If by “out of the heat” you mean they aren’t still flying CAS missions, I’m willing to bet you’re in error. Likely, it’s more Air Force than Navy, but I’m sure the Army and Marines still call their brethren-in-blue on occasion (Navy-blue or Air Force-blue, whoever is flying cover for them that day). The Marines are a top-notch, all around, kick-ass, forced-entry branch of the military; but they still require “off-hull” support (as us Navy pukes call it) to sustain themselves for any decent length of time. The Army (kick-ass in their own right) cannot survive with just helicopter and limited A-10 CAS on a normal battlefield. Neither ground pounder segments of our armed forces has the aerial resources that I’d love to see them have. So they rely on assistance from Air Force and Navy to this day. And you know what? It works. Amazing as that may be.

The Air Force and Navy did their jobs. They prepared the “battlespace” in advance of and in conjunction with the ground advance. That’s what they do. Their job is not to win wars. It never has been. Nor will it ever be. Win “battles”, yes; but win a war? That takes boots on the ground. It is an absolute must to actually win in real (not theoretical) war. We can air-strike the crap out of any nation on earth, but winning a war against them would be impossible without the Marines and/or Army.

TBinSTL – “Why can’t we stage an attack on Saudi Arabia and make it look like the Iranians did it?…….”
Astronomers report that a large meteor is headed toward Earth. They are currently computing the likely coordinates of impact on Earth.
Coordinates of large meteor impact announced as 21°25′N 39°49′E / 21.417, 39.817
MB4 on July 16, 2007 at 1:53 AM

If America had the only astronomers on earth, that might work.

Why would all the Armor, much of which was “borrowed”, still be In Iraq? What would have been the point? You don’t need nearly as much armor for a police action/nation building/whatever as you do for an invasion.
MB4 on July 16, 2007 at 2:41 AM

On this, I’ll agree. I agree that the heavy armor is mostly just not there anymore. I imagine there are still a few M-1s in-country, but nothing like the levels to fight during the invasion. I’m confused by your “borrowed” statement, though. How does a nation who effectively declares war on another nation “borrow” the tools to wage said war from itself? If you mean re-deployment of assets from Germany, that was on the horizon anyway. The dipshit Euros think they can defend themselves against an increasingly hostile Russia, and if they have to trade a few of the newer entries to the EU to assure peace, they will fall all over themselves to do so. That means they don’t want us there anymore, so moving those garrison units to combat in the Middle East is not “borrowing.” It’s re-deployment. Unlike Murtha’s idea, it was re-deployment for effect.

I get that you don’t seem to like the Iraq war, MB4. Unlike others, I’m not going to attack your service record. I just want to point out that some of your arguments have holes. My time in the Navy taught me to think strategically as well as tactically. I’m starting to wonder if OJT in the Army does the same. Does the Army actually encourage “what if” thinking (which leads to the strategic level)?

OK so you have somebodies dd214, I’m just not buying it being yours.

If you were in the top 10% (I think it was) of your OCS graduating class (like Tommy Franks I’m pretty sure was) you were offered a commission in the Regular Army (which I think were limited by congress?), if you were NOT in the top 10% you got a commission in the Reserves, but there was really no difference.

If I told you where I was born, would you have a “magic question” to check that?

If I told you that I once lived in the DC area of Northern Virginia, would you have a “magic question” to check that?

If I told you what profession I was in, would you have a “magic question” to check that?

I think that you are putting WAY too much faith in your “magic questions”.

If I was going to “google” anything right now it would be for the official terminology of the logical error that you are making.

MNDavenotPC – “I’ll copy my DD214 here if MB4 will….. I’m just a humble non com”

I do not have the set up to photo copy anything “here”. If I did you would probably just say that I got it from someone else.

BTW, few noncoms are humble, wouldn’t be prudent.

You know, I have gotten into some pretty ridiculous “discussions” in my time, but this one is really taking the cake.

I dug out, God only knows why, my last dd form (1 jul 66) 214.

Sample lines (I am NOT going to key in the whole F###ing thing!):

line 4 ARMY – USAR – FA
line 5a Grade, rate or rank: CPT (see 30)
line 11a: Relieved from active duty.
line 11c: SectionXI & XX Ch 3 AR 635-100 SPN 619 Vol Req & DA Msg 281557z Jul 71
line 12: XXIV Corps USARPAC RVN
line 14:USAR CONTROL GROUP (REINFORCEMENT) USAAC St Louis MO 63132
line 20 Ft Sill OK
line 25:CIVIL AFFAIRS OFFICER CRS 5D-8105, 8 weeks, Ft Gordon GA (I had a secondary MOS. Is that OK?)
line 30: Item 5a: Temp CPT AUS, aptd 30 jun 71; Perm 1LT USAR, apt 30 Jun 71

That’s it for this ridiculousness!!!

PERIOD.

MB4 seems to be AWOL…maybe one of his non com’s saluted him on the battlefield…

Awe…whats the matter cant find it on google???

Still wrong, strike two, keep swinging…

Ask not for whom the bell tolls, it tolls for thee.

Nope, you just claimed to be an officer, which you obviously never were, or just like knowing what a gig line is you would have known the correct answer to that. It’s that basic to being an officer in the US Military.

And you are just plain full of shit.

It’s not like I said that I was a Starship commander!

Your logic is uncoordinated.

Back during “my time”, in the Army one could go to basic (2 months), AIT (2 months) then to an NCO version (”Shake and Bake”, 3 months?) that they had of OCS and then become a hard stripper E-5. Total 7 months from “E-0″ to E-5 hard stripper. There was some wait time between AIT and “Shake and Bake”, can’t recall how long, but I don’t think that it was very long, maybe just for the paper work to go though?