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Bush to discuss Iraq progress at 10:30 White House presser; Update: Helen Thomas video added; Update: David Gregory video added; Update: Bush swipes (obliquely) at Armitage over Libby

posted at 10:32 am on July 12, 2007 by Allahpundit
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It just started. MM is liveblogging it; we’ll probably have a clip here afterwards. Here are the findings in bullet-point format in case you missed them in headlines last night. Some military progress, near-zero political progress.

Should be a barnburner. Meanwhile, I’ve got some updates coming. Standby.

Update: This was linked in the quote of the day last night but I’ll mention it again because it’s a must read. Why is a story about what the DCIA told the Baker-Hamilton group nine months ago appearing the same day that the Senate takes up withdrawal proposals? Hmmm.

Later that morning, around the same conference table, CIA Director Michael V. Hayden painted a starkly different picture [than Bush had] for members of the study group. Hayden said “the inability of the government to govern seems irreversible,” adding that he could not “point to any milestone or checkpoint where we can turn this thing around,” according to written records of his briefing and the recollections of six participants.

“The government is unable to govern,” Hayden concluded. “We have spent a lot of energy and treasure creating a government that is balanced, and it cannot function.”

Later in the interview, he qualified the statement somewhat: “A government that can govern, sustain and defend itself is not achievable,” he said, “in the short term.”

A CIA spokesman denied that he said any such thing but another senior intel official confirms that was the gist. More:

According to the written record and others in the room, Hayden at one point likened the situation in Iraq to a marathon. He said there comes a point in each race when the runner knows he can complete the challenge. But Hayden said he could see no such point in Iraq’s future.

“The levers of power are not connected to anything,” he said, adding: “We have placed all of our energies in creating the center, and the center cannot accomplish anything.”…

He compared the Iraq situation to the prolonged warfare in the Balkans. “In Bosnia, the parties fought themselves to exhaustion,” Hayden said, suggesting that the same scenario could play out in Iraq. “They might just have to fight this out to exhaustion.”

He also allegedly listed the threats to Iraq in this order: “the insurgency, sectarian strife, criminality, general anarchy and, lastly, al-Qaeda.” The military said yesterday that AQ is the principal threat, although according to a military intel report, they’re responsible for 15% of the attacks inside the country. Gen. Bergner reconciled those claims at the briefing:

“Al-Qaeda senior leadership does provide direction to al-Qaeda in Iraq,” Bergner told reporters. “They do establish and provide resourcing and support the network,” he added, noting that Zawahiri recently released a video seeking international recruits for the war in Iraq…

Bergner defended the focus on al-Qaeda in Iraq. “They are clearly the main accelerant in sectarian violence and the greatest source of these spectacular attacks that are killing innocent Iraqis in such large numbers,” Bergner said. “Their numbers are very small, but the effect is very large.”

AQ is responsible for 80-90% of the suicide bombings according to his best estimates.

Update: David Gregory’s asking him about Woodward’s report on Hayden’s testimony right now. Bush says he asked Hayden about it this morning and he claims his testimony was, and I quote, “a little more nuanced” than Woodward would have it.

Update: Aunt Bethany strikes early, calling for UN peacekeepers to get in their and do the job American troops apparently aren’t doing. Bush responds with the transparent nonsense about how he tried to avoid war by going to the UN, but framing it in terms of Saddam’s refusal to disarm only paints him into the WMD corner. If the point of the war was to create a model democracy for the Middle East, what sense does it make to say “I tried to avoid war”?

Update: Here’s Gregory’s exchange with Bush. The Anbar awakening figures prominently in the answer.

Update: The LA Times takes Senate Republicans’ temperature and finds plenty of support for a change of course among fencesitters but opposition to any timetable. Whether that’s because they’re sincerely worried about the consequences or whether they simply feel trapped by their past rhetoric, only they know. And speaking of past rhetoric, Boehner deploys a word usually reserved for Democrats to describe the GOP defectors. He’s not talking about us, is he, wonders Dick Lugar’s spokesman.

Update: It wasn’t all about Iraq this morning. Someone from WaPo asked him about the Libby commutation, to which Bush replied by noting what a shame it was that so many millions of dollars spent on investigations could have been saved if only, ahem, certain people had come forward sooner.

Update: The punchline to all this heavy breathing, says David Ignatius, is that a consensus has already emerged. It’s called Baker-Hamilton, and while it may be militarily disastrous, it’s politically do-able. Which is the important thing.

Exit question: Is it really politically do-able, though? Hmmm.


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Comment pages: 1 2

Geez, the media is all over the map on this one. No one has gotten their story straight:

CNN: 8 out of 16
The Iraqi government has met eight benchmarks satisfactorily, eight unsatisfactorily and has made mixed progress on two others, a new U.S. report has concluded.

AP: 0 out of 16
The Iraqi government has not yet fully met any of 18 goals for political, military and economic reform, the Bush administration said Thursday in an interim report certain to inflame debate in Congress over growing calls for a U.S. troop withdrawal.

BohicaTwentyTwo on July 12, 2007 at 10:41 AM

Whatever the Iraqi government does, we still have to kill jihadis.

