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“Facts” disappearing without a trace from LAT bombshell on Fred’s abortion lobbying; Update: Sununu rips ABC reporter over Fred lobbying story

posted at 5:11 pm on July 9, 2007 by Allahpundit
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Jim Geraghty posted this more than two hours ago. How on earth is it not already all over the right-wing blogosphere?

As luck would have it, I myself blockquoted that story at length and can confirm that Jim’s right. The original paragraph:

At one of the meals, she recalled, Thompson re-enacted a cowboy death scene from one of his movies. She also remembered him telling her that Sununu had just given him tickets for a VIP tour of the White House for one of Thompson’s sons and his wife.

And how it reads now, at the same URL that I linked to Friday night when the story first broke:

Thompson kept her updated on his progress in telephone conversations and over meals at Washington restaurants, including dinner at Galileo and lunch at the Monocle, she said. At one of the meals, she recalled, Thompson told her that Sununu had just given him tickets for a VIP tour of the White House for a Thompson son and his wife.

The detail about the cowboy scene is up in smoke, perhaps with good reason: as Geraghty notes, Fred doesn’t seem to have acted in any westerns before 1991. There’s no explanation for its disappearance on the LAT page and nothing on the paper’s Corrections page. And that’s not the only change. Here’s how the opening paragraph originally read:

Former Tennessee Sen. Fred D. Thompson, who is campaigning for president as a “pro-life” Republican, accepted a lobbying assignment from a family-planning group to persuade the first Bush White House to ease a controversial abortion restriction, according to a 1991 document and five people familiar with the matter.

And now:

Fred D. Thompson, who is campaigning for president as an antiabortion Republican, accepted an assignment from a family-planning group to lobby the first Bush White House to ease a controversial abortion restriction, according to a 1991 document and several people familiar with the matter.

I’m not sure what accounts for the pro-life/antiabortion change (an LAT style quirk, maybe) but here’s a possible explanation for the switch from “five people” to several. The five sources quoted in the piece in support of the claim that Fred “accepted a lobbying assignment” for the group are Judith DeSarno, Michael Barnes, and then the following three. I’m assuming nothing’s changed from the original version but at this point who can tell?

In addition to Barnes and DeSarno, three other people said they recalled Thompson lobbying against the rule on behalf of the family planning association.

Susan Cohen, a member of the association’s board of directors in 1991, said in reference to DeSarno and Thompson: “We were looking, of course, for a Republican who might have some inroads to the White House at that time, and so that’s how she came upon contacting him.”

Said Bill Hamilton, who then directed the Washington office of the Planned Parenthood Federation of America, a group that was DeSarno’s main ally in lobbying on the abortion counseling rule: “I definitely recall her reaching out to [Thompson] and engaging him in some way, and trying to squeeze the White House through him.”

Sarah L. Szanton, who worked for DeSarno as director of government relations for the family planning association, agreed that Thompson “consulted on our behalf against the gag rule.”

None of the three are as explicit as DeSarno and Barnes that Fred was retained for lobbying and did in fact lobby the White House (although the first sentence of the blockquote asserts that they did). Maybe the LAT was uncomfortable asserting in the lede that all five were unambiguously claiming that Fred had “accepted a lobbying assignment” and so it was changed to a weaselly “several” to make the actual number more ambiguous.

But in that case, why reiterate per the blockquote that “three other people said they recalled Thompson lobbying against the rule”?

The changes in the first paragraph are obviously much less important than the one about the cowboy movie, which speaks to DeSarno’s credibility. I don’t know what the story is here but for a major paper to be dropping facts and rewording passages without noting it, in a bombshell story no less, is suspicious — but not surprising. As we learned during Jamilgate, the AP pulls this crap as a matter of official policy (“For corrections on live, online stories, we overwrite the previous version. We send separate corrective stories online as warranted.”) and there’s at least one notorious instance of it happening within the very bowels of the bible of the journalism industry. Exit question: What gives?

Update: We may have an answer on the pro-life/antiabortion switch. And if so, it’s exactly what you’d expect.

Update: Sununu on the brink!

