hanging, drowning and/or slamming at least one dog’s body to the ground.”
“Some of the grisly details in these filings shocked even me, and I’m a person who faces this stuff every day,” Goodwin said. “I was surprised to see that they were killing dogs by hanging them, and one dog was killed by slamming it to the ground. Those are extremely violent methods of execution — they’re unnecessary and just sick.”…
Before fights, participating dogs of the same sex would be weighed and bathed, according to the filings. Opposing dogs would be washed to remove any poison or narcotic placed on the dog’s coat that could affect the other dog’s performance.
Sometimes, dogs weren’t fed to “make it more hungry for the other dog.”
Fights would end when one dog died or with the surrender of the losing dog, which was sometimes put to death by drowning, strangulation, hanging, gun shot, electrocution or some other method, according to the documents.
Vick doesn’t know anything about it, of course, except that he, um, owned the property where it all took place, had his own nickname among dogfighters, and may even have had his own Bad Newz Kennels t-shirt and headband. Sounds like a good guy. Exit question: Is Goldstein right? Is he done? Note: not whether he should be, but whether he will be.
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Maybe this is why Vick sucked butt last year – this dogfighting thing distracted him from his obvious Superbowl-bound destiny.
Heh.
Good Lt on July 18, 2007 at 1:20 PM
Absolutely sick. A guy with everything going for him in the world does this?
And good to see you acknowledging your Creator lately, AP. Hehe.
PRCalDude on July 18, 2007 at 1:21 PM
No. Professional athletes are above the law.
PRCalDude on July 18, 2007 at 1:22 PM
As part of the “Dog-Mafia” I believe that subhuman ass should be shot. Sickening. If he does retain his “job” as a qb, hopefully there are some mighty large linebackers that love dogs that will put an end to his career the old-fashioned way…by breaking his arm in about a dozen places.
robblefarian on July 18, 2007 at 1:23 PM
Hopefully he has a morals clause in his contract that enables the Falcons to cut him loose without a lot of unnecessary damage to the team. While indictment doesn’t equate to conviction, Vick WAS involved and he should pay with his career. Sickening…and to think I used to be a fan of his.
JustTruth101 on July 18, 2007 at 1:24 PM
I saw that on The Wire. Anyway, how would three years + in prison affect a star QB’s career?
Blake on July 18, 2007 at 1:25 PM
This is almost as bad as what PETA does to dogs they “rescue” from shelters.
Editor on July 18, 2007 at 1:26 PM
SI had a detailed piece on this several issues back.
Absolutely gruesome stuff.
I suggested he gets a year off, courtesy of Jane Skinner’s husband.
JammieWearingFool on July 18, 2007 at 1:26 PM
Given the value that most professional leagues place on revenue, Vick’s not playing or playing will only be affected by the number of sponsers who wish to bail out on the NFL. His guilt or innocence won’t be a factor. This is Imus all over again. Can you imagine the stink and pressure the ASPCA and PETA can raise?
MNDavenotPC on July 18, 2007 at 1:27 PM
Awful. That some people find this entertaining is even more awful.
Slublog on July 18, 2007 at 1:28 PM
When this story first broke recently, there was the usual “Vick sasn’t involved” routine…
Apparently he had his own nickname…
I can’t imagine, no matter how good a player the guy is, that it won’t have repercussions.
ugh, thing like this just make one sick.
JetBoy on July 18, 2007 at 1:28 PM
Guess I should have a link to a story for that last statement…
http://www.roanoke-chowannewsherald.com/articles/2005/06/18/news/news1.txt
Editor on July 18, 2007 at 1:28 PM
I might have to go moonbat if I hear one more person on the news or the sports shows say that he is one of the best players out there, one of the most dynamic players, etc. Vick has done nothing in football. Great, he can run around the field. Wooppie.
