Guess what: You can’t be a Muslim and a Christian and a priest at the same time after all

posted at 11:12 am on July 6, 2007 by Bryan

Well, whodathunkit? There is an Episcopalian bishop with her head screwed on straight.

The Rev. Ann Holmes Redding, a local Episcopal priest who announced she is both Muslim and Christian, will not be able to serve as a priest for a year, according to her bishop.

During that year, Redding is expected to “reflect on the doctrines of the Christian faith, her vocation as a priest, and what I see as the conflicts inherent in professing both Christianity and Islam,” the Rt. Rev. Geralyn Wolf, bishop of the Diocese of Rhode Island, wrote in an e-mail to Episcopal Church leaders.

Redding was ordained more than 20 years ago by the then-bishop of Rhode Island, and it is that diocese that has disciplinary authority over her.

During the next year, Redding “is not to exercise any of the responsibilities and privileges of an Episcopal priest or deacon,” Wolf wrote in her e-mail. Wolf could not be reached for immediate comment.

Redding is disappointed.

During the meeting, Redding said she took off her priest’s collar and accepted Wolf’s invitation to hold it for the year.

“I understand she’s holding it as an indication that we’re both in this together,” Redding said.

At the end of the year, the two will revisit the issue.

“I understand that one of my options would be to voluntarily leave the priesthood,” Redding said.

At this moment, though, she is not willing to do that. “The church is going to have to divorce me if it comes to that,” she said. “I’m not going to go willingly.”

Her local supervisor sees it all as an acceptable “timeout” and “compromise.” It’s a compromise all right, and one that her superior initially supported. Remember what he said when we first visited this story.

Redding’s bishop, the Rt. Rev. Vincent Warner, says he accepts Redding as an Episcopal priest and a Muslim, and that he finds the interfaith possibilities exciting.

If the Episcopalian church allows a practicing Muslim to remain as a priest after this year of reflection has expired, the church will have compromised its soul. How exciting!

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As a child, she must have watched Mr. Rogers. I’m sure he somehow contributed to her current confusion between what is absolute truth and what is relative truth.

jediwebdude on July 6, 2007 at 11:16 AM

If the Episcopalian church allows a practicing Muslim to remain as a priest after this year of reflection has expired, the church will have compromised its soul.

Methinks that happened long ago.

infidel4life on July 6, 2007 at 11:23 AM

Let’s see…

‘Convert or die’ & ‘Thou shalt not kill’….

Yep…seem pretty compatible…in the Twilight Zone

dandy on July 6, 2007 at 11:25 AM

Sweet heaven! As an Episcopalian I’m happy. I can’t believe the bishop showed some spine. When I first read about Reading and her conversion to Islam I wrote to the presiding Bishop on the ECUSA. I thought it was hopeless, that the church would never discipline someone over a little matter like joining another religion. Wow, the Episcopal Church surprised me. Bully for them. Three Two cheers for the Episcopal Church.

Thomas the Wraith on July 6, 2007 at 11:25 AM

A religion that’s willing to accept members of a conflicting faith as its priests in the interests of “diversity” or “inclusiveness” isn’t a religion. It’s a book club.

flipflop on July 6, 2007 at 11:25 AM

Multiculturalism applied to religion. Not surprising in our society.

Snidely Whiplash on July 6, 2007 at 11:26 AM

The Episcopalian church divorced itself from God a long time ago. This latest act only reconfirms it.

Guardian on July 6, 2007 at 11:36 AM

Thomas the Wraith on July 6, 2007 at 11:25 AM

My man, if you think the Episcopal “Church” has a prayer of leading anyone to salvation then it is time to layoff the sacramental wine.

Join the millions of people who have already left.

Bill C on July 6, 2007 at 11:37 AM

This kind of stuff is anti-thought, anti-reason, and anti-logic. Lady you’re just gonna have to choose. Remember if you leave Islam you die. Islam is the source of the death of reason whereas Christendom has spawned what we can civilization.

