Civil war: Maverick mocks the Times’s painfully crappy Iraq editorial

posted at 2:58 pm on July 12, 2007 by Allahpundit

“They understand the purpose” of the war, he says of the troops he spoke with. “I wish I could say the same of our journalist friends in New York.” And with that bit of straight talk, ironically, the long love affair between Maverick and the media comes to a bittersweet end. And why not? With his campaign in tatters and his press fan club bound to support the Democrat even if he made it to the general election, he’s got nothing to lose. In fact, why not go the whole nine yards, take Bill Kristol’s and Ace’s advice, and suspend the campaign for three months the better to lobby on behalf of the mission in Iraq? It’ll get attention, it’ll reunite him with the base, it’ll remind people he’s a war hero and not just an amnesty shill, and if the Iraqi parliament surprises everyone and makes a deal, it’ll give him stature as the guy who wasn’t willing to quit when everyone else was. Roll the dice, Mac.

Click the image to watch.

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Although I disagree with Senator McCain on many issues, I honestly feel he believes he is doing his best for his country. Senator McCain is also not afraid to pose difficult questions and theories in the face of scrutiny. Not an easy thing to do (See democratic handbook once Iraqi war started to not go our way).

wcrego on July 12, 2007 at 3:13 PM

Zing! This speech = Solid Gold. Good on ya, Senator McCain.

RushBaby on July 12, 2007 at 3:15 PM

First thing I heard him say in weeks I could agree with…

Romeo13 on July 12, 2007 at 3:18 PM

Roll the dice, Mac.

He’s got nothing to lose really. You should send that idea up to his campaign.

BadgerHawk on July 12, 2007 at 3:22 PM

And with that bit of straight talk, ironically, the long love affair between Maverick and the media comes to a bittersweet end.

That soured quite a long time ago. The media were willing to forgive a lot for a fifth-column warrior. But when McCain refused to give up on this crazy War on Terror stuff, they had to draw the line.

Giuliani’s courting the media a lot better. They don’t mind too much that he brags about cleaning up AFTER a terrorist attack, as long as he downplays the “War” part of the War on Terror.

logis on July 12, 2007 at 3:31 PM

Like Bush, McCain is a person of Principles that trump Popularity.
Thankfully both of these leaders have more “conservative” hits than misses.
McCain will never be President in the normal course of events, but he will be able to face himself in the mirror to the end of his days: Portrait in American Courage.

Randy

williars on July 12, 2007 at 3:35 PM

McCain is spot on on the Iraq Issue.
His best line to date was tweaking the Dems for critizing Bush for invading without a post invasion plan while now they want to withdraw without a post withdrawal plan.

It’s hard for me to watch the Dems talk about Iraq while they assume that if the U.S.A. pulls out the killing will stop, Iran will stay out of the fray, and AQ will just go home.

TunaTalon on July 12, 2007 at 3:40 PM

Pretty sound political advice there AP.

Griz on July 12, 2007 at 3:40 PM

I can’t get myself to vote for McCain for Prez for a few good reasons. Selfishly, one of those reasons is that I think he is more valuable in the senate.

swami on July 12, 2007 at 3:46 PM

And with that bit of straight talk, ironically, the long love affair between Maverick and the media comes to a bittersweet end.

This is the whole huge paradox of McCain. When he’s off, he’s waaaaaaaaaay off, to the point that you completely write him off. But when he’s on, man I have to admit that there’s not many who’re better (this clip, his speech at the ’04 Convention). The problem is that we don’t see the “on” McCain nearly enough, and we see the “off” McCain way too much.

The base will forgive a lot these days if we percieve that someone’s going to be a strong leader. And if the “on” McCain were the one we see even 75% of the time… even 60% of the time… I doubt that his campaign would be on the verge of oblivion.

crazy_legs on July 12, 2007 at 3:49 PM

Forgive and forget; that’s what politics is all about.

And if McCain is the only candidate left with any understanding of what’s at stake in Iraq, then he’ll have my support very, very soon. Odd, that. I wanted him retired three weeks ago…

Jaibones on July 12, 2007 at 3:56 PM

“They understand the purpose” of the war, he [McCain] says of the troops he spoke with.

And does he or could anyone think that even the selected troops that he spoke with would be open about how they feel with him?

MB4 on July 12, 2007 at 3:56 PM

Bush and McCain are both sellouts to the greedy serf master employers of illegals in the United States and the ethnic cleansing elites in Mexico.

MB4 on July 12, 2007 at 3:58 PM

McCain is pretty old.

krabbas on July 12, 2007 at 4:03 PM

I’ll leave it to others to sing his praises. All I know is when he says “my friends”, it seems weirdly out-of-touch and creepy. For that matter, Romney has a bit of the weird factor going on too.

JiangxiDad on July 12, 2007 at 4:04 PM

This is good stuff.

Thank goodness someone is saying it other than us.

