DNA reveals bugs and forests in ancient Greenland
posted at 10:13 am on July 7, 2007 by Bryan
I guess it didn’t get the name for nothing.
Armies of insects once crawled through lush forests in a region of Greenland now covered by more than 2,000m of ice.
DNA extracted from ice cores shows that moths and butterflies were living in forests of spruce and pine in the area between 450,000 and 800,000 years ago.
I may be too ignorant to figure this out, but if Greenland once had all those bugs and stuff, but is a frozen wasteland now, wouldn’t that mean that it was warmer then than it is now? So help me out here. If was warmer in the past, and it’s cold now, how can we blame humanity for this? Because it has to be our fault somehow. Manbearpig says so.
Greenland is colder now than it was a long time ago. And we’re here, polluting and clear-cutting and driving around in our SUVs. What gives? Honestly I can’t make any sense of this at all.
This either.
The ice cores also suggest that the ice sheet is more resistant to warming than previously thought, the scientists say.
“We have shown for the first time that southern Greenland, which is currently hidden under more than 2km of ice, was once very different to the Greenland we see today,” said Professor Eske Willerslev from the University of Copenhagen, Denmark, and one of the authors of the paper.
“What we’ve learned is that this part of the world was significantly warmer than most people thought,” added Professor Martin Sharp from the University of Alberta, Canada, and a co-author of the Science paper.
Or this.
The ancient boreal forests were thought to cover southern Greenland during a period of increased global temperatures, known as an interglacial.
Temperatures at the time were probably between 10C in summer and -17C in winter.
When the temperatures dropped again 450,000 years ago, the forests and their inhabitants were covered by the advancing ice, effectively freezing them in time.
I could be wrong, but there weren’t any cars around to warm Greenland up 450,000 years ago. Big Oil wasn’t even a gleam in a dead dinosaur’s eye. I took a fair amount of history back in college. I’m pretty sure I’d have heard about all those prehistoric cars if there had been any.
“If our data is correct, then this means that the southern Greenland ice cap is more stable than previously thought,” said Professor Willerslev. “This may have implications for how the ice sheets respond to global warming.”
Uh, yeah, about that global warming. If we didn’t cause the Greenland cooling, something did. Might that same something cause any warming we might be seeing now? I’m thinking it might. But I could be wrong.
Blowback
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Heh. Kind of blows the Goracle boat out of the water …
Another finding to be ignored fascist environmentalists and timid leaders averywhere.
AZ_Redneck on July 7, 2007 at 10:21 AM
What, didn’t you ever watch the Flintstones?
The problem here is that you’re dealing with this whole thing logically, Brian, not
scientificallyemotionally like the Global Warmers (I guess it must make them feel good, or bad, which makes them feel good, or … oh, never mind. I’m getting dizzy.IrishEyes on July 7, 2007 at 10:22 AM
ignored = ignored by
AZ_Redneck on July 7, 2007 at 10:22 AM
Are you challenging the word of the Goracle?
Metro on July 7, 2007 at 10:25 AM
Global warmers are morons. Why do they think the Vikings called it Greenland in the first place. Could it be BECAUSE IT WAS GREEN!
Mojave Mark on July 7, 2007 at 10:29 AM
BBC 7.06.07 reporting GL cooling doubleplusungood refs unfacts rewrite fullwise upsub antefiling
Blacklake on July 7, 2007 at 10:32 AM
lol owned by science once again
trailortrash on July 7, 2007 at 10:34 AM
Why do they think the Vikings called it Greenland in the first place. Could it be BECAUSE IT WAS GREEN!
On another note–you have to understand the Goracle. His natural environment is inside. With all the power his domicile consumes, it must be air conditioned to -300 degrees. So when he ventures outside (his unnatural environment) it’s hot, which is not natural.
His logic: “There must be global warming.”
Tennessee Dave on July 7, 2007 at 10:34 AM
I would caution you against such thinking. Just because Greenland was once warm doesn’t mean the rest of the planet was equally as green.
But you don’t get melting of 2000m of ice through a cold snap, either…
Nethicus on July 7, 2007 at 10:35 AM
And tell me why there are wooly mammoths frozen in the ice under the poles with lush, green grass still in their stomachs? Find the answers in your Bible.
warriorlawyer on July 7, 2007 at 10:38 AM
I heard a guy on KSFO once who also was telling about the findings of human settlements there from say 600 years ago that showed a vital building process that suddenly stopped due to the quick drop in temps over a short period of time, catherdrals that were started were left unfinished and the crops were not as plentiful. Must have been those Viking Hummers.
bbz123 on July 7, 2007 at 10:39 AM
the earth’s climate has been fluctuating for billions of years. And no matter how many hybrid cars we drive theres absolutely nothing we can do to keep it from continuing to do so.
