“Facts” disappearing without a trace from LAT bombshell on Fred’s abortion lobbying; Update: Sununu rips ABC reporter over Fred lobbying story
posted at 5:11 pm on July 9, 2007 by Allahpundit
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Jim Geraghty posted this more than two hours ago. How on earth is it not already all over the right-wing blogosphere?
As luck would have it, I myself blockquoted that story at length and can confirm that Jim’s right. The original paragraph:
At one of the meals, she recalled, Thompson re-enacted a cowboy death scene from one of his movies. She also remembered him telling her that Sununu had just given him tickets for a VIP tour of the White House for one of Thompson’s sons and his wife.
And how it reads now, at the same URL that I linked to Friday night when the story first broke:
Thompson kept her updated on his progress in telephone conversations and over meals at Washington restaurants, including dinner at Galileo and lunch at the Monocle, she said. At one of the meals, she recalled, Thompson told her that Sununu had just given him tickets for a VIP tour of the White House for a Thompson son and his wife.
The detail about the cowboy scene is up in smoke, perhaps with good reason: as Geraghty notes, Fred doesn’t seem to have acted in any westerns before 1991. There’s no explanation for its disappearance on the LAT page and nothing on the paper’s Corrections page. And that’s not the only change. Here’s how the opening paragraph originally read:
Former Tennessee Sen. Fred D. Thompson, who is campaigning for president as a “pro-life” Republican, accepted a lobbying assignment from a family-planning group to persuade the first Bush White House to ease a controversial abortion restriction, according to a 1991 document and five people familiar with the matter.
And now:
Fred D. Thompson, who is campaigning for president as an antiabortion Republican, accepted an assignment from a family-planning group to lobby the first Bush White House to ease a controversial abortion restriction, according to a 1991 document and several people familiar with the matter.
I’m not sure what accounts for the pro-life/antiabortion change (an LAT style quirk, maybe) but here’s a possible explanation for the switch from “five people” to several. The five sources quoted in the piece in support of the claim that Fred “accepted a lobbying assignment” for the group are Judith DeSarno, Michael Barnes, and then the following three. I’m assuming nothing’s changed from the original version but at this point who can tell?
In addition to Barnes and DeSarno, three other people said they recalled Thompson lobbying against the rule on behalf of the family planning association.
Susan Cohen, a member of the association’s board of directors in 1991, said in reference to DeSarno and Thompson: “We were looking, of course, for a Republican who might have some inroads to the White House at that time, and so that’s how she came upon contacting him.”
Said Bill Hamilton, who then directed the Washington office of the Planned Parenthood Federation of America, a group that was DeSarno’s main ally in lobbying on the abortion counseling rule: “I definitely recall her reaching out to [Thompson] and engaging him in some way, and trying to squeeze the White House through him.”
Sarah L. Szanton, who worked for DeSarno as director of government relations for the family planning association, agreed that Thompson “consulted on our behalf against the gag rule.”
None of the three are as explicit as DeSarno and Barnes that Fred was retained for lobbying and did in fact lobby the White House (although the first sentence of the blockquote asserts that they did). Maybe the LAT was uncomfortable asserting in the lede that all five were unambiguously claiming that Fred had “accepted a lobbying assignment” and so it was changed to a weaselly “several” to make the actual number more ambiguous.
But in that case, why reiterate per the blockquote that “three other people said they recalled Thompson lobbying against the rule”?
The changes in the first paragraph are obviously much less important than the one about the cowboy movie, which speaks to DeSarno’s credibility. I don’t know what the story is here but for a major paper to be dropping facts and rewording passages without noting it, in a bombshell story no less, is suspicious — but not surprising. As we learned during Jamilgate, the AP pulls this crap as a matter of official policy (“For corrections on live, online stories, we overwrite the previous version. We send separate corrective stories online as warranted.”) and there’s at least one notorious instance of it happening within the very bowels of the bible of the journalism industry. Exit question: What gives?
Update: We may have an answer on the pro-life/antiabortion switch. And if so, it’s exactly what you’d expect.
Update: Sununu on the brink!
Asked if it was possible whether Thompson met with someone on his staff to lobby the first Bush White House to relax a controversial abortion restriction, the famously prickly Sununu flew off the handle.
“You know, with all due respect, may I comment on that? That’s the kind of dumb question that makes you wonder what’s wrong with the press. How do you get a job working for ABC asking a question like that? Did he meet with someone on my staff? Did he meet with someone in the street?” asked an incredulous Sununu.