William Teach on July 18, 2007 at 1:28 PM
He’s done, scratch him off your fantasy football draft cheat sheets.
swami on July 18, 2007 at 1:28 PM
He doesnt have a future with the Falcons. Bernard Marcus has got to be tired of baby sitting another gangsta playa and will save a ton of money on Vick’s contract if he gets con’Vick’ted.
doginblack on July 18, 2007 at 1:29 PM
Oh , BTW if he is found guilty? I want the slug chained and placed in the ring with one of those dogs.
MNDavenotPC on July 18, 2007 at 1:29 PM
Given the way Goodell dealt with Pacman Jones and Chris Henry earlier in this offseason, I think Vick is going to have the book thrown at him by the league. Especially since he was given every chance by Goodell to come clean about the rumors and flatly denied them until he was formally indicted.
I feel bad for the Falcons and their ownership – they’ve really stuck their necks out and coddled Vick like a son and this is the thanks they get. It’s also going to be interesting to see what the NFLPA does – usually they’re up in arms and appealing any suspension the league doles out against a player, but I don’t think even they can get behind Vick on this one.
Nor should they, or anyone. This kind of conduct has no place in civilized society, much less a football field.
World B. Free on July 18, 2007 at 1:29 PM
Yes, he’s done. These are federal charges he is facing not petty misdemeanors. If he is convicted, and it seems likely he will be, he is looking at doing some serious time. Unfortunately, he won’t be face the penalty he subjected his dogs to but just maybe he will get a good fight in jail.
Roger Goddell has already shown his zero tolerance policy with Tank Johnson and Pacman Jones. Look for Vick to get a lifetime ban.
JackStraw on July 18, 2007 at 1:30 PM
Yes, he’s done…with Nike and the NFL and life as a free man.
sublime on July 18, 2007 at 1:30 PM
The ESPN morning show compared this to the Imus story. The act itself may not be enough to sink Vick, but what about the ensuing outcry? The Humane Society, PETA, the SPCA and every other animal rights group will be raising hell until Vick is punished to their satisfaction, and the NFL isn’t big on that kind of negative press.
Number 2 on July 18, 2007 at 1:30 PM
Should be.
Won’t be.
Too much money at stake, even for this.
Jaibones on July 18, 2007 at 1:30 PM
I was watching ESPN First Take on this at lunch. They were saying it was a cultural, specifically African American “sport.” That shocked me. I never associated dog fighting as cultural, but then again who do I think of when I hear cock-fighting, other than Sienfeld.
Surprising ESPN would go the race route on this, with one of the speaker being a black woman. The other guy quoted Nate Newton (former NFL’er) saying, “its just a dog” when talking about dog fighting.
Surprising.
sunny on July 18, 2007 at 1:30 PM
Whowouldathunk Ron Mexico could do such a thing?
ScottMcC on July 18, 2007 at 1:32 PM
Yes, he is done. Goddell is calling the tunes now.
Spirit of 1776 on July 18, 2007 at 1:32 PM
Now I’m scared! ESPN and I on the same page analysis wise. Not a good omen.
MNDavenotPC on July 18, 2007 at 1:32 PM
One more thing, Vick is probably the next Paul Crew. Too bad the remake of “The Longest Yard” has already been done.
Mean Machine
Mean Machine
Mean Machine
swami on July 18, 2007 at 1:33 PM
He deserves hard time. His little brother is a bad seed also.
PRCalDude on July 18, 2007 at 1:34 PM
He’s done as far as I’m concerned and I’ll participate in boycotting any team that hires him. Here’s hoping he goes to prison, which, according to a radio story I heard, could be ten years.
Dusty on July 18, 2007 at 1:34 PM
Absolutely sickening. He deserves to live in absolute poverty for the remainder of his measly, worthless existence.
amerpundit on July 18, 2007 at 1:35 PM
I’m a big Va Tech fan, and back when Michael was QB there, I became a big fan of him.
I was obviously impressed with his athleticism. Beyond that though, I was amazed at his manner – I don’t think I’ve ever seen a more modest and apparently well-grounded QB. His brother, Marcus, has always been a punk, as evidence by his flashing gang symbols at Michael’s press conference announcing he was going to Va Tech.