Should we still try to conserve energy and find alternative energy sources? hell yes, to cut our umbilical cord from the middle east. But to think we can control the climate and make it do what we want is the height of arrogance
Keli on July 7, 2007 at 10:50 AM
Yes, arrogance and vanity mixed with the self-loathing of one’s own species.
bbz123 on July 7, 2007 at 10:53 AM
That’s the thing… there may well be warming today, it may be catastrophic in time, but it might not be global and there’s probably nothing we can do about it.
All in all, I’d rather watch my lawn turn brown than wake up one morning entombed in glacial ice.
shuzilla on July 7, 2007 at 11:02 AM
I think I understand it. Global Warming is caused by a structual imbalance. Too much wealth in the Northern Hemisphere and not enough in the South. A simple tax on carbon will fix the problem that the Goracle really cares about.
TunaTalon on July 7, 2007 at 11:04 AM
Let’s not forget that the staes of Wisconsin, Michigan, and Minnesota as well as most of Canada were under a mile of ice 15,000 years ago. It was those damn Native Americans and their cooking and heating fires that caused the ice sheets to melt!
deadbackpacker on July 7, 2007 at 11:05 AM
What’s so incredibly frustrating is that no matter how blatantly obvious it may be that the planet just cools and warms regardless of what we do, the Gorekemons still won’t believe it.
Aylios on July 7, 2007 at 11:06 AM
How do you know whether advanced civilizations sprang up between successive 22 thousand year glacial maximums or not?
Maybe we’re not the first to land on the moon.
Of course, if the earth is warming and it may be, that humans are causing it is one gigantic incredibly expensive lie.
Humans are so vain and prone to chicken little rumors.
We are puny compared to cosmic forces,
Until we can control the earths’ inclination, orbit and the effects of the sun we need to consider ourselves as insignificant in the solar system and barely molecular in our own galaxy.
We need to grow up, cast off rumor and become aware of our place in the universe before we run off on every wild goose chase concocted by the good intentions that pave the road to hell.
Speakup on July 7, 2007 at 11:07 AM
The interesting science article has nothing to do with the global warming issue. And it is completely silly on your behalf to suggest all the scientists who think believe as Al Gore does are ignorant of the earth’s climatic history.
If you want to make a serious argument against the human use of fossil fuel causing global climatic change, you probably need to argue that the current levels of creation of greenhouse gases are too small to have a climatic impact. There may be some other sensible attacks, but I haven’t seen them.
thuja on July 7, 2007 at 11:09 AM
I’m watching the “Live Earth” concerts show on Bravo…why, I don’t know…but it’s very preachy. Haven’t they realized that these concerts-for-causes really don’t do much?
I just can’t get over the hypocricy of carbon footprint awareness, when these concerts must have one big shoe on.
It would be like PETA hosting an “awareness” pig roast.
JetBoy on July 7, 2007 at 11:09 AM
If this was ever about science, it’s not now.
“Global Warming” is about the EU and international sociali$m advancing the cause of New Soviet Man in the post-USSR era. If they can regulate travel and lifestyles by “carbon credits,” they can further the State’s control over the freedom of the individual.
I’d welcome an honest Green agenda, but that would require difficult techlological choices, such as increasing nuclear power generation or market-wide dual-fuel car mandates. But so far, all the Global Warming crowd has seriously proposed is more taxes and a fine program of America-bashing. Feh.
I know you guys know this, but I just had to rant a little….
Anton on July 7, 2007 at 11:17 AM
http://www.devilslakewisconsin.com/iceage/index.html this show a great picture of the extent of the glaciation. Greenland is buried under ice.
deadbackpacker on July 7, 2007 at 11:17 AM
The threat-fear of the global warming-istas is the build-up of CO2.
One a left-leaning radio station, NPR, on June 1, 2007, in their Science Friday program, the interviewer Ira Flatow had a guest, Klaus Lackner, who has devised a technological solution for “scrubbing” CO2 from the atmosphere using louvred vanes coated with a material that sucks this “greenhouse gas” from the air.
In effect, the C02 problem has been scientifically solved.
All that is needed is for the technology to be implemented.
Which makes all fears of CO2/globally warming moot.
Because we have the means of reducing it from the air. And that means (to the distress of the warming-istas) that we need not change any of our behaviors that add CO2 to the atmosphere.
And the purpose behind Gore’s EARTH concerts is voided.
Why this news has gotten NO notice in the MSM, even though it was broadcast by their ally NPR, is baffling.
Could it be that they don’t want to admit that science has solved their fund-raising panic-cow? And that carbon footprint/offsets/warming talk has been rendered irrelevant?
As for Greenland’s past warmer days, it was probably neo-lithic bovine belches.
profitsbeard on July 7, 2007 at 11:18 AM
Everybody knows that Fred Flintstone had a car. What’s the problem?
dalec on July 7, 2007 at 11:24 AM
These findings will be ignored by Gore’s lackeys and suppressed by the media. There’s a heat wave in the West, which is ‘proof’ global warming is happening; who expects it to be hot in summer? All those concert-goers are also sure to agree with Gore after standing in the sun all day. After all, if the facts don’t conform to the theory, said facts must be discarded.