Asked if he was suggesting that the abortion-rights group which claims to have used Thompson’s services had fabricated minutes from a Sept. 14, 1991 board meeting in order to undermine Thompson’s standing among conservatives, Sununu said, “I wouldn’t put anything past that group.”
Update: Patterico says the print edition of the paper didn’t contain the line about the cowboy movie, although the web version certainly did.
Update: Omri Ceren e-mails to say that the original version of the LAT story is still online — at the Baltimore Sun.
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csdeven on July 9, 2007 at 7:49 PM
Again, for the hundredth time, YOU are the one making the claim, therefore YOU are the one responsible for backing it up, not me.
Thanks for the link, I will review it.
jdawg on July 9, 2007 at 7:51 PM
Esthier-
Fred has been running to and as a hero of the NRLO. He got a 33% scorecard from them on issues they fought for. By contrast, Bill Frist got a 100%.
I keep hearing that Fred is the conservative hero but he does not have a conservative record. People here and elsewhere have flailed away at other candidates for what they percieve as flip flopping or not being conservative enough. I’m just curious as to why Fred gets a pass.
My theory, and granted its just a theory, 90% have no idea what his record is and are swept up in the spin.
JackStraw on July 9, 2007 at 7:52 PM
I still have problems buying that. He contradicts himself by the second answer. First he says “abortions should be legal in the first trimester in all circumstances,” and next claims that minors should get parental permission first, which is completely counter to the first.
From there on, every other position is a pro-life position, and everything else since supports the claim that he’s a pro-life candidate.
All you have with this is one answer that is immediately contradicted within the survey.
Esthier on July 9, 2007 at 7:53 PM
JackStraw on July 9, 2007 at 7:44 PM
What the bloody H does campaign finance have to do with abortion???
Looks like a stretch to make someone look bad. This is not credible in my opinion.
jdawg on July 9, 2007 at 7:53 PM
Even as a right-wing Republican, I have never understood how anyone gets off calling themselves pro-life when they don’t seem to give a Good Damn about the life of the prospective mother and father, but only about the few cells that may possibly become their offspring.
Franklin Hill on July 9, 2007 at 7:55 PM
This is exactly what I mean by denial. Saying the choice is ultimately up to the woman is the definition of pro-choice. He is no more or less pro-choice than Romney.
For the umpteenth time, all I’m asking is why people keep putting him on a pedastal when he is NOT a conservative savior.
JackStraw on July 9, 2007 at 7:55 PM
Looked at that so-called survey from ‘94. This was not the survey of a “pro-choice” candidate, and his voting record on abortion, despite what JS says, is very good.
Sorry guys, you can bluster and scream and holler all ya want, you ain’t winning me over.
jdawg on July 9, 2007 at 7:58 PM
Your bitch is why NRLO, not me. I don’t grade ‘em I just report.
I take you are also willing to overlook that he campainged under the woman’s right to choose banner? Ok.
This is a big issue for me but for the true social cons, I am told it matters. I guess not for the right candidate.
JackStraw on July 9, 2007 at 8:00 PM
Voting speaks louder than words.
Esthier on July 9, 2007 at 8:01 PM
Thompson:
Government should stay out of it. No public financing. The ultimate decision must be made by the women. Government should treat its citizens as adults capable of making moral decisions on their own.
A repost cause I guess jdawg missed it. Here, let me do it again.
The ultimate decision must be made by the women
I don’t know how that could be any more clear. My goal isn’t to win anyone over, just to try and understand where all this blind hero alliegance comes from.
JackStraw on July 9, 2007 at 8:03 PM
Links, csdeven, links! Go find ‘em and bring ‘em back here to prove your points — instead of foaming at the mouth. I’m not even a Fred-head, and I find you really annoying.
If everything you say is true, the info has to be out there — go get it, and show everyone here — we’re waiting breathlessly.
P.S. Did Thompson run over your dog or something? Steal your winning lottery ticket maybe? What’s with the obsessive hate trip?
Or…could it be that you’re actually a Fred supporter, working the reverse psychology angle, and that’s why you’re so relentlessly over the top?
Nichevo on July 9, 2007 at 8:04 PM
Excellent. Then we will never hear the term flip flopper applied to a Republican again, right?
JackStraw on July 9, 2007 at 8:05 PM
It’s his book: The Audacity of Federalism.
