Historically, our wars have been fought by our military without interference from Congress that approved initiating military action. The role of Congress is not to legislate battles or retreats. Allied victories in WWII came YEARS after allied involvement following Germany’s involvement in Spain and invasion of Polland, and Japan’s imperialistic military invasions overtaking Asia. Once having declared war, Congress and the MSM AP then took no part in determining our military’s plans, strategies or tactics. Despite overwhelming US and internation deaths in battles and bombing raids, Congress and the MSM supported our nation’s united front against the enemy. THAT is the role of Congress and the MSM today, not just yesteryear. By playing devil’s advocate, they not only fail in their Constitutional duties, but by presuming the role of commander in chief as their own, Congress and the MSM perpetually wage war against the Constitution, our military and the American people. Congress is at war with America.

America has given Iraq democracy, whether or not the Iraqis utilize their opportunities for peaceful stability or not. If that is the reason for our involvement in Iraq, then Iraqis belong in Iraq for their freedom, not in the USA. Bush is certainly a most queer creature in his convoluted efforts, disquieting sober and thoughtful minds who realize the implications of his tactics. He wants to import a new Iraqi population into the USA to be awarded refugee status without our ability to discern terrorists within, furthermore, depriving Iraq of the very population needed for their stability.

Looking for consistency in Bush, one is troubled to note his persecution of the “grunts” on ground level left to implement national security. Note well the active federal prosecution to imprison our soldiers and marines in Iraq based on a proven MSM lie–totally fabricated story by a liar journalist; and witness our Southwestern States’ border patrol officers attacked by drug cartels being convicted on scurrilous charges by the drug dealer and prosecuted and judged by Bush’s bossom buddies.

If it stinks like a rat–follow the flies to the source.
It is as though EVERYTHING Bush commits us to is really just an ultimate set-up for disillusionment to destroy our faith in ourselves and our Constitution. I voted for Bush, both times. I’ve given Bush the benefit of the doubt. I defended Bush. But behind the scenes, Bush consistently sabotages and sets up imprisonment of those who actually FACE our enemy in hand to hand combat. I appreciate that our finest are held up to a high standard. But twisting evidence in prosecutional procedures throws whatever point Bush wants to make right back in his own face.

The MSM also hones its skills to infringe Constitutional rights, fabricate stories for their own purposes, and create tempests in teacups for our consumption–as though we don’t see through it all.

All –Congress, Judicial, Executive, and the MSM– lead toward further infringement upon OUR civil liberties, and the demise of our Constitution and our nation. Presented with death, our eyes are opened.

IN GOD WE TRUST
E PLURIBUS UNUM

anyway, I guess we should’ve left in power a regime working with and harboring terrorist.

If we did, we would have applied to Saddam the same leeway we give Libya, the same leeway we give Iran, the same leeway we give Saudi Arabia, the same leeway we give Syria, etc.. all nations connected to, supporting, and giving aid to terrorists.

By invading Iraq all we did was remove the plug in the boat that was holding back all the islamists from running amuck in Iraq, islamists that were Saddam’s concern instead of being ours now. Now the boat is sinking.

I’m no liberal, but I’m not sure you can civilize “those People” either

What is frequently ignored in the civilizing of “…those People…” or any other is this: a system of government (such as ours, USA) that enjoys peace and liberty is founded on a Judeo-Christian base. The inherent worth of the individual, basic fundamental rights, truth that is absolute, and laws that are ordained by God. Read the first line of the Declaration.

A system that treats half of their own population as property, and treats those who don’t subscribe to their beliefs as non-humans who deserve no protection under law, is incapable of sustaining a free system of government.

jihadwatcher on July 17, 2007 at 3:25 PM

way to drink the kool-aid, a majority of the fighting in Iraq is because Al-Qaeda and Iran/Syria are filtering in IED bombers to cause problems. we just caught someone smuggling over 200 suicide vest from Syria into Iraq.

anyway, I guess we should’ve left in power a regime working with and harboring terrorist. A regime connected to the first WTC attack, had terrorist on his govt. payroll including the worlds most notorious before bin laden rose to fame on 9/11.

sometimes there are no good answers, AQ, IRan/Syria and other radicals are proving with their actions we struck them in the right place.

We are there to keep the whole world from going to Hell in a handbasket. And nobody ever said that job has to be fun.

logis on July 16, 2007 at 5:23 PM

Good point.

