Esthier-

Agnostic means that you are looking, not believing or certain of things that are beyond our scope.

But it knows what is worthwhile here on Earth.

Not fighting over any theory, but refining all.

profitsbeard on July 5, 2007 at 5:09 PM

profitsbeard, I think you actually need to study agnosticism, because you didn’t just quote the agnosticism philosophy, but actually it is a form of Modernism (which has been rejected by modernists and they moved to post-modernists).

Agnostic literally means without knowledge. The word comes from Koine “a” meaning without and “gnosis” which means knowledge.

The position that is held by Agnostics is: One can not know, due to the subjective nature of truth. It literally is saying, “I know that I do not know.” There is nothing to refine, because there is no ability to refine truth since it is unknowable.

It is on the most basic level an irrational concept and it is why it has fallen out of view among true philosophers. Even Post-modernists have had to reject agnosticism and declare that truth is unknowable, but experience is. This is why post-modernists work toward finding that final experience.

Conquest for subjugation of the infidel, directives to obey Islamic law which is incompatable with democracy, and unequal treatment are just a few of the incompatabilities that Islam has with western values.

It is unfortunate that these people have bought into a cult ideology that is not only dangerous but is enaged in deliberate effort to dominate all the “unbelievers”.

When, when, when will the United States recognize this enemy for what it is?

Covered Meat means FULLY Covered.

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!

An open invitation to lust.

I can’t blame anyone for believing anything they choose, particularly if they were born into their belief system. However, I haven’t a molecule of tolerance for converts. Know-it-all supremacist attitude, condescending bile for anyone else who hasn’t “seen the light.”

Think born-again non-smokers are a blight on society? Try stomaching five minutes with a Muslim convert.

Where in blazes did that come from, Jayhaw? “Cult” versus “Religion”? Totally irrelevant in the context of your argument with Esthier.

Much of what Jayhaw has said has been irrelevant, but that’s what happens when an idea or thing sparks as much disdain inside a person as religion does for Jayhaw.

Agreed, but the only two arguments that Christian Theists on this site have can be boiled down to two points:

1) But the bible says so!
2) Hitler was an Atheist

That’s completely false, and your second point completely ignores everything I wrote above, as though you simply couldn’t come up with a decent response.

I actually agree that his religion was Nationalism.

I was countering esthiers attempt to end the argument in an edwardsian way with a false call to civility tather than an ability to win the debate.

No, not at all. I did not get into a debate with you, I merely pointed out that your knee-jerk reaction to Christianity is to engage in nothing but insults, even when there is no reason to even talk about Christians.

We were not in any debate whatsoever. The entire conversation we’ve had is me explaining that it’s pathetic to always insult religion and you responding by insulting religion.

As I’ve said repeatedly, I don’t care if you respect me, I just think your responses are something to be pitied. In fact, that’s almost word for word what I said.

As an American, I will fight for the death for your right to worship the delusion of your choice, but I will retain the right to think less of you for doing so. And I will absolutely retain the right to express my opinion.

Again, something I never argued against. To paraphrase Blair, your since of injustice is off base.

Elizibeth Edwards will not shut up Ann Coulter with false calls for civility and poster “esthier” will not shut out my opinion by using the same pathetic tactic.

You dare compare yourself to Ann Coulter (a woman who shares the “delusion” you so disdain) because I made fun of your knee-jerk reaction? You’ve lost a little bit of reality with that one.

1. I have not asked you to stop. I’ve only said your insults are childish, irrelevant and useless.
2. We were not engaged in any debate and when I refuted what you cherry picked from wikipedia, you’re the one that ignored the facts.
3. When Ann Coulter insults a person or idea, it’s to make a legitimate point. You did no such thing and with your continued whining about free speech and thought, which no one is arguing against might I add, you’re only embarrassing yourself.

I have no problem with atheists. I even have no problem with atheists who think people who believe in God are delusional. I’d rather die than live in a world where people like that cannot exist.

