Showdown: Seven dead as Pakistani Rangers clash with jihadist nuts at Red Mosque
posted at 11:18 am on July 3, 2007 by Allahpundit
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Fortuitous timing with this post yesterday, eh? Roggio’s got a full round-up of this morning’s events; sounds like another rout at the hands of barbarians for our man in Islamabad.
Trouble began when student followers of the mosque, including young men with guns and dozens of women wearing black burqas, rushed toward a nearby police checkpoint early Tuesday afternoon.
Police and paramilitary Rangers fired tear gas and, as the students retreated, an Associated Press photographer saw at least four students, some of them masked, fire shots toward security forces about 200 yards away…
The students later set fire to the Ministry of Environment after tearing down a section of the wall around the three-story building near the mosque and pelting it with rocks.
Also torched was the adjacent building belonging to the Capital Development Authority, which oversees Islamabad’s administration.
Some of the students carried gas masks and several were seen with gasoline-filled bottles and Molotov cocktails. About a dozen were armed with guns, including AK-47 assault rifles.
Dozens of stone-throwing students shattered windows of the ministry building, chanting, ”Taliban, long live Taliban.” They later set the building afire.
The Beeb says seven are dead, three of them among the security forces — but a “ceasefire has been negotiated,” you’ll be happy to learn. There’s some question as to who struck first, with the author of yesterday’s bombshell piece in the Asia Times weighing in today to say that Pakistani troops had at last been “let loose” on the mosque as an opening salvo to herald the supposed new offensive in the tribal areas. Needless to say, that’s extremely unlikely given the fact that they’ve already ceased firing. A moment of martial glory:
As soon as the firing started, Aziz announced on the mosque’s loudspeakers that the students should put on suicide jackets and be ready to carry out attacks on any security people entering the mosque.
This spooked the security personnel and they retreated, but were instructed to maintain the siege.
Read the very end of Roggio’s post to see just how far these turds have pushed the envelope lately with no response from Musharraf. This is all part of a larger picture which WaPo fleshes out a bit today — tellingly, in an article about the Glasgow attacks:
The incidents in England and Scotland, counterterrorism officials said, coincide with recent U.S. intelligence indicating stepped-up movement of money and people from al-Qaeda camps in the ungoverned tribal areas of Pakistan, near the Afghan border. Several senior U.S. military officials were sharply critical yesterday of what they saw as the Pakistani government’s unwillingness to move forcefully against the camps and the U.S. administration’s failure to press Pakistan harder to curtail what one called a terrorist “growth industry.”
Al-Qaeda’s “presence in the tribal areas has not been this secure since before 9/11,” one senior U.S. military intelligence official wrote in an e-mail.
Exit question: Is it time to withdraw support for Musharraf and let the chips fall where they may?
Update: Your photo of the day.
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Students, youths, savages.
BadgerHawk on July 3, 2007 at 11:24 AM
Exit Q: No, it’s time to light a fire under his butt and tell him to start kickin’ some jihadi ass.
Tony737 on July 3, 2007 at 11:26 AM
It sure seems like that’s fast becoming our only option…
Hello, India?
max1 on July 3, 2007 at 11:27 AM
If Pakistan didn’t have nuclear weapons and missiles I’d say its long past time to show Musharref the door. Since the situation is otherwise, I’m not sure its a good idea to risk Al-Queda/Taliban getting their hands on the bomb, much less everything else the Pakistan Army has
Leonidas Hoplite on July 3, 2007 at 11:27 AM
School of hard rocks….
soulsirkus on July 3, 2007 at 11:27 AM
Yes. Come September, if Congress forces a withdrawal from Iraq, then we pull the chute entirely on Musharref and tell him he’s on his own.
It is so very depressing to realize that there are damn few good people left in the world in positions of power that are willing to fight this war. I don’t want to have to wait until the barbarians knock on my door. Unfortunately, I find myself preparing for just that eventuality however.
Pilgrim on July 3, 2007 at 11:29 AM
Not without securing the Pakistani Nuclear Weapons first.
Thats actualy his only hold on us… he is NOT our freind, but we can’t allow those weps to be in Jihadist Whacko control.
Romeo13 on July 3, 2007 at 11:30 AM
Sweet heaven no. Some of those chips are atomic weapons. We certainly won’t like where they fall.
Plus, if those chips fall India is very unlikely to just sit idly by and watch from the sidelines. Some of those chips could explode in their cities.
Good lord, the news gets worse and worse. The world is a very brittle place. Too many overlapping and convoluted interconnections. The clock is ticking.
Here’s the real exit question: Will Musharraf play the role of Archduke Franz Ferdinand in our little drama?
Thomas the Wraith on July 3, 2007 at 11:33 AM
I’m deeply concerned that Allah’s use of the term “jihadist nuts” might prejudice our opinion of these youths before I fully understand and appreciate their world view and the socioeconomic forces which have shaped it.
/university prof
saint kansas on July 3, 2007 at 11:41 AM
Unfortunately that would be going from bad to much, much worse. The Islamicists would win, and there’d be no effort at all to constrain the jihadis who’d be in control of nuclear weapons.