Liam on July 7, 2007 at 11:33 AM
Dinosaurs were obviously expelling aresols of sorts. If the dinosaurs had been capable of buying sulphate aerosol offsets, they could have prevented global cooling and saved their a$$es from extinction.
All hail manbearpig! He will save us with carbon offset opportunities!
csdeven on July 7, 2007 at 11:34 AM
The evidence is mounting that this ol’ earth was slightly different than it is now (fred’s car not withstanding) -
rhino fossils in the arctic, tropical flora and fawna buried in the siberian permafrost, and marine fossils on mountain tops. Yup, odd stuff indeed.
Speaking of odd; manbearpig has definitely found a modern cash cow buried in the liberal mush of government school products, and manbearpig will laugh all the way to the bank peddling its “>bullshtt.
locomotivebreath1901 on July 7, 2007 at 11:47 AM
I just thank god that this concert kicked off. What would we do without celebrities to show us the “way”. I mean look at how well Live Aid worked out for Africa. Food for everyone, religious freedom, peace and tranquility. Could you imagine what Africa would be like today without the efforts of those wonderful 80′s pop stars? Pandalerium I tell ya! Anyways I remember watching “In Search Of” with Spock back when I was a kid and the “coming ice age” episode. I was terrified that Michigan was going to turn into a big Ice cube and I would be frozen in time right in the center. Well guess I made it. And as far as the CO2 air scubber thingy, isn’t that kind of like the Air purifier/Ionizer things they sell for the unbelievably low price of 39.95? And if you buy now you get a car adapter? So theoretically if we all bought one and plugged them in, we’d be good to go right?
gator70 on July 7, 2007 at 11:50 AM
Here’s my theory. After watching the video on youtube showing that the Earth was actually smaller…one big land mass. (the continents fit together perfectly if the Earth was a smaller sphere) I’m thinking that the earth was covered with a water canopy (described in Genesis) so it really was one big greenhouse (with some sort of mist system) which would make even Greenland lush and green until the flood. After the flood the Earth had changed or was changing drastically.
Just my theory, don’t change the textbooks….yet. ;0)
jjjen on July 7, 2007 at 11:53 AM
Medieval Ice Age baby
Defector01 on July 7, 2007 at 11:54 AM
That was strange…ok, the purple text above is the link to the video.
jjjen on July 7, 2007 at 11:54 AM
I think you missed the point as badly as the scientists did Bryan. If Greenland, which is extremely far north, used to have a forest on it… maybe Greenland wasn’t always so far north?
j_ehman on July 7, 2007 at 11:59 AM
Then you haven’t been looking. There are articles and books being written that dispute the whole global warming debate. For starters try The Politically Incorrect Guide to Global Warmming and Enviromentalism, by Christopher C. Horner.
Mallard T. Drake on July 7, 2007 at 12:06 PM
Not aerosols, poots. Just as the cows today contribute significantly to the CO2 in the atmosphere with there gaseous emmissions, maybe the dinosaurs farted their way to extinction.
Mallard T. Drake on July 7, 2007 at 12:09 PM
Why don’t we send the Goracle in to space so that he can view the magnitude of the Earth and see that Man and his effects are really very tiny. A little perspective may broaden Al’s outlook and open his mind.
Mallard T. Drake on July 7, 2007 at 12:11 PM
There’ll always be somebody that hasn’t seen it–especially with all the new faces around here. And as rants go, that was pretty brief. :)
As some others have said, anybody that remembers the “New Ice Age” hysteria back in the 70s has seen all of this before. And the fact that it was necessary for “Global Warming” to morph into “Climate Change” when the data didn’t fit just shows you how full of crap they are. I’m sorry, but just because Al Gore wants to get rich off of selling bogus “documentaries” and
indulgences“carbon offsets” to gullible people doesn’t mean that I have to go along with it.ReubenJCogburn on July 7, 2007 at 12:31 PM
Yup. Environmentalism is just recycled Communism. Green on the outside, red on the inside.
infidel4life on July 7, 2007 at 12:37 PM
The Co2 issue can be explained by one small experiment.
Take a bottle of soda pop. Place a balloon over the top.
Heat the bottle slowly. Watch the balloon fill up.
Results:
The balloon fills up with Co2 released from the liquid. As you warm a liquid it can not hold as much gas.
Now think of the oceans which are filled with CO2. As the SUN heats the oceans, CO2 is released in large quanities.
Therefore CO2 is an effect of global warming not a cause. The cause is of course the SUN.
Case closed..
NEXT
unseen on July 7, 2007 at 12:39 PM
Obviously, you’ve never watched the Flintstones or you would know they had SUV type vehicles. Just look at what Fred drove. Those cavemen ‘raped’ the earth. They didn’t listen to the threats of global warming coming from the polution of all of the the dino-dung ™ and now WE are paying for it.