Needless to say, this whole turn of events has taken the shine off. I can’t help but think this is something that developed in the moral vacuum of super-stardom and easy wealth.
If these allegations are proven, I hope he enjoys the full penalty of the law.
krakatoa on July 18, 2007 at 1:35 PM
As Gutfeld put it, everybody likes dogs better than people. There are illegals running rings like that here in los angeles. Hopefully, this’ll bring attention to those as well.
PRCalDude on July 18, 2007 at 1:37 PM
There are illegals running rings like that here in los angeles. Hopefully, this’ll bring attention to those as well.
lol… yeah… good one PRCD.
krakatoa on July 18, 2007 at 1:40 PM
Bah…this is just more of the pussification of America. It’s perfectly ok to murder our own children before they are born but this, this should be a criminal act…
Please…Liberalism has infected you guy’s so much that you cant see the noses on your own faces. Face reality folks, human being kill things. In fact it’s what we do best.
Think that steak you ate last night wasn’t alive once? There is no gentle kind way to kill anything. “Sport’s” that involve killing animals have been around as long as humanity has existed, bull fights cock fights dog fights, big deal.
Only when you can give up killing completely will you have the moral authority to condemn this. And when I say give up killing completely I mean completely, no more animal protean, no more plant protean, no more sea food, because you got to kill it all before you can eat it.
And dont give me that cr@p about needless or inhumane killing either, nothing wants to die, there is no nice way to kill anything.
doriangrey on July 18, 2007 at 1:40 PM
Don’t compare the two. What PETA does is hypocritical – but the dogs probably should be put down anyways. What dog-fighters do is barbaric. I dont like PETA either, but don’t put them in this class.
lorien1973 on July 18, 2007 at 1:40 PM
Yep. Done. Stick a fork in him. He’ll have to spend a great deal of time fighting this case and even if he isn’t convicted the stuff that comes out in the trial will be damning. Obviously if convicted he’s way passed done. He’ll be reduced to a bad memory.
Americans will ignore a lot of crap from pro atheletes. They can take drugs, screw around, illegally gamble, drive drunk, even beat their wives. If it was just illegal dogfighting, I think he might still have a career. But electrocuting, hanging, and smashing dogs until death is, I think for most people, over the line.
Who’s going to go on tv and support this guy? Who exactly is the pro-dog torture lobby?
Thomas the Wraith on July 18, 2007 at 1:40 PM
I am going to go home and give my daughter’s dog a huge hug and as many doggie treats as she wants.
Sickening.
Bob's Kid on July 18, 2007 at 1:40 PM
I lived in Puerto Rico for a while. Cock fighting was very big in certain circles and legal. One of my Puerto Rican friends took me one night. I lasted about 10 minutes. And these were chickens.
Damn, I love dogs. This just makes me sick and angry.
JackStraw on July 18, 2007 at 1:41 PM
I’ve always had a special anger toward animal abusers, ones who hurt dogs especially. I would without a doubt support the death penalty for things like this. People who do this sort of thing are absolutely scum and not worth sharing air with.
bj1126 on July 18, 2007 at 1:42 PM
Today, we learned Vick got indicted for turning his Crib into an Abu Ghraib Prison for Dogs in Virginia.
Tomorrow, we will learn he has “issues” and enters rehab.
kiakjones on July 18, 2007 at 1:42 PM
Hopefully this won’t lead to more dog fighting groups popping up all over the place. I can just see a whole bunch of morons out there thinking that this is cool and starting their own group after hearing about this story. I hope they make Vick’s penalty extremely sever for that reason alone. They won’t though. I have a feeling he will be found “not guilty” by a jury of falcon’s fans made possible by an expensive lawyer.
Zetterson on July 18, 2007 at 1:43 PM
First of all, neither is acceptable. Secondly,
He’s not killing them. He’s teaching them to fight each other, and slowly bleed to death as they rip each other to shreds for his entertainment.
His goal isn’t to kill the dogs. His goal is to watch them rip each other to shreds and slowly bleed to death. If the dog didn’t die, he drowned it or electricuted it.