The Jihadis represent greatest threat to Musharraf’s rule- we need to play on that. It’s a bad situation- he cracks down hard and he faces a revolt with Jihadis coming out on top. He doesn’t crack down hard enough and the terrorists get free reign in the Afghanistan border area.
The only solution I can think of is for Musharraf (or someone else we can
bribeinfluence to become an authoritarian dictator-for-life.Hollowpoint on July 3, 2007 at 11:42 AM
Withdrawing lip service support for ALL leader’s in charge who do not clamp down on the Islamic radical mindset… YES
Enter support for ALL moderate Muslim voices who truly do not support violence…YES
Where are the moderate Muslim voices you ask? Well for starters, Hassan Butt. He should be given a microphone, a network news channel regular feature, a major newspaper column, a radio program, etc.
Oh, and the PBS feature film on moderate Muslim voices? Where is that? If “we the people” can “nuke” the Amnesty Bill than we can persuade PBS to make their film available.
There is tremendous opportunity here in this “we the people’s” format to change the current world dynamics.
The mainstream media really has no power anymore. The power is with “we the people’s” format.
Mcguyver on July 3, 2007 at 11:42 AM
At least 11 killed.
Thomas the Wraith on July 3, 2007 at 11:52 AM
If Musharraf falls, we will have to go to war with Pakistan.
No choice … If we can’t secure the nukes, the country has to be incinerated.
Kristopher on July 3, 2007 at 11:53 AM
You’d rather deal with the devil you don’t know? I think Musharraf is probably the best you are gonna get there.
And remember the other day, isn’t Pakistan realizing that the deal with the tribal areas was a mistake and may let troops into the area to weed out Taliban? Better late than never.
lorien1973 on July 3, 2007 at 11:53 AM
What’s Janet Reno doing these days? Is she available for consulting work?
Seriously - fortuitous timing indeed, AllahPundit. Another eagle feather for the Chief!
RushBaby on July 3, 2007 at 11:59 AM
They are barbarians, they will not be knocking.
the witch on July 3, 2007 at 12:02 PM
Exit Answer: No. As bad as it is now, it can be much worse. Let’s bear in mind that Pakistan has nuclear weapons. Should we withdraw support from Musharraf, the Taliban will gain control of the country, and those weapons. We’ll be screwed. We have to just hold his feet to the fire.
amerpundit on July 3, 2007 at 12:10 PM
India won’t get involved. It may want territory, but not at the cost of having Jihadists constantly setting off car bombs in its cities. India’s got enough of its own problems, as is.
amerpundit on July 3, 2007 at 12:13 PM
Call me callous, but I’m thinking wait 5 minutes, toss in a granade and hope for a chain reaction. It works in the video games anyway.
taznar on July 3, 2007 at 12:21 PM
And let the Islamist freakazoids get their hands on the nukes? Thanks, but no.
flipflop on July 3, 2007 at 12:22 PM
Funny that the M112 Demo Charge doesn’t have a NSN number on it.
What a M112 Demolition Charge should look like.
BohicaTwentyTwo on July 3, 2007 at 12:25 PM
Yup. Or we could offer to drop a MOAB on The Devil’s House of Worship and send the “students” off to see Allah in hell.
Jaibones on July 3, 2007 at 12:26 PM
I’m a tool. I was using your LINK button because I was too lazy.
BohicaTwentyTwo on July 3, 2007 at 12:26 PM
Ahhhhh…the religion of peace is at it again. That’s what you get when young people are taught the way tinfoil hatted leftist loons would wish. I say get the hell out of the Middle East, Europe and Asia. Keep our soldiers home as well as our money. Use our military to close off all borders, fingerprint and DNA all illegal aliens and anyone who wishes to visit or stay in this country.
Sounds awful, doesn’t it? But I am Fatigued!! Exhausted!! Tired of trying to get the deaf, dumb and blind the hear, see and understand.
sharinlite on July 3, 2007 at 12:41 PM
First I would give Mush an ultimatum and if he doesn’t go along with the plan we will pull all suport for him and conduct the operation ourselves! Tell Mush to first secure his nukes and then amass his troops around the tribal areas as an outer perimeter, then we start amassing an inner perimter to further surround the tribal areas, then along with the troops in Afghanistan start a squeeze play to concentrate them even further into a tightly cordoned area.
Once they are concentrated in a tight cordoned area get as many aircraft up (including predator drones, spector gun ships, etc) then hit the area with everything you have for days (carpet bombing as well as pin-point targeting). Hit anything that tries to escape the cordoned area and once they’re softened up sufficiently send in attack helos, armor, and troops in mass to finish them off!!
Who knows, we may even get OBL and his butt-buddy Zawahiri finally!
Liberty or Death on July 3, 2007 at 12:57 PM
What’s really telling about this episode?
Nobody–here or in the MSM–finds it remarkable that a mosque, a supposed house of worship, was full of people who were armed to the teeth.
flipflop on July 3, 2007 at 12:58 PM
How true, but you forgot to add Alan Colmes along with the university profs!