They’re popping up in Iraq.

That’s as good a place as any to get rid of them.

Because we’re going to have to get rid of them somewhere, sometime.

Why not there, now?

profitsbeard on July 12, 2007 at 10:44 AM

Is that Cindy Sheehan with her hand up the backside of Helen Thomas?

yo on July 12, 2007 at 10:45 AM

‘War fatigue’…….is this his ‘malaise’ moment?

Limerick on July 12, 2007 at 10:50 AM

Report is here

bnelson44 on July 12, 2007 at 10:55 AM

Limerick-

The only people suffering “war fatigue” are anti-war journalists and their political pimps.

I see no sign of any impact of this war in America anywhere.

Only the soldiers asked to rotate more than twice should be allowed to even dare use such a term.

There’s no effect on the economy or populace in general. No rationing, no scrap drives, no nothing.

This is more fatigue with Bush’s inability to motivate and articulate his way out of a wet paper bag.

If we had a Churchill or FDR, the meaning of this war against resurgent Islamic imperialism would be understood and fought seriously, to win, globally.

Instead, we have President Mumbles kissing Saudis at his ranch and confusing everybody.

profitsbeard on July 12, 2007 at 11:04 AM

I hope I never meet David Gregory face to face. I nearly threw my TV out the window in disgust.

FireFly on July 12, 2007 at 11:12 AM

FireFly on July 12, 2007 at 11:12 AM

I hope I never meet David Gregory face to face. I nearly threw my TV out the window in disgust.

Glad to see that you restrained yourself, no sense cutting your nose off to spite Mr. Gregory.

doriangrey on July 12, 2007 at 11:15 AM

profitsbeard on July 12, 2007 at 11:04 AM

If we had a Churchill or FDR, the meaning of this war against resurgent Islamic imperialism would be understood and fought seriously, to win, globally.

I couldn’t agree more, as a stated elsewhere before Bush’s presidency started out great but is dying a whimpering death (excuse me for borrowing your phrase)of a thousand mumbles.

doriangrey on July 12, 2007 at 11:18 AM

before Bush’s presidency started out great

It did? Bush came into office and signed an education bill written by ted kennedy; who then turned around and immeidately started criticizing it. It wasn’t until 9/11, that bush got some voice in him; but he bumbled around for a year or so and then it started to cave again.

Bush’s main problem is, and always has been, that he’s a totally inept speaker and commmunicator. Terrible. Rotten. He cannot get a convincing point out without humming and hawing. It’s awful. Whether he’s right or wrong, is irrelevant; he can’t speak.

lorien1973 on July 12, 2007 at 11:23 AM

It must suck to be the janitorial staff wherever Helen Thomas goes, I imagine the ring of buzzard crap around her is a pain in the ass to get off of upholstry and carpets…

Bad Candy on July 12, 2007 at 11:25 AM

It’s fun reading Allah’s spin on the situation in Iraq. It’s cheaper than buying the NY Times, but you get the same posture.

Maybe this is evidence that the DU Dummies are right, and the press is just a bunch of lackeys for the right wing BusHitler spin machine?

Jaibones on July 12, 2007 at 11:28 AM

calling for UN peacekeepers to get in there

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!! Whew. Wow. Oh….she’s…..serious???

amerpundit on July 12, 2007 at 11:29 AM

Gregory learned everything he knows from Helen.
Smartass – check
Anti-U.S. – check
Anti military – check
Pro- liberal – check

Texyank on July 12, 2007 at 11:29 AM

Al Queda: strongest since 9/11!

Is anybody getting tired of being wrong yet?

rho on July 12, 2007 at 11:29 AM

Hey Einstein, I’ve got a newsflash for ya: THIS AIN’T BOSNIA! They’re not gonna get tired or fight to exaustion, they keep coming in from other countries, therefore we gotta make ‘em DEAD, not tired, not exausted, but DEAD. Get it?

Tony737 on July 12, 2007 at 11:31 AM

Is anybody getting tired of being wrong yet?

Are you saying that we created that or would you consider the exportation of Wahhabism via Saudi funding education all around the world has something to do with that?

Spirit of 1776 on July 12, 2007 at 11:32 AM

I thought the Pres did well in his response to Gregory.

mikeyboss on July 12, 2007 at 11:34 AM

he can’t speak

Whereas I do agree with this point, I also think it a semi-convenient excuse for critics to use to ignore the meat of his words.

Were they to make the same statements, would Gore’s monotone delivery bring it across any better? Or, Kerry’s (shudder)?

Again, I agree whole-heartedly that Bush’s oratory skills need a lot of work, but that fact, alone, does not mean he’s wrong, nor is it a worthy excuse for a nation at war to ignore him. /idealism.

yo on July 12, 2007 at 11:34 AM

In that picture on Hot Air’s home page, Helen Thomas looks like The Penguin in Batman Returns. Hmmmm…I’ve never seen Helen Thomas and Oswald Cobblepot in the same place at the same time. Just sayin’.

crushliberalism on July 12, 2007 at 11:35 AM

Spirit of 1776: are you suggesting that we invade Saudi Arabia next?