We eat meat to survive. He took part in dog fighting for his entertainment.
amerpundit on July 18, 2007 at 1:44 PM
Tangential to the matter at hand, but QB’s who can’t read defenses and can’t get the ball to open receivers should be lightly forfeited … or at least moved to RB or WR, where he belongs. Vick’s QBing skills suck.
My hunch says he’s more done than a steak left on the grill for a couple of hours. New NFL commissioner Roger Goodell has taken a hard line against disciplinary infractions. These charges, if credible (and my hunch again says they are) go way beyond anything else he’s had to deal with thus far.
thirteen28 on July 18, 2007 at 1:45 PM
Both branches from the same rotten trunk.
PRCalDude on July 18, 2007 at 1:46 PM
This stuff is common, the fact Michael Vick was doing this was no surprise to me. We had a problem with people having dogfights here, but I think the cops have managed to take down most of the rings and break up the main breeders for the dogfights.
Pitbulls have become a big trendy dog, which has caused an uptick in mill puppies, some inbred, but also dogfighting and poor handling, care and treatment of said dogs. I’m always real wary around Pit Bulls because of this, not because the breed is violent, but because of how the dogs are being treated bred and raised.
Rapper DMX was known for his abuse of dogs too, so stars and athletes are by no means immune for this kind of savage stupidity. Michael Vick will get suspended, but he won’t be booted, unless the amount of trash and stuff thrown on the field when he goes on gets to be too much or there is a major backlash and concerted effort to get him thrown off the team.
Bad Candy on July 18, 2007 at 1:46 PM
Atlanta has a history of forgiving sports players for very serious criminal behavior:
http://atlanta.about.com/cs/sports/a/thrashers.htm
Zetterson on July 18, 2007 at 1:47 PM
Exactly. As somebody else said, he’s done nothing in football. Being a quarterback is as much based on quick thinking as running. When you try to run a modern computer with an 8086 chip, guess what you get?
PRCalDude on July 18, 2007 at 1:47 PM
Are you kidding me? They really said that? Disturbing.
William Teach on July 18, 2007 at 1:48 PM
That’s one of the more racist statements I’ve ever read.
PRCalDude on July 18, 2007 at 1:50 PM
Call me the ‘ferret-man’ if ya want but the 4 ‘kids’ running around the property have ‘rihts’…..the first of which is a benevolent master. Mr Vick needs a good long jail term and 10 years of community service with a animal shelter. ^&#$%!@!!@#@#$$$%^##@@@ moron!
Limerick on July 18, 2007 at 1:51 PM
It was that tool, skip bayless, who said that – or something similar, I heard about that on sports radio this morning. He thinks this whole case is racism against Vick.
lorien1973 on July 18, 2007 at 1:52 PM
Hard to believe someone could do this kind of stuff to another living creature. Vick is a sadistic, demented sub-human. Not for a second do I believe he didn’t know what was going on at that house.
But from here, who knows? The Commish is playing hardball these days, and ‘Ron Mexico’ has already given the league two black eyes, with his herpes lawsuit and the dope in the airport fiasco. And now this. Hanging dogs, hosing them down with water and electrocuting them, drowning them … I’d like to throttle him just thinking about it.
But the Falcons are apparently standing by their man, at least for now. Guess they feel like they have to, given what they’ve invested in him and how much he means to the team.
But if I’m Goodell, I’m showing the guy the door. The NFL just can’t have their players associated with dog fighting, it’s that simple. Guess we’ll see which way it goes, but I’m betting the hammer gets dropped at some point, by which I mean a season suspension or the like. He ought to be banned for life, but the NFLPA knows its rights, too.
Final note on Goodell: the fact that he’s shagging Jane Skinner just makes me admire him all the more for the way he’s handled himself so far. Well-played, sir.
