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A Fact-Based Analysis of Johnny Sutton’s Fact Sheet in Anticipation of Sutton’s Testimony Today

posted at 9:55 am on July 17, 2007 by Patterico
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Right now, the Senate Judiciary Committee is beginning a hearing regarding the prosecution of Border Patrol Agents Ramos and Compean. Johnny Sutton, the U.S. Attorney for the Western District of Texas whose office prosecuted the Ramos/Compean case, is scheduled to testify.

Over at my blog, my valued commenter DRJ has provided a detailed post which compares the claims made in Johnny Sutton’s most recent press release against the facts that emerged at trial.

DRJ’s post today draws on a thorough knowledge of the trial transcripts in the case, which she has summarized in previous posts at my site. DRJ shares my concern for the problems posed by illegal immigration. She is somewhat more suspicious of the Ramos/Compean verdict than I am, but is first and foremost a rational and fair-minded individual who bases her decisions on the facts. Here are some of her conclusions about the trial, and Johnny Sutton’s press release:

  • The testimony of Agent Oscar Juarez, who corroborated parts of the story of drug smuggler (and shooting victim) Osvaldo Aldrete-Davila, is in DRJ’s opinion “of questionable reliability” because he gave several conflicting stories before trial. Indeed, DRJ notes, even the Government’s investigator didn’t believe Juarez had been fully honest.
  • The facts at trial demonstrate that Johnny Sutton originally misstated the nature of the immunity given to Aldrete-Davila. In a previous press release, Sutton claimed that the government had merely agreed that Aldrete-Davila’s testimony at trial could not be used against him — a limited form of immunity. DRJ notes, with citations to the transcript, that the immunity agreement was actually much broader. It was essentially a promise of transactional immunity — i.e., Aldrete-Davila cannot be prosecuted for his actions on the day he was shot.
  • Regarding the immunity agreement, DRJ notes: “There was no provision in Aldrete-Davila’s immunity agreement that the deal was off if he lied.” As a prosecutor, I must say that I find this astounding. The first rule of an immunity agreement is that the witness must tell the truth; thus, it is a standard condition that the deal is off if the immunized witness lies. I can’t imagine a legitimate reason that Aldrete-Davila’s agreement apparently contained no such stipulation.

While these facts favor the agents’ position, DRJ establishes that the facts at trial also support the Government’s position in several respects. For example:

  • DRJ agrees with the U.S. Attorney that “Agent Ramos stipulated that the bullet extracted from Aldrete came from his service weapon” — a stipulation that was “based on independent forensic analysis that Ramos did not dispute at trial.” So you can stop whining about how the bullet might not have come from Ramos’s gun. It did.
  • DRJ sets forth no facts to dispute the Government’s contention that supervisors were not aware of the shooting on the day it happened. She says the evidence at trial showed that “no supervisors were on the scene during the shooting.” While it is true that two supervisors showed up to the scene of the shooting afterwards, the Government’s evidence showed that they were not made aware that there had been a shooting. They learned about the shooting weeks or months after the fact. By the way, it’s also a myth that Border Patrol policy prevents agents from reporting a shooting — although DRJ disagrees that the policy requiring reporting was as clear as the Government made it out to be.

Incidentally, Sutton’s fact sheet alleges that Ramos — the agent who was beaten in prison — had asked to be placed in the general population, because he did not want to suffer the “punitive consequences” of segregation (which is not always itself considered a picnic). DRJ and I have no idea whether this is actually true.

I commend DRJ’s entire post to anyone interested in judging this case based on facts, rather than ranting based on rumors and emotion. You can read it here.


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I’ll stick with ranting based on emotion.

FREE THEM!!!

JayHaw Phrenzie on July 17, 2007 at 9:58 AM

FREE RAMOS AND COMPEAN!!!

Blake on July 17, 2007 at 9:59 AM

He shot an unarmed smuggler with hundreds of pounds of weed eh?

In the last ten years how many smugglers with even 100 pounds of weed have been found to be unarmed?

The “facts” don’t pass the smell test.

TunaTalon on July 17, 2007 at 10:08 AM

Oh, this is going to be a fun thread.