Spirit of 1776 on July 9, 2007 at 8:05 PM
i’ve spent the last hour reading about how fred is gay and fred is a nazi named knox pooley.
fred’s all the rage on the left over there.
jummy on July 9, 2007 at 8:06 PM
I support Fred! because if he can win the presidency after delaying 6 months (or more?) before announcing, he will start a glorious New Age in American politics, where NOT campaigning will be the norm, where ordinary Americans will be able to spend two, three, maybe even four months between elections without having to hear the eternal banal vomit spewing forth from moron politicians. Then perhaps– someday– my grandchildren will know a world where presidential races don’t start a term- and- a- half before the election. This is my hope. This is my dream.
Wait Fred Wait!
a4g on July 9, 2007 at 8:08 PM
I’m so very much not doing that, but for people to cry on about Thompson not being against abortion enough when his
record is perfect, is insane.
Only when you isolate those three issues. There were more than three issues by the way, and the only reason he was off there is because of campaign finance reform, which was specifically linked to issue ads done by pro-life groups.
But just because someone is for campaign finance reform, it does not mean whatsoever, that he is for abortion.
It’s just not the same.
Plus, NRTO ENDORSED Thompson in 94. It makes sense that Thompson would run with that.
Again, when I look at a politician, I care very little for the hot air that comes out of his mouth. After all, Bill wagged his little finger in our faces and told us he never had sex “with that woman” before the public disgrace that was his sexual harrassment trial came to pass.
SAYING it is up to the woman is not at all pro-choice. VOTING for policies that give the woman that choice is pro-choice.
Seriously, if you don’t walk the walk, no one should listen to you when you talk the talk, no matter what you say.
This isn’t rocket science.
I could claim to be a Christian all I want, saying I believe in Jesus and God, but if I started out on a killing spree, people with any drop of common sense will call me out as a liar.
Seriously, I don’t get the comments here. Normally conservatives are all about results instead of political speak, and here, you’re trying to hang someone on his speech while ignoring what he actually did.
Yet had the reverse been true, and Thompson had always claimed to be against abortion in every form and yet voting for laws that ease restrictions on abortion, you’d be claiming he’s a fraud.
Esthier on July 9, 2007 at 8:09 PM
Because Republicans never change their votes????
Were you sleeping during the Amnesty vote?
Esthier on July 9, 2007 at 8:10 PM
And just to make this clear again, I haven’t decided how I feel about Thompson.
Had a similar thing like this been done to McCain, my least favorite candidate, I’d still be writing this.
Esthier on July 9, 2007 at 8:12 PM
I love that.
Esthier on July 9, 2007 at 8:14 PM
I agree that these campaigns started unnecessarily early.
I don’t mean to sound combative, but does it not strike you as ironic that the one candidate who is touted as ‘wisely avoiding the fray’ is one who was instrumental in creating the framework which he is ‘wisely avoiding’. (I know the wisely isn’t your word – not trying to put that on you)
Spirit of 1776 on July 9, 2007 at 8:17 PM
No. I watched them move like the unprincipled politicians they are with the exception of a stalwart few just as you did.
What I was referring to is the reputation Romney has gotten for being a flip flopper for doing exactly what Fred did. The only difference, Romney ran for governor in the most liberal state in the union. Fred ran in a very purple state. Yet, Romney is a flip flopper with 5 times the record of actual achievement and Fred is an icon.
I think Republicans by and large are much more thoughtful and principled than the clowns across the aisle. In this case, I ain’t seeing it.
As to Fred not getting in the race, my belief is a little different. He is avoiding it as long as possible so as not to have to deal with the pro-choice issue, McCain/Feingold, etc. etc. Well that and he’s not a great speaker without a script. He’s great as a scripted speaker, he is an actor. Time will tell.
JackStraw on July 9, 2007 at 8:21 PM
Contradictions of logic on that form, indeed. I’m more than willing to assume that it wasn’t read very closely by whoever filled it out.
It makes a lot more sense to judge a man by his actual recorded votes in the Senate than on some unofficial form that he may or may not have even read.
LegendHasIt on July 9, 2007 at 8:21 PM
I tend to agree. Why does a candidate have to as pure as the driven snow? They’re all politicians, they’ve all got skeletons and unflattering compromises littering the past, or they wouldn’t have made it to the big time.
In the final analysis, it’s a choice of the one who makes the most sense and inspires the most confidence here and now, not about just one issue, but on a whole host of complex crises that await the next occupant of the oval office.
Nichevo on July 9, 2007 at 8:29 PM
Sorry, I messed up on my tags somehow DOH!
LegendHasIt on July 9, 2007 at 8:41 PM
I was talking about the literal “I voted for the bill before I voted against the bill” flip-flop.
Romney’s not really hurting. His name recognition is less than the other major candidates, yet he’s consistantly in the top three, or fourth at worst.