Blacksheep on July 18, 2007 at 1:53 PM
He’s toast. It’ll probably take a while to play out but the end result is he gone.
there it is on July 18, 2007 at 1:53 PM
He’s a goner. His reputation is done. There will probably be those who try to resurrect his career, but the outcry from the public (much like the Amnesty bill) will not allow it. It’s pure evil.
tdau1997 on July 18, 2007 at 1:54 PM
If I hear anymore of these cries of ‘racism’ every time a black athlete gets charged, I’m done watching pro sports (except for the UFC, where the punks generally get pummeled). A black coach took his team to the national title in the NFL last year. Rich black athletes are ubiquitous. Where is the racism?
PRCalDude on July 18, 2007 at 1:57 PM
Of course he’ll be back, he’s worth too much $ to the NFL.
Too much time and too much money, not enough education; I doubt he’s the only athlete that was into this. Expect ESPN to run with the racism angle. They love nothing more than to have an opportunity to stop reporting scores and get on their social issues high-horse.
brak on July 18, 2007 at 1:58 PM
I’m so baffled by what the appeal to this sport could be for anybody.
Zetterson on July 18, 2007 at 1:59 PM
Thank goodness he didn’t put his dogs in a carrier and strap it to the roof!
Well, this is just sad. Mike has had his problems but nothing that reaches this level. I’m inclined to afford him the benefit of the doubt.
csdeven on July 18, 2007 at 2:00 PM
It’s hard to imagine anyone being involved in anything this twisted and sick but why would someone who essentially is the head of two multi-million dollar operations (his own personal company and as the face of an NFL franchise) throw it all away like this?
Sick and strange.
With that said and not to go all Ron Paul but why exactly is this a federal case? Yeah, I get the crossing state lines thing but isn’t this something that should be handled below the federal level?
Drew on July 18, 2007 at 2:00 PM
I might have to go moonbat if I hear one more person on the news or the sports shows say that he is one of the best players out there, one of the most dynamic players, etc. Vick has done nothing in football. Great, he can run around the field. Wooppie.
William Teach on July 18, 2007 at 1:28 PM
Please no one take this the wrong way at all but many years later looks like Rush might have a had a point……..
Joey1974 on July 18, 2007 at 2:01 PM
amerpundit on July 18, 2007 at 1:44 PM
Talk about liberal brainwashing. Have you ever actually killed anything that you ate? You have become so distanced from killing that you cant grasp what this is all about. Go out and kill your dinner a couple dozen times and you will understand how the “Sport’s” of animal fighting came into existence.
So yes I am officially on record as not having a problem with dog fighting or cock fighting or bull fighting, but then I have killed my dinner myself many times. I have wrung quite a few chickens necks shot quite a few pretty little bunny rabbits slit the throat of a few pigs and even shot Bambi’s ass, right before I cut them up and threw them in the stew pot.
I know what it like to kill an animal, and no I don’t have any problems with it.
doriangrey on July 18, 2007 at 2:02 PM
When it comes to Skip Bayless, you can pretty much stop right after the word “said” while being supremely confident that anything that comes after “said” is pure and utter crap.
thirteen28 on July 18, 2007 at 2:02 PM
Rush did have a point, except that it was about McNabb.
there it is on July 18, 2007 at 2:04 PM
Agreed.
Spirit of 1776 on July 18, 2007 at 2:05 PM
This doesn’t really bother me. I pay big money to watch humans fight, bleed and break bones. The best part of a hockey game is the fights. People watch 500 laps of Nascar to watch cars crash and burn. We all slow down and look at the guts spilled at a roadside accident.
Islamofacists lopping off our heads gets me pissed, doggies fighting rouses minor interest, if it was up against the Beckham & his wife show I’d watch, up against Lost…it’d lose out.
I’m a dog owner, my dog is like a part of my family and lives better than most people in the world, but he’s a tool; the 2nd line of defense for my home and family. I wouldn’t fight him or care to see him injured but I’d put a .45 behind his ear if he ever bit the kids.
Alden Pyle on July 18, 2007 at 2:05 PM
Let me make a Christian case against it then.
At man’s creation, we were charged with being the custodian of the earth, subduing it yet preserving it. Yes, we were given animals to eat, but dogfighting doesn’t seem to fall along those lines, does it?