Hening on July 12, 2007 at 4:08 PM

MB4 on July 12, 2007 at 3:58 PM

And you, sir, are setting yourself up as a fine piñata.

RushBaby on July 12, 2007 at 4:11 PM

MB4, are you from this planet? Are you always so crabby? Are you always this unrealistic? Do you often make issues seem so much more important than they are in reality? Do you have hemoroids? Are you drunk? Do you always look on the negative side of things? Would you rather be blonde? Do you understand our military at all? Do you often discount another’s patriotism? Do you think those serving our military are stupid? Do you wear socks? Do you need a haircut? Have you a sinus headache? Have you ever served anyone other than yourself? Have you ever served our country? Do you often think negatively of those who serve? Do you wash your underwear or is that momma’s job? Have you ever swallowed your tongue? Did you know anything about the middle-east before yesterday? Do you often sweat? Bowlegged? Have you ever met anyone who has served our country? Have you ever read a book? Do you believe everything you hear Bill Maher say? Do you watch network news? Have you ever been out of country? Ever traveled to the middle-east? Often sneeze? Smell bad? Or whine?

In hindsight I guess all I’d have to do to answer my own questions is to read your posts since you got here.

Griz on July 12, 2007 at 4:15 PM

Oh… I forgot. Maybe you’re constipated?

Griz on July 12, 2007 at 4:17 PM

Dang, Griz! Let some of us have a few cracks at the new piñata!! LOL!

RushBaby on July 12, 2007 at 4:24 PM

A shame he didn’t defend the borders with such integrity.

How can you be for winning the War and losing the country?

profitsbeard on July 12, 2007 at 4:25 PM

Ah, MB4

In Dobbs We Trust, huh?

blackrepublican on July 12, 2007 at 4:40 PM

Maybe this guy should be in the White House. That would be one less Senate vote for shamnesty the next time around and other than Duncan Hunter he’s the best man person in the race on War on Terror issues.

bdfaith on July 12, 2007 at 4:43 PM

he has my primary vote.

jummy on July 12, 2007 at 4:46 PM

Is it just me, or does Senator McCain look really tired?

I agree with this speech, though I do not feel he is conservative enough for me to back for President.

He, at least, brings less shame on his military past than… pretty much any democrat with a military record.

RedKnight on July 12, 2007 at 4:49 PM

Every time I totally give up on McCain he gets something completely right. If he would have just supported the war and stayed away from Ted Kennedy on illegals he would still be in good shape. It is hard to support him however. Whenever he get something wrong it is a total disaster.

duff65 on July 12, 2007 at 5:01 PM

I will never vote for McCain. Any nation security speech he makes is pointless in juxtaposition to his stance on shamnesty and open borders. We must impose strength and common sense both at home and overseas. Having both of those is not too much to ask. A comprehensive strategy some might say.

Zetterson on July 12, 2007 at 5:02 PM

Griz on July 12, 2007 at 4:15 PM

Well Griz, top of the morning to you too. You have asked so many questions, you obviously like to be thorough, and I have to take a few work breaks now and then so I will take just enough time to answer a few of the more “interesting” questions from your litany. Not to imply that a litany is a bad thing, as I can tell that you are a man who likes to be thorough.

Are you always so crabby? Actually many think that I am often the life of the party!

Do you have hemoroids? No and I don’t think that I even know anyone who does unless I am causing you to have them.

Are you drunk? Not at the moment.

Would you rather be blonde [blond]? Actually I am sort of blond and I also have very blue eyes. I sure hope that you are not hitting on me big guy as it would never work.

Do you think those serving our [I am "assuming" that you meant in our] military are stupid? Not generally speaking, NO. Although I do think that, if you really insist on forcing it out of me, that their CIC is not exactly the brightest light on the tree.

Have you ever met anyone who has served our country? Well I did when I was taking basic at Fort Dix, NJ, does that count? I also did when I was taking AIT at Ft. Sill, Oklahoma, does that count? Also when I was taking OCS at Ft. Sill, Oklahoma, does that count? Also when I was at a fire base somewhat near DaNang in RVN, does that count? I sure hope that one of those counts or I guess I would have to change my answer and say no. Unless you count my dad and 8 uncles who served in WWII, but they may not count either.

Do you wash your underwear or is that momma’s job?

My mom is dead, but thanks for asking anyway. My father is still alive but he refuses to wash my underwear.

Have you ever been out of country? Well I have been to Canada, does that count? I have been to Vietnam, does that count? I spent 7 days in Bangkok, Thailand, does that count? I had so much fun there that you have just got to let me count that one anyway!!! Oh yes and a stopover at some airport in Japan on my way back from RVN. That probably should not count as we could only get off the plane for a short while to stretch our bowlegs.

BTW, I apologize profusely (I have a boss who is not very understanding and expects me to get some work done now and then)for the delay in responding to your kind inquiries. They were appreciated more than you could know.