Though to be fair, Romney, while he does have a pro-life voting record, doesn’t quite have as staunch a pro-life record as Thompson. Romney’s votes were on stem cells and other issues, not banning abortion.
Still, Romney’s accepted the flipping label having claimed he once was pro-choice, while Fred has not made that claim.
My opinion still stands that Romney’s votes speak louder than his words, but all we’ve got against Thompson is one survey taken more than a decade ago, whereas we’ve got Romney’s repeated insistence of his pro-choice stance and his only relatively recent change.
I’m not one to call Romney a flipper, and he’s someone I would support as president if he’s given the nomination, but you can’t really compare Romney to Thompson.
Esthier on July 9, 2007 at 8:47 PM
No, that is where you are wrong. He’s your non-candidate and if you’re too lazy to put some effort into finding out what the guy is really like, then you obviously do not give a crap and me dragging you to the truth is a recipe for you denying it out of hand.
When you earn the knowledge, then you own the knowledge. Why does this matter? Because I don’t give a rats a$$ if you believe me or not. Even if you did want to believe me I wouldn’t expect you to take my word for it. I’d expect you to care enough to do your own research.
csdeven on July 9, 2007 at 8:50 PM
Record trumps histrionics. Sorry, you can scream till the cows come home, I ain’t buyin’ it.
jdawg on July 9, 2007 at 8:53 PM
That is what pandering liars do.
csdeven on July 9, 2007 at 8:53 PM
You mistake me for someone who gives a rats a$$ whether you believe me or not. Do your own research.
csdeven on July 9, 2007 at 8:55 PM
I agree to a point and have argued as much in the past; however, it’s not fair to assume everyone is familiar with every little thing you bring up, and for that same reason, there’s no reason to assume others can find the information you’ve found without knowing enough about it.
How would anyone know how to find that survey without knowing anything about it other than Thompson’s possible link to abortion through it?
There’s nothing wrong with throwing out a link to support a claim from time to time.
Esthier on July 9, 2007 at 8:55 PM
With back to back questions?
There is no idiot alive who can spell his own name who would do that in order to lie.
Esthier on July 9, 2007 at 8:57 PM
This is just my opinion, but I don’t think Fred is particular pro-life, I think he is pro-ambivalent. It’s easily explains contradictory answers on a form and also accounts for his voting record – assuming that matches his constituency’s ideology.
Spirit of 1776 on July 9, 2007 at 9:00 PM
Esthier on July 9, 2007 at 8:55 PM
In an ~honest~ debate, if one makes a statement, one is required to back it up. If one cannot back up a claim, then the claim is nothing more than noise. When csdeven makes a claim, he expects YOU to research what he said. This is completely ludicrous, and is the same thing Rosie O’Donnell did every day on The View.
The best way to deal with these people is to DEMAND they back up thier statements. If they can’t, or refuse to, then they have absolutely no credibility – zip, zero, nada. None, whatsoever.
jdawg on July 9, 2007 at 9:04 PM
I therefore request a link to back up the exclamation mark used behind Fred’s name! :-)
Spirit of 1776 on July 9, 2007 at 9:08 PM
I do, when the research is hard to find, but for this stuff that is the first link in a google search EVEN if you spell the name wrong, no, people who care can do their own research. It saves time because I don’t have to explain the same facts over and over again to THE SAME PEOPLE.
When others make claims, I look for the info first and if I cannot find it, then I ask for a link.
csdeven on July 9, 2007 at 9:10 PM
Spirit of 1776 on July 9, 2007 at 9:08 PM
LOL
jdawg on July 9, 2007 at 9:10 PM
csdeven on July 9, 2007 at 9:10 PM
So, you accept the very first thing that comes up, even if it isn’t credible, or cannot be backed up with other evidence?
Also, in a debate, it is not only acceptable, but good practice, to provide sources. It lends credibility to what you are saying. If you do not/cannot/will not provide credibility to your own claims, then you have lost the issue.
jdawg on July 9, 2007 at 9:13 PM
Translation: I’ll come here and make any statements I want to without backing them up and you can’t stop me. Nyah nyah nayh!
Kowboy on July 9, 2007 at 9:16 PM
Remember too, Fred has young’uns at home now. It’s amazing what they’ll do to put you back in touch with what really matters in life. I’m 48 with a newborn so I will attest to that.
Mojave Mark on July 9, 2007 at 9:19 PM
Translation: I don’t need to proove anything, I have more knowledge than you, therefore I can be like the authors of the origional article which started this whole thing. I can sling allegations and you’ll just have to take my word for.