Slublog on July 17, 2007 at 10:09 AM

When and if the democrats move to impeach Bush, I will not say a word. I’ll support him like he has supported Ramos and Campeon.
That is all.

TheSitRep on July 17, 2007 at 10:12 AM

Let’s see if we can’t derail an awful thread before it gets rolling. Ground rules: If you wish to challenge Patterico’s facts, please do so. If you wish to scream “FREE RAMOS AND COMPEAN! OPEN SEASON ON ILLEGALS!”, please do it somewhere else.

Just the facts, ma’ams. And sirs.

Allahpundit on July 17, 2007 at 10:15 AM

Seconding that.

Michelle on July 17, 2007 at 10:17 AM

The facts at trial demonstrate that Johnny Sutton originally misstated the nature of the immunity given to Aldrete-Davila. In a previous press release, Sutton claimed that the government had merely agreed that Aldrete-Davila’s testimony at trial could not be used against him — a limited form of immunity. DRJ notes, with citations to the transcript, that the immunity agreement was actually much broader. It was essentially a promise of transactional immunity — i.e., Aldrete-Davila cannot be prosecuted for his actions on the day he was shot.

Here’s a question for the lawyer types on the thread. It’s something I’ve never quite understood.

What circumstances dictate the type of immunity a particular witness receives? Is it dependent on the severity of the crime that person has committed versus what they provide for the government?, or are there some sort of guidelines prosecutors are obliged to follow?

Understanding that might help determine whether Aldrete-Davila received some sort of special treatment in this case.

Slublog on July 17, 2007 at 10:20 AM

The first rule of an immunity agreement is that the witness must tell the truth give up a bigger fish.

Fixed it.

No big fish here, but the immunity deal smelled like one.

fogw on July 17, 2007 at 10:21 AM

The key question is if a reasonable person would believe that the drug runner was armed.

If so, then the non reporting becomes a firing offense, not a jail time offense.

Add in that they didn’t know if they hit him, and the guy kept running, and things get even muddier on the non reporting front.

Its like our soldiers over in Iraq right now… we are trying to run everything through lawyers, and leaving our Front line guys hanging… it used to be that OUR guys were given the benefit of the doubt, not the Perps.

Romeo13 on July 17, 2007 at 10:25 AM

Oh, come on! We already know Patterico’s position on this. And when he starts out with the implication that a differing view is “ranting based on rumors and emotion” what do you expect?

Blake on July 17, 2007 at 10:27 AM

Hmmm…ok. Fire and prosecute this worthless POS Sutton for granting unconditional immunity for a Mexican drug smuggler to lie about U.S. border enforcement officers in their criminal trial.

Free Compean and Ramos (!) on a prosecutorial malfeasance motion!

Jaibones on July 17, 2007 at 10:30 AM

Oh, this is going to be a fun thread.

Slublog on July 17, 2007 at 10:09 AM

Not any more, ya whiner.

Jaibones on July 17, 2007 at 10:31 AM

Not any more, ya whiner.
Jaibones on July 17, 2007 at 10:31 AM

Whiner?

Slublog on July 17, 2007 at 10:33 AM

Excellent post at Patterico’s, btw. Very fair.

Slublog on July 17, 2007 at 10:38 AM

Allegation: THE GOVERNMENT WITHHELD CRUCIAL EVIDENCE FROM THE JURY.

Response: The prosecution did not withhold any admissible evidence from the jury. The prosecution provided the defense an opportunity to see the government’s evidence before trial. This is standard operating procedure. The trial judge ruled on a number of evidentiary issues during trial, and excluded evidence that was not relevant or admissible under the Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure and the Federal Rules of Evidence, which govern all federal trials. Those rulings are subject to review on appeal by the Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals and the United States Supreme Court. This procedure is what distinguishes a trial at law from a street fight or free-for-all. Deciding guilt or innocence according to established rules is what makes this a civilized country.

Has merit, but explains why justice is a crapshoot. Lawyers are very skilled in manipulating what evidence the jury sees, and more importantly, what they do not.

RushBaby on July 17, 2007 at 10:41 AM

Blake on July 17, 2007 at 10:27 AM

And when he starts out with the implication that a differing view is “ranting based on rumors and emotion” what do you expect?