…and don’t tell me about Eastern civilization; there are more Christians in China then there are in America.

Mojave Mark on July 6, 2007 at 11:38 AM

Waiting for the law suit.

5, 4, 3 . . .

Labamigo on July 6, 2007 at 11:39 AM

i dont think chinas 20 million Christians can lay claim to the founding of eastern civilization.

zane on July 6, 2007 at 11:41 AM

This Episcopalian priest is a fine example of the one who lifted a boulder so that he could drop it on his head or the one who stepped on a shovel and have the handle smack his face. The UK is banning the use of the word muslim or islam when describing the latest islamic terrorism because they do not want to offend the sensibilities of their muslim community. The former was a proactive appeaser and the latter is a reactive appeaser. Both are one and the same. God bless the queen.

TrueKatipunero on July 6, 2007 at 11:41 AM

Well when this story first broke, I told my husband’s Grandmother about it since she is an Episcopalian. She just couldn’t believe it even though I directed her here (of course she always has plenty of negative to say about the Catholic church-my religion) and was shocked such a thing was being allowed to happen but chalked it up to the “gay bishop think running amuck”. Perhaps it’s just me but I just can’t wrap my head around being a Christian and a Muslim at the same time.

Catie96706 on July 6, 2007 at 11:42 AM

Good, finally some sense. Though they should just remove her, which will probably be the necessary step after her year long “timeout.”

Also, women shouldn’t be priests in the first place.

*ducks*

brak on July 6, 2007 at 11:46 AM

I don’t see what the problem is. Islam is The Religion of Tolerance, right?

So all she has to do is apply for a position as a Mullah. As I understand it, the Muslims know exactly what to do with women who want to practice a little bit of Islam and a little bit of Christianity.

logis on July 6, 2007 at 11:46 AM

The Episcopal church abandoned its’ principles long ago. I grew up as an Episcopalian but when the church left me in the 90′s I became part of a growing group of people referred to as Christians without a church. The divisions in the Episcopal church are deep and have created a much larger in rift in the parent organization known as the Anglican church.
Episcopalians ceased to be a religion a while back and instead became some sort of crusader for various politically correct social causes. I will hand it to the Catholics who stick to their guns and the message is clear. That is what they stand for and if you can’t handle it don’t become Catholic whereas the Episcopal adopted the policy of trying to be everything to everybody and wound up being nothing to nobody.
It is a shame.

LakeRuins on July 6, 2007 at 11:50 AM

Catie96706,

You can’t wrap your head around a person being a Christian and a Muslim at the same time because it’s inconceivable!! The two are mutually exclusive. Christianity recognizes Christ as God, whereas to Muslims, Christ was simply a good prohpet. And that’s just one of the many differences… We ABSOLUTELY do not worship the same God. Silly, sad woman!(the Espicopalian priest, that is :))

Nolamom67 on July 6, 2007 at 11:50 AM

Apparently you can’t serve two masters!

Wander on July 6, 2007 at 11:53 AM

Was’nt the Episcopalian(and Lutheran)Church started by Catholics who did’nt want to follow the rules?

DCJeff on July 6, 2007 at 11:55 AM

The liberal mind will see no problem with hyphenated spiritualists, in fact they’ll wholeheartedly embrace the idea I’m sure. I would expect to see many more variations as more and more clueless individuals self-identify as being a member of some religious concoction or another.

In a way it kind of reminds me of the Cream tune “Strange Brew” – a most deadly blend indeed.

Exit question: Now that we apparently have Muslim-Christian, what will be the most outrageous new hyphenated religion?

kjspeedial on July 6, 2007 at 11:57 AM

Thanks for the update on the issue Bryan.

I am glad that the bishop stood up and actually addressed this issue.

nailinmyeye on July 6, 2007 at 11:59 AM

So, nothing like internecene squabbling between Christian faiths, huh? I thought this was at least halfway about Islam.