Oh, it looks like I owe you another apology as I missed your very first question asking if I am from this planet. My parents both said that I was, but maybe you know something that I don’t.

Now I must apologize again as I really have to really really get back to work now. My not very understanding boss you know. I hope that you understand.

MB4 on July 12, 2007 at 5:09 PM

Well, I’d tell you who I’m voting for in the Primary, but as this isn’t approved media, I’m not certain of the current law’s time/media range, and I’m not positive how far away the next “election” is; I won’t.

Electioneering without proper disclosure is illegal and wrong, and even worse than removing the First Amendment of the Constitution (or so I’m told). And some would prefer to have money and influence removed from politics and would trade the First Amendment for it (or so the record of their statements show).

I will however allow you to take the previous snark and make a guess as to who it won’t be…

gekkobear on July 12, 2007 at 5:11 PM

That conversation must be candid and focused. Americans must be clear that Iraq, and the region around it, could be even bloodier and more chaotic after Americans leave. There could be reprisals against those who worked with American forces, further ethnic cleansing, even genocide. Potentially destabilizing refugee flows could hit Jordan and Syria. Iran and Turkey could be tempted to make power grabs. Perhaps most important, the invasion has created a new stronghold from which terrorist activity could proliferate.

The administration, the Democratic-controlled Congress, the United Nations and America’s allies must try to mitigate those outcomes — and they may fail.

1) Good on McCain for challenging this assinely dangerous self-contradicting editorial! (If he would act to repeal Campaign Finance “Reform,” I’d start listening to him more.)
2) The Times acknowledges that a US withdrawal would cause bloodshed on a massive scale, including genocide PLUS massive human displacement into refugee camps in other countries. Unbelieveable. Dump the whole mess into the uncapable hands of the UN. Taliban recruited their boys out of the chaotic UN camps along the Afghan border. Taliban in Africa recruit along the lawless zones of countries in or tettering on civil war (Sierra Leone, Liberia, now Ivory Coast). UN mismanagement of refugee camps in DRC Congo of Hutus allowed Hutus militias to terrorise the region. Remember, when US-backed Northern Alliance forces swept the Taliban out, while the UN was begging for more refugee camp resources,(just across the border in Pakistan) the refugees packed up and were gone back home before more supplies were delivered. The UN was left standing looking foolish. The refugees wanted to GO HOME! The human beings at the Times are so cold that they have no care to condemn other poeple to a lifetime in a nowheres-ville/noway-out existance? Doesn’t affect their comfortable lives and lattes.
The UN established the bizarro Palistinian “refugee camps” -limbo land, yet a lot better (real houses, buildings, electricity, water, stores)than a typical refugee camp anywhere else in the world. Legal, stateless limbo. The Sihks got brutally booted out of Pakistan, but settled in areas like New Delhi and started over. There isn’t a Sikh in a refugee camp. The Prime Minister of India was born in what is now Pakistan, but he’s made something of himself – no refugee camps to hold him back. He’s Prime Minister Manmohan Singh of India. They lost just as much as any Palestian, but the Sikh population moved on and made it elsewhere.
The Times admits it’d be HELL and chaos. It’s tough in certain parts of Iraq, but what the Times describes and predicts on a US departure would be WORSE. Hugely worse. Yet, they advocate the worse of the two. Jaw-dropping. It’s not even a case of the devil you know, versus the devil you don’t … it’s trading everything in FOR the Devil.
3) With this incredible argument, what about the arguments that the US should have stopped the genocide in Rwanda? (muffled criticism from the Left, because it was Clinton in charge – he just mealy-mouthed later for doing nothing – as if the dead Rwandans were just some female he’d stood up on a date). Out of sight, out of mind.
4) Does this editorial mean that Times has abandoned the Left’s Darfur fraud? Remember? That USA should step in to stop the genocide? That we have a moral duty to stop the killing of defenseless people from … Muslim overlords who want to take their oil wealth? UH, OH! Darfur … Muslims on Muslims … Arabist on Blacks … sharia law … poor villagers… oil wealth … exploitation …
Maybe Darfur has more nuances the size of billboards than the New York Times and the Left can handle.
Moral authority of the Left on view in all its ugly.
Death follows them everywhere.

naliaka on July 12, 2007 at 5:13 PM

Oh… I forgot. Maybe you’re constipated?

Griz on July 12, 2007 at 4:17 PM

Well Griz, you just got your answer.

RushBaby on July 12, 2007 at 5:13 PM

The Maverick needs to get angry and publicly take his 7 turncoat Republican colleagues to the woodshed.

georgej on July 12, 2007 at 5:13 PM

It’ll get attention, it’ll reunite him with the base, it’ll remind people he’s a war hero and not just an amnesty shill

Huh? Wrong. He’s a pathetic double-talking loser and nothing he does now will change that opinion in most of our minds. He was NEVER a valid candidate with the base.

Gregor on July 12, 2007 at 5:17 PM

Oh just one more thing before I really really really have to go. You guys have given me such a warm and hospitable down home welcome that I will share with you my ditty on George Bush.