Or when he says…

She is somewhat more suspicious of the Ramos/Compean verdict than I am,

Hmmm, a drug smuggler with a 100lbs of pot and he didnt have a gun? B.S. To quote Glen Fry…

No matter if it’s heroin, cocaine, or hash,
You’ve got to carry weapons
Cause you always carry cash.

doriangrey on July 17, 2007 at 10:43 AM

I called up Senator Arlen Spectre’s office and asked that he do what he could do to help these guys. (Spectre is on the Judiciary Committee which is looking at this case.)

The woman who answered the phone had a strong Hispanic accent. My first thought was is Spectre hiring illegals to man his office, but it’s clearly “not proven.”

thuja on July 17, 2007 at 10:46 AM

In the 1980s millions of people who had broken the law were given a pass. Since then, millions and millions of people continued to break the law and were given a pass by local government, state government, federal government, and prosecutors, who exercised their discretion to also reward law breakers. However, now the same people who aided and abetted millions of crimes now want their pound of flesh from Ramos and Compean and we’re expected to shut up and go along with it. No, thanks.

Blake on July 17, 2007 at 10:49 AM

Thuja, thanks for sharing your dig at Specter’s receptionist. How about telling us what she said? Did you get through to the Senator?

RushBaby on July 17, 2007 at 10:51 AM

So, why wasn’t this prosecutor one of the US attorneys let go by Jorge Arbusto? Along with Patrick Fitzgerald?

Injustice is injustice. The BP agents should be pardoned, given their jobs back, and given back pay.

glockman on July 17, 2007 at 10:52 AM

I think Ramos and Compean deserve a new trial and should be freed on bond pending the new trial. Reasons ? Didn’t Aldrete Davila re-enter the U.S. sometime after the shooting bringing MORE DRUGS into the U.S.? Wasn’t that information withheld from the jury ? Also, what about the border patrol agent that knew Aldrete Davila, and phoned his family, suspicious ? These and some other reasons tend to make me think that the judge was less than fair and impartial to say the least.

2theright on July 17, 2007 at 10:55 AM

OK, they broke a law.

Sentence, commute, and pardon.

It’s not like they accused innocent men of raping a women, or hid $90,000 in their freezer, or awarded millions of dollars of bids to a husbands business…they shot at and wounded a criminal in the act of a crime. Then they did not follow procedure, hence my second sentence.

right2bright on July 17, 2007 at 10:58 AM

No big fish here, but the immunity deal smelled like one.

fogw on July 17, 2007 at 10:21 AM

To Sutton, the people protecting our country from invasion are the big fish (ie: greater evil that a drug smuggler)

DwnSouthJukin on July 17, 2007 at 10:59 AM

What circumstances dictate the type of immunity a particular witness receives? Is it dependent on the severity of the crime that person has committed versus what they provide for the government?, or are there some sort of guidelines prosecutors are obliged to follow?

Slublog on July 17, 2007 at 10:20 AM

In a word: yes. The rules for granting immunity are very flexible, and it all falls under the heading of “prosecutorial discression” – which is huge.

But there are precidents. In this case, the distinction between limited immunity and transactional immunity is very important.

It is unheard of to give a criminal defendant immunity FOR THE UNDERLYING CRIME in exchange for testimony about a police officer’s wrongdoing. If you think about it, it doesn’t make any sense: if the “dirty” copper sent this guy to jail, that should be MORE than enough incentive to testify against him. Of course you’d need to ensure the witness couldn’t dig himself a deeper hole by giving the testimony itself, but why on earth would you need to do him an additional favor to cajole testimony?

It looks like Sutton overstepped the bounds of reason in this case. Again, prosecutorial discretion allows a lot of leeway but in a political case such as this one, his motives should be reviewed.

If Sutton really did lie about which kind of immunity he gave, I see that as a pretty big deal – and so should the Bar.

logis on July 17, 2007 at 11:14 AM

I think the thing which really bothers me in all of this?

I want to give Bush the benefit of the doubt on the nonenforcment of border law… that hes just not doing anything positive to fix it….