Double out####ing standing comment!

if Democracy is not possible with majority Islam ruling nation, then what should we have done?

What made Iraq not descend into sectarian civil war during Saddam’s long reign was the use of brutality to suppress the islamists. It worked. Nobody so much as fired a gun in Iraq without Saddam’s approval. He, as bad as he was, indeed, because he was so bad, is what kept the country stable. Bush, being the rube he is, removed him. Once he did, nature in the arab world took its course. Shia fight sunni, clan fight clan, until the strong man wins.

The only thing the US should do now is find another Saddam and make him a puppet. Fighting in Iraq does nothing to stop muslims from taking up jihad in America, as we continually see. The muslims are already here. We invite them in. They are in our midst by the millions. The mosques are allowed to be built and financed by Saudi money. Hate speech is allowed to rain down with thunderous applause. Bush and his cronies even pay homage to this mosques by sending representatives to cower under hajib. Then there is the money we give to the Saudis for oil, money that is used to train pilots to knock down our buildings. And on and on the corruption goes.

Bush talks about “fighting them there so we don’t have to fight them here”. What a ridiculous meme. The terrorists and their ideological and economic foundation already exist in America and yet Bush does nothing to address this. Instead he spends your tax dollars, hundreds of billions thus far, to build a nation for ungrateful muslims and islamists abroad in order to prop up his geopolitical folly.

The muslims that will attack us, already live here, have student visas, or in many cases, were born here. And the ones that don’t fall into those categories, can come across the Mexican border, a border he refuses to secure. Numerous reports of al qaeda agents coming into the US through latin America bother him not. Slightly cheaper lettuce is more important.

We will be attacked again in a big way. And the perpetrators will not be insurgents in Iraq. They will be muslims, most likely native born, recent immigrants, and most likely from Saudi Arabia as 15 of 19 were on 9/11.

So much for fighting them there so we don’t have to fight them here.

We all no its impossible in this day to do the Ann Coulter plan, but I think you can try to create an environment were her plan could prosper with missionaries moving in.

I’m pretty sure she wasn’t advocating that the US government do it. If the American government tried to impose its religion (Gaism) upon the Middle East, that would result in a catastrophic mess. But if Christian evangelists and Buddhist priests want to offer their services, that could only be an improvement.

Of course there is one tiny little snag with that plan. The solution may not be easy, but it’s ridiculously simple: brutally excise the part of Islam that says you’re supposed to kill infidels and heretics. We all know that has to happen eventually, no matter what.

And once it does, I suspect we’ll quickly find out that’s the only thing that Islam was ever based on.

jihadwatcher on July 17, 2007 at 7:33 AM

I understand the islam problem and all, but what would you have done? First taking out Saddam and sons is a separate issue from letting them choose to build a democracy.

if Democracy is not possible with majority Islam ruling nation, then what should we have done? We all no its impossible in this day to do the Ann Coulter plan, but I think you can try to create an environment were her plan could prosper with missionaries moving in.

I don’t care if they have democracy or not, I just care about our interest there and a nation that supports terrorism(operationally, financing and harboring wise) is not in our interest. Iran seizing the south of IRaq is not in our interest. The flow of oil out of the region being halted is most definitely not in the worlds interest. Right now we are the barrier between these things happening.

History may be repeating…neocon…neocon…neocon…neocon…neocon…neocon…neocon…would become known as “Defeatist Criminals.”

FeralCat on July 17, 2007 at 7:58 AM

I kinda missed the “history” part of that history lesson there, but yes. Liberals do want this war to end in precisely the same way that Vietnam ended: totalitarianism, genocide, and an expanded base of operations for America’s enemies. Complain all you want about the way that LBJ Nixon Bush is handling the war, but surrender would again be a giant step backward for America’s interests.

Seriously, though. I know it’s painful, but re-read everything the guy wrote there. There is not a single word in there about what would actually, physically, HAPPEN if America pulled its troops out; all he talks about is how incredibly vindicated he would FEEL about it all.

I know we constantly whine about Communism this, or IslamoFascist that; we try to draw lines between what the terrorists do and what their propagandists say… They may use different rationalizations and different methods. But at its heart there is really only one enemy: It’s what Ayn Rand called “subjectivism.”

Fast forward.

Iraq nation building occupation ends with American troop withdrawal:

Faced with an ineffective Iraqi government, continuing hatred between Sunnis and Shiites with no end in sight, fatigue and deteriorating morale among the over used and abused American troops who were placed in between waring infidel hating Muslims, resistance to continue the war on the part of the American people and a rebellion in Congress with a threat to cut off funding, a reluctant President George W. Bush finally agreed to bring American forces home.