The Gore’acle says it and I believe it. After all he invented the Internet
stanfil2 on July 7, 2007 at 1:24 PM
No! Say it ain’t so.. You meant to say that Algore is full of s*&^t.
He is playing on our fears!!
TheSitRep on July 7, 2007 at 1:29 PM
So all that Greenland ice was melted and the earth was not fooded? Still, Gore is super serial.
BDavis on July 7, 2007 at 1:30 PM
“Environmentalism” is revealing itself to be what it always was: mass psychosis.
Halley on July 7, 2007 at 1:40 PM
If you want to see a REAL scientist talk about global warming and natural climate fluctuations.
Watch this
He blow hole after hole in the IPCC crap
TheSitRep on July 7, 2007 at 1:41 PM
unseen
Absolutely correct. That idiots follow a clown like Al Gore around, as he tells them that Carbon Dioxide is a dangerous poison, and they freakin’ believe it, says a lot about the critical faculties of our lefty brethren.
Martin on July 7, 2007 at 1:42 PM
unseen on July 7, 2007 at 12:39 PM
Have I ever told you that you are a ruby on the beach?
RushBaby on July 7, 2007 at 1:45 PM
don’t forget the ‘little ice age’ that happened between the years 1150 and 1460 in Europe. Crops were affected, there were famines, some even say it was the cause of the black death
Keli on July 7, 2007 at 1:48 PM
some people were even burned at the stake as witches because they were blamed for the increasing cold. We have our own witchhunt on today as well. The more things change, the more they stay the same
Keli on July 7, 2007 at 1:52 PM
The key point, however, is not that it was warm there 800,000 THOUSAND years ago…it was warm there just 800 YEARS ago. It didn’t get the name Greenland from some fossils; it got the name from Vikings who set up settlements there and farmed for hundreds of years. Then it got cold, as it dies cyclically. Now it’s getting warm as it does cyclically….but who’s listening?
Blaise on July 7, 2007 at 1:54 PM
In the core sample was an image of Mother Nature giving the finger to Al Gore.
MaiDee on July 7, 2007 at 1:55 PM
That’s what I was gonna say, but I looked up the “science” behind the global cooling hysteria from the 70′s and they blamed it on aerosols.
csdeven on July 7, 2007 at 2:03 PM
Real science and Witch Doctors.
Tis easier to believe in what the Doctor tells rather than actual observation.
So it was then, so it is now.
Kini on July 7, 2007 at 2:28 PM
Anyone see the BBC-4 report called “The Great Global Warming Swindle?”
I downloaded it when it was available on Google.video and I have never seen a better refutation of Manbearpig’s idiocy (actually, a bunch of rabid lefty commie US-hating bastard idiocy) in my life.
Science? What science?! This is all political propaganda to curb America’s industrial dominance. Nothing more, nothing less.
The Goracle is a tool!
thejackal on July 7, 2007 at 2:35 PM
This news breaks on the same day as Algore’s big, self-righteous circle jerk of multi-continental gaia-musik? I’d question the timing if I weren’t so busy questioning their intelligence.
I’m off-setting all this by grilling spotted owls on a very large charcoal grill.
SailorDave on July 7, 2007 at 2:40 PM
Yum, spotted owl!
Buzzy on July 7, 2007 at 2:43 PM
Yes, many of us have.
Plus, anyone with a lick of sense would never trust a former politician with no science background playing Mr. Wizard.
It’s all about the
carbon creditsmoneyKini on July 7, 2007 at 3:02 PM
The fact that there used to be bugs in Greenland conclusively prooves that global warming is a farce. Because if the Earth once was warmer for reasons other than CO2 emissions, it logically follows that it is impossible for CO2 emissions to also cause global warming. Also, Al Gore is fat.
Take that, liberals!
e-pirate on July 7, 2007 at 3:04 PM
I’m confused about your science experiment. You see, if you filled a pop bottle with anything, from water to oxygen to Nitrogen, to Carbon Dioxide (and so on), and then heated it, it absolutely would expand a balloon, as heated air expands. I’m not sure how filling a balloon with warm air prooves anything.
I’m also interested in your theory that the sun causes CO2 to “come out of the ocean” at an increased rate. Where does that CO2 come from?
Thanks in advance.
e-pirate on July 7, 2007 at 3:09 PM
The Vikings named Iceland to keep more people from coming and Greenland to get them there. Iceland was warmer in the Middle Ages as was all of Europe, all due to the natural actions of the sun, and it’s effect on the oceans.
I’m sure the Gore family was around back then trying to convince everyone that the Earth was flat and holding concerts to raise money.
Hening on July 7, 2007 at 3:13 PM
Any links to back up those claims? Because the ocean the biggest producer of Oxygen on the planet. Here are some links for you: 1, 2, 3.