Asked if it was possible whether Thompson met with someone on his staff to lobby the first Bush White House to relax a controversial abortion restriction, the famously prickly Sununu flew off the handle.

“You know, with all due respect, may I comment on that? That’s the kind of dumb question that makes you wonder what’s wrong with the press. How do you get a job working for ABC asking a question like that? Did he meet with someone on my staff? Did he meet with someone in the street?” asked an incredulous Sununu.

Asked if he was suggesting that the abortion-rights group which claims to have used Thompson’s services had fabricated minutes from a Sept. 14, 1991 board meeting in order to undermine Thompson’s standing among conservatives, Sununu said, “I wouldn’t put anything past that group.”

Update: Patterico says the print edition of the paper didn’t contain the line about the cowboy movie, although the web version certainly did.

Update: Omri Ceren e-mails to say that the original version of the LAT story is still online — at the Baltimore Sun.


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I’m not sure what accounts for the pro-life/antiabortion change

Simple. The word “pro-life” is a positive attribute. The word “anti-abortion” sounds much more sinister and bigoted to the reader. Nobody wants to be thought of as “anti-life”, so attempting to damage Thompson by using the pro-life term is counter productive.

Gregor on July 9, 2007 at 5:19 PM

It’s like telling a lie…you have to keep telling ‘em to cover it up.

DCJeff on July 9, 2007 at 5:19 PM

What gives??? These media types will make anything up to suit their needs. That’s why we have outlets like HA.

congsan on July 9, 2007 at 5:20 PM

Oh what a tangled web we weave when we first practice to deceive.

Spirit of 1776 on July 9, 2007 at 5:22 PM

The answer is obvious. The MSM, like all Democrats, LIES!!

Any questions?

georgej on July 9, 2007 at 5:22 PM

How on earth is it not already all over the right-wing blogosphere?

I was going to post on this a couple hours ago, but hadn’t come up with anything humorous to say yet.

Of course, it’s not like that’s always stopped me…

frankj on July 9, 2007 at 5:24 PM

Here’s everything you need to know about the LA Times’ “pro=life”/”antiabortion” wording policy:

TheMediaReport.com: “‘Pro-life’ unacceptable for LA Times opera review” (2004)

There is “a strict Times policy of banning the phrase ‘pro-life’ as offensive to people who support abortion.”

DPierre on July 9, 2007 at 5:31 PM

My guess as to what happened…

People back then wanted to approach him and get him to Lobby for them… So they talked about it… so they could approove the money to do it… (thus the minutes of the board meeting).

They approached, and there was some discussion amongst Freds! lawyer buddies about it with Fred!, but Fred! never lobbied anyone.

Ahhh… but all the Dems remeber talking about this 16 years ago… but just like Libby… they don’t really remember everything said.

What they now remember is “we hired him”… not “we tried to hire him”….

Thus, when you start looking for details… they change…

Romeo13 on July 9, 2007 at 5:31 PM

This whole story was exposed as a sham over at newsbusters: http://www.newsbusters.org

Seems the LAT also forgot to mention the ties these so-called peoplep had/have with Hitlery.

jdawg on July 9, 2007 at 5:33 PM

The actual story is here:

http://newsbusters.org/node/13944

I know I’ve posted this before in another thread, but thought I would put it here also for those who might not have seen it.

jdawg on July 9, 2007 at 5:36 PM

HAHAHA

AP used “facts” and “LAT” in the same sentence.

Good one!

Almost as good as saying “iPhone” and “need” in the same sentence!

On-my-soap-box on July 9, 2007 at 5:43 PM

Looks like the LAT slammed their pen%s in the car door and now are desperately attempting to get it out…

doriangrey on July 9, 2007 at 5:44 PM

The LAT are a bunch of maroons. Classic MSM bias. Do they have a rule to avoid using the words “Pro-choice” and use “anti-life” instead?

Mallard T. Drake on July 9, 2007 at 5:44 PM

Wow, you’re outscooping Patterico on L.A. Times dishonesty and biased agenda-”reporting”.

Good one, AP!

Christoph on July 9, 2007 at 5:46 PM

Gee… What would Fred do without you guys to defend him?