But this is an active blow to border enforcment… they are more interested in going after the agents protecting us, than the Illegals and drug runners crossing the border…

Add in that poor Sheriffs Deputy who is also in jail… for shooting at the tires of a fleeing vehicle which almost ran him down??? And it appears that they are activly trying to make it impossible to enforce border law.

Romeo13 on July 17, 2007 at 11:17 AM

logis on July 17, 2007 at 11:14 AM

Thanks.

Slublog on July 17, 2007 at 11:17 AM

To me Sutton’s improprieties alone warrant a new trial.
There also seems to be some questions pertaining to the code that Ramos and Compean were prosecuted under.

Government’s evidence showed that they were not made aware that there had been a shooting. They learned about the shooting weeks or months after the fact.

And I would like to see discovery expanded and reexamined in this area.

This seems to be a case of over reaching with some political overtones.

Speakup on July 17, 2007 at 11:27 AM

Let’s see if we can’t derail an awful thread before it gets rolling. Ground rules: If you wish to challenge Patterico’s facts, please do so. If you wish to scream “FREE RAMOS AND COMPEAN! OPEN SEASON ON ILLEGALS!”, please do it somewhere else.

Just the facts, ma’ams. And sirs.

Allahpundit on July 17, 2007 at 10:15 AM

Fine. I seem to remember you blasting us as a bunch of conspiracy theorists in February for saying Ramos and Compean were innocent. Has your opinion changed?

PRCalDude on July 17, 2007 at 11:38 AM

Then there was thispost.
If you can’t believe the government has some very nefarious motives after shamnesty, I don’t know what will convince you.

PRCalDude on July 17, 2007 at 11:44 AM

Johnny Sutton will be entering The Laura Ingraham Show tomorrow at 10:15 am est…a great wooden horse will be rolled within the gates…

AJ @ Ingraham Show on July 17, 2007 at 11:53 AM

Thank you for posting this.

Duncan Hunter will testify at today’s hearing – 10AM EST
I will miss it, I hope that dear Patterico, or Bryan gets some clips; I want to see Sutton squirm like the bottom feeder that he is.

Let me get this straight, does AP want to censor our passionate cries for justice? I think we know the facts well enough to know that this was and continues to be a travesty.

C’mon down to S. Cal and stay a while AP, you might be able to see the truth, clearly, from the front line of the border war.

Christine on July 17, 2007 at 11:57 AM

AJ @ Ingraham Show on July 17, 2007 at 11:53 AM

Ahhhh defining moment!!!!! Laura will rip him a new orifice and do it in a professional fashion and with a legal mind!
Ingraham/ Malkin for POTUS/VPOTUS?

MNDavenotPC on July 17, 2007 at 11:58 AM

AJ @ Ingraham Show on July 17, 2007 at 11:53 AM

Heh heh if Johnny Sutton is the great wooden horse, then you can be sure that Laura Ingraham has her kerosene torch ready, and to quote Jack Nicholson as the Joker from the 1989 movie Batman

“It’s going to be a hot time in the cold town tonight.”

doriangrey on July 17, 2007 at 12:08 PM

‘If you can’t believe the government has some very nefarious motives after shamnesty, I don’t know what will convince you’.

You can find it, (the nefarious motives) hiding in the verbosity of spp.gov. The big boys want the North American Union and Dubya is their ’step and fetch it boy. It boils down to filthy lucre and political clout. The worst part is that it sets up Hilly’s Brave new World for her, before she conducts her coup.

Christine on July 17, 2007 at 12:08 PM

C’mon down to S. Cal and stay a while AP, you might be able to see the truth, clearly, from the front line of the border war.

If not, at least you can catch some rays. lol! Venga aquí!

Blake on July 17, 2007 at 12:09 PM

Christine on July 17, 2007 at 11:57 AM

C’mon down to S. Cal and stay a while AP, you might be able to see the truth, clearly, from the front line of the border war.

Heh heh, you do know that he would have to break out of the basement that Michelle has locked him in first right?

doriangrey on July 17, 2007 at 12:10 PM

Let’s see if we can’t derail an awful thread before it gets rolling. Ground rules: If you wish to challenge Patterico’s facts, please do so. If you wish to scream “FREE RAMOS AND COMPEAN! OPEN SEASON ON ILLEGALS!”, please do it somewhere else.