But will still attempt to change other peoples minds, by negative attacks…
I won’t support my candidate, I’m too busy tearing down another.
I am the epitome of negative campaigning.
Romeo13 on July 9, 2007 at 9:23 PM
I agree; I don’t doubt at all that it affected him. Just doesn’t seem at all related to his platform. I mean his reason FOR running, not the whole ‘this is who Fred Thompson is portfolio’.
Spirit of 1776 on July 9, 2007 at 9:23 PM
oh, and congratulations! :)
Spirit of 1776 on July 9, 2007 at 9:27 PM
hahaha!
This is friggen BEAUTIFUL!!!
You, the one who calls someone deranged has the unmitigated gall to pull the “honest debate” absolute moral authority card!? Especially when the claim I made was fact.
This is your response to her…..
Spare me.
csdeven on July 9, 2007 at 9:30 PM
“I’m shocked! Shocked! Shocked!”
hadsil on July 9, 2007 at 9:31 PM
Because I don’t give a rats a$$ if you believe me or not. Even if you did want to believe me I wouldn’t expect you to take my word for it. I’d expect you to care enough to do your own research.
csdeven on July 9, 2007 at 8:50 PM
DCJeff on July 9, 2007 at 9:36 PM
When I am in an honest debate I do leave links. But as I have pointed out you blew that chance the minute you started with the personal attacks. When you csdeven haters cease with the personal attacks, you will be treated as adults. But as long as you resort to name calling you’ll be treated as children who are acting out because they have nothing better to do with their time.
csdeven on July 9, 2007 at 9:37 PM
And if all you meanies keep it up he might just take his ball and go home! So there!
Kowboy on July 9, 2007 at 9:39 PM
csdeven on July 9, 2007 at 9:30 PM
Get over it. Your claims are, at best, dubious, when one takes the time to look at your so-called sources, which you admit you take the first thing that comes up on a google search. You have zero credibility on this and you can hoot and holler all you want.
DCJeff on July 9, 2007 at 9:36 PM
He sure does.
jdawg on July 9, 2007 at 9:41 PM
You have no clue who I am or why I am here. But it is clear, with all the comments in this thread that you could respond to, you choose to fixate on me personally. Are you trying to hijack this thread or is it accidental?
csdeven on July 9, 2007 at 9:42 PM
Is this the pot calling the kettle black or is it accidental?
Kowboy on July 9, 2007 at 9:43 PM
It’s flattering, all this effort you guys expend showing your love for me, but if you’d put that energy into doing your own research, you be smarter and acting maturely.
csdeven on July 9, 2007 at 9:44 PM
csdeven on July 9, 2007 at 9:37 PM
HAH! You only posted links after several days of having been pounded by several people. Now, after spouting your hatred and calling people who support Fred “empty-headed” (among other things), you cry about it.
Translation…” when you think like me, I’ll extend common courtesy to you. Meanwhile, I’ll post all the hateful cr@p I want and if you don’t like it, tough.”
jdawg on July 9, 2007 at 9:44 PM
Everyone,
This is what csdeven does with every single Fred! that exists here.
At this point, the best thing to do is ignore him.
jdawg on July 9, 2007 at 9:46 PM
Instead of running your mouth, why don’t you go back in this thread and see just who started talking about something other than fred? Thompson?
I’ll wait.
csdeven on July 9, 2007 at 9:46 PM
Remember the car wreck analogy? You don’t really want to look but…..
I think the same applies here.
Off to work. Have fun.
Kowboy on July 9, 2007 at 9:47 PM
jummy, thank you. I laughed so hard. Maybe A. Sullivan will vote for Fred. And the nazi reference because he played one – oh the laughs coming up in the next year and one half. This much fun s/b forbidden – but then again, good thing it’s not.
In the style of Mr. Bean “This is BIG“. By waiting Fred got free advice from a liberal consultant. Wait until he applies is with full force.
1. Waiting and watching – good
2. Observing csdeven – great
3. Observing the media and the Clintonistas – great
4. Applying their own advice and medicine on the ‘enemy’ – priceless (literally and effectively)
Entelechy on July 9, 2007 at 10:02 PM
Hillary and her MSM must be frantic over the Fred threat to her campaign to go with such a flimsy misdirection and it is a tasty treat to see the MSM have to alter their story to try to salvage their supposed credibility.
Buzzy on July 9, 2007 at 10:02 PM
And may your grandchildren also say “2008 was the year my grandparent/s and their compatriots took their government back, with small donations by the millions and with renewed and unabashed belief that America and what she stands for is good”.