Six years after 9/11, and 4 years after Iraq, Al Queda may be back in business, only now sheltered by a nuclear state. Is this what winning looks like to you? ‘Cause it doesn’t look like winning to me.

rho on July 12, 2007 at 11:35 AM

Spirit of 1776 on July 12, 2007 at 11:32 AM

Are you saying that we created that or would you consider the exportation of Wahhabism via Saudi funding education all around the world has something to do with that?

The only way some people can feel good about themselves is to believe that America is responsible for all the evil and woes of the world.

doriangrey on July 12, 2007 at 11:37 AM

rho-

Are you saying that al Qaeda is gaining strength because we are fighting them? Are you saying if we ignored them they would be weaker? Are you, and Ron Paul, seriously suggesting that our foreign policy should be one of isolation and running from threats and that would make us safe?

Please tell me how your plan of isolation would make al Qaeda disappear.

JackStraw on July 12, 2007 at 11:40 AM

Nurse: Doctor Bush, how is it going with that patient that you are treating?

Doctor Bush: The patient’s kidneys have failed and his liver is failing but he still has a faint heart beat, so I would rate his condition as mixed to satisfactory.

MB4 on July 12, 2007 at 11:45 AM

It would seem that Thomas thinks that jihadis are magically generated from thin air as a result of Bush’s policies, and that if Bush didn’t exist, al Qaeda wouldn’t, either. Gregory, on the other hand, seems to think that his salary depends not on his ability to report facts, but rather on such street cred as he can obtain by attacking the president.

Both of them are sacks of monkey s__t. However Gregory’s probably right about the salary thing.

morganfrost on July 12, 2007 at 11:46 AM

Al Queda: strongest since 9/11!

Is anybody getting tired of being wrong yet?

Yeah, and I’m sure not doing anything is the answer.

BohicaTwentyTwo on July 12, 2007 at 11:52 AM

Are you saying that al Qaeda is gaining strength because we are fighting them? Are you saying if we ignored them they would be weaker? Are you, and Ron Paul, seriously suggesting that our foreign policy should be one of isolation and running from threats and that would make us safe?

Please tell me how your plan of isolation would make al Qaeda disappear.

Al Queda is gaining strength for many reasons. One of which is our galvanizing presence. Imams preach Islam by the sword; they can then point to the crusaders in Muslim lands and say, “see, we told you so”. A bit simplistic, but no more than “we fight them over there so we don’t have to fight them over here”.

If we were not over there as a major military presence, Muslim extremism becomes much more of a local problem. See, our empire building has done some good things, for sure; it has also allowed much of the rest of the world to coast on our coattails. If America is not around to be both depended upon and used as a scapegoat, Al Queda in Pakistan becomes a Pakistan problem.

Of course, this is not a policy of “isolationism”, and to call it such is a deliberate obfuscation. Non-interventionism means we don’t get involved. It doesn’t mean we can’t involved, just that before we do, we pick a coherent goal and a legitimate target and declare war.

The power-players in Saudi Arabia–and Iran, and Pakistan, and Russia–don’t want Al Queda any more than we do. But so long as we present our soldiers as targets, they have little incentive to get involved. Remove America from the picture, and you can bet that other nations, less sensitive to “international pressure” will handle the problem. It’s the same logic behind local control of schools–people who are most immediate to the problem are the most motivated to solve it. That’s why it’s such a conservative solution to the problem.

BTW, I don’t suggest that we will be completely safe. I suggest that we will be at least equally safe, and it will cost us less in blood, treasure and liberties. We’ve tried the Bush-doctrine, and this is where we have arrived.

rho on July 12, 2007 at 11:55 AM

Six years after 9/11, and 4 years after Iraq, Al Queda may be back in business, only now sheltered by a nuclear state. Is this what winning looks like to you? ‘Cause it doesn’t look like winning to me.

rho on July 12, 2007 at 11:35 AM

It’s been a while since Iraq looked like ‘winning’ to me. I think it’s still in the air, frankly.

I’m just asking if you think Al Queda has grown more as a result of our presence in the Middle East or the exportation of the ideology supported by Saudi Arabia?

btw ‘Sheltered by nuclear state,’ – referring to Pakistan?

Spirit of 1776 on July 12, 2007 at 11:56 AM

Is anybody getting tired of being wrong yet?

rho on July 12, 2007 at 11:29 AM

The MSM is obviously not tired of being wrong.

db on July 12, 2007 at 11:56 AM

MB4 on July 12, 2007 at 11:45 AM

Nurse: Doctor Bush, how is it going with that patient that you are treating?

Doctor Bush: The patient’s kidneys have failed and his liver is failing but he still has a faint heart beat, so I would rate his condition as mixed to satisfactory suggest we pull the plug because he is clearly a lost cause.

You should have just said what you really meant.

doriangrey on July 12, 2007 at 11:56 AM

RHO

AQ has built back up some of their capability not because of our offensive actions but because of Warizistan. When the Pakistani Army was defeated in the field resulting in their retreat from the Tribal Belt Warizistan AQ/Taliban recovered their safe zone to train hence the near batallion size engagements the Taliban have been able to mass and the AQ terrorist org being re-born.

http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/2007/06/exclusive_suici.html

That video was not from Iraq were US forces are just looking for such a target or Afghanistan its Warizistan. Terrorist cannot train/equip/prepare without a safe haven.