Just the facts, ma’ams. And sirs.

Allahpundit on July 17, 2007 at 10:15 AM

You seem kind of touchy on this. Do you think these two guys got what they disserved?

saiga on July 17, 2007 at 12:10 PM

C’mon down to S. Cal and stay a while AP, you might be able to see the truth, clearly, from the front line of the border war.

Heh heh, you do know that he would have to break out of the basement that Michelle has locked him in first right?

doriangrey on July 17, 2007 at 12:10 PM

No problem. All AP has to do is use his iPhone to call for…

Oh, wait…

logis on July 17, 2007 at 12:33 PM

No mention of Johhny Sutton fact sheet smear against Ramos? Calling him a spousal abuser? And no he was not Patrolman of the year, he was only nominated.

Johnny Sutton all class…

Theworldisnotenough on July 17, 2007 at 12:54 PM

Government’s evidence showed that they were not made aware that there had been a shooting. They learned about the shooting weeks or months after the fact.

Why does this all smell so much like Haditha to me?

I think every sensible person believes that our country’s guardians deserve the benefit of every doubt. Disagree all you want about the details, but any idiot can see this case obviously isn’t a slam dunk. Ergo, it should never have been brought.

Frankly, guilt or innocence doesn’t mean squat when national security is at stake. We need to focus on what’s important, and there is only ONE factor here that could adversely affect our national interest: We need accurate reporting from our agents.

But who is really causing America to be screwed over here?

What goes on at the border is a LOT different from handing out parking tickets. That’s literally “no man’s land.” Ask yourself this: Will watching this witch hunt of a trial make the average border guard MORE or LESS likely to spill his guts about every encounter?

I know for a fact what the answer was for US servicemen after Haditha. And like I said, I smell the same the same odor here.

logis on July 17, 2007 at 1:02 PM

In the last ten years how many smugglers with even 100 pounds of weed have been found to be unarmed?

The “facts” don’t pass the smell test.

TunaTalon on July 17, 2007 at 10:08 AM

I grew up in the same neighorhood (including next door neighbors) and I don’t know of any that are unarmed, even with carrying only a pound.

Tim Burton on July 17, 2007 at 1:11 PM

Let’s see if we can’t derail an awful thread before it gets rolling. Ground rules: If you wish to challenge Patterico’s facts, please do so. If you wish to scream “FREE RAMOS AND COMPEAN! OPEN SEASON ON ILLEGALS!”, please do it somewhere else.

Just the facts, ma’ams. And sirs.

Allahpundit on July 17, 2007 at 10:15 AM

You seem kind of touchy on this. Do you think these two guys got what they disserved?

saiga on July 17, 2007 at 12:10 PM

Let’s stick to the facts. Is this thread really awful? Give me proof.

From what I can see,

1. agent shoots at fleeing perp. As in many police encounters, agent says he thought he saw a gun. As in most such cases the truth of this can never be determined.

2. Agent, possibly understanding the President of the United States doesn’t want anyone stopped at the border (see J. McCain, Spectre et al), possibly knowing that others who returned fire in self defense were hung up to dry by press and politicos, possibly for such reasons decides not to report, since perp appears not to be shot – reasoning will remain unknown

3. Phone calls to Mexico, perp is massaged by politicos like lap dancer in Las Crosse rape case. Another unprovable, although sending a fishing expedition to find a victim is somewhat provable and fishy smelling too

He said-He said testimony from the scene is like any other police case, I side with the agent under innocent until proven guilty

Not reporting incident – should be handled according to department tules.

Tar and feathering the agent and kissing up to the drug smuggler – disgusting. Everyone should puke in unison at this PC attack except we are all puked out from the stealth amnesty PC attack on the entire nation Memorial Day week, which was followed by a one-two punch to the gut when the President tried to force the nation to eat amnesty.

It may be an awful thread but not indigestible

I called up Senator Arlen Spectre’s office and asked that he do what he could do to help these guys. (Spectre is on the Judiciary Committee which is looking at this case.)