Entelechy on July 9, 2007 at 10:07 PM
I think some people missed the important point of this post. This isn’t about Fred. This is about the MSM fabricating hit pieces on conservatives and then, after the damage is done, covering their tracks by changing their stories w/o disclosure. The MSM wins again.
TheBigOldDog on July 9, 2007 at 10:11 PM
That’s very true. I’ve known many people who changed their minds the second they had kids.
Esthier on July 9, 2007 at 10:11 PM
This just brings more attention to this and costs fred? the superficial supporters that he has enjoyed. The ones who are enamored with the “Cliff Branch” character that freddie boy played are not going to trust fred?. They are going to think he is more of the same….a lying pandering politician. (and they’d be right too, but for the wrong issue) Silence is the best option in these cases. Now these guys are starting to sound like they “protesteth too much”.
csdeven on July 9, 2007 at 10:13 PM
You and I have a history of either playing nice or not. I have to tell you, good buddy, that the reason that people respond to you is because you provoke the response. Simple matter of logic.
Ever see the Monte Python Dead Parrot sketch? You seem to play the part of the store clerk.
Tennman on July 9, 2007 at 10:16 PM
Really? How exactly does one go about forcing people to respond on a forum where they have to type their response?
And if I do have that power, I should start demanding that $100 be sent to me by each and every person who goes batty over my comments.
The mistake you make in your attempt to lay this at my feet is that these immature children CHOOSE to respond to me, just as they CHOOSE not to send me money.
As a matter of fact, I think I’ll do that from now on. Every time one of this recalcitrant children start calling me names, my only response will be…
“Give me $100.”
csdeven on July 9, 2007 at 10:21 PM
ewww… eww… I insulted them and they are responding to my insults…
But its not my fault… they started it!!!!
I’m gonna tell Mom!!!
Romeo13 on July 9, 2007 at 10:30 PM
I hope you are right. But it is worth remembering the first ‘conformation’ of his running was from long-time member of said government – Bill Frist. And he [Fred] has been urged to run by his wife – a Republican strategist.
Spirit of 1776 on July 9, 2007 at 10:42 PM
I order you to give me $100.
csdeven on July 9, 2007 at 10:44 PM
sorry Dad… can’t do that until you give me my allowance….
wahhhhh
Can I borrow the car key though?
Romeo13 on July 9, 2007 at 10:46 PM
I didn’t say “force.” I said “provoke”.
Tennman on July 9, 2007 at 10:50 PM
Another thread hijacked by csdeven. You have to admit, the guy is good at sucking up attention.
speed911 on July 9, 2007 at 11:11 PM
Hence my explanation that these children “choose” to respond.
Just like speed911 did just now. His very first comment on this thread that has tons of stuff that is on topic, and this child wants to accuse me of hijacking threads.
WOW.
csdeven on July 9, 2007 at 11:19 PM
Well, “he” is actually a she, and she elected to read the thread rather than join in the circus. But I see you protest when one does respond as well as when one doesn’t. And you call me a child.
LAUGHING
speed911 on July 9, 2007 at 11:24 PM
Buddy, you’re just too precious; if only you could see the irony in the “protesteth” coming from you. In a way, I’m glad you’re thrilled with Fred. Admit that you’re happy he’s running. Gave you a fun distraction.
Are you kidding? Must save those $$$s for Fred!
Spirit of 1776 on July 9, 2007 at 10:42 PM
Yes, Spirit of 1776 (I loved typing it :) We won’t build this government from scratch but we can recreate a period similar to the one following the “Carter malaise”.
On Frist – never liked him, except that he might be a good doctor. On Mrs. T – it wasn’t like he said “marry me honey, I’ll make you first lady some day” – it might have been more “honey, I’m thinking about running – are you with me?”, and she thought about it and then said “yes”. Heck if I know or care. I’d like for Fred/Rudi/Newt to put their heads together and come up with what’s best for America, and by extension the world.
I hope that I’m right too, for serious reasons, and on a more frivolous note – I want csdeven to buy me that drink.
csdeven, temper those thread-hijackings because your arguments would actually be stronger. Also, try not to repeat what you told us already, or maybe not so often. I’ll love you either way, even though this won’t prevent me from needling you now and then.
Entelechy on July 9, 2007 at 11:30 PM
Wow. You’re in the snark free zone. Very gently done, classy.
Mojave Mark on July 9, 2007 at 11:34 PM
MM, is it hot in the desert? Better, how hot?