On second though maybe I will save that for another day and share my little ditty on John Edwards or my little ditty on Ted Kennedy instead.

Let me toss a coin.

- drum roll -

Oh look, it came up John Edwards!!!

Hi. My name is Johnny Reid Edwards former Senator from the Great State of North Carolina (actually I don’t think North Carolina is so great and never did, but my advisers have said that I should say that). You can just call me John if you want. I was born on June 10, 1953, although people tell me that I look at least 25 years younger.

I was the very first person in my dirt poor family to attend college. I earned my law degree from the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. It was a great accomplishment as I was so poor that I had to work 8 different part time jobs to pay for my tuition and just barely enough food to survive.

After getting my law degree I immediately went on my noble mission to save hundreds of victims of gross corporate negligence and gross medical malpractice. When necessary to win a case to help the poor victim that I was representing I would even feel the presence of dead people inside me, talking to me and through me to the members of the jury. If you don’t think that takes a lot out of a man, just try it sometime. I also split the settlement very fairly with my clients. I was VERY generous to them – 5% for them, 95% for me. More than fair. I mean I was the one who had to channel the dead, wasn’t I!!!

If I do say so myself I am so cute that you just can’t believe it! I have such great hair! I am also very boyish looking in a good way, not in a gay way at all. Did I mention that I have GREAT HAIR!!! Sometimes I think my great looks are almost a curse.

I sometimes like to chill out after a long day of campaigning to save America by eating at Wendy’s. I also like to spend some time at home sprucing up around my modest and humble house. I also like to spend hours in front of the mirror combing my hair. Wouldn’t you too if you had such great hair!!! BUT THAT DOESN’T MEAN THAT I AM GAY!!! NOT AT ALL!!! In fact I HATE gays, just don’t tell Elizabeth, OK. Contrary to what some of my very few enemies say I never spend more than $399 on haircuts. That $400 on a haircut is a damn lie, as it included a very generous $1 tip.

I would like to think that I am open minded, honest, polite and straight. And I appreciate the same qualities in others.

Who I’d like to meet:
…other bloggers who grew up in poverty. People who like to help the poor. People with great hair so that I can comb your hair and you can comb mine. It’s going to be great!!!

No gays though. They make me feel icky!!!

MB4 on July 12, 2007 at 5:22 PM

MB4 on July 12, 2007 at 5:09 PM

MB4 on July 12, 2007 at 5:22 PM

Very nice MB. You’ve provided me with a very reasonably priced happy hour. Carry on sir. /

My only concern; no need to apologize. Consider that your daily STRATCOM communication.

Griz on July 12, 2007 at 5:59 PM

MB4, thanks for the levity. Made my day. Hope your boss understands.

dedalus on July 12, 2007 at 6:01 PM

Being new to this forum stuff I went to Wikipedia to find the meaning of ‘troll’ as follows:

From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll

A troll’s main goal is usually to arouse anger and frustration among the message board’s other participants, and will write whatever it takes to acheive this end. One popular trolling strategy is the practice of Winning by Losing. While the victim is trying to put forward solid and convincing facts to prove his position, the troll’s only goal is to infuriate its prey. The troll takes (what it knows to be) a badly flawed, wholly illogical argument, and then vigorously defends it while mocking and insulting its prey. The troll looks like a complete fool, but this is all part of the plan. The victim becomes noticeably angry by trying to repeatedly explain the flaws of the troll’s argument. Provoking this anger was the troll’s one and only goal from the very beginning.

Now compare the definition above to this:

Bush and McCain are both sellouts to the greedy serf master employers of illegals in the United States and the ethnic cleansing elites in Mexico.

MB4 on July 12, 2007 at 3:58 PM

Hmmmmmm.

TunaTalon on July 12, 2007 at 6:12 PM

Hmmmmmm.

TunaTalon on July 12, 2007 at 6:12 PM

Yep.

Hey, how come SPAIN never gets the blame for their colonial legacy? US didn’t colonize the Central and South. It isn’t American-decendent elites running the show.

naliaka on July 12, 2007 at 6:27 PM

Troll?

Hey you have to admit that I knocked Silky Pony pretty good too.

Want some Teddy?

Some of you seemed to appreciate my John Edwards one so I will give you my Teddy MySpace type ditty one at no xtra charge.

Hi there fellow bloggers. My name is United States Senator Edward Moore Kennedy from the Great State of Massachusetts. You can call me Ted if you want. I was born on February 22, 1932, although people tell me that I look at least 20 years younger.

I graduated from Harvard in June 1956 in the top 10% of my class. I also passed my law bar on my very first try.

I am one of the most senior members of that grand and much loved and respected institution known as the U.S. Senate. All my colleagues respect me and very often come to me for my wise council and advise. I must admit though that when some of those RINO type of Republicans ask me to turn around and pull my pants down so that they can kiss my rosy red Irish a$$ it does get a little much, but it’s very gratifying anyway!