The failure of the Iraqi war supporters to admit that President Bush’s Iraqi nation building occupation policies had been ill advised and a profound failure would have a huge impact on their psyches and its impact would be manifest in their desire to involve the American nation and it’s military in yet another war and nation building occupation that they felt could be won this time thus bringing them vindication.

Many Neocon internet web sites and Neocon radio talk shows would support the false idea that President Bush’s Iraqi nation building occupation policies had been going very well and with just a little more time and just a little more surging and just a little more stay the course the Iraqi nation building occupation would have resulted in the building of a successful democratic, rule of law Iraqi nation that would be an ally in the war against terror and serve as a shining example for the rest of the Middle East.

They believed that President Bush’s Iraqi nation building occupation policies had been visionary and brilliant and would have soon succeeded, except for being betrayed at home, the infamous ‘Stab in the Back’ theory.

This ‘Stab in the Back’ theory would become hugely popular among many Neocon internet web sites and Neocon radio talk show hosts who found it impossible to accept the fact that President Bush’s Iraqi nation building occupation policies had been an unmitigated disaster.

During the actually Iraqi nation building occupation fiasco, many Neocons became obsessed with this idea, especially laying blame on what they called “defeatist cut and runners” and “surrender monkeys” in America for undermining the Iraqi nation building occupation effort. To the Neocons, and so many of their followers, the American congress men and women and other Americans who did not support President Bush’s Iraqi nation building occupation policies would become known as the ‘Defeatist Criminals.’

Out####ing standing!

Indeed, this “war” is being fought with a terribly deranged yet oh so classically typically liberal and wilfully ignorant mind set. Wilfully ignorant about the nature of humanity. Uneducated, unenlightened, and uninterested about knowing the ugly truth.

If I didn’t know better, I’d say it was Jimmy Carter in charge of this war.

That is why we are losing.

In Germany and Japan after WWII, we got away with dismantling the miitary because of an efficient and relatively ‘clean’ police force in both countries–somethihng missing in Iraq. So we dismantled the Iraqi military, and nothing was there to hold the country together.

Janos Hunyadi on July 16, 2007 at 10:57 PM

You have to remember that the liberals see the Marxist-Stalinist system as a GOOD thing.

The military; tax collectors; dog catchers; truant officers… the entire infrastructure was a single, centrally-controlled monolithic entity. The pinnacle of organizational efficiency.

To liberals, Saddam’s Iraq was all one big happy family. And the Evil Capitalist Pig-Dogs had to go and break it all up!

July 15, 2007, 10:47 PM (GMT+02:00)

It is from DEBKA which has a mixed bag of calling things.

Take this for whatever you think that it is worth.

It’s a Sad Reality in many countries that as corrupt and inefficient as the military is, all other national institutions are worse

In Iraq the Baathists were hated and feared, but the army itself–once you got away from Saddam’s SS-modeled Reputlican Guard–the army was more competent and as respected as any other part of Iraqi society

In Germany and Japan after WWII, we got away with dismantling the miitary because of an efficient and relatively ‘clean’ police force in both countries–somethihng missing in Iraq. So we dismantled the Iraqi military, and nothing was there to hold the country together

That was the Mother of All Mistakes, and it will take a while to correct it. The defeated Axis powers also did not have the regional and sectarian divisions that Iraq does.

The American military in Iraq has thus needed to be All Things to Nearly Everyone, and despite the ‘Civilian Oversight’ mistakes has done a brilliant and courageous job.

They need more time, and less civilial meddling; I’m beginning to doubt that they will get either

Pulling out now would be like ending WWII just before ‘Strawberry’ found those four Jap carriers, right where Nimitz guessed they’d be

But I think Bush’s biggest mistake is selling the public on the idea that helping Iraqis be happy is the REASON we are there. It’s not. We are there to keep the whole world from going to Hell in a handbasket. And nobody ever said that job has to be fun.

logis on July 16, 2007 at 5:23 PM

bingo, the public is absolutely clueless about whats going on and how we got there. Thanks to dems/media lying and their own laziness on the subject.

Gotta love Peter Pace. I’d love to hear your take on it, here or in a standalone post.

This is exactly the right position in my view.

By my rough calculations, until about 3 days before time itself comes to an end.