Big S on July 9, 2007 at 5:49 PM

Simple. The word “pro-life” is a positive attribute. The word “anti-abortion” sounds much more sinister and bigoted to the reader. Nobody wants to be thought of as “anti-life”, so attempting to damage Thompson by using the pro-life term is counter productive.

Gregor on July 9, 2007 at 5:19 PM

How about calling abortion supporters “pro-death”?

ReubenJCogburn on July 9, 2007 at 5:50 PM

I would be a staunch anti-abortion activist, if it weren’t for all the liberals having them.
I see it as a way for them to thin their own herd.

And that’s the way it is!

TheSitRep on July 9, 2007 at 5:51 PM

I think this revelation should end the calls for Fred! to counter these allegations. How does he prove he did not do something?

Bill C on July 9, 2007 at 5:53 PM

Bill C on July 9, 2007 at 5:53 PM

I think this revelation should end the calls for Fred! to counter these allegations. How does he prove he did not do something?

Lyndon Johnston once said of one of his political opponents, “I don’t give a damn if he beats his wife, I just want to hear the SOB deny it in public”. Fred wryly has chosen to remain silent when the Clinton machine has attempted to employee that Johnston tactic against him.

doriangrey on July 9, 2007 at 5:56 PM

Big S on July 9, 2007 at 5:49 PM

This is more about outright media bias and lies than Fred!

Check it out at newsbusters.

jdawg on July 9, 2007 at 5:56 PM

The LAT is Die Frau ohne Schatten (The woman without a shadow trace).

Does the Hillary camp then claim to be pro-life, or in the abortionists’ PC yak antiabortion?

Entelechy on July 9, 2007 at 5:57 PM

How about calling abortion supporters “pro-death”?

ReubenJCogburn on July 9, 2007 at 5:50 PM

I’m all for it. Actually, “pro child murder” would be more appropriate.

Gregor on July 9, 2007 at 5:58 PM

How about calling abortion supporters “pro-death”?

ReubenJCogburn on July 9, 2007 at 5:50 PM

Heck, it would just be nice if they were called pro-abortionists instead of pro-choicers.

Esthier on July 9, 2007 at 5:59 PM

Gee… What would Fred do without you guys to defend him?

Big S on July 9, 2007 at 5:49 PM

Welcome to the Internet. Enjoy your stay.

Gee… Where would RINO Rudy be without people to defend him? Or FlipFlop Mitt? Or even on rare occasion Maverick McCain?

This was a hit piece:

1. It was 16 years ago.
2. Lawyers and lobbyists don’t always agree with those they represent.
3. There’s a lack of evidence concerning what role he actually played.

I won’t vote for RINO Rudy, but I don’t agree with the ridiculous hit piece that tried to link NYC’s crime rate with lead paint instead of Rudy’s initiatives. I won’t vote for Flipper Mitt but disagree with the Mormon hit pieces.

I realize you’re a RINO Rudy guy, but you should still be able to recognize an unfair MSM attack against one of the other candidates when you see one.

Hollowpoint on July 9, 2007 at 6:08 PM

I’ve put in a phone call and email to the LA Times asking for an explanation of the changes. Perhaps more people should do the same:

If you believe that we have made an error, or you have questions about The Times’ journalistic standards and practices, you may contact Jamie Gold, readers’ representative, by e-mail at readers.rep@latimes.com, by phone at 877-554-4000, by fax to (213) 237-3535 or by mail to 202 W. 1st Street, Los Angeles, CA 90012.

Nate A. on July 9, 2007 at 6:09 PM

Hollowpoint on July 9, 2007 at 6:08 PM

If you read the newsbusters piece on this, it looks to be more insidious than that.

jdawg on July 9, 2007 at 6:10 PM

I’ve put in a phone call and email to the LA Times asking for an explanation of the changes. Perhaps more people should do the same:

How bout an explanation of why the ties to Hitlery were covered up?

jdawg on July 9, 2007 at 6:13 PM

Heck, it would just be nice if they were called pro-abortionists instead of pro-choicers.