The truth is carbon damages the (stratospheric) Ozone layer (When O3 is split into O2 and O1 Carbon attaches itself to the Oxygen in the Ozone which doesn’t allow it to repair itself at night). When the Ozone layer is damaged more harmful radiation from the sun enters the Earth. When this radiation enters the Earth not only are humans directly affected, but we’re affected indirectly when these rays begin to melt the ice in our oceans. So when people say “the sun is to blame,” duh. The UV rays from the sun are what is causing Global Warming, but the only reason they’re able to reach us in large quantities is because the O3 is depleting because of the Carbon we produce and the Carbon nature produces.
Nonfactor on July 7, 2007 at 3:32 PM
Maybe my elementary teachers didn’t know what they were talking about…but I was always taught that the Vikings discovered two lands: one was green and beautiful and they wanted it for themselves so they named it Iceland. The other land was cold and covered with ice and snow and to continue their deceit, it was named Greenland. But this was taught back in the 4th grade. (Over 20 years ago) Who knows what they’re teaching now.
Joshua P. Allem on July 7, 2007 at 4:10 PM
I’m never going to understand how anyone with a functioning brain and even the foggiest notion of human history falls for the global warming silliness.
It’s been far warmer in the past; I’m currently sitting in a spot that was once underwater. It will warm up again. It will cool again – and the next ice age will arrive right on schedule. In fact, it’s due within the next couple hundred generations, so if we were really intelligent, we’d be working on feeding the population once the glaciers start moving again.
As they always have. As they always will. Until the next warming phase. Until ultimately in roughly five billion years, the sun cools and expands and the entire planet Earth turns to a crispy critter before being boiled off into space.
It’s called weather. It’s called nature. Get used to it. Al Gore can try as he might, be he’s not going to hold back that ice age, and the Earth is still scheduled for demolition eventually.
All “global warming” has accomplished is giving our kids and grandchildren something to mock us for when they watch VH-1 “I love the 00′s” in the 2045.
They’re gonna think we were really silly. Hell, I’m still laughing at the “population bomb” silliness of the 80s. Is it forgotten so soon that half of us were supposed to have starved by now and the population was supposed to be minimum 9 billion?
Anyone curious about the actual facts on global warming, I highly recommend Michael Crichton’s “State of Fear.” Not a bad story – and you’ll get a chuckle out of the global warming debunking, too. Check his footnotes. I did it. Impressive stuff. He’s going to be very, very hated. :)
Meanwhile, while we laugh at the simpletons falling for the simplistic and getting all hysterical about it … actual terrorists are killing actual people and have already actually attacked our country ….
Sigh. When the terrorists eventually do explode a nuke … do you think the silly liberals will at least have the consistency to get made at them for tossing all that wasted energy around and polluting the atmosphere?
Professor Blather on July 7, 2007 at 4:10 PM
Get made, of course, means get MAD. Close enough for subsidized government work.
There’s the money post. Sums it all up.
Hey, for fun … any guesses on what the next baseless hysteria will be? We should start a pool or something.
I’m thinking alien invasion. That was big in the ’50s. Retro is in, so I’ll bet it comes back. I’ve got dibs on “aliens attacking.” I figure within 10-20 years, a future Goracle ManBearPig (or heck, maybe it’ll be Al himself!) will be preaching the imminent danger of Martian attack.
Hell, it makes more sense than global warming. Plus, its way sexier. Laser death rays are so much kewler than carbon emissions off-sets, don’t you think?
What’s your guess? Tell you what – figure it out far enough in advance, and you could make some big bucks. Imagine if 20 years ago you’d seen this stupidity coming and you’d cornered the market on off-sets, and recycling, and “green” silliness of every type. You could make millions.
I’m going to go start making “Impeach Bush, the Aliens are his fault” bumper stickers now. Hey, maybe aliens are causing global warming? Hmmm. Think the suckers would fall for it?
I’m gonna be so rich.
Just like Al Gore.
Awesome.
Professor Blather on July 7, 2007 at 4:20 PM
If the earth started cooling tomorrow they’d blame that on global warming, too. It’s a hysteria that has exacly 0% to do with “concern for the environment” (which is in great shape, anyway).
Halley on July 7, 2007 at 4:26 PM
what is it in the make up of the left that gives them this overblown sense of self, that convinces them that they and they alone know whats best for the rest of the world? That they are the only ones who can be trusted to do whats best with everyone elses money for example, or to continue to hammer away at the US while china moves into number one on the pollution top 10? Despite unlimited information readily available that demonstrates human contribution to the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere is minimal and insignificant,( and that CO2 contributes, at most, 2.5% of the “greenhouse affect”) what is it that makes them insist that they are so omnipotent to believe the trivial efforts of man can 1. alter and adversly affect the atmosphere of this planet, or 2. do anything to halt and reverse what has been repeatedly shown to be a normal cycle of climate change?
The “goreians” with their arrogant claims remind ME of nothing so much as the amorous male ant crawling up the leg of an elephant cow, reassuring her all the way that he will be “gentle” with her
anyone who sees “global warming” as “the greatest threat facing humanity” should recall that it was “a new ice age” 20 years ago, and “worldwide famine before the turn of the century” 30 years ago.