James on July 6, 2007 at 12:02 PM

Was’nt the Episcopalian(and Lutheran)Church started by Catholics who did’nt want to follow the rules?

DCJeff on July 6, 2007 at 11:55 AM

Yes and no

The Episcopal Church (Church of England) was started by King Henry VIII because he wanted a divorce. The Lutheran Church was started because Martin Luther was fed up with the doctrinal errors and greed of the Catholic Church (specifically, “indulgences”, whereby one could “buy” a loved one out of Hell. For the appropriate price, of course.)

BigOrangeAxe on July 6, 2007 at 12:07 PM

It’s just that believing in Christ’s divinity is the whole point of being a Christian, hence the word “Christ” is right in there.

Muslims do not believe Christ was/is God.

You simply can’t get any clearer than that.

If she wants to pray five times a day and wear the scarf, that’s one thing, but in calling herself a Muslim, she must accept that Jesus was just a prophet, which goes entirely against Christianity.

Esthier on July 6, 2007 at 12:11 PM

If the Episcopalian church allows a practicing Muslim to remain as a priest after this year of reflection has expired, the church will have compromised its soul. How exciting!

There is NO GREATER SIN!

There can be no more of an opposite.
How exiting indeed.
Thx B.

shooter on July 6, 2007 at 12:12 PM

Ahhh, the Episcopal Church, so liberal in regards to their beliefs that Barbara Streisand and Christopher Hitchens cannot say with any certainty that they are in fact not members.

OrthodoxRobert on July 6, 2007 at 12:12 PM

…the church will have compromised its soul. How exciting!

When I saw that, I had to look to see whose post it was. I saw that the statement was irony on Bryan’s part as opposed to a certain anticipatory rush on AP’s.

Episcopalians ceased to be a religion…and…became some sort of crusader for various politically correct social causes…
LakeRuins on July 6, 2007 at 11:50 AM

I wouldn’t be surprised to see some Episcopalians try to bring the entire church under one Diocese of Gaia. (Listening, Bishop Spong?)

eeyore on July 6, 2007 at 12:16 PM

If the Episcopalian church allows a practicing Muslim to remain as a priest after this year of reflection has expired, the church will have compromised its soul. How exciting!

The Episcopal Church compromised its soul when they ordained a Muslim into their priesthood in the first place.

This story, however, has nothing to do with promoting Christianity. It is clearly about tearing down historical Christian constructs which uniquely identify Christianity in the first place. I looks like Christianity on the outside, but inside it is something quite different. I believe this is an example of our definition for the world ‘cult’.

Lawrence on July 6, 2007 at 12:16 PM

When I saw that, I had to look to see whose post it was.

I too had to take a peek to be sure.

shooter on July 6, 2007 at 12:19 PM

The Episcopal Church compromised its soul when they ordained a Muslim into their priesthood in the first place.

I’m fairly certain that she became a Muslim after becoming a priest. So you can’t really blame them for that one.

Esthier on July 6, 2007 at 12:19 PM

The Episcopal Church compromised its soul when they ordained a Muslim into their priesthood in the first place.

They didn’t ordain a Muslim. She’s been a priest for 23 years, a Muslim for 15 months. What they have done is, until now, allow a Muslim to function as a priest on the notion that she can be both a Muslim and a Christian at the same time.

Bryan on July 6, 2007 at 12:22 PM

My guess is that since she’s been allowed to be a “Reverend” in the Episcopalian Church for 20 years with the staunch liberalism that plagues it…giving her another year to “reflect” on her theology seems rather pointless in my eyes.

df4jc on July 6, 2007 at 12:23 PM

Clearly, the only way to top this is for somebody to belong to three religions. Anyone for BuddhEpiscoMuslim? MormoWiccaBaptist? The possibilities are endless.