The results of Pakistan’s withdraw from Warizistan should be a example for all those who believe we should cede the field in Iraq to AQ/Radicals. The Pakistani Army or US are going to have to go into the Tribal Belt and finish what the Pakistani Army gave up on after all that sacrifice prior to 05′ when they started to withdraw and start all over.

C-Low on July 12, 2007 at 11:57 AM

I’m sure that there’s someone who could make eloquent arguments in favor of persisting in Iraq – it’s just not Bush.

Bush should just quote Hitchens in response to every question.

Enrique on July 12, 2007 at 11:57 AM

rho on July 12, 2007 at 11:55 AM

BTW, I don’t suggest that we will be completely safe. I suggest that we will be at least equally safe, and it will cost us less in blood, treasure and liberties. We’ve tried the Bush-doctrine, and this is where we have arrived.

Yes because we were so equally safe while we ignored them prior to 9/11. Dude you are so full of sh$t.

doriangrey on July 12, 2007 at 11:59 AM

Enrique on July 12, 2007 at 11:57 AM

Bush should just quote Hitchens in response to every question.

Or better yet hire Hitchens as his press secretary.

doriangrey on July 12, 2007 at 12:01 PM

UN Peacekeepers?! That’s a great punchline. Hey, I’m all for it. I nominate the French, the Russians, The Chinese and the Swedes. Knock yourself out guys. I’ll try not to laugh too loud when they get they get beaten like a redheaded stepchild.

Seriously, is she drunk? Does she remember the UN’s stellar performance in Serbia? Talk to the Dutch about the efficacy of UN troops. Moron.

Thomas the Wraith on July 12, 2007 at 12:08 PM

Al Queda: strongest since 9/11!

Is anybody getting tired of being wrong yet?

rho on July 12, 2007 at 11:29 AM

Did you actually read this story?

Despite a campaign of military action and counterterrorism operations, al Qaeda has regained its strength and found safe haven in the tribal areas of Pakistan, the report says, according to counterterrorism officials familiar with the report.

Unless you favor a full scale invasion of Pakistan, please let me know what your solution is. Pakistan (supposedly until recently) would not allow troops into its borders – where everyone knew OBL/AQ is hiding out. And since Pakistan doesn’t have any real authority there, it cannot go in either, lest it risk an uprising (see the red mosque backlash).

Your point is either misinformed or dishonest. Which is it?

lorien1973 on July 12, 2007 at 12:09 PM

Latter that day in the life and times of Doctor Bush.

Nurse: Doctor Bush, how is it going now with that patient that you are treating?

Doctor Bush: The patient’s kidneys have failed and his liver has now failed, but he had a faint heart beat a couple of minutes ago, so I would rate his condition as mixed to low end satisfactory. One should never judge a patients condition by just the current day though. Wouldn’t be prudent as you need to average things out. Besides I have just given him an IV push of Hydrosurgesone. We need to give that some time and not be quitters.

MB4 on July 12, 2007 at 12:10 PM

Yes because we were so equally safe while we ignored them prior to 9/11. Dude you are so full of sh$t.

You didn’t read very carefully, did you? Nowhere do I suggest ignoring them. I suggest removing America as a potential target in foreign lands. Your “full of shit” argument is quite compelling, however.

rho on July 12, 2007 at 12:10 PM

Helen Thomas video added

The four words no man wants to hear.

saint kansas on July 12, 2007 at 12:10 PM

What people need to understand is that no one in Iraq is “threatened” by a US withdrawal (except for the Kurds). Both the Sunnis and the Shiites think that they can win the whole country (and all of the oil and power that comes with it) if the US leaves. They are trying to get us out.

We need to remember that we are in Iraq for OUR SECURITY INTERESTS, not to help Iraqis. The Iraqis need to know that if they cannot behave like civilized people and self-govern with individual liberty, then they are going to suffer IMMENSELY! In the case of the failure of the Iraqi people, either we need to install a dictator friendly to us who will calm the country using whatever methods are required (a bad alternative) or we should withdraw our troops, but along with that we would have to take the oil fields and the gulf access. The Iraqis would be left with nothing. This is the threat that the Iraqis need to be presented with.

In the end, nothing about Iraq, or any of the people in it, is nearly as important as American security interests, and the Iraqis should understand this.

progressoverpeace on July 12, 2007 at 12:11 PM

Bush needs to do more these press conferences. I hear so much ridicule of the way he talks and so forth, I forgot he is actually not that bad at this stuff. He sure made some the reporters sound like blabbering ideologues.

terryannonline on July 12, 2007 at 12:14 PM

rho on July 12, 2007 at 12:10 PM

Oh I read it all right, its so damn ignorant and stupid that it doesn’t warrant being dignified with a serious response.

doriangrey on July 12, 2007 at 12:15 PM

MB4 on July 12, 2007 at 12:10 PM

Yawn…if it smells like bullsh$t it probably is.

doriangrey on July 12, 2007 at 12:16 PM

lorien1973:

Unless you favor a full scale invasion of Pakistan, please let me know what your solution is. Pakistan (supposedly until recently) would not allow troops into its borders – where everyone knew OBL/AQ is hiding out. And since Pakistan doesn’t have any real authority there, it cannot go in either, lest it risk an uprising (see the red mosque backlash).