CBP
…the will of the masses is divided by far-reaching distortions and the mass mind is corrupted by a knowledge worse than ignorance because it is false.
Ely Culbertson
colorfulbeachpersona on July 7, 2007 at 4:30 PM
I would like to second Professor Blather on this one. Anyone who wants to know the truth about global warming will find all they need in this novel.
You might think it doesn’t make sense to look for facts in a novel, especially a novel where the authors of studies quoted in such novel have come out and said Chrichton distorted their findings, but you’d be wrong.
e-pirate on July 7, 2007 at 4:32 PM
Why don’t we send the Goracle in to space
That’s what I want to know, too.
NellE on July 7, 2007 at 4:34 PM
I used to have a long list of things like this.. like the fact that the dino-era Atlantic was a hot tub, that the arctic was a tropical paradise, etc. etc. and that I know there are some big SUVs, but I wasn’t aware that dinosaurs fit in and drove them so irresponsibly! “We didn’t listen!” (Anyone seen that South Park?) I could go on and on, I used to whenever threads like this come up… like pointing out that recent study has shown that Greenland’s glaciers have been NATURALLY melting for over 100 years. That many glaciers around the world are growing. That “global warming” isn’t causing ice on Kilimanjaro to melt. etc. etc. again, I used to list these types of things but it’s just gotten old, and I’m not really up for it right now.
Let’s just agree that global warming is crap. It’s related to solar activity, not carbon. Let’s not worry about informing the idiots that 30% of methane (carbon’s sidekick) comes from plants, and methane is something like 40 times more potent of a green house than carbon. Let’s not bother telling them that if they’d simply stop breathing they could eliminate their carbon footprints completely. Let’s not boggle their minds when asking “What caused the starting and ending of ice ages if not for factories and SUVs?”
None of this matters… they’ve brainwashed the younger generations and you can’t tell a bunch of kids who think they’re “making a difference” to wake up, particularly when you’re outnumbered by the foot soldiers in the media and school systems.
Just sit back and watch this happen, and don’t tell me and other “conspiracy theorists” like me that we didn’t warn you
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=070312082025.2ra592h4&show_article=1
(NOTE: Brown is no longer the likely PM. HE IS the PM. Yeah, the same guy who said not to use the words “terror” or “Muslim” when talking about last weeks Muslim terrorist attacks.)
RightWinged on July 7, 2007 at 4:38 PM
Exactly. If Somebody steals 10 dollars from you, and somebody steals 9 dollars, well then why would you focus on the guy who stole 9, when the guy who stole ten is the number one contributor to your current empty wallet, and focusing on guy number 2 is a useless waste of time!
Again, I totally agree! CO2 is such a small amount! If you were drinking a glass of lemonade, and like 3 percent of the drink was rat poison, well that wouldn’t matter at all because small amounts of things don’t impact anything!
Nature is too big and too resistant to anything man wants to do. That’s why humans have always been unable to cut down forests, create lakes, or drain swamps.
e-pirate on July 7, 2007 at 4:40 PM
That’s pretty ignorant. Lets say nature produces 90% of the CO2 on this planet and humans produces 10%. Everyone would agree that nature gives out a lot more CO2 than humans, but say the Earth can only handle a 95% load of CO2 before the Ozone really gets beat up and allows UV-B rays into the Earth’s atmosphere. That 10% humans give off isn’t so insignificant anymore, and seeing as how we can’t control what nature gives off (unless we decide to plant a lot more trees), to prevent the Ozone from depleting we need to regulate our CO2 emissions.
Nonfactor on July 7, 2007 at 5:03 PM
It’s the Sun. Really. It gets hotter sometimes. And at other times we’re closer to it (like in summer) or further away. There are even vast cycles of greater and lesser distance from the Sun that drive climate and the Sun’s magnetic fields also interact with our atmosphere (but mostly it’s the heat).
link 1
link 2
link 3
The last one in particular is interesting, and if you’re a global warming religiously motivated mind numbed mental midget, it’s doubtful you will even read that one, much less all three.
And you certainly won’t read each and every article written by scientists here because, then you’d have to:
a) acknowledge there are some DAMN strong arguments on the other side
b) embarrass yourself by denying the above with lame reasons and appeals to “scientific consensus”… something which history has shown dozens of times means squat
Truth is determined by physics et al., not by “consensus”.
Christoph on July 7, 2007 at 5:26 PM
It’s the Sun. Really. It gets hotter sometimes. And at other times we’re closer to it (like in summer) or further away. There are even vast cycles of greater and lesser distance from the Sun that drive climate.
link 1
link 2
link 3
Christoph on July 7, 2007 at 5:28 PM
The last one in particular is interesting, and if you’re a global warming religiously motivated mind numbed mental midget, it’s doubtful you will even read that one, much less all three.