In fact I am so powerful now that I am, in many ways the defacto President of the United States. How’s that for a boy who had to work his way through college?

I am handsome and tall with a muscular build. The ladies just can’t get enough of me. Sometimes I think it is almost a curse.

I sometimes like to chill out after a long day of serving the American people by having a double martini. Contrary to what some of my very few enemies say I never have more than one drink at a time. Well sometimes one for each hand, but that’s it, never two glasses in each hand, except on special occasions like the arrival of 6PM.

I am a lot of fun after work. I am an excellent driver and sometimes I like to go on long drives and see how many bridges I can cross without getting wet. It’s a lot of fun! All the women tell me that I am just too much!

I would like to think that I am open minded, honest, polite, and trustworthy. And I appreciate the same qualities in others.

Who I’d like to meet:
…other progressive bloggers. People who like to rock out. Cool people who live close to Washington D.C. so that we can get together, take all our clothes off, paint 666 on ourselves, and run around stark naked and have a whole lot of fun.

MB4 on July 12, 2007 at 6:53 PM

TunaTalon – “The troll takes (what it knows to be) a badly flawed, wholly illogical argument… … … …

Now compare the definition above to this:

Bush and McCain are both sellouts to the greedy serf master employers of illegals in the United States and the ethnic cleansing elites in Mexico.”

Actually at the risk of getting folks riled up again, I do not see that as a badly flawed, wholly illogical argument, in fact not at all.

I most certainly do believe that the CIR/amnesty was a sellout by Bush and McCain, and KYL and Graham and Kennedy and a lot of others. Maybe I should say attempted sellout as it did not work, although our borders are still basically wide open and those who employee illegals, rather than paying a otherwise market wage to Americans, are still getting away with it.

There are a whole lot of other conservatives who feel the same as I do too. Many may not but it as sharply as I do, others even more sharply.

If you really want to see some conservative take no prisioners with regard to Bush and McCain, particularly on this issue just stop by the conservative blog site http://www.polipudit.com and look for a thread on the subject.

MB4 on July 12, 2007 at 7:13 PM

S/B http://www.polipundit.com

MB4 on July 12, 2007 at 7:14 PM

Sad that McCain would deliver such a stunning speech after he shot his own campaign in the base by taking the McCain Kennedy amnesty show on the road, not to mention the McCain Feingold travesty. This is the McCain that many of us could see ourselves voting for if it wasn’t the same McCain who was also part of the gang of 14 and a shill for the open borders contingent. Personally I can’t figure out where McCain really is on anything including Iraq and I ruled out voting for him a long time ago.

Buzzy on July 12, 2007 at 7:16 PM

See this is McCain at his best. Sadly, he wasn’t or hasn’t always been at his best recently. But this was the type of thing that got him noticed in 2000. Shamnesty broke the deal for me though.

PowWow on July 12, 2007 at 8:12 PM

Buzzy,
I belive that John McCain is an honest man.
Honestly wrong on immigration.
Honestly wrong with Fiengold.
Honestly right on Iraq.
Honestly right about the sweater.

His statement a few weeks ago that a stressed military is bad, but a defeated military is worse needs to be heard everywhere.

Did I mention that an honest man can’t be elected President?

TunaTalon on July 12, 2007 at 8:15 PM

Let’s give John McCain a lot of big credit for standing strong with intelligence on Iraq. I know I appreciate it. My older son is a U.S. Army First Lietenant (with Ranger tab) serving as an infantry platoon leader in Iraq. The current defeatism angers me beyond words, so John McCain’s words resonate with me.

I do respectfully ask that John McCain follow Bill Kristol’s advice. This one is critical.

Phil Byler on July 12, 2007 at 9:07 PM

Actually at the risk of getting folks riled up again,..

MB4 on July 12, 2007 at 7:13 PM

And does he or could anyone think that even the selected troops that he spoke with would be open about how they feel with him?

You can bring it with the immigration-bs MB4. But as for me, whether you served in the RVN or not, you’ll get a rise out of me anytime you put our troops in a bad light or try to speak for them. That’s a pretty ridiculous notion when you think of it. Sittin’ here trying to second guess those serving. I thought I took it pretty easy on you considering your breach was perceived as unintentional. You really should consider those in Phil’s shoes as well when you want to put words in the mouth of those in risk. It’s a different war and a different time in a different Army sir. Other than that have fun. I think we might have a good time.

Griz on July 12, 2007 at 10:20 PM

Again…

to quote myself, “We won’t leave there while your grand kids are alive.”