What? I don’t favor a full scale invasion of anybody.

My point is that we have spent billions of dollars and thousands of lives and Al Queda and the Taliban are just as strong as they were when we started and sheltered under a nuclear umbrella via Pakistan. Clearly something isn’t working, and we’ve only got one foreign policy doctrine in place right now.

rho on July 12, 2007 at 12:17 PM

RHO

We tried your strategy of non-intervention but intervention or something during the Clinton Days. 93′WT, 2 embassies, foiled Philippines hijack plot, foiled millennium plot, Cole,…….then AQ hit a homer with 9-11….were we lost 3k innocent civilians in a matter of hours via 15 Jihadi’s, not years of occupation at the cost of tens of thousands of Jihadi’s.

Everyone of those suicide car bombers dying in Iraq/Afghanistan are one less that could be taught some basic English, basic American culture and deployed to splat on our street corner or markets.

C-Low on July 12, 2007 at 12:20 PM

If we were not over there as a major military presence, Muslim extremism becomes much more of a local problem. See, our empire building has done some good things, for sure; it has also allowed much of the rest of the world to coast on our coattails. If America is not around to be both depended upon and used as a scapegoat, Al Queda in Pakistan becomes a Pakistan problem.

I disagree. There is no such thing in 2007 as a local problem. That was demonstrated to us plainly on 9/11.

I also disagree strongly with the term empire building. It is not only a loaded term it is demonstrably false. What al Qaeda is attempting to do, infiltrate countires, destabilize them, create breeding grounds of poverty and lawlessness where they can recruit new members and then take over the country, that’s empire building.

As you noted, al Qaeda is thriving in Pakistan. They are also thriving in Lebanon, Syria, Iran, the Palestinian territories…places where we aren’t. How to explain that? They aren’t looking to drive out crusaders in those places, they are looking to drive out moderate Muslims. You think al Qaeda taking over a nuclear equipped Pakistan is a “local problem”?

You also need to consider the economic ramifications of an al Qaeda dominated middle east. They would be in control of a huge portion of the world’s energy and could effectively ruin our economy. That sound like a local problem to you?

Muslim extremism has been around since the 17th century, long before we even were local. They use any excuse to justify there extremism and their goals are diametrically opposed to free societies and us. They have already infilitrated a signficant portion of Europe, long before any war, and they would love to do the same thing here. Radical Islam preaches that the world belongs to Allah, any who resist or do not submit, will be killed. All the world is local to these clowns.

JackStraw on July 12, 2007 at 12:21 PM

rho-

AQ has built up its strength because they have been allowed a safe haven in Pakistan. Dealing with them through dialogue has a nice ring to it, until their dialogue tells you they won’t stop until they kill you.

BadgerHawk on July 12, 2007 at 12:23 PM

Doctor Bush: Only quitters yawn.

MB4 on July 12, 2007 at 12:23 PM

I see no sign of any impact of this war in America anywhere.

Only the soldiers asked to rotate more than twice should be allowed to even dare use such a term.

There’s no effect on the economy or populace in general. No rationing, no scrap drives, no nothing.

A-F#$*ing-Men.

saint kansas on July 12, 2007 at 12:25 PM

MB4 on July 12, 2007 at 12:23 PM

Still smells like bullsh$t……

doriangrey on July 12, 2007 at 12:27 PM

JackStraw on July 12, 2007 at 12:21 PM

Nicely put. Also rho, I doubt anyone here is going to argue that Iraq isn’t a comlete CF right now, and you’re right when you say Saudi Arabia and a few others want AQ around about as much as we do. The problem is, I don’t trust those countries to actually deal with the problem. I think they’ll just make a deal where AQ agrees not to attack them.

BadgerHawk on July 12, 2007 at 12:32 PM

Enrique on July 12, 2007 at 11:57 AM

Bush should just quote Hitchens in response to every question.

Or better yet hire Hitchens as his press secretary.

doriangrey on July 12, 2007 at 12:01 PM

One thing we’ve learned is that it’s absolutely necessary for a successful president to have an excellent ability to communicate and persuade– especially in wartime. George Bush doesn’t,and he never found or looked for a Christopher Hitchens type to be his spokesman. As a consequence, he often loses to the enemy within. Keep this in mind when evaluating the current Rep. field.

JiangxiDad on July 12, 2007 at 12:34 PM

“I suggest removing America as a potential target in foreign lands”
RHO

Do you realize what you are advocating the complete US withdraw from the world with that statement. Muslim lands stretch from Andullah land aka Spain through S Balkans, N Africa, Arabia, Caucus Region, Central Asia, parts of S Asia, all the way to Philippine Moro. Then of course when we get done with all those withdraws we will only have to throw Israel and few million Jews onto the sacrificial alter with the dispersed Christians, Hindu’s, ect.. that also co-habitat many of these regions with the Muslims. But hey whats a few hundred million innocents thrown to a genocidal ideology in the name of hopeless appeasement.