And you certainly won’t read each and every article written by scientists here because, then you’d have to:
a) acknowledge there are some DAMN strong arguments on the other side
b) embarrass yourself by denying the above with lame reasons and appeals to “scientific consensus”… something which history has shown dozens of times means squat
Truth is determined by physics et al., not by “consensus”.
Christoph on July 7, 2007 at 5:28 PM
Good point. It’s another of the things that cracks me up about the enviro-left whackos: by most rational, objective standards we have made enormous improvements in the past 30-40 years.
There are far more trees in the U.S. today than in 1907, for example. The water is many magnitudes cleaner than it once was. The cities with the worst pollution problems – like L.A., where I just was for the last 6 weeks so I can attest to the truth of it – have made enormous improvements (they ain’t perfect … but it wasn’t that long ago you couldn’t see Catalina or the San Gabriel mountains from the top of Palos Verdes Penisula because of the smog … and now you can do it frequently).
Not to mention little things, like life expectancies doubling in a century. Or my personal favorite you probably heard about just recently – our own American bald eagle! When I was a kid in the 70s, it was on the brink of extinction. If I remember right, there were only a few dozen mating pairs left in the wild.
They just took it COMPLETELY off the endangered list. It’s thriving. Apparently its even become something of a nuisance in parts of Canada, Alaska, and northern Michigan.
The problem isn’t the environment any more than its racism or homophobia or anything else liberals bleat about endlessly.
The problem is that they just want to bleat. They define themselves entirely by having something to protest.
They’ll move on to the next thing soon. (Those aliens, I’m telling you … they’re coming).
Professor Blather on July 7, 2007 at 5:30 PM
Finally… there’s an open question among scientists who study the Sun’s driving of climate, and the Sun is at the center of all life in the solar system so this DOES intuitively make sense, in addition to rationally, whether it’s the Sun’s magnetic field’s interaction with our atmosphere or simply fluctuating heat based on internal dynamics within the Sun or greater or lesser distances from the planets over long periods of time.
But the main driver of climate isn’t cars.
Christoph on July 7, 2007 at 5:31 PM
I couldn’t agree with you more.
Christoph on July 7, 2007 at 5:32 PM
With mango salsa.
csdeven on July 7, 2007 at 5:35 PM
Global warming is a hoax. CO2 levels follow warming trends, they do not cause them. IN addition, CO2 is small player in the greenhouse gas game. Water vapor contains much more heat that CO2.
The Great Global Warming Swindle video explained it all. But Youtube pulled it, and Google video pulled it too. It had prestigious academics and scientists putting the lie to the whole scam.
http://www.greatglobalwarmingswindle.co.uk/ is the site but does not host the hour long video.
The earth repeatedly goes through temperature changes in accordance with solar activity. In the middle ages, Europe was so warm, that grapes grew in England.
Man-made global warming is just marxism in a new guise. Even the former co-founder of Greenpeace, Patrick Moore, says that the environmental movement today has been taken over by former marxists after the fall of the Berlin Wall and the Soviet Union forced them to give up on political marxism and move into economic marxism using global warming as the cause.
The video is fascinating. Too bad the MSM won’t show it, no TV station in America will show it, and Google and Youtube pulled the video from their archives.
jihadwatcher on July 7, 2007 at 5:37 PM
jihadwatcher, now I agree with you 100%. I’m also a fan of Patrick Moore, who is from my home province of British Columbia, Canada, for his honesty.
Not many people change their opinions in their middle years and he did. That speaks volumes to his openmindedness, independence, and courage.
I wish I knew where to see that video. I’ve heard there are some problems with it, for example, one scientist agreed with the data and statements he was quoted during it, but was aghast that his friends saw him on the video and states he believes in global warming.
I’m sure he does. It doesn’t change the data or his statements.
There ARE major problems with the CO2 causing global warming mythology. Not least of which because CO2 is a latent indicator.
Christoph on July 7, 2007 at 5:53 PM
It’ll be pulled again, no doubt, but currently the Great Global Warming Swindle is here on YouTube.
I wonder why it was pulled. Controversy or copyright issues? If it was the latter, then I respect YouTube for pulling it. I see http://www.greatglobalwarmingswindle.co.uk/ is selling a copy of the DVD and that is certainly their right.
Christoph on July 7, 2007 at 5:55 PM
Shame that the Goracle had to sacrifice his son, who was rushing all those contract codicils to NJ as fast as his Prius could travel.
SailorDave on July 7, 2007 at 5:57 PM
There are a long list of “impending doom for the human species” theories that have been proven to be just wrong.
DDT in Silent Spring… IT CAUSES CANCER!!!
Unsustainable population growth in Population Bomb… WE ARE GONNA STARVE TO DEATH!!!
Global Cooling in the 70′s… WE ARE GONNA FREEZE TO DEATH!!!
And now Gloabl Warming in An Inconvient Truth… WE ARE GONNA DROWN/BURN TO DEATH!!!