Just another example of how mushy-headed liberal “thinking” ruins everything it comes in contact with.

ReubenJCogburn on July 6, 2007 at 12:26 PM

Apostasy as far as biblical Christianity is concerned, makes perfect sense to Godless liberal minded “religionists” ignorantly furthering the one world religion that is on the way…

NRA4Freedom on July 6, 2007 at 12:27 PM

I’m fairly certain that she became a Muslim after becoming a priest. So you can’t really blame them for that one.

Esthier on July 6, 2007 at 12:19 PM

Maybe so. The fact they allow her to remain a bishop and/or priest is its own condemnation.

Their entrance standard for ordaining their priests is suspect from the begining because I think we can argue she probably was never a true Christian to begin with. It is obvious now that she should never have been ordained in the first place.

This is not a condemnation against individual Episcopals. I’m talking about the general Episcopal bureaucracy which has obviously strayed from the path intended by its greater membership. It is this that requires fixing and it will be a long road for them.

What can I do to help them? First is by calling a thing for what it is, in good light or bad, and refusing to endorse efforts intended to turn Christian organizations into cults.

PS: This is not a sigularly Episcoal problem. It’s just that Episcopals are currently being set as an example.

Lawrence on July 6, 2007 at 12:30 PM

They didn’t ordain a Muslim. She’s been a priest for 23 years, a Muslim for 15 months. What they have done is, until now, allow a Muslim to function as a priest on the notion that she can be both a Muslim and a Christian at the same time.

Bryan on July 6, 2007 at 12:22 PM

They did appoint a practicing homosexual as their Bishop, and then a woman.

If anyone is still in that denomination, get out.

PRCalDude on July 6, 2007 at 12:30 PM

They didn’t ordain a Muslim. She’s been a priest for 23 years, a Muslim for 15 months. What they have done is, until now, allow a Muslim to function as a priest on the notion that she can be both a Muslim and a Christian at the same time.

Bryan on July 6, 2007 at 12:22 PM

True. I guess my point is in my view she was never really a Christian in the first place. What they have done, really, is allow a non-Christian to function as a priest for 23 years. And this is just as wrong as allowing her to remain a priest now.

Lawrence on July 6, 2007 at 12:32 PM

ReubenJCogburn on July 6, 2007 at 12:26 PM

Three is child’s play, my friend. Combine ‘em all into one big pile of mushy doo-doo and what do you get?

Unitarian Universalists. Be everything to anybody at any time!

kjspeedial on July 6, 2007 at 12:33 PM

Three is child’s play, my friend. Combine ‘em all into one big pile of mushy doo-doo and what do you get?

Unitarian Universalists. Be everything to anybody at any time!

kjspeedial on July 6, 2007 at 12:33 PM

Heh. I forgot about them.

ReubenJCogburn on July 6, 2007 at 12:35 PM

One, shouldn’t Warner be disciplined, too?

Two, does Redding discipline include a demotion in salary and privileges? If not, it’s then only a paid sabbatical.

Blake on July 6, 2007 at 12:38 PM

Most denominations are suffering from creeping-PC and the desire to appeal to everyone no matter what these days. Just trying to find a traditional church service these days can be challenging at times.

brak on July 6, 2007 at 12:39 PM

Most denominations are suffering from creeping-PC and the desire to appeal to everyone no matter what these days. Just trying to find a traditional church service these days can be challenging at times.

brak on July 6, 2007 at 12:39 PM

Check out http://www.opc.org, http://www.pcanet.org, or http://www.urcna.org. The Missouri synod of the Lutheran church is still good also.

PRCalDude on July 6, 2007 at 12:48 PM

Maybe she can get a position in the Bush Administration during her year off? She’ll be dressed for it.

andycanuck on July 6, 2007 at 12:50 PM

Here is some more background to her story and St. Marks, the church where she served. A few choice quotes:

In a tremor atop Capitol Hill, but felt throughout Seattle’s faith community, two women priests and an arts administrator have been severed from the staff at St. Mark’s Cathedral.