But hey maybe if we give the Radicals the entire world I am confident that once they solidify those gains they will not want our small corner as well. Not like they regularly preach how Sharia must engulf all the world and its Allahs will to not accept anything less.

C-Low on July 12, 2007 at 12:34 PM

What? I don’t favor a full scale invasion of anybody.

My point is that we have spent billions of dollars and thousands of lives and Al Queda and the Taliban are just as strong as they were when we started and sheltered under a nuclear umbrella via Pakistan. Clearly something isn’t working, and we’ve only got one foreign policy doctrine in place right now.

rho on July 12, 2007 at 12:17 PM

I congratulate you on missing the point. Did you -again- not read the story? AQ/OBL etal are in Pakistan. We cannot go into Pakistan, can we? Unless you are actually suggesting something, mindless carping is not an intelligent point.

I’d disagree that we’ve done nothing too. Afghanistan is not under the thumb of extremists right now, is it? Taliban are getting increasingly desperate. AQ certainly isn’t actually performing any deadly attacks – so its even hard to argue that they are at “full strength” if you attempt to remember how often AQ attackes us during the 90’s.

While I think your point that AQ is under the nuclear shield of Pakistan (as if Pakistan is defending them), is pretty humorous, given that Pakistan has its own extremist problem that it isn’t sure how to deal with. I think you are being intentionally dishonest here.

So what’s your solution to the problem? Anything? Bueller?

lorien1973 on July 12, 2007 at 12:37 PM

“I suggest removing America as a potential target in foreign lands”
RHO

This is what I call the beaten wife foreign policy – Ron Paul advocates this often enough.

Please don’t hit me. I didn’t mean it. Please stop hitting me! It’s my fault.

lorien1973 on July 12, 2007 at 12:39 PM

I see no sign of any impact of this war in America anywhere.

Only the soldiers asked to rotate more than twice should be allowed to even dare use such a term.

There’s no effect on the economy or populace in general. No rationing, no scrap drives, no nothing.

A-F#$*ing-Men.

saint kansas on July 12, 2007 at 12:25 PM

I will put a ditto on that to. If it was not for the Media constant harping on this war the actual required sacrifices have been so small that I doubt anyone would even realized we are in a world wide engagement from N Africa to Philippines Moro. Here is some charts I found interesting putting our loses into historical comparison.

Hattip Gateway Pundit

http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/2007/07/democrats-define-defeat-for-america.html#links

The GWOT so far has been a unbelievable success so far by military historical comparison. Of course the media with their LLL & Dem allies have managed to make some pie in the sky bars that are purposely impossible to meet.

C-Low on July 12, 2007 at 12:46 PM

lorien, it sounds like Ron Paul cuz rho’s a Ron Paul robot.

Bad Candy on July 12, 2007 at 12:46 PM

The problem is, I don’t trust those countries to actually deal with the problem. I think they’ll just make a deal where AQ agrees not to attack them.

What you are describing is actually the foundation for what is today al Qaeda. When the House of Saud made a pact with Mohamed Ibn Abdul-Wahab. They have been dealing with that particular devil ever since and only since 9/11 have they seen the internal threat and worked to eliminate them.

Pakistan tried this and look what’s happening. Somolia, failed state. It never, ever works. Radical Islam is an expantionist political movement that seeks to dominate and inflict it’s barbaric rule on whoever takes it in. The only way to deal with it is to eliminate it.

JackStraw on July 12, 2007 at 12:47 PM

It is a science wonder how they keep that corpse animated as they do. (Helen Thomas)

abinitioadinfinitum on July 12, 2007 at 12:47 PM

“This is what I call the beaten wife foreign policy -”
lorien1973

Thats f*cked up dammm I lost a mouth full of coffee reading that. thats awesome.

C-Low on July 12, 2007 at 12:49 PM

lorien1973 on July 12, 2007 at 12:39 PM

Well rho is a Paulite so it shouldn’t come as any surprise.

doriangrey on July 12, 2007 at 12:49 PM

JackStraw on July 12, 2007 at 12:47 PM

Islam is an expantionist political movement that seeks to dominate and inflict it’s barbaric rule on whoever takes it in. The only way to deal with it is to eliminate it.

Seems like we don’t agree on a whole lot, but this is definitely one area where we are 100 percent in agreement.

doriangrey on July 12, 2007 at 12:51 PM

Did y’all REALLY expect the drive-by’s to report anything positive? Just wait until September!!

SouthernGent on July 12, 2007 at 12:53 PM

C-Low on July 12, 2007 at 12:46 PM

Damn it C-Low, you know your not allowed to bring a gun to a banana fight….

doriangrey on July 12, 2007 at 12:56 PM

JackStraw on July 12, 2007 at 12:47 PM

That’s what I was hinting at but just didn’t say. And unfortunately it’s happening in Pakistan again. The reason this war is so frustrating to people is there’s no government to fight, no country boundaries at stake for the other guys. We can’t base out of Saudi Arabia, fine. We’ll go somewhere else, and somewhere else. It’s real life whack-a-mole. It’s an ideological struggle, and those don’t happen fast. The average American lacks the guts for such a campaign.