Won’t stay in the zone long – just need to skip to the Moore thread next :)
Good luck with the newborn one and thanks for all your sound contributions – read most all. Best regards,
Entelechy on July 9, 2007 at 11:38 PM
Dang, man. You are like that annoying itch a person just can’t reach.
What’s up with the man-crush thing here? After months of this, you’re really starting to freak me out.
Are you seeking counseling? Maybe we could set up a fund for AP’s Iphone, and another for your professional help. Would you accept help if we offered it?
wccawa on July 9, 2007 at 11:46 PM
There is nothing I can do about the thread hijackings. People just love me and want my attention. Whatca gonna do? I have to make my fans happy.
The distraction is fun, but I get bored with the groupie mentality that defends him. I’d much rather have someone just admit that fred? has flip-flopped on abortion so we can move onto his lobbying.
I am trying to make a different assessment of fred? by eliminating all work he did as a lobbyist and a lawyer. That will take away the asbestos and dictator lobbying, but it also takes away the Roberts nomination and the Watergate trial. I cannot for the life of me get one of the fred? supporters to debate fred? in that light. I think they’d rather ignore the asbestos and dictator lobbying and tout the Roberts and Watergate involvement.
Does that seem fair to you? Should I allow them the double standard just so they will feel better? I can’t see it being an honest debate if they insist on having it both ways. But maybe they aren’t interested in honesty?
csdeven on July 9, 2007 at 11:49 PM
Yea, I agree about his wife, I was hesitant to mention it either way because I’d want my wife to support me (push me)like that too.
But that does leave 2 people who fancied themselves to be president: Bill Frist and John McCain who are his two big influences. Now both of their aspirations are dissolved and both (if he does pick of McCain’s staff) will have active influence in his candidacy. So my expectations are tempered.
In fairness to Fred, Fred himself said that he doesn’t use the term outsider, but just that there are some things about Washington he’d like to change. What things, don’t know, but the outsider label given to him.
Spirit of 1776 on July 9, 2007 at 11:56 PM
Supposing that by “them” you also meant me – well, I’m pretty honest, and I’m sure you are too – but I hope for your sake, and I’ll attest about me, that we’re not perfect. Neither is any candidate running, on either side.
For me the priorities are very simple – I listed them several times. Social issues are important to most individuals but for me it simply begins with “Hillary or Fred (or Rudy, or whoever)”, then “will we be free, and by that I mean from terrorism and soc*alism?” All other items follow these in significance. Therefore, I don’t get all wound up about what they said, did, when, with whom, for whom, where, the media’s bla, bla, bla. These are all peanuts compared to the few and very big items, especially in our times. All kidding aside, these are direly serious times which could affect all of humanity.
Ultimately, I think, we wish for the same things, at least the big ones.
Entelechy on July 10, 2007 at 12:16 AM
Nope. You are always respectful and honest. Wrong at times, but still honest. ;-)
I agree. These times are perilous. I can’t help but asking myself, aside from 9/11 and the Iraq war, are we better off than we were when Bush came to power? The economy is good, taxes are down, and we are safer, but wouldn’t most conservative presidents do that? For me, this is the time to nominate the best possible candidate that can beat Hillary. If’s that’s fred?, so be it. I think Rudy or Mitt! will be much better and I’m sure both can beat Hillary as their records speak to moderation in the general.
csdeven on July 10, 2007 at 12:31 AM
Sorry….I simply can’t support sanctuary city Rudy or gun-grabber Rudy. Can’t do it. Mitt’s ok, Fred’s ok, but never Rudy.
speed911 on July 10, 2007 at 1:04 AM
Mitt will NEVER get the southern vote. It may be sad, it may be religious bigotry, but its the cold hard truth.
Rudy? Maybe.
Hell even Huckabee has a better chance than Mitt.
Sammy316 on July 10, 2007 at 1:06 AM
After the recent shamnesty debacle, how can ANYONE support Sanctuary City Rudy?
speed911 on July 10, 2007 at 1:07 AM
I never said I supported Rudy, I said he may be electable.
Right now Fred! has my support and so far he hasn’t done anything to lose that support. FDS sufferers be damned.
Sammy316 on July 10, 2007 at 1:13 AM
Well ok then. Isn’t agreement great?
speed911 on July 10, 2007 at 1:22 AM
I for one would take exception to that. I’m heavily pro-death when it comes to killing terrorists and murderers.
As for abortion, how about simply calling it what it is: “baby killing”?
logis on July 10, 2007 at 3:07 AM
Y’know, as goofy as this whole thing is, as far as I’m concerned, the LA Times would have been perfectly honest if they had only added one tiny thing to their byline:
TOO GOOD TO CHECK!
