Kristol sounded off well. Somebody attacks my home, I’m going to try to get the fight away from my family first. Give me a second or two, so I can gear up for combat, then I’m headed for the enemies front yard. I’m pretty sure Sun Tzu mentioned, if possible you pick the battlefield, the book might have been written a while back but his concepts are absolutely logical. And what better place to set up a terrorist killing zone than Iraq? Saddam had been begging for a final a**whippin ever since his psycho chronies signed the cease fire and promptly forgot Uncle Sams military muscle. God only knows how many acts of war that saddist saddam commited against US, trying to assasinate ANY ex POTUS is reason enough. Even without the WMD argument there’s plenty case enough. The dems call Iraq a terrorist magnet… d*mn right, go there and fight somebody ready for your evil twisted a*s, that’s the alternative to them attacking our families in highrise office buildings.
I’m still for the war.
I’m still for the troops.
I just wish I could tell my brothers in arms “we got your back at home”, but its tough when Dems declare it’s open season on anyone who supports victory, and the Pres. declares it’s open borders to anyone who supports the law.

One of my few positive posts about John McCain. Give the man his due: While seven Republican “jackasses” defect to support a withdrawal even as the early indications point to increasing success in Iraq (Hagel, Snowe, and Sens. Norm Coleman……

Actually I was an E1, E2, E5, O1, O2 and O3

achieved in three and a half years of service, says MP4. At present, time-in-grade requirements for promotion to O-2 and O-3 are both two years. Leaving out the rather minuscule time-in-grade requirements for the junior enlisted grades in which MP4 says that he served, that’s four years already. Perhaps, however, MP4 served when the time-in-grade requirements were different. It’s possible.

What are you going to do? Eat your spinach Obliterate your HA account?

Fragility on July 10, 2007 at 11:48 PM

Ciao Fragil one – though, as usual, I always miss losing another troll because it’s way more fun with you around.

baldilocks, Limerick, csdeven, Jen the Neocon, MB4 and all others here and everywhere who have served, do serve or are families of those who serve this country – THANK YOU!

Thank you for supporting our freedom and right to also be stupid, aside from being free.

MB4 you became most infuriating when you started to drop titles. Your display of ‘superior’ knowledge and moral authority on things war, just because you were somebody, was all lost when you missed the point of the most powerful premise of the volunteer force.

Btw – many on this board, including some lefties, are credentialed, educated and/or experienced and hardly ever have all that running in front of them. Nor do they diminish others who don’t or call them idiots or other terms only elitists would.

Sincerely though, I appreciate your service the same as all others’. You are all superior to the rest of us.

Any opportunity the Iraqis had of leaving behind autocratic rule based on religious hatred was lost once Saddam was hanged, if not sooner. Hatred of that monster probably was the only thing a significant majority of Iraqis agreed upon (and some still supported him unfortunately).

At that moment a truly representative government more along US federal lines rather than a parliamentary system might have worked.

But the fact is no amount of US blood is going to solve their problems right now. They need to slaughter each other until they finally get sick of it. Unfortunately, I think that is going to take a long time. Oil exports from Iraq are going to continue to suffer.

I supported the war. I thought the Iraqis would jump at an opportunity to leave armed civil strife behind. I’m still glad we invaded, and killed off Saddam’s cadre. But we should have just shot him while he was in his hole in the ground and then left town.

If we had, Republicans still would control the Senate. That price was too high, because it will cost this nation so much more over the next couple of election cycles.

As an afterthought, the Kurds would do well to make-nice with the Turks, before they find themselves wiped out on two fronts.

You are really into the ad hominem aren’t you.

No question mark as that was rhetorical.

Coming from the idiot guy who started the ad hominem attacks thats a rather ironic statement. Furthermore as I said, I have some small experience with how and officer and a gentleman acts, and so far you have acted neither as an officer or a gentleman.

No as I said before I don’t simply accept anonymous claims made over the internet as fact, there are simply too many people making false claims just to bolster their arguments for any rational person to accept such claims at face value. And quite frankly your claims are so exceptional as to be highly dubious.

Not to mention that you have made highly inflammatory and egregious assertions that smack of racism unbecoming an officer.

Want to know my exit strategy for Iraq? Exit is the strategy. What will result is a civil war between Shia and Sunni. Initially, it’ll be in Iraq. Then, inshallah, it’ll spread to Saudi Arabia, where the Shia in al Hasa province can rebel. Let all that Saudi cash that funds madrassahs and CAIR in the US be diverted towards containing their restive Shia, and in the meantime, let Iran’s cash flow to their science project and Hizbullah be diverted towards encouraging Shia rebellions in Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Yemen and Bahrein. Once we have these 2 US hating groups at each others throats, we can then keep arming at a low level either side so that neither gains the upper hand.”

Not to mention a serious lack of strategic forethought. This quite frankly is a god awfully bad strategy which I find very difficult to believe any US military officer would ever seriously suggest. As was suggested before it sounds like something that a dKos kiddy would spout foolishly believing that the ignorant uneducated redneck conservatives would find appealing.

Not only is it not a strategically sound option, its a vile racist suggestion that no Arab or Muslim is trustworthy and that their only value is that of cannon fodder because they are only capable of savage butchery. The very fact that you would make such a suggestion suggest that even dKos is to much of a civilized place for you to call home and perhaps you belong someplace like Stormfront.

Ah, some thing we can completely agree on.

The Republicans in Congress coming out against the war are just self serving hacks with no thought for the security of the country. Why? Because they do not have the common decency to would wait until September to read the evaluation from Iraq.