Esthier on July 9, 2007 at 5:59 PM

I agree. The politically correct term “Pro-Choice” sounds so good, so righteous. How could we horrible conservatives be against a woman’s right to choose? It glosses over the choice’s result–the death of a separate entity–different DNA, fingerprints, heartbeat, brain waves…

There’s your inconvenient truth for ya.

Vanquisher on July 9, 2007 at 6:13 PM

‘Let all the poisons that lurk in the mud come out.’-I Claudius

Thank you Robert Graves. You would have made a good blogger.

Limerick on July 9, 2007 at 6:17 PM

Are you telling us that fred? may have ACTUALLY told the truth?

Oh lordy! Be still my beating heart!

csdeven on July 9, 2007 at 6:20 PM

Unlike Bush, Thompson is someone who will actually defend himself from scurillous attacks such as this one from the LA Times.

Mojave Mark on July 9, 2007 at 6:20 PM

but you should still be able to recognize an unfair MSM attack against one of the other candidates when you see one.

Hollowpoint on July 9, 2007 at 6:08 PM

Agreed. If we let them get away with lies about everybody but our candidate-of-choice, we might as well just anoint President Cankles right now.

ReubenJCogburn on July 9, 2007 at 6:20 PM

If you read the newsbusters piece on this, it looks to be more insidious than that.

jdawg on July 9, 2007 at 6:10 PM

Just read it, but there’s not much more there except to point out that those making the claims are Hillary contributors and lefties. I expected that to be the case anyways, but that alone doesn’t make it untrue.

What’s disturbing is that the only evidence the LAT could come up with is a memo that said they hired him. OK, if they hired him they should be able to tell us how much he billed them, indicating how much time he put in.

Personally I’m lucky to remember what I did 16 hours ago, much less 16 years past. Hopefully Fred’s spokesperson didn’t jump the gun on the denial because it would look bad, even if an honest mistake.

Hollowpoint on July 9, 2007 at 6:21 PM

And you have now stumbled onto why I hate the electronic press. They don’t need to issue a correction, they can simply go into the archive and change history. They couldn’t do that when it was published on hard copy paper and the archive was microfilm. In order to correct the record, they had to print a correction. Now they can revise history at will and claim the mistake never existed.

crosspatch on July 9, 2007 at 6:22 PM

crosspatch on July 9, 2007 at 6:22 PM

This thread is proof that isn’t entirely true. Look, it’ll take awhile, but we’ll get sophisticated enough that we’ll be able to devise a system to nail them on shady tactics like what we caught them doing here, they’re getting away with a good lot now, but we’re getting better at beating their games.

Bad Candy on July 9, 2007 at 6:25 PM

Unlike Bush, Thompson is someone who will actually defend himself from scurillous attacks such as this one from the LA Times.
Mojave Mark on July 9, 2007 at 6:20 PM

Did fred? defend himself on this or did his staff? All I heard was fred? say that he had no recollection of the event.

csdeven on July 9, 2007 at 6:25 PM

Hollowpoint,

there’s not much more there except to point out that those making the claims are Hillary contributors and lefties.

What about the mysteriously non-existent billing records or other documents? These guys don’t do anything without a paper trail.

jdawg on July 9, 2007 at 6:28 PM

the only evidence the LAT could come up with is a memo that said they hired him.

Seems the MSM has a bit of history regarding memos, wouldn’t you say?

jdawg on July 9, 2007 at 6:28 PM

All I heard was fred? say that he had no recollection of the event.

Not true, all you read is that Fred! said such and such – I don’t think you or anyone else knows the whole, unvarnished truth, and this appears to be a scurillous hit piece done at the will of Hitlery.

jdawg on July 9, 2007 at 6:31 PM

Pro-regressives are Pro-BabyMurder! Another reason the left hates reality. Cognitive dissonance will only go so far.

GOD BLESS AMERICA!
paratisi

paratisi on July 9, 2007 at 6:32 PM

The Clinton smear machine is all about creating the appearance of wrong doing. This probably bled off some of the groupies who only support fred? because of his Cliff Branch character from TV. That’s a good start, and as we all already know, fred? has flip-flopped on abortion.