If they want to spread some utterly irresponsible (albeit juicy) gossip because they hate somebody’s guts, that would be perfectly fine. If only they would stop constantly LYING about what they’re doing and why they’re doing it.
There is honesty in the media, but it’s all on one side of the isle.
logis on July 10, 2007 at 3:22 AM
I support Fred. I think he is the ONLY REAL Republican and conservative in the field right now. If Newt gets in he will have my vote but for now it’s Fred!
sabbott on July 10, 2007 at 3:23 AM
He portrayed a speedy, black, wide receiver for the Oakland/Los Angeles Raiders? Wow, that would take some serious acting.
Don’t worry, I’m perfectly aware that you only pretend you don’t know enough to get the character right. I don’t know what sort of pretense of integrity you believe it provides for you, but it’s terribly transparent and amusing.
On topic, there’s no “there” there, so no point in commenting.
Freelancer on July 10, 2007 at 4:23 AM
Unlike you.
After skewering him on this and taking the side of the LAT, you would think you would slink away or stand and apologize.
Funny how people will jump all over a story when it suits their purpose, and when the story turns to mush…they ignore what they said and bring up another argument.
I will say it again, we just have to wait and see how everything plays out, jumping on his bandwagon, or jumping down a candidates throat is premature. Knocking someone out now that could end up being a VP or a valued appointment would play into the hands of the Dems. We aren’t even at the starting gates, the horses haven’t even started running, and we want to put a couple down. Heck, a couple (according to the madams phone record) are till out to stud.
right2bright on July 10, 2007 at 7:31 AM
Our very own Vitter has been forgiven by god and his wife… three years ago he denied similar behavior and his wife said she would be more like Lorena Bobbit than Hillary if her hubby were to stray…
He was after all one of the ones singing the loudest about the rule of law in regards to amnesty. Prostitution is illegal in DC. Guess it is all nuance.
Would be nice if the Republicans would self police and skewer as needed when these things happen. As the other names on the list are revealed it will be interesting to see the different reactions from both parties regarding who gets held accountable.
Bradky on July 10, 2007 at 7:37 AM
Would anyone with a quarter of a brain believe anything that 5 baby killing liberals have to say regarding a staunch conservative that they fear will run away with the next presidential election? A lot can change in 16 years (from the time Fred was suppose to have done this).
What matters is how he feels about abortion now…and how he puts the fear of God into the lying libs.
lynnv on July 10, 2007 at 8:28 AM
See, this can be fun if we let it. :-)
csdeven on July 10, 2007 at 8:39 AM
Or it may be the fact that we can see through his pitiful pandering to Massachusetts liberals during his run for governor, and now is pandering to the GOP base.
On topic: Fred needs to throw his hat in. Til then, who cares.
SouthernDem on July 10, 2007 at 9:01 AM
You’re mistaking me for someone else. I didn’t jump all over this. I don’t really care about where he, or the real candidates stand on abortion because this next election will be about compromise. We may not have the luxury to pick a candidate that is socially conservative if he is the only guy that can beat Hillary.
My issue here with fred is the LYING. He was clearly pro-choice and now he is pro-life but he produced a video in which he hides behind his children and claims he has been with the pro-life crowd all along.
I can abide a lot of “nuanced” conservative positions, but basic conservative values do not have to be compromised in this election. Rudy is telling the truth. Mitt! is telling the truth concerning his conversion to pro-life. fred? is dancing around on this issue just as he is on his announcement date and his lobbying. I am offended that he wants his non-candidacy both ways. That again is a showing of fear, cowardice if you may, because he is too afraid to put it out there and take his chances. I know you supporters think this is clever and running a smart non-campaign, but I believe you are seeing his actions in whatever way fits your desire for him to be, instead of seeing him for what he is.
csdeven on July 10, 2007 at 9:07 AM
Ok, home from work. Hope you haven’t waited all this time. :)
I don’t really have to go back and see who started talking about something other than Fred, because as we all know it certainly wasn’t you. My question is: Do you troll other sites looking for Fred! posts and do the same thing there, or are we the only lucky ones?
Kowboy on July 10, 2007 at 9:08 AM
More holes being poked in this pig of a story:
http://newsbusters.org/node/13983
This just gets better and better all the time.
jdawg on July 10, 2007 at 12:07 PM
Hmmmm.
Also,
Sounds like another memogate, Hitlery-style, to me.
jdawg on July 10, 2007 at 12:10 PM
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