PRCalDude on July 18, 2007 at 2:05 PM
I am sitting here looking at a Jack Russell Terrier that has more heart than Vick could ever muster, either on or off the field, and he is my best friend. Vick needs to be locked up for a VERY long time !
DoctorDentons on July 18, 2007 at 2:06 PM
Michael Vick is far from the first athlete/celeb to get busted for dogfighting.
Bad Candy on July 18, 2007 at 2:07 PM
Rush did have a point, except that it was about McNabb.
there it is on July 18, 2007 at 2:04 PM
I understand that it was about McNabb, it just seems sad to em taht the sports and entertainment media is going to circle the wagons around this animal and defend him. It seems “the need for him to suceed” outweighs his barbaric behavior.
Joey1974 on July 18, 2007 at 2:10 PM
I blogged this as well, as it took place near my hometown. Its not just those 8 dogs who died. All of the surviving pit bull fighting dogs had to be housed somewhere as evidence for trial, and they were put in public shelters and pounds. Taking up space for other animals.
Dozens of otherwise adoptable dogs have been euthanized now in Hampton Roads because there is simply no room to house them all.
Vick will never live this down. His career is over. His endorsements will be dried up. Anytime he makes a public appearance, I expect people to bark like dogs at him to shame him for what he did. It wasn’t just cruel; it was sickening.
BelchSpeak on July 18, 2007 at 2:11 PM
Just a dog!!!? Just a dog!!!?
Freaking dogs just want love…where in the f is PETA…
Oh, right, this just black peoples’ culture. It’s not right or wrong, just different.
Zach on July 18, 2007 at 2:12 PM
PRCalDude on July 18, 2007 at 2:05 PM
Like I said, go kill your own dinner a couple dozen times, then get back to me on that one. Personally I dont think anyone who is unwilling to kill their own food deserves to eat. We are killer’s, get over it. Animal fighting is just a natural extension of that fact.
doriangrey on July 18, 2007 at 2:12 PM
BelchSpeak, beyond that, most of Vick’s fighting dogs will have to be put down because they are next to impossible to get rehabilitated to where they are safe to be adopted.
Bad Candy on July 18, 2007 at 2:13 PM
Deer hunting……
-don’t know many hunters who put one in each leg, one in the gut, and three in the jaw before they take home the trophy
Beef……
-haven’t seen any kneecapping or and eye gouging
Chicken……
-wouldn’t think of pulling out one feather at a time and asking the chicken after each pull what they thought about it.
Varmits…..
-never have put one in a barrel of rain water and held it down just to feel it squirm
Big difference between ‘eating’ and ’sport’.
Limerick on July 18, 2007 at 2:15 PM
Thanks for the lecture, Ted Nugent.
thirteen28 on July 18, 2007 at 2:15 PM
Doesn’t KFC and McDonald’s practice cruelty to the animals that they then feed to us? Anyone who eats veal is an accomplice to the same level of animal torture that Vick is (allegedly).
Isn’t this outrage at least partially animal chauvinism? Since we eat chickens and cows, we don’t particularly mind how they meet their end. But since we don’t eat dogs, we won’t tolerate cruelty to dogs. It’s an arbitrary standard based on which animal we’ve domesticated. I can see making an argument that dog-fighting should be illegal because that kind of animal cruelty is a precursor to serious anti-social behavior. On the other hand, we murder animals for sport all the time. Other than the sheer level of depravity, this is essentially the same as shooting a deer in the heart with a bow and arrow. You think the deer doesn’t suffer?
I’m kind of torn on this. I hate dogs, but this does seem a little grisly. However, I get the impression that the outrage is motivated by people attaching human emotions to their pets. Chickens and cows and deer aren’t pets, so their slaughter doesn’t generate the same kind of outrageous outrage that this does.
Enrique on July 18, 2007 at 2:19 PM
Nugent would be appalled too. There’s a world difference between trying to kill something for food in an efficient and humane manner and slowily torturing a dog to death by electrocuting, drowning it or bludgeoning it to death slowly, or having a dog bleed out slowly in the jaws of another for your amusement.