This is just the beginning. I am supremely confident that freddie boys lobbyist past is going to be a huge problem for him. Regardless of his ethics, the connection between Abramoff the lobbyist and the culture of dishonesty that surrounds lobbying, will be mentioned in passing when discussing freds? lobbying past.

csdeven on July 9, 2007 at 6:32 PM

FDS aside, this is obviously a slimy hit piece, and the AP/LAT is working overtime to bow at the feet of thier master, Hitlery, who obviously sees Fred! as a threat.

jdawg on July 9, 2007 at 6:37 PM

jdawg on July 9, 2007 at 6:31 PM

It’s clear that the Clinton smear machine is working here. That wasn’t the question I asked. Someone said fred? defended himself on this and all I read was that he personally said he had no recollection of the event. It was his staff that denied it.

csdeven on July 9, 2007 at 6:37 PM

csdeven on July 9, 2007 at 6:37 PM

And I said we don’t know ALL the story. Given the way this was done, and the fact that’s an obvious hit piece, we really can’t know the WHOLE truth about any of this, can we?

jdawg on July 9, 2007 at 6:40 PM

Dude, I don’t know how you could blog stories like this for as long as you have and then call people “Truthers” when they question an anonymously sourced hit-piece in the NYT. Maybe some day we’ll get some insight into that one…

TheBigOldDog on July 9, 2007 at 6:46 PM

jdawg on July 9, 2007 at 6:40 PM

I understand all that.

Did you read the original post I was responding to?

csdeven on July 9, 2007 at 6:46 PM

CSdeven

Thompson spokesman Mark Corallo adamantly denied that Thompson worked for the family planning group. “Fred Thompson did not lobby for this group, period,” he said in an e-mail.

In a telephone interview, he added: “There’s no documents to prove it, there’s no billing records, and Thompson says he has no recollection of it, says it didn’t happen.”

From the origional story… and I’ve posted this twice in the last two days…

Romeo13 on July 9, 2007 at 6:48 PM

Consider this from the article:

“DeSarno said the family planning association paid the firm for Thompson’s work. Marc L. Fleischaker, chairman of Arent Fox, declined to comment”

Further up in the article it says this:

“…There’s no documents to prove it, there’s no billing records, …”

So, based on a he-said/she said, we’re supposed to believe this?

jdawg on July 9, 2007 at 6:50 PM

That’s a good start, and as we all already know, fred? has flip-flopped on abortion.

Oh come on. I know you completely abhor the man for reasons I and few others here can ascertain in the sorta knee-jerk way that’s tainted your every post about him, making you appear less credible, but to claim he’s flipped on this issue is to really go overboard.

You can make the claim that he slid to the other direction, but there is nothing whatsoever to support the claim that he’s flipped and ever was pro-abortion.

Esthier on July 9, 2007 at 6:53 PM

Oh, yes, they have a copy of a memo – sound familiar?

If they can get that memo, don’t you think they’d have billing records to go along with it?

Hmmmmmm?

jdawg on July 9, 2007 at 6:53 PM

Is anyone here surprised? As always, it’s the first story, the “hit” that matters. The damage is done. If a doctor operates on someone they diagnosed with cancer, but after slicing in to them finds no cancer, that person gets to live on… but they’re left with a massive scar. The MSM are masters of this (see countless Bush “scandals” over the past couple of years that in the end didn’t pan out, but go ask the average person and the Bush White House is the most corrupt ever. The hit pieces did the damage, the corrections (if they ever publicly issue them) are buried.

Update: We may have an answer on the pro-life/antiabortion switch. And if so, it’s exactly what you’d expect.

I’m too lazy to look it up right now, but I did a brief case study (read: google and yahoo news searches) and found how often “pro-life” was used vs. “anti-abortion”, and “pro-choice” was used vs. “pro-abortion” (I would say “anti-Life”, but that term is LITERALLY never used, and we all know it never will be). Pro-choice is almost ALWAYS used instead of pro-abortion, because it puts a nicer face on baby murder. They aren’t “aborting”, they’re “choosing”.. get the subliminal message? Where as “pro-life” isn’t “pro” anything, it’s “anti” something = bad.