BadgerHawk on July 12, 2007 at 12:58 PM

It wasn’t all about Iraq this morning. Someone from WaPo asked him about the Libby commutation, to which Bush replied by noting what a shame it was that so many millions of dollars spent on investigations could have been saved if only, ahem, certain people had come forward sooner.

You’d think, except that knowing who the leaker was didn’t seem to actually stop the expensive investigation into who the leaker was.

Go figure.

Esthier on July 12, 2007 at 12:59 PM

Nurse: Doctor Bush, how is it going with that patient that you are treating?

Doctor Bush: The patient’s kidneys have failed and his liver is failing but he still has a faint heart beat, so I would rate his condition as mixed to satisfactory suggest we pull the plug because he is clearly a lost cause. would leave him alone and call Dr. Murtha when he flatlines. He’s on the golf course in Okinowa.

BohicaTwentyTwo on July 12, 2007 at 1:00 PM

Well rho is a Paulite so it shouldn’t come as any surprise.

doriangrey on July 12, 2007 at 12:49 PM

Is he really? I just took a guess.

lorien1973 on July 12, 2007 at 1:10 PM

The average American lacks the guts for such a campaign.

BadgerHawk on July 12, 2007 at 12:58 PM

Agreed. What amuses me and simultaneously makes me very sad is that many people think we can just leave Iraq, leave the middle east, and all of this will go away. For all the crap Bush takes, and he deserves much of it, he at least understands the fundemental truth that we are at war. Not a war of our choosing but against an enemy who chose to attack us and has been doing it for decades.

We can leave Iraq. But we won’t leave this war. It will come to us.

JackStraw on July 12, 2007 at 1:10 PM

The events on the ground will once again outpace the political game. Dems are running in terror that the surge might work. come Sept. if the progress is on the same line as it is today we will be talking about adding troops instead of withdrawal.

unseen on July 12, 2007 at 1:10 PM

unseen on July 12, 2007 at 1:10 PM

if the progress is on the same line as it is today we will be talking about adding troops instead of withdrawal.

I sure hope you are right, and while I think things in Iraq are currently headed in that direction I do not want to underestimate our socialist/liberal democrat fellow citizen/traitors ability to throw an Empire State Building sized monkey wrench into the works.

doriangrey on July 12, 2007 at 1:14 PM

Just heard on the top of the hour radio news that “Bush admits a member of his Cabinet may have leaked” re: Plame.

Didn’t take long for them to totally spin the story away from Armitage/Administration.

Cuffy Meigs on July 12, 2007 at 1:16 PM

Nurse Sue: Jane, would you rather have Doctor Bush treat you or Doctor Murtha?
Nurse Jane: I am not sure Sue, Doctor Murtha would probably fall asleep when he was operating on me and fall on top of me and suffocate me, but Doctor Bush would probably take out the wrong organ.
Nurse Sue: Jane, maybe you and I should both go to work at a different Hospital.
Nurse Jane: Sue, lets both put our two weeks notice in this afternoon.

MB4 on July 12, 2007 at 1:17 PM

doriangrey on July 12, 2007 at 1:14 PM

Bring them on. the more we get the Dems on the record as being for the defeat of the USA right before our victory the better. The ads will write themselves.

“During the moment of truth where were the democrates? They were fiddling while Rome burned. Are these the people you want to run our government? Will your children be safe with these whimps?”

unseen on July 12, 2007 at 1:23 PM

MB4 on July 12, 2007 at 1:17 PM

Are you trying to make a point that President Bush is incompetant. If so, I agree. If you’re trying to make a point that we should ‘pull the plug’ on Iraq because it’s in a struggle for its life, I don’t.

Stop using your General Hospital narrative and just say what you mean. damn.

BadgerHawk on July 12, 2007 at 1:29 PM

Rep. Heather Wilson (R-N.M.) called for comity yesterday during a meeting of the Republican Conference after House Minority Leader John Boehner (R-Ohio) referred to Senate GOP colleagues favoring a change of course in Iraq as “wimps.”

During the Vietnam War, he [Boehner] enlisted in the Navy. He was discharged after eight weeks of training because of a bad back.

ROFLMAO!

MB4 on July 12, 2007 at 1:29 PM

BadgerHawk, if I don’t laugh at all this I will have to cry.

MB4 on July 12, 2007 at 1:31 PM

Fair enough.

BadgerHawk on July 12, 2007 at 1:31 PM

MB4 on July 12, 2007 at 1:29 PM

So if you have a bad back you don’t know the difference between a wimp and a hero?

So a person that enlisted (did not wait to be drafted) but actually went and signed up to fight for his country while people were burning their draft cards and fleeing to Canada or dodging the draft in other ways (think Bill Clinton), this person in your words does not have the “right” to call someone that is abandoning our soldiers in the field because they are worried about reelection “wimps.”