Bad Candy on July 18, 2007 at 2:21 PM
doriangray,
You are–seriously–the incarnation of uneducated, moronic, jackassery. Are you trying to embarrass yourself?
And what’s with everyone else trying to actually engage this person? Anyone who is intellectually incapable of making a distinction between hunting for food and behaving like nothing better than animals themselves–basically killing man’s best and most loyal friends for pleasure–deserves ridicule, not serious consideration.
“Liberal brainwashing”… what a mindless caricature you are..
DaveS on July 18, 2007 at 2:21 PM
I doubt Ted Nugent supports dog fighting.
Killing to eat and killing for sport are not brothers. Respect for life is in fact part of the justification for taking life to fuel life. Taking life for it’s own sake, or for enjoyment have no place at the table of civilized people.
Spirit of 1776 on July 18, 2007 at 2:21 PM
Limerick on July 18, 2007 at 2:15 PM
What BS, where does animal fighting come from? It comes from the days before guns when killing dinner was a life or death struggle and it is only natural to want to see that life or death struggle played out where your life isn’t at stake.
thirteen28 on July 18, 2007 at 2:15 PM
You’re welcome, now go get yourself some dinner, the old fashioned way, kill it before you grill it.
doriangrey on July 18, 2007 at 2:23 PM
I can’t see how he can remain an NFL player if he is sent to prison for up to 6 years. If he is convicted, his career is over.
Even if he is acquited, the NFL will protect its image and kick him out.
He’s a gonner.
Bad Candy brings up the issue of the pit bull breed.
I have a young lab I’m taking through obedience training right now. One of the trainers has a pit bull as her personal pet. This dog is well adjusted, friendly, affectionate, and is well behaved around other dogs. This dog is what every dog should be, regardless of breed.
On the other hand, one of the dogs in the class is another pit bull. This dog has been declared by the county as being a dangerous dog because it hasn’t been obedience trained and got out of it’s yard. The owner is trying to rectify this because one more incident and the dog will be destroyed.
The point is that it isn’t the breed, BUT THE OWNER that is responsible for the bad reputation of the pit pull breed. A pit bull is just like any other dog. Every dog needs to be “socialized” to be a companion to humans. That means basic obedience training and raising in an atmosphere where the dog is part of the family.
georgej on July 18, 2007 at 2:23 PM
Have I ever told you I want to meet you?
amerpundit on July 18, 2007 at 2:26 PM
If I did, I lied.
amerpundit on July 18, 2007 at 2:26 PM
I know.
I really wasn’t trying to criticize Ted, if you catch my drift.
thirteen28 on July 18, 2007 at 2:27 PM
Should he be banned for life? Yes
Will he be? no
From what I have seen so far, at most it is a he said-he said situation. Without the proof that he did these things he will walk away scott free. And without a conviction I doubt that the NFL will suspend him.
conservnut on July 18, 2007 at 2:27 PM
All true george, problem is there are a lot of people who don’t take care of their dogs or even encourage them to be violent psychotics, plus the issues of poor breeding.
Bad Candy on July 18, 2007 at 2:28 PM
I’ve done the legal research, and it is glaringly obvious that Michael Vick cannot be prosecuted for these alleged “crimes.”
I will refer Judge John Paul Stevens opinion, in writing for the majority, in the obscure but historically important case in which he upheld the constitutionality of the “You Can’t Arrest Me, I’m a Basketball Player” Doctine.
wordwarp on July 18, 2007 at 2:28 PM
You couldn’t be more wrong, about many things, but particularly about where dog fighting comes from. It comes from the sick and demented days of the Roman Coliseum where all types of animal slaughter was used to entertain the morons of the day.
These are dogs fighting each other. Dogs breed and trained to do one thing, kill. This has nothing to do with hunting or food no matter how much you try to convince yourself of it.