RightWinged on July 9, 2007 at 6:54 PM

Esthier on July 9, 2007 at 6:53 PM

What you have described is called FDS

Fred! Derangement Syndrome – very similar to BDS

jdawg on July 9, 2007 at 6:54 PM

From the origional story… and I’ve posted this twice in the last two days…

Romeo13 on July 9, 2007 at 6:48 PM

That’s his staff denying it outright and Thompson only being quoted as saying he has no memory of it.

To be fair to csdeven, that’s not the same as Thompson fighting back. Fighting back is what Bush did to us when he called us racists.

Esthier on July 9, 2007 at 6:56 PM

This must be a man of the people because it’s already FDS, when it never was GDS, but rather BDS.

Entelechy on July 9, 2007 at 6:59 PM

FDS
Feminine Deodorant Spray???

Vanquisher on July 9, 2007 at 7:02 PM

Just out of curiousity, what are most people angry about? That Fred may or may not have lobbied for a pro-choice group or that he WAS pro-choice?

On the later, there is absolutely no question and no denial.

JackStraw on July 9, 2007 at 7:03 PM

TheBigOldDog on July 9, 2007 at 6:46 PM

Well said.

Spirit of 1776 on July 9, 2007 at 7:04 PM

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19675554/

Crap… msnbc is now spreading the “story”.

I notice they did no checking on their own, just spoutin the same…

Romeo13 on July 9, 2007 at 7:05 PM

Esthier on July 9, 2007 at 6:53 PM

What is with you people? You have plenty to defend freddie boy on yet you constantly want to talk about me? It’s very strange.

And fred? did flip-flop. For the hundredth time, he filled out a questionaire in 1994 stating that he supported all abortion in the first trimester. Now he says he has always been pro-life. That is the definition of “flip-flop”.

csdeven on July 9, 2007 at 7:07 PM

Facts?! The hatemongers who wrote that BS wouldn’t know a fact if if punched them in the nose.

Dark-Star on July 9, 2007 at 7:07 PM

It’s the “truth”, but not “the whole truth and nothing but the truth”.

SouthernGent on July 9, 2007 at 7:08 PM

Esthier on July 9, 2007 at 6:56 PM

So, what’s Fred! s’posed to do, go to the LAT and punch the reporter in the mouth?

It’s not just his staffers saying it, it’s others as well, and NO ONE has produced any billing records. Good grief, if they can find an obscure memo from 16 years ago (if it’s even real), certainly they can produce a statement, or at least a cancelled check, right?

jdawg on July 9, 2007 at 7:08 PM

Romeo13 on July 9, 2007 at 6:48 PM

Yeah, ok. I read that wrong the first time I read it. Sorry for the confusion.

csdeven on July 9, 2007 at 7:10 PM

questionaire in 1994

I wish you’d provide a link to this survey. I placed one here on a different thread going back to ‘96.

jdawg on July 9, 2007 at 7:10 PM

MSNBC and fact-checking??

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

You actually expect FACTS from the people that give us Kieth Olbermann and Chrissy Matthews???

Check out the caption on the photo they have:

Former Sen. Fred Thompson, R-Tenn., running as a conservative for president, is facing claims he lobbied to ease abortion rules.

The man hasn’t even announced, yet they call him a candidate…

jdawg on July 9, 2007 at 7:14 PM

For the hundredth time, he filled out a questionaire in 1994 stating that he supported all abortion in the first trimester. Now he says he has always been pro-life. That is the definition of “flip-flop”.

csdeven on July 9, 2007 at 7:07 PM

That may have been his personal opinion, but his voting record reflected something else entirely. That to me is the only pro-life/pro-abortion opinion I care about.

In fact, I sincerely hate it when men talk about how they “personally disagree with abortion, but….” Whether Fred personally loved the idea of baby killing or not is irrelevant to him being pro-life or pro-abortion as a political person. For that, only his voting record matters, and his voting record tells the story of a pro-life candidate.