The woman who answered the phone had a strong Hispanic accent. My first thought was is Spectre hiring illegals to man his office, but it’s clearly “not proven.”

thuja on July 17, 2007

My second thought: perhaps Spectre really is a puppet who looks like a Senator and you were talking to a string puller

entagor on July 17, 2007 at 1:28 PM

Why is shooting a drug smuggler crossing our border an imprisonable offense? How many different laws was Aldrete-Davila breaking when he was shot?

Damn you, Bush. Pardon these guys.

*Dubya mosies into the jail with his pistolas. “Free my men, Ramos and Compean. And if you got a problem with that, I’ll be at my ranch in Tejas.”*

Zach on July 17, 2007 at 1:37 PM

Sorry, AP. This is pure speculation.

Johnny-boy felt that he couldn’t get an easy conviction against the felonius narco-invader but he knew he could get one against these two patriots. Laws need to be reviewed to evaluate whether they allow prosecutors to seek easy convictions against easy targets, rather than against the real threats to the well-being of society.

urbancenturion on July 17, 2007 at 1:42 PM

This trial is nothing but about bending over for the Mexican government.

Blake on July 17, 2007 at 1:48 PM

For anybody who really wants to know details about this entire business, Patterico’s place has tons of posts including extensive reference material. Go study up for yourself, and you’ll find that Patrick not only is extremely fair about things like this, but he’s honest. The supposition that he takes the prosecutor’s side out of a knee-jerk reaction is unfounded. So is the idea that prosecutor’s seek the easy case rather than the correct case.

I’m not on Patrick’s side on this one, I believe that Ramos and Compean got jobbed bigtime. But I also believe that they exercised terrible judgement which allowed them to be set up for this railroading, and that’s too bad. They were prosecuted under a law that their actions did NOT violate (except in a very perverse through-the-looking-glass distortion of reality), and the laws which DIRECTLY and EXACTLY cover any misbehavior on their parts would never have called for a federal criminal prosecution of this magnitude. Bottom line, they were hung out to dry by a system feeling the PC pressure to prove that it wouldn’t hold “The Blue Line”.

Very Libbyesque, when all is said and done. They won’t get commuted by President Bush, however, because illegal immigration is something the president seems to think is ok, and pardoning these two agents would send a wrong signal to our “friends to the South”. Now that is a shame.

Freelancer on July 17, 2007 at 5:26 PM

I think the AG took the position they were going to screw these two guys because they were border agents and it would look good to the open borders crowd and the Mexican government. And, no, I don’t think Patterico is fair because there is nothing fair about sending these guys to prison.

Blake on July 17, 2007 at 6:35 PM

A criminal was shot in the butt while evading law enforcement. The prosecutor decided it was more important to prosecute law enforcemnt agents for misuse of weapon than it was to go after the original criminal, and gave them immunity to do so.

As a citizen does this make you feel safer? That is really all there is to it what is the point of making this so complicated? Who really cares what the burecratic procedures of ICE are or if they were followed.

Resolute on July 17, 2007 at 6:54 PM

It was the same office of USDA that prosecuted David Sipe for an incident involving Sipe (a BP) and an illegal immigrant who agreed to testify against Sipe. What did the 5th District Court of Appeals find? That Sutton’s office had withheld information from the jury and that the illegals who testified were given (as Congressman Poe says) not only the farm but the mineral rights as well.
Sipe has not only been found innocent by the 5th District, he has had his job reinstated and all back pay is to be paid to him. But six years of his life has been shot to hell.
And now there is another BP in prison over the adoption of his wife’s two orphaned neices and another BP that Sutton is going after, since Sutton is now finished with Gilmer Hernandez.

When is someone going to investigate Johnny Sutton?

retire05 on July 17, 2007 at 7:15 PM

I watched Mr. Sutton on Dobbs last night. I don’t like this guy and don’t trust his prosecution! When we get to the point of giving a drug dealer full amnesty for his testimony along with an open invitiation to cross our borders whenever he wants to…something is very wrong with Sutton’s case!

sabbott on July 18, 2007 at 8:52 AM

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