The Lenten shake-up in what St. Mark’s Dean Robert Taylor described as a “magnificent team” resulted from a budget shortfall at the Episcopal cathedral. The Revs. Janet Campbell and Ann Holmes Redding left the staff Sunday, just two weeks before Easter.

Redding was director of faith formation and in charge of preparing those who will be baptized, confirmed and received into the church at the Easter Vigil service on Holy Saturday.

In carefully worded e-mails, Campbell and Redding declined to discuss their departure from the cathedral staff. “I’m sure you’ll understand when I say that I am not at liberty to answer any questions about the staff layoffs,” Campbell wrote.

“Out of concern for the St. Mark’s community, I must decline to make any comment,” Redding wrote.

I don’t know as if this move was a “tremor.” Perhaps it was more than budget cuts that made it an easy decision to lay her off. They may have been having trouble with her religious “outlook” and didn’t want to make it a public issue.

A building once foreclosed, and used for storage by the military during World War II, St. Mark’s has emerged as one of the 10 most-attended Episcopal churches in America. About 1,500 people find their way to the “Holy Box” each Sunday.

Several of the country’s big Episcopal congregations are conservative: Christ Church in Plano, Texas, and Truro Church in Fairfax, Va., have severed their ties to the American church after the installation of a non-celibate gay, the Rt. Rev. Eugene Robinson, as Episcopal bishop of New Hampshire.

St. Mark’s is a citadel of religious liberalism. A protégé of South Africa’s Archbishop Desmond Tutu, Taylor is himself gay. He has been the chairman of a King County task force on elimination of homelessness.

The cathedral hosts same-sex commitment ceremonies and is home to a weekly Eucharist co-sponsored with Integrity, the gay-lesbian ministry of the Episcopal Church. St. Mark’s is currently hosting (just below the dean’s window) the Tent City homeless encampment.

Given its role in the community, the cathedral rests on surprisingly slender financial foundations.

Its principal support comes from pledges by 621 families and individuals. The cathedral has 135 new so-called “pledging units” this year, but at least 140 families or households who pledged last year have not renewed their financial support.

“We were at 653 pledging households last year. We have not heard from about 100 households who pledged last year or the year before, this apart from people who have moved away or died,” said Taylor.

So we have a church with very high attendance numbers, yet donations and financial support is dropping. Sounds like they try to minister to the “least” in society, but have wandered away from Scripture and are losing the people who donate most of the funding.

If you are ever in Seattle and driving north on I-5, just past downtown, St Marks is the on the hill to the east with the large circular rose window facing Lake Union.

Mallard T. Drake on July 6, 2007 at 12:52 PM

So we have a church with very high attendance numbers, yet donations and financial support is dropping.

Sounds like fast food religion in action. If a church offers instant forgiveness and makes absolutely no demands on its practitioners… Well, then it isn’t a church; it’s liberalism.

So it looks like they’ll have to figure out how to get people from other denominations to “donate” into their feel good factory.

logis on July 6, 2007 at 1:00 PM

Sounds like fast food religion in action. If a church offers instant forgiveness and makes absolutely no demands on its practitioners… Well, then it isn’t a church; it’s liberalism.

Uh, forgiveness is found through Christ, who should be preached at the Episcopal church. What the Episcopal church is now, for the most part, is some polyglot assortment of pagans. There may be actual Christians still attending some of the better churches, but last I heard those churches were leaving the denomination.

PRCalDude on July 6, 2007 at 1:04 PM

“Two, does Redding discipline include a demotion in salary and privileges? If not, it’s then only a paid sabbatical.”
Blake on July 6, 2007 at 12:38 PM

I don’t see it that way. It’s possible that the bishop is just giving her a sabbatical to “rethink” her faith. In a similar vein, I know a pastor who, after admitting he had an addiction, was given a year off to “fix himself” so he could return stronger.
I doubt that’s the case, but you never know.

balishak on July 6, 2007 at 1:05 PM

How does she reconcile Christ’s love for others vs. murdering your neighbor?