–Thats not to say you shouldn’t talk the notion of leaving there down.. but rest well tonight in that belief.

amend2 on July 12, 2007 at 10:51 PM

What’s with this “Mr. Bush” crap? That’s President Bush to you, you traitorous twats. Good heavens!! And we’ve got Helen Thomas, who probably spends the first hour of her day trying to find her freaking teeth, saying to the President of the United States, “Do you understand. . .?” Man if he were Hitler she’d have a concentration camp all her own. President Reagan whipped these guys sorry butts into shape. He had them so well trained that they started all wearing red ties to the press conferences because it was Nancy’s favorite color. I wish Bush had just said to Helen Thomas, “That was completely inappropriate Helen. You’re excused for the year. Nobody who wants to ask me a question talks to me like that, understand? Got it Mr. Gregory? I may be a lame duck, but I am still the commander and chief of the greatest nation in the world and don’t any of you clowns forget it. Now, would anyone like to ask me a question? Properly?” Sound like a dad talking to a six year old? That’s about it. The press are a bunch of children, the Dems are definitely children, whining usually, lying whenever they think it will get them what they want, and throwing tantrums when they don’t get their way. Some of the Republicans are kids, too, the kind who change loyalties on a dime, depending on which kid has the toy they want to play with. There are a very few grown-ups on the scene these days. Liebs is one. Duncan Hunter. President Bush can be one, but he’s too often like the teacher who think that the secret to success in the classroom is to the pupils’ best friend. WRONG!!! I’m beginning to think this country is going to have to take one straight up the gut before it finally realizes what is going on here. And oh man, will the Dems have sawed off the limb they are currently standing on.

smellthecoffee on July 12, 2007 at 11:07 PM

MB4, we disagree on the troops, or the war, but you are a one funny person. Thank you for the effort and the laughs.

Can you please, in due time, do:

- Jimmy Carter
- Ronald Reagan
- John Kerry
- GWB
- Bill Clinton
- Fred Thompson
- Barack Obama
- Rudy Giuliani
- Hillary Clinton

Thanks ahead. Sincerely much appreciated.

Entelechy on July 12, 2007 at 11:16 PM

wish Bush had just said to Helen Thomas, “That was completely inappropriate Helen. You’re excused for the year. Nobody who wants to ask me a question talks to me like that, understand? Got it Mr. Gregory? I may be a lame duck, but I am still the commander and chief of the greatest nation in the world and don’t any of you clowns forget it. Now, would anyone like to ask me a question? Properly?” Sound like a dad talking to a six year old? That’s about it. The press are a bunch of children, the Dems are definitely children, whining usually, lying whenever they think it will get them what they want, and throwing tantrums when they don’t get their way. Some of the Republicans are kids, too, the kind who change loyalties on a dime, depending on which kid has the toy they want to play with. There are a very few grown-ups on the scene these days. Liebs is one. Duncan Hunter. President Bush can be one, but he’s too often like the teacher who think that the secret to success in the classroom is to the pupils’ best friend. WRONG!!! I’m beginning to think this country is going to have to take one straight up the gut before it finally realizes what is going on here. And oh man, will the Dems have sawed off the limb they are currently standing on.

smellthecoffee on July 12, 2007 at 11:07 PM

Can we print that a zillion times and mail it to the White House?

naliaka on July 12, 2007 at 11:18 PM

McCain might be Maverick but he’s the wimpy English cousin, Beau Maverick, not Bret or Bart. Goober Lindsey Graham is his pet donkey.

Frank Nitti on July 12, 2007 at 11:32 PM

Amen (to smellthecoffee)

Ernest on July 12, 2007 at 11:37 PM

Griz -”But as for me, whether you served in the RVN or not (Believe what you want to.) , you’ll get a rise out of me anytime you put our troops in a bad light (How did I put our troops in a bad light again? Putting Bush “in a bad light” (actually he has done a bang up job of that himself) is not the same thing AT ALL.) or try to speak for them (I have just as good an idea as you do as to what most of them are thinking. And if you think that they like going over there on repeated extended multiple tours trying to “nation build” with Muslim Sunnis and Muslim Shiites in Muslim Iraq, then I would say that I have a better idea. Just between you and me I also happen to have an “ear” if you will, in the right place at the right time to know more about how the troops feel than you or that I would know as well with out my “ear”. ). That’s a pretty ridiculous notion when you think of it. Sittin’ here trying to second guess those serving (I have been “second guessing”, if that is what you insist on calling it, not the troops, but Bush!!! You know the Commander Guy.). I thought I took it pretty easy on you considering (If I hadn’t been through worse I would have to have lead a pretty sheltered live :smile:) your breach (Breach? Not having the same opinion as you is a breach?)was perceived as unintentional. You really should consider those in Phil’s shoes as well when you want to put words in the mouth of those in risk (I am considering those at risk that is why I don’t want them getting killed or ending up with fewer body parts than they started with over there, year after year, on and on,for Infidel hating Muslims. If you somehow think that most of them want to stay there doing that then I don’t know what to tell you. They overthrew the regime, got Saddam and his two sons, found any and all WMD that could be found = VICTORY!!! Then Bush decided to go for his never ending Islamic “Nation Building” dream. They had a great victory and now Bush is ruining it.). It’s a different war (Every war is similar and different from every other war. Many things never change. This one now has even less support than Vietnam did.)and a different time in a different Army (Not that different. Not that different at all. I hope that was not an unintentional slur on those who served in RVN. One could interpret it that way, but I don’t think that you meant it that way.) sir. Other than that have fun. I think we might have a good time.(You seem like a descent enough chap, and I don’t question your motives, so I just don’t understand why we can’t debate the issues instead of debating me. I don’t like debating me,. I am really not all that interesting. The actual issues are though. Also it has taking me almost a half hour to two finger type this long whatever in. There is just enough light out to cut the grass!!!)