In fact, I married a man who acted as such. He would taunt me and other Christians, tying many of us in logical knots. He had a field day with it and could run circles around most of the Christians who didn’t know their own theology as well as they should have.

Except, he was always intelligent enough to do it without being immature.

The name-calling and insipid insults are, as I’ve stated repeatedly, are childish and pitiful. Those who cannot speak on matters, even ones they think are stupid and/or full of delusions, without relying completely on the above tactics, are not people who can debate.

And went to a religion that has a Master Slave paradigm and uses fear to subjugate its women. See Islam’s Global War against Christianity @ Americanthinkerdotcom

The hijab is not freedom, love and respect is.

Christ rose from the dead did Mohammed?

They are free to convert and in America we are free to criticize. Not all things are equal.

What you also seem not to realize is that your atheism is as much a religion as Christianity, Islam, or Hinduism. And its adherents can be just as dogmatic.

Another thing: Since when is the Universe required to accept your idea of what is rational or not? Yes, the notion that the Creator of the Universe manifested Himself as a human specifically so he could get Himself buchered and then rise from the dead does seem a bit loopy at first look (and probably even second look). But if there IS a Creator, who in Hades are we to tell Him how he is supposed to act?

Frankly, I find the notion that God created Man no crazier than the idea that there is no Creator at all. And when I find myself insisting that the Universe and God must adhere to my own vision of rationality, I go read up on quantum physics.

I am not saying that we should discard rationality, but that we should accept that, One, people are not inherently rational, and Two, that even when people are being rational they can still come to radically different conclusions.

A lot of harm has been done in the name of Christianity, to be sure, but Christianity has also motivated most of the good that has occured in the West in the last two millenia.
It certainly has done more good in that timeframe than any other religion.

Isn’t pointless to debate on which group (atheist or religious people) has the bigger body count. Almost every religion or non-religious group and race or nationality has some skeletons in their history.

terryannonline on July 5, 2007 at 5:40 PM

Agreed, but the only two arguments that Christian Theists on this site have can be boiled down to two points:

1) But the bible says so!
2) Hitler was an Atheist

I actually agree that his religion was Nationalism.

I was countering esthiers attempt to end the argument in an edwardsian way with a false call to civility tather than an ability to win the debate.

As an American, I will fight for the death for your right to worship the delusion of your choice, but I will retain the right to think less of you for doing so. And I will absolutely retain the right to express my opinion.

Elizibeth Edwards will not shut up Ann Coulter with false calls for civility and poster “esthier” will not shut out my opinion by using the same pathetic tactic.

Here is a question for the theists out there:

What is the difference between a religion and a cult?

When does a cult become a religion?

Is scientology a religion or a cult?

How about mormonism?

Who makes these determinations?

In the end, is there really any difference between a religion and a cult?

Anywho, I better get back to work. :)

The women remind me of those felon groupies who fall in love with mass murderers and marry them on death row. As for the guy, who hasn’t met someone like him before—never accepted by the cool kids, picked on in school—sad, but true.

On a brighter note, there’s always the real possibility that a fair percentage of these “converts” are undercover agents infiltrating the enemy base of operations.

Though female circumcision is practiced in some predominantly Muslim countries (in addition to non-Muslim societies), the practice is not mandated nor specified by Islam.

BillINDC on July 5, 2007 at 4:13 PM

Yeah, it’s just a bonus.

And that’s honestly my point, not that atheists are worse, just that they aren’t necessarily better.

Hitler was an Aryan pagan Teutonic Old Gods cultist when it served his purposes. And became anything else that worked to manipulate the gullible.

“If at this moment we were to eliminate the religions by force, the people would unanimously beseech us for a new form of worship.”

Murderer though he was, he was also intelligent enough to know what he needed to be and do in order to keep his power.

He believed in Adolf.

Nothing else.

profitsbeard on July 5, 2007 at 5:19 PM

Exactly.

I especially wouldn’t want our Movement to acquire a religious character and institute a form of worship. It would be appalling for me, and I would wish I’d never lived, if I were to end up in the skin of a Buddha!