MrFreeman07 on July 6, 2007 at 1:09 PM

Was’nt the Episcopalian(and Lutheran)Church started by Catholics who did’nt want to follow the rules?

DCJeff on July 6, 2007 at 11:55 AM

I think that the Lutheran Church was started by M. Luther who thought the RC Church was corrupt and had strayed from the truth. Knox and Calvin thought the same. I can’t speak for the Episcopalians So what rules are you talking about?

archon2001 on July 6, 2007 at 1:10 PM

Question: Will a Christian Episcopalian Priest who also practices Islam submit, or become a Dihmmi, to their Muslim side, or will their Muslim side become an apostate and allow the Christian side to practice their faith without engaging in Jihad, slaughtering their Christian side, and without instituting the Jizya (tax) by the Muslim side upon the Christian side?

Will the Muslim side wage Jihad on the Christian side, killing it, and will the Christian side deny Jesus as their personal Lord and Savior, the Messiah, the Lord, the Word Incarnate, or will the Christian side relinquish that belief for the Muslim belief that Jesus the Christ is merely a Prophet and not a Divine being?

How will this dichotomy be resolved?

William

William2006 on July 6, 2007 at 1:29 PM

“It’s over now
Drink your big black cow
and get outta here.”

dingoatemebaby on July 6, 2007 at 1:48 PM

And yet Evangelical Christians have no problem with those who announce that they are both Jewish and Christian, even though those two religions are also theologically incompatible.

aunursa on July 6, 2007 at 1:50 PM

aunursa on July 6, 2007 at 1:50 PM

“Jewish” not only describes a religious system, it also describes a nationality of a people. I know several Jews who are not religious at all, but they are still Jewish by ancestry.

kjspeedial on July 6, 2007 at 2:15 PM

well she can’t go back to being a full time Christian. We all know what happens to Muslim apostates. Yup, she got herself caught between a rock and a hard place on this one. Should have thought about the whole ‘death to apostates’ thing before she converted.

Keli on July 6, 2007 at 2:17 PM

And yet Evangelical Christians have no problem with those who announce that they are both Jewish and Christian, even though those two religions are also theologically incompatible.

aunursa on July 6, 2007 at 1:50 PM

This can be a confusing issue at times.

It is possible to be culturally Jewish and religiously Christian. It is also possible to be Orthodox Jewish (and synoymously Christian) as long as one accepts Jesus Christ as the Jewish Messiah/Christ.

The division between Jews and Christians is primarily a disagreement over Jesus as a Prophet or Jesus as the True Messiah. But in the end both Jews and Christians seek after the same Old Testament Yhwh and Prophetic Messiah.

Muslims on the other hand seek to Allah. They have no Messianic message and have no Christ figure. The problem is when one claims to be Muslim one must deny the Diety of Christ Jesus. And if one is a Christian one denies the teachings of Islam which identifies Jesus as a mere human prophet.

Islam really is a completely different religion from Judaism and Christianity. Trying to claim otherwise is simple ignorance and/or dangerous denial.

Lawrence on July 6, 2007 at 2:17 PM

Just trying to find a traditional church service these days can be challenging at times.

The Left has encroached on almost all western forms of Christianity and renedered them meaningless. If you’re a seeking Christian, try the Orthodox Church–especially the Antiochians. It’s like Greek Orthodoxy for Americans. Best kept secret in the United States. Listen to Ancient Faith radio to get a taste.

No social club. No insurance policy. Just pure Christianity.

ahem on July 6, 2007 at 2:20 PM

Due to medical conditions, it is not possible for me always to attend church. About two+ years I discovered the Coral Ridge Presbyterian ministry headed by Dr. James Kennedy and truly, truly enjoy worshiping with this ministry.