MB4 on July 12, 2007 at 11:49 PM

So one way to look at the GOP primary–who would be the best dad, who will kick butt up there in DC? We need that almost as much as we need a great policy maker. If you want to borrow from the “broken window” concept of policing, toleration of disrespect for the office of the president becomes the tip of a huge iceberg of disrespect for American institutions, generally. Does the NYT, for example, dare to publish the data-mining story if the president is kicking people’s butts all over Capitol Hill when they need it? Maybe so, but I wonder.

smellthecoffee on July 12, 2007 at 11:52 PM

without watching the clip, my first and only, thought is…

no, thanks

urbancenturion on July 12, 2007 at 11:53 PM

Entelechy – “MB4, we disagree on the troops, or the war, but you are a one funny person. Thank you for the effort and the laughs.

Can you please, in due time, do:

- Jimmy Carter
- Ronald Reagan
- John Kerry
- GWB
- Bill Clinton
- Fred Thompson
- Barack Obama
- Rudy Giuliani
- Hillary Clinton

Thanks ahead. Sincerely much appreciated.”

My head is spinning now from responding to Griz. Most of those I probably can’t do or not very good ones anyway. I can do a real good GWB, but a lot of folks here would get very mad at me again. Maybe I will do that latter. I can do some John Kerry. A sort of John Murtha. I can also do, although you did not list him, Vicente Fox, but that is kind of a switch back thingy.

I can do an Al Gore to the boiler plate of Superman.

I will do that now.

Coming up.

MB4 on July 12, 2007 at 11:58 PM

Able to guzzle more energy than dozens of normal men! Producing more hot air than a locomotive! Able to pile up carbon credits higher than a tall building in a single bound!!!

Look UP in the sky! It’s ChickenLittle! It’s FlyingSnakeOilSalesman! It’s the Sultan of [hanging]Chad[s]! It’s a Bloated Balloon! It’s the Ayatollah of Heat! No, it’s CarbonMan in a jumbo private jet painted green with an internet connection that he invented himself!

CarbonMan, strange visitor from an alternate reality who came to Earth with claims and scary predictions far beyond those of mortal men, disguised as Fat Albert, and now joined by other members of the Royal Green League such as HummerMan and EcoCleaningWoman, they all fight a never ending battle for science-fiction, hypocrisy and the Hollywood way!

MB4 on July 13, 2007 at 12:00 AM

FWIW, my dream ticket would be Jeff Sessions/Tommy Franks.

MB4 on July 13, 2007 at 12:15 AM

Hi there fellow bloggers. My name is Cindy Sheehan. You can just call me Peace Mom if you want. I was born on July 10, 1957, although people tell me that I don’t look my age.

My heroes are Kim Jong Il, Ramsey Clark, Jimmy Carter,
Mahmoud Ahmadinejadin and Hugo Chavez, in fact I have a big crush on him.

I am very witty and am an expert diplomatic ambassador. I am also a frequent guest at Crawford, TX. Intelligent and multi-talented. Of course. Was there any doubt?

I am in a new relationship and completely in love. His name is Hugo Chavez, maybe you know him? I love attention. I would like to think that I would try almost anything at least once. Naturally, it depends on the situation.

I would like to think that I am open minded, honest, polite, and trustworthy, or at least that I can fool other people into thinking that I am once in a while. And I appreciate the same qualities in others.

Did I mention that I adore my new boyfriend Hugo Chavez? Yes, I LOVE HIM! Because of the long distance involved we have not been able to consummate our relationship yet, but we do have a lot of hot and steamy E-mail sex! I am now divorced and my son whats his name is long gone so I am as free as a bird!

Who I’d like to meet:
…other psyhco bloggers. People who like to peace out. Cool people who live close to Saint Elizabeth’s in Washington D.C., because I understand that is where I will be moved to before long.

MB4 on July 13, 2007 at 12:25 AM

MB4 on July 12, 2007 at 11:49 PM

MB4 on July 12, 2007 at 11:58 PM

MB4 on July 13, 2007 at 12:00 AM

MB4 on July 13, 2007 at 12:15 AM

MB you’ve got me smiling. You’ve invigorated my faith in America. Well done. I know how the troops feel but they haven’t appointed me as their spokesperson, yet. I’m of the opinion that if the left and the anti-war wingnuts had been silenced or at least not internationally promoted with 1000s of hours of free media, this 30 year war would be further along. Not pushed into a corner Bush would have performed differently. Not emboldened the jihadists would have functioned differently. Discuss, argue, debate all you want but there are few who know the positions and/or conditions we’d hold in this war if the country presented as a united front.