So noone but a soldier that has seen combat can know what courage is in your mind?

unseen on July 12, 2007 at 2:02 PM

In that picture on Hot Air’s home page, Helen Thomas looks like The Penguin in Batman Returns.

“Whraa, whraa, Bush-Hitler. whraaaaa, whraa”

Hening on July 12, 2007 at 2:07 PM

Spirit of 1776: are you suggesting that we invade Saudi Arabia next? [...]

rho on July 12, 2007 at 11:35 AM

Sorry, I missed the earlier question. No, I’m not. I’m not a fan of the whole idea of nation building in the first place.

Let’s assume for a moment you are right and that our presence in the Middle East is fueling Al-Q growth (and for sake of argument, lets say it’s fuels almost all of it). There is undeniable evidence that the ‘religion of peace’, jihad in general, will strike anywhere at anytime – the Canada PM plot proves that as they have nothing to do with troops.

That being the case, we are going to be a target (as we were @ 9.11 pre-Iraq war). So if we defer the battle to our shores, effective fighting of must by necessity increase surveillance, etc; in short decreased civil liberties. Is that an acceptable trade? How does that reconcile for you? Or do you advocate a surgical strikes world-wide whenever intelligence points at particular threats?

Spirit of 1776 on July 12, 2007 at 2:08 PM

More evidence that Hairspray and long term exposure to media makeup shrinks braincells

EricPWJohnson on July 12, 2007 at 2:08 PM

Gregory learned everything he knows from Helen.
Smartass – check
Anti-U.S. – check
Anti military – check
Pro- liberal – check

Texyank on July 12, 2007 at 11:29 AM

Anti-Israel – check

Entelechy on July 12, 2007 at 2:16 PM

The swipe at Armitage, while long overdue, was a welcome development nonetheless. It threw cold water right back in the face of the WaPo hack.

thirteen28 on July 12, 2007 at 2:17 PM

unseen on July 12, 2007 at 2:02 PM

My point was that he who lives in glass house should not throw rocks.

MB4 on July 12, 2007 at 2:29 PM

P.S. Having a “bad back” was one of the biggest dodges to get out of the military. Don’t know if that was the case with him, but he should not be throwing rocks. He, of course, can if he wants as it is a free country, but he does not really have much credibility.

MB4 on July 12, 2007 at 2:35 PM

P.S. 2 The navy didn’t do much fighting during Vietnam. 98% of the KIA were Army or Marines.

MB4 on July 12, 2007 at 2:38 PM

I have a perfect right to comment on this war and not be called a “chicken hawk!”
It’s my country, I’m paying for the war and it’s my safety, security, freedom and way of life they’re fighting to protect and defend!
And I voted for it, too.
So MB4 can just shut up!
BTW, I wanted to enlist and if I weren’t 50 years old and a woman, I would join the line to suit up.
I want those IslamoNazi b*st*rds dead.

Jen the Neocon on July 12, 2007 at 3:14 PM

What’s The Penguin doing there?

Niko on July 12, 2007 at 3:16 PM

Jen the Neocon on July 12, 2007 at 3:14 PM

I have a perfect right to comment on this war and not be called a “chicken hawk!”

Well no Capitan MB4 says you have no credibility if you do and perfect officer and gentleman that he is he must be right.

doriangrey on July 12, 2007 at 3:21 PM

Who is calling you a chickenhawk, Jen the Neocon ???

I think that you are being way too sensitive.

Besides people who are not for this Iraqi Islamic “Nation Building” and want to pull back from Iraq are called all manner of worse things (not necessarily by you).

Cut and runners.
Unpatriotic.
Leftists.
Kos Kids.
Anti the troops.
Democrats.
Liberals.
Cowards.
Whimps.

Kind of one sided I think.

MB4 on July 12, 2007 at 3:22 PM

doriangrey on July 12, 2007 at 3:21 PM

That is not what I said. You are also being way too sensitive.

It is not becoming when liberals play the victim and it is no more becoming when conservatives do.

MB4 on July 12, 2007 at 3:24 PM

John Boehner (R-Ohio) referred to Senate GOP colleagues favoring a change of course in Iraq as “wimps.”

He can do that, but no one is suppose to throw anything back at him?

Even say Hagel and others, who served honorably in the U.S. Military and might not like being called a wimp would not be allowed to say anything back to Boehner?

Brave new world.

Kind of reminds me of Al Gore telling us that we can not deny Global Warming and that we should use less energy while he uses so much.

That is not the America that I know.

MB4 on July 12, 2007 at 3:33 PM

MB4 on July 12, 2007 at 3:24 PM

Full of sh$t…..

doriangrey on July 12, 2007 at 3:38 PM

Full of sh$t…..

doriangrey on July 12, 2007 at 3:38 PM

I think that you would fit in well at one of the “liberal” web sites. They sound like that too.

MB4 on July 12, 2007 at 3:45 PM

Looks like I need to revise my list of:

Cut and runners.
Unpatriotic.
Leftists.
Kos Kids.
Anti the troops.
Democrats.
Liberals.
Cowards.
Whimps.

already and add

Full of sh$t…..

Anything else?

MB4 on July 12, 2007 at 3:48 PM

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