No political correctness, just the Word of God.

And he fights hard against the ACLU and others who want to destroy America. I have felt truly blessed by his sermons and prayers.

One of the few well known ministers who have not bowed to the god of PC.

Ignorant Mensan on July 6, 2007 at 2:39 PM

I can’t wait to see the Rev. Ann Holmes Redding ask for forgiveness for blowing herself up.

Kini on July 6, 2007 at 5:27 PM

Was’nt the Episcopalian(and Lutheran)Church started by Catholics who did’nt want to follow the rules?

DCJeff on July 6, 2007 at 11:55 AM

No, DC, the Lutheran Church was started by a man who wanted to follow the rules, Gods rules. That is what the reformation was about, allowing God’s words to flow directly into the hearts of man. In religion, the rules are made by God, followed by man, not the other way around.

right2bright on July 6, 2007 at 5:31 PM

And yet Evangelical Christians have no problem with those who announce that they are both Jewish and Christian, even though those two religions are also theologically incompatible.

aunursa on July 6, 2007 at 1:50 PM

A really good book on this subject is Salvation is from the Jews. In the end, Jews who convert to Christianity believe that it is more of a fulfillment of the Jewish covenant than a conversion to a new religion. They themselves do not even consider it a “conversion.”

As for the original story, this “priest” is no worse than retired “Bishop” John Spong. He was the Episcopal bishop of Newark, NJ for 20+ years. He was also a committed atheist.

Some will quibble that he never came out and claimed he was an atheist. This may be true, but he spent his whole life teaching how God was not a theistic being and that Jesus was our model (not Savior) because he was so kind and good.

Hopefully this is a sign that the shenanigans in the Episcopal church are being addressed. Now they still have to deal with their ongoing schism.

cmay on July 6, 2007 at 5:35 PM

That is what the reformation was about, allowing God’s words to flow directly into the hearts of man.

right2bright on July 6, 2007 at 5:31 PM

If that’s true, it’s difficult to figure out why it took nearly 4 centuries for a Bible to be codified (and when it was it was on the authority of the Church). It’s also, difficult to argue that the way Hillary Clinton and Barak Obama translate the Bible is incorrect even though it is incompatible with traditional understanding.

God did write the law directly on our hearts, but He also gave us teachers in the disciples to instruct us. In Acts 8, the Ethiopian eunuch indicates that he could not know the scriptures because he’s had nobody to teach him.

Luther neither didn’t want to follow the rules nor establish direct interlocution. He was rightly fed up with corruption in the Church. People can argue whether he was right to do what he did to remedy this problem, but it was corruption, not theology, that led him to found a new religion.

cmay on July 6, 2007 at 5:59 PM

Check out how liberal Piskies tried to kill this story, and what a scrappy group of conservative Piskies did to keep it alive.”>keep it alive.

greggriffith on July 6, 2007 at 6:47 PM

Sorry for the broken link. Second try.

greggriffith on July 6, 2007 at 6:50 PM

Muslims on the other hand seek to Allah. They have no Messianic message and have no Christ figure.

Lawrence on July 6, 2007 at 2:17 PM

The Shia have fixed that.

You may have heard somebody in fairly high position of power talk about this very thing.

angryoldfatman on July 6, 2007 at 7:07 PM

They did appoint a practicing homosexual as their Bishop, and then a woman.

If anyone is still in that denomination, get out.

PRCalDude on July 6, 2007 at 12:30 PM

Not only was he a practicing homosexual, he was also an adulterer and an alcoholic!

When he was made Bishop was the exact time that their church became apostate.

Religious_Zealot on July 6, 2007 at 7:43 PM

As an Episcopalian and a used to be Rhode Islander for many years—–I applaud Bishop Wolf for having much more common sense than the Bishop of the Olympia Diocese in Washington, who said something to the effect that it had interesting possibilities. Yikes!!!

jeanie on July 6, 2007 at 7:49 PM

“I’m not going to go willingly.”