JackStraw on July 18, 2007 at 2:28 PM
No, it isn’t. And your beliefs must conform to what the Bible has to say about it. I’m willing to kill to eat, because that’s part of the reasons animals were put here: to feed us. That’s entirely different than causing them to fight one another for sport when they wouldn’t otherwise do so. Read Genesis 2. We’re custodians. And we usually don’t kill animals cruelly like Vick and his henchmen did. We kill them quickly.
Dogs don’t naturally do that to one another, they form packs after they’ve established an order.
PRCalDude on July 18, 2007 at 2:29 PM
Enrique on July 18, 2007 at 2:19 PM
Yep the term is anthropomorphism (just throwing that out there for those stupid enough to think I’m uneducated) and it means
Exactly, you dont see those screaming about dog fights screaming about how cow’s or pig’s or chickens are killed. No they would rather not think about it. They want to believe that that steak just magically appeared in the supermarket cooler.
There is no nice way to kill anything, if you have a problem with it then quite eating.
doriangrey on July 18, 2007 at 2:31 PM
JackStraw on July 18, 2007 at 2:28 PM
Wrong Jack, it comes from training dogs to hunt and then watching them turn on each other during the killing part of the hunt.
Hey man your dong killed my dog,
Your dog was a pussy
My next dog wont be
Yea sure we’ll see about that…
doriangrey on July 18, 2007 at 2:34 PM
doriangray:
Y’know, I’ve seen your comments on here many times, often aggressive and quick to snark. But you’ve always had logic to back you up so I appreciated your thoughts.
Here, however, you’re just showing yourself to be an incompetent, idiotic ass who defends killing animals slowly and barbarically for your own enjoyment.
You are a effing joke for even trying to defend this and I’d say you used up any credibility you could possibly have.
Now go drown some kittens. Asshole.
SouthernDem on July 18, 2007 at 2:34 PM
First of all, people don’t teach cows and deer to tear each other to shreds for the entertainment of the person. They do, however, teach chickens – cock fighting. It’s outlawed in most states, and it should be frowned upon, as well.
Again, I stress the fact that there’s a difference between eating something in order to survive (survival), and teaching animals to kill each other for your enjoyment (sick).
amerpundit on July 18, 2007 at 2:35 PM
Here, here.
amerpundit on July 18, 2007 at 2:35 PM
doriangrey on July 18, 2007 at 2:02 PM
Killing to eat food or to manage a population (Deer for example) is far different than reveling in torture.
The gladiator spectacles were an outgrowth of war which is natural to humans throughout history but that doesn’t make it right to have humans battle to the death for fun.
The criminality of this is victimizing an innocent entity that doesn’t understand and doing it just for ENTERTAINMENT.
Besides anyone who would abuse a dog or a horse just ain’t worth a s*it.
Now if we want to discuss cats Im open to debate.:)
Trooper on July 18, 2007 at 2:36 PM
‘Maximus!’
‘Maximus!’
‘Maximus!’
‘Maximus!’
Limerick on July 18, 2007 at 2:36 PM
PRCalDude on July 18, 2007 at 2:29 PM
Killing is killing, if you dont get that then you will never understand anything.
anthropomorphism, Dog’s do not have morals, they have no qualms killing each other, they kill each other within their packs on a regular basis and they kill those not of their pack even more often.
doriangrey on July 18, 2007 at 2:38 PM
Or yorkies. Yorkie punting should be a sport. heheh.
PRCalDude on July 18, 2007 at 2:38 PM
That’s news to me.
I’d say that it’s more the “gangsta” culture to which too many young black men are subscribing. None of the men in my family–old or young–would ever dream of doing anything like this for many reasons; not the least of which is because of the flak they would catch from us–the women in the family.
Torturers of animals bear hard scrutiny and should be punished with jail time. Not just because of the cruelty to weaker beings, but because such monsters are often not averse to torturing humans.
baldilocks on July 18, 2007 at 2:38 PM
Oh, ok. Who to believe, you or historical fact. Gosh, I’m torn.
JackStraw on July 18, 2007 at 2:41 PM
SouthernDem on July 18, 2007 at 2:34 PM
Yea, what ever.
Sure, want to donate some…
doriangrey on July 18, 2007 at 2:42 PM
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