The rumours have the report on the Iraqi parliament saying that the parliament has not met any of the benchmarks. Contrast this to the Democratic Congress which has met only one of its benchmarks (Rise in the minimum wage attached to a defence spending bill).

Lets do a little comparison of relative effort:

Iraq – Newly formed Democracy, new parliament, new government cobbled together from many political parties. Major economic and civil disruptions (to put it mildly)

USA – Long time democracy, new two party Congress. No economic or civil disruptions.

And we are upset with the Iraqis. We should be ashamed.

Let all that Saudi cash that funds madrassahs and CAIR in the US be diverted towards containing their restive Shia, and in the meantime, let Iran’s cash flow to their science project and Hizbullah be diverted towards encouraging Shia rebellions in Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Yemen and Bahrein. Once we have these 2 US hating groups at each others throats, we can then keep arming at a low level either side so that neither gains the upper hand.”

MB4 on July 10, 2007 at 8:55 PM

I’m sorry, are you advocating getting out of Iraq to let Iran have free reign to develop their nuclear program? I don’t care if you are George Patton posting from beyond the veil, that’s one of the dumbest ideas I’ve ever seen posted.

As for the chickenhawk argument, go back to Allah’s update for this post and you are defeated by your own logic. If your theory is that only those who served get to have their opinions heard on matters military, then we should be following Senator McCain’s advice about standing strong in Iraq, and not that of Senator Voinovich, who never served.

You star a fight, you’d better finish it on your terms, or you only embolden a bestial enemy.

Use of the chickenhawk accusation is unworthy of a veteran. Having come up through the ranks, you should know that not everyone can serve, and not everyone who serves has absolute moral authority on military matters. Indeed, you and I apparently have several issues on which we disagree…which one of us gets to claim the mantle of ‘a veteran speaking on a military matter?’ With the kind of racking and stacking you’re trying to apply here, do I get to tell you you’re wrong simply because I’m still active duty and you’re not? Is that the way you’d like all your points to be considered?

And another thing…when you were in, would you have wanted only the support for your mission of your fellow current and former servicemembers or would you have liked that mission to have the support of lots of people from all walks of life? I don’t see how you can denigrate those Americans whose hearts and minds have been won.

-The Major

Thanks and I trust your son is also well. God bless em’ all.

Limerick on July 10, 2007 at 10:11 PM

Can’t say this enough. Thanks to your son for his service and to you and yours for raising a fine son.

I went to the very same U.S. Army Field Artillery school that General Tommy Franks did.
MB4 on July 10, 2007 at 10:20 PM

Great, OCS. 90 Day Wonder. They produced 2LT William Calley too.

Franks was a good general officer, but he overthought the Iraqi situation. There was no reason use the entire 4th ID as a head fake on Saddam. It was like Shaq against a 12-year old. They would have been better served on the ground securing the aftermath. But Franks only stayed on after Afghanistan saying he would take care of the invasion and let someone else lead the reconstruction. He knew the reconstruction would take years and wanted out. But in that transfer of power, momentum and command authority was lost. Was Bremer in charge or the new CENTOM commander?

I find your comment, and the spirit you intended when you wrote it, and your comments that followed, to be offensive.

The epithet you used is designed to be an insult against the non-veteran. However, you also insult the very founders of this nation. It may have escaped your notice, but Patrick Henry, John Adams, and Ben Franklin — 3 of the founders of this nation — were also “chickenhawks.” None served in the military. Thomas Jefferson, the man who wrote the Declaration of Independence, was a “chickenhawk” too. So was John Hancock. You remember Hancock? The man who was President of the Continental Congress and who signed the Declaration of Independence first — and in such a large flourish that King George would be able to read it without his glasses? Yeah, he was a “chickenhawk,” too.

There were a lot of “chickenhawks” that signed the Declaration of Independence, putting their lives, their property and their “sacred honor,” at high risk, in nothing but a skiff made of paper.

Every one of these “chickenhawks,” sir, were better men than YOU WILL EVER BE.

Boston Globe columnist, Jeff Jacoby, has the best response to people who (like you) try to use the “chickenhawk” slander to belittle the ideas of others:

The founders of the American republic were unambiguous in rejecting any hint of military supremacy. Under the Constitution, military leaders take their orders from civilian leaders, who are subject in turn to the judgment of ordinary voters. Those who wear the uniform in wartime are entitled to their countrymen’s esteem and lasting gratitude. But for well over two centuries, Americans have insisted that when it comes to security and defense policy, soldiers and veterans get no more of a say than anyone else.

You don’t need medical training to express an opinion on healthcare. You don’t have to be on the police force to comment on matters of law and order. You don’t have to be a parent or a teacher or a graduate to be heard on the educational controversies of the day. You don’t have to be a journalist to comment on this or any other column.

And whether you have fought for your country or never had that honor, you have every right to weigh in on questions of war and peace. Those who cackle “Chicken hawk!” are not making an argument. They are merely trying to stifle one, and deserve to be ignored.

[Jeff Jacoby, “The ‘Chicken Hawk’ slur,” 7/24/06, http://www.townhall.com/Columnists/JeffJacoby/2006/07/24/the_chicken_hawk_slur Emphasis mine.

You will note, I hope, the clause: “military leaders take their orders from civilian leaders….” (which I highlighted). Imagine that: Civilian control of the military. Did they tell you at field artillery school that “civilian control of the military” means that the CHICKENHAWKS ARE IN CHARGE? And that this is how it is supposed to be?

Maybe you should apologize now. To veterans and non-veterans alike. Or maybe you should simply go away.