That could be taken a couple of ways. Could make for an interesting follow up

PowWow on July 6, 2007 at 7:55 PM

The Shia have fixed that.

angryoldfatman on July 6, 2007 at 7:07 PM

Good point.

However, the Imam Mahdi is not a deified Christ equivalent.

Messianic Christ is God incarnate, while Imam Mahdi is merely another human prophet.

Lawrence on July 6, 2007 at 7:55 PM

Luther neither didn’t want to follow the rules nor establish direct interlocution. He was rightly fed up with corruption in the Church. People can argue whether he was right to do what he did to remedy this problem, but it was corruption, not theology, that led him to found a new religion.

cmay on July 6, 2007 at 5:59 PM

What about the five solas?

He objected on principle to Rome’s way of salvation (sola fide, sola gratia, solus christus), which isn’t supported Biblically, and on Papal authority(sola scriptura).

PRCalDude on July 6, 2007 at 8:01 PM

We have so much religious freedom here in America that people can join up with any religion they want and keep the parts they like and throw away the parts they don’t like. We can even mix and match if we want! We have so much religious freedom in this country that joining a church is easier than getting a Blockbuster membership card. I’ve known Christians who regularly visit their town psychic and claim, “I trust my psychic because she’s a Christian”.

My point?

Only in America where we have such freedom can someone join a religion and have almost nothing to do with it at the same time.

Joshua P. Allem on July 6, 2007 at 8:42 PM

Good point.

However, the Imam Mahdi is not a deified Christ equivalent.

Lawrence on July 6, 2007 at 7:55 PM

Good point, and I agree.

Still, as far as I can tell, the distinction is nonexistant in practice. The Muslims revere Mohammed as if he were a deity; one only needs to draw a cartoon of him to find that out. Also, from Ahmadinejad’s tone, I can’t see it being any different for the Mahdi.

angryoldfatman on July 6, 2007 at 9:23 PM

And yet Evangelical Christians have no problem with those who announce that they are both Jewish and Christian, even though those two religions are also theologically incompatible.

aunursa on July 6, 2007 at 1:50 PM

Who makes such a claim?

William

William2006 on July 6, 2007 at 9:30 PM

He objected on principle to Rome’s way of salvation (sola fide, sola gratia, solus christus), which isn’t supported Biblically, and on Papal authority(sola scriptura).

PRCalDude on July 6, 2007 at 8:01 PM

I’m not sure if you’re saying that the Catholic Church believed in sola fide, etc. or that Luther did. I assume that you’re attributing the 5 solas to Protestant theology, which is the correct way to look at it. I just found it awkwardly worded and wanted to be clear what we were talking about.

Having clarified that, the 5 solas are essentially what distinguished Protestantism from Catholicism. These arose out of necessity rather than biblically or theologically. Luther famously added the word “alone” to Romans 3:28 to invent sola fide. This was to debunk specific Catholic teachings on the efficacy of works and indulgences. Sola gratia was a reaction to the abuse of selling indulgences. Solus Christus and soli Deo gloria removed the Church as an intercessor, again to protest the selling of indulgences. Sola scriptura was invented to eliminate magisterial and papal authority.

In all 5 cases, the solas were designed to minimize the corruption that existed in the Church.

cmay on July 6, 2007 at 9:53 PM

What is amazing is that, coming ‘Pisky Bish this actually looks like spine by comparison to the usual state of affairs when in fact it only rises to the level of cartilage.

TBinSTL on July 7, 2007 at 2:27 AM

As a Christian, isn’t she an infidel?

As a Muslim, isn’t her duty to kill infidels?

Therefore, by logical extension, shouldn’t she kill herself?

Ugh…I need an aspirin.

crushliberalism on July 7, 2007 at 3:41 PM