So, what’s Fred! s’posed to do, go to the LAT and punch the reporter in the mouth?

That’s not my argument, though, yes, it would be nice if he’d punch the guy. I haven’t decided yet if he’d get my vote, but punching out a LA Times reporter would certainly earn him the ! behind his name in my book.

Personally, I don’t think this story deserves much of a response.

I’m only saying that Thompson isn’t exactly fighting back, which is true. Though, I just don’t see any reason for him to fight back anyway. It’s a worthless article that proves nothing but its own bias.

Esthier on July 9, 2007 at 7:17 PM

Asked if he was suggesting that the abortion-rights group which claims to have used Thompson’s services had fabricated minutes from a Sept. 14, 1991 board meeting in order to undermine Thompson’s standing among conservatives, Sununu said, “I wouldn’t put anything past that group.”

Wonder if he meant the pro-abortion group or the media?

jdawg on July 9, 2007 at 7:18 PM

The man hasn’t even announced, yet they call him a candidate…

jdawg on July 9, 2007 at 7:14 PM

He regularly places in the top three for Republican candidates. He’d have problems on his hands if he didn’t run.

Esthier on July 9, 2007 at 7:18 PM

Esthier on July 9, 2007 at 7:17 PM

Yeah, I’d love to see that as well, but it would be nice if he demanded (loudly) that the media retract this pile of trash

jdawg on July 9, 2007 at 7:19 PM

Esthier on July 9, 2007 at 7:18 PM

True, but he hasn’t officially announced, yet.

jdawg on July 9, 2007 at 7:20 PM

Hmmm… wasn’t that 94 questionaire filled out by his STAFF???

So you’ll base your entire opinion of him, on ONE piece of paper, eroneously filled out by his Staff, and take that over his VOTING RECORD?

Romeo13 on July 9, 2007 at 7:22 PM

Romeo13 on July 9, 2007 at 7:22 PM

heh, yeah that’s what he’s saying. I’m still waiting for the link to that ‘94 survey.

jdawg on July 9, 2007 at 7:24 PM

Romeo13 on July 9, 2007 at 7:05 PM

The death of 1000 cuts, and it’s just starting.

csdeven on July 9, 2007 at 7:26 PM

FDS
Feminine Deodorant Spray???

Vanquisher on July 9, 2007 at 7:02 PM

That would be GDS.

Entelechy on July 9, 2007 at 7:29 PM

Esthier on July 9, 2007 at 7:17 PM

I don’t really care either. What I care about are his lies. Just admit that you have flip-flopped on your position and tell us why and we will decide if we believe you.

csdeven on July 9, 2007 at 7:30 PM

That may have been his personal opinion, but his voting record reflected something else entirely. That to me is the only pro-life/pro-abortion opinion I care about.

Except that it didn’t.

But since you are willing to grant him this exception, surely you will do the same for others in the race, right?

Fred Thompson ran on a solid pro-choice platform. He won’t deny this because he can’t. This keeps getting brought up and every time it is instead of people dealing with that simple issue, whoever brings it up gets slammed.

Mighty curious many or you are willing to slam away at other Republican candidates but a guy who, as was just pointed out isn’t even a candidate, somehow he is above being criticized.

JackStraw on July 9, 2007 at 7:31 PM

Romeo13 on July 9, 2007 at 7:22 PM

He signed it.

csdeven on July 9, 2007 at 7:32 PM

Fred Thompson ran on a solid pro-choice platform.

Do you have a link to something credible that can back this up?

jdawg on July 9, 2007 at 7:32 PM

I know the simplistically simple can be the stupidest of all questions – so, here I go – did O.J. Simpson’s lawyers all believe in murder? Discuss this and other defendents’/lobbyists’ cases.

Entelechy on July 9, 2007 at 7:34 PM

Wasn’t president Bush 41 a choicer until he joined the reagan ticket?

Entelechy on July 9, 2007 at 7:37 PM

csdeven on July 9, 2007 at 7:32 PM

For the hundredth time, could you please provide a link to this survey so we can look at it?