Within the current state of the NOT united front we currently present to the world we are only setting up the next stage of this war sooner than later. This next stage will be that of taking mass casualties and likewise inflicting mass casualties. As a united front there once existed an opportunity to postpone or delay this next stage at least 10 years. That’s my only problem with this so-called debate.

That being said, like you bring to light, nowhere exists a group of dumbass’ that could possibly replicate any worse performance than our own executive and congressional branches have the last 3 years. We agree the troops have taken the brunt of it. Many would appreciate some unity. Sometimes you can’t get there from here. Sometimes you can.

My indiscretions with the language only implys my effort to explain my reasoning and reaction. You said “Actually at the risk of getting folks riled up again,..” I was only explaining my own response. As your breach was triggering my feelings, not that of the world, the law, or a belief in fascism. Or any other exaggeration one could apply. I have nothing but respect for your beliefs and freedom to state them. I’d say we agree on dam near everything except your opinion on our troops belief in their work and their freedonm to state that belief to Mr. McCain. And our duty to support their beliefs. Sure they want to come home… and in 18 months some will be home. With the current state of worldly affairs there will be much larger fish to fry elsewhere.

Griz on July 13, 2007 at 1:11 AM

Griz and MB4, I’ve enjoyed your polite banter/discussion, especially the clarification of any potential miscommunications. I’ve just one objection: hindsight is 20/20. If you could go back four or five years, were you supporting the administration’s decisions then? Were the number of troops we took to Iraq sufficient in your opinions back then, but in hindsight, were not? What would you/should the administration have done differently, oh arm-chair generals of cyberspace?

I don’t think Americans wake up in the morning and say ‘wow, I sure hope we have to go to war today. Honey, pass the milk.’ But here we are, engaged in an interesting conflict in multiple locations with complex partnerships. A year from now you may be posting things like ‘of course the surge wasn’t going to work, anyone could’ve seen that coming. I can’t BELIEVE the POTUS pushed that initiative based on ‘principle’. What a joke.’ Or you may say ‘I knew that the surge would yield results if given time. And I applaud the Maverick for taking a stand against the defeatists and naysayers when he did.’ Who knows? But I’m certain our vision will be 20/20, making it a lot easier to laud the admin and the CIC for successes or criticize based on failure(s). It will be what it will be.

However…taking advantage of the 20/20 on a separate note: would you have believed on 1/1/07 that our forces in Iraq would, by mid-April, be fighting alongside the very same enemies with whom we’d been doing battle (see http://www.Michaelyon-online.com) against AQI? Would you have even guessed that the Pakis would take out a bunch of radicals, resulting in AQ calling for a Jihad against Musharref(sp?) et. al? And would you have imagined that AQI would even dare suggest that they’re ready to go to war, with IRAN????

President Bush noted in his Q&A session yesterday that it’s better to take it to them there than on our soil in the US. The NYT’s piece should come as no surprise~they’re yellah bellied. We should applaud McCain for his efforts, regardless of the shamnesty bill, to support the troops, support the war on AQ and terror everywhere, and frankly for his verbal smack-down of the NYT, IMHO.

Thanks for a moment of your time, but I gotta go. The boss just walked into my cube and he thinks I’m chatting on Yahoo…:)

Biffstir on July 13, 2007 at 2:39 PM

Biffstir I’ve always been of an opinion that war is serious business and it should be kill as many as often as possible until they surrender or are all dead. I realize that is an extreme position, but jihadists, communism, nazis’, imperialists are an extreme enemy. It’s my belief when dealing with these enemies in our recent war history we must be extreme. Our only successes have been when extreme measures were carried out. Our failures have come when moderation won out. So I’ve always held that as my opinion or the strategy I would recommend. But I’m not running the show and therefore I have supported those who are, from the beginning. They did not ask for my opinion. But I support theirs then and now. Blindly if neccessary. I know our boys charging the shorelines in WWII couldn’t have understood or gave a rats ass about strategy, but they carried out their orders and that’s what it takes to win a war.

Much of my ranting comes from my own experience in Bosnia and the middle-east and the guilt I feel from knowing in my heart that 911 and the war we’re now fighting was coming as sure as the sun rises but being completely helpless to warn or prepare my fellow citizens. Egotistical? Maybe. Unrealistic? Definitely. Alone with this knowledge? Absolutely not. But my guilt continues none-the-less. Maybe I’m not as stable as I should be in my elder years.

In short, to answer your question in abbreviation, I believe in killing the enemy, destroying their support system and their will. It will always come down to that one way or the other.

Griz on July 13, 2007 at 3:05 PM