I am always suspect of a person who tells me the world as I know it is ending, and the only way to save it is to DO WHAT THEY SAY.
VolMagic on July 7, 2007 at 6:25 PM
I’ve bookmarked those links. Interesting stuff. Thanks.
I was watching Hannity a while ago and he was all into the whole DDT issue and how the author of Silent Spring is responsible for the spread of malaria. I couldn’t agree more.
You forgot though about acid rain and the atom bomb. Those were a couple of other good scare tactics. ;)
Ryan Gandy on July 7, 2007 at 6:32 PM
Yes, acid rain. Remember acid rain from the ’80s? Funny, how nobody talks about acid rain anymore, eh?
Why?
Because it, too, was a fraud.
They found a couple lakes with high acid levels and screamed that all the lakes would be destroyed. Never happened. The whole thing was hyped for political reasons. Nobody ever admitted to the fraud. Nobody ever apologized for being wrong. The media never followed up on the story. And we know why. The environmentalists just quietly tip-toed away.
But again, it was a way to make capitalist America the bad guy. Again, the solution was to curtail emissions by cutting back on production. If the marxists can’t beat America with the might of communist production, as they said they would decades ago, they then try to bring down capitalist production. With scare tactics.
Remind anyone of the Fairness doctrine? If you can’t fight on a level field, then get rid of the opposing team. That is what man-made global warming is about.
jihadwatcher on July 7, 2007 at 6:51 PM
it is harder to find anything that impacts the “greenhouse effect” less, yet impacts the way we all live than CO2 levels and emmissions, which is EXACTLY why the eco-nazis selected CO2 to be the latest in their long litany of “global emergencies”. Regulate the emmisions of CO2 and control the world, and how we all live.
in the colorful words of Professor Reid A. Bryson when speaking of the impact of CO2 on the “greenhouse affect”:
…how much is absorbed by carbon dioxide? Eight hundredths of one percent. One one-thousandth as important as water vapor. You can go outside and spit and have the same effect as doubling carbon dioxide
colorfulbeachpersona on July 7, 2007 at 7:05 PM
should read……impacts the way we all live live MORE…
sorry
colorfulbeachpersona on July 7, 2007 at 7:17 PM
You forgot bird flu and SARS.
I just have to say you missed the mark on that one (unless you live in the southern hemisphere). In the northern hemisphere we’re actually closer to the sun in winter… it’s an axis thang! In fact we were the furthest we’ll be from the sun all year just 3 days ago.
RightWinged on July 7, 2007 at 7:25 PM
Touché.
Christoph on July 7, 2007 at 7:59 PM
Yes, back then they were after witches. Today they’re going after people who use toilet paper. (Yikes!) Somehow we need to convince the gore-bots to go after the witches again…lol.
Cheesestick on July 8, 2007 at 5:26 AM
I read the full version of that story in Science magazine. Here a great quote:
“The discovery of organic matter in ice, dating from half a million years ago offers evidence that the Greenland ice shield remain frozen even during the earth’s last interglacial period, some 120,000 years ago, when average temperatures were nine degrees Fahrenheit warmer than they are now.”
Nine degrees in the global average is huge. And that was before the rise of man and the industrial age. This current “global warming” is all part of a large natural cycle.
Paul the American on July 8, 2007 at 8:29 AM
Then Atlantis sunk beneath the waves, taking 5 billion “proto-SUVs” with it, according to world-renowned expert in global climate, Al Gore. “Atlantis is submerged beneath the waters of George Bush’s Maine vacation home. There they, along with big oil, hide the awful truth.”
“They [the Atlanteans] used carbon-emitting flux capacitor-type propulsion,” the former Veep theorized following a long drive in his son’s Prius, “Dude, let me tell ya, they totally destroyed the planet.”
coondawg on July 8, 2007 at 9:21 AM
Oh, how could I forget acid rain?
That was a good one! People were all excited for a while there.
And really, acid rain is so much cooler than global warming, isn’t it? Even the name … ACID RAIN. Much sexier.
But not as good as my impending ALIEN INVASION. It’s coming. Remember where you heard it first.
Professor Blather on July 8, 2007 at 11:13 AM
Well, wrong or not, your postulations herein are based on just as much real science as the Goracle’s theories.
Lawrence on July 8, 2007 at 2:28 PM
You forgot “The Sky is Falling”. Remember that story when we were kids about the little chicken?
Except that Gore isn’t a little chicken. He’s a big fat chicken.
Lawrence on July 8, 2007 at 2:35 PM
Don’t forget that according to one group, the world was going to end in 1925.
No talkies!
No computers!
No color t.v.!
No jet planes!
But, then we would have avoided all the acid rain, the new Ice Age, global warming and the George Forman grill.
profitsbeard on July 8, 2007 at 11:14 PM
The Globe is not warming. Case closed.
Maxx on July 9, 2007 at 11:27 AM