Or are we just s’posed to take your word for it?

jdawg on July 9, 2007 at 7:37 PM

Entelechy on July 9, 2007 at 7:37 PM

Wasn’t Mitt! a choicer till he decided to run for Prez?

Isn’tRudy! STILL a choicer?

jdawg on July 9, 2007 at 7:38 PM

Oh, president Reagan, please forgive the small ‘r’.

Entelechy on July 9, 2007 at 7:38 PM

So you’ll base your entire opinion of him, on ONE piece of paper, eroneously filled out by his Staff, and take that over his VOTING RECORD?

Romeo13 on July 9, 2007 at 7:22 PM

Conversely, would anyone in here believe the opinions stated on a piece of paper if it conflicted with his voting record? Meaning, if that paper had claimed Thompson was completely against abortion and yet voted routinely to support it, would anyone here believe that paper?

And if not, then why believe it now, when the exact same thing has gone on?

Esthier on July 9, 2007 at 7:39 PM

Entelechy on July 9, 2007 at 7:34 PM

It is very common for people who lobbied for dirt bags and scum sucking dogs to claim that the person deserved representation.

I don’t accept that, but I’ll play along for a minute.

If fred? can disavow his lobbying work for a dictator, then he cannot claim any credit for his lobbying for the Roberts nomination to the SCOTUS. Or any other work he did as an attorney or lobbyist. THAT leaves freddie boy losing some serious history that he uses to prove his worthiness as a non-candidate.

csdeven on July 9, 2007 at 7:42 PM

Conversely, would anyone in here believe the opinions stated on a piece of paper if it conflicted with his voting record?

Obviously so. And they won’t even provide a link to this survey so we can all see it.

jdawg on July 9, 2007 at 7:42 PM

“Well, Entelechy, not to worry. I could always feel your love and support. Remember what I contributed to the downfall of that communism you ‘love’ so much. Be good. Life is good. America is the greatest. May she be blessed for a long time to come”

–RR

Entelechy on July 9, 2007 at 7:43 PM

Except that it didn’t.

JackStraw on July 9, 2007 at 7:31 PM

Your link shows him voting for the ONLY abortion issue on the entire page.

How is this proof that the man was for abortion? If anything, it proves he was against abortion.

Esthier on July 9, 2007 at 7:43 PM

Do you have a link to something credible that can back this up?

Sure.

Murphey:

Some conservatives got flustered by your comments on abortion and Roe vs. Wade. Would you like to explain your position on abortion?

Thompson:

Government should stay out of it. No public financing. The ultimate decision must be made by the women. Government should treat its citizens as adults capable of making moral decisions on their own.

Btw, in my previous post I posted a link to the National Right to Life Organization scorecard for the 107th Congress. They gave Thompson a 33%.

JackStraw on July 9, 2007 at 7:44 PM

He signed it.

csdeven on July 9, 2007 at 7:32 PM

Even so, had the survey said he was pro-life but his voting record proved otherwise, would you still care about this survey and claim it meant he really was pro-abortion?

Esthier on July 9, 2007 at 7:44 PM

They gave Thompson a 33%.

JackStraw on July 9, 2007 at 7:44 PM

Yet only one of the issues was about abortion.

Esthier on July 9, 2007 at 7:45 PM

Thompson:

Government should stay out of it. No public financing. The ultimate decision must be made by the women. Government should treat its citizens as adults capable of making moral decisions on their own.

And yet, if he really believed that, why then would he vote to keep military from being able to have access to an abortion, which as you’ve proved with your own link, he did?

Esthier on July 9, 2007 at 7:47 PM

I don’t usually link stuff for people who are too lazy to look up the actual record of the candidate they are supporting. You obviously do not care or you would have found it as easy as I have. This will be the only and last time I do your research for you.

csdeven on July 9, 2007 at 7:49 PM

Esthier on July 9, 2007 at 7:44 PM

Are you going to friggen pay attention any time in this thread?

I don’t really care either. What I care about are his lies. Just admit that you have flip-flopped on your position and tell us why and we will decide if we believe you.

csdeven on July 9, 2007 at 7:30 PM

You get it now?

csdeven on July 9, 2007 at 7:51 PM

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