Liberty or Death on July 3, 2007 at 1:08 PM
I guess you won’t mind paying $15 a gallon for gas or over $1000 a month to heat your house?
Capitalist Infidel on July 3, 2007 at 1:17 PM
Yep. If it had been a church, we’d hear no end of just that point. Of course, it would never be a Christian church in the first place.
IrishEyes on July 3, 2007 at 1:25 PM
amerpundit on July 3, 2007 at 12:13 PM
I wouldn’t bet on that, India is already in a nuclear and ballistic missile race with Pakistan. Last thing that India wants is Pakistan’s nuclear weapons falling into the hands of radical Islamist, India already has the whole Muslim terrorist bombing shit going off in their cities, its been going on there for quite some time.
Muslims only make up 14% of India’s population but as everyone knows, wherever Islam goes so also follows terrorism, Muslims have been terrorizing India for some 1200 years already, don’t expect India to sit idly by while radical Muslims obtain nuclear weapons right next door.
When Pakistan obtained nuclear weapons India promptly did the exact same thing in retaliation. There was no possible way India was going to sit passively by while Pakistan developed nuclear weapons, and that was while the Pakistani government was and had for many years been a secular government.
Should the Musharraf government fall to radical Islamist you can pretty much count on India taking advantage of the chaos to eliminate any threat that Pakistan’s nuclear weapons might pose to India and since India is who those weapons were made for in the first place you can bet that India is not going to take their eyes off them any time soon.
If Pakistan falls into the hands of radical Islam a world of hurt is gong to descend on Pakistan the likes of which only Japan has ever felt.
doriangrey on July 3, 2007 at 1:39 PM
Why would we? most of us assume that the mosque is build with an armory included. Similarily, if you have a mosque being planned in your area, some examination of the plans might be in order, look for weird halls, rooms with no windows, unexplained tunnels, high narrow windows, etc.
Canadian Imperialist Running Dog on July 3, 2007 at 1:41 PM
Looking at the picture for this article, am I the only one that is reminded of the self-flagellating monks from Monty Python and the Holy Grail?
James on July 3, 2007 at 1:47 PM
Musharraf needs to be made to understand that when his regime begins to crumble his ticket out will be a complete list of the Pakistani nukes, (assuming we still need it). If we already have complete confidence that we know where they all are then let Musharraf suffer the fate he’s invited upon himself, unless he can offer us something else of great value in this conflict, primarily intel.
In the meantime, we should insist on free license in the tribal areas to eliminate the bad guys without informing Pakistan of our plans, at least not until after the fact. A lot of the Islamists now in the cities would rush back to Waziristan to defend their base, making Musharraf’s job in the cites much easier to deal with, I think.
The problem is that after we’ve taken the pressure off Musharraf, he’ll probably switch back to his appeasement strategy hoping that as long as we’re fighting his battles in the tribal areas for him he won’t have to take bold action in the cites and elsewhere.
At a certain point, if we know where the nukes are and feel we can eliminate them as a threat, we’re going to have to take a much more comprehensive approach to the Pakistan problem and Musharraf may not be part of that equation. If Pakistan refuses to eliminate their own terrorists then ultimately the responsibility becomes ours.
FloatingRock on July 3, 2007 at 2:30 PM
So do the students all have suicide jackets as part of their normal wardrobe? Is this like the Catholic tradition of being “confirmed” where at your Muslim extremist confirmation, you are equipped with a suicide jacket and an AK-47?
jediwebdude on July 3, 2007 at 2:40 PM
The Taliban with nukes?
Theworldisnotenough on July 3, 2007 at 2:44 PM
Given the accuracy of our intel lately, even if we thought we did know where all teh nukes are, I would still make the deal with Musharraf for teh locations. I guarantee he’s got stuff where we don’t know.
We should keep teh pressure on, but it is becoming increasingly clear that teh military is not willing to support him against the terrorists. He is just treading water, from what I can tell. Only a matter of time.
We need to know where those nukes are, no matter what!
Lancer on July 3, 2007 at 2:45 PM
I’d also keep India in the loop. We can’t expect them to sit on the sidelines and do nothing or hope that we take care of things if we don’t keep them involved. We may even find urselves doing a joint airstrike against the facilities
Lancer on July 3, 2007 at 2:50 PM
Reminds me of all the times the US special forces have had shoot outs with Crusading Christians in Ohio and Iowa.
gmoonster on July 3, 2007 at 3:47 PM
These “students” must have gone to the same “school” as the “students” who stormed the U.S. Embassy in Tehran in 1979.
7:00- Prostrations to Moon God; ullulations; nose cleaning.
8:00- -Breakfast. Zam-zam water and camel jerky.
8:30 -Cursing Infidel Dogs 101 (Coda: shouting Alahu Akbar! Awards for achieving 120 dB.).
9:00- AK-47 disassembly & cleaning; magazine oiling; ulluations.
12:00 Beheading lunch; sheeps’ eyeball dessert; ullulations.
1:00 -More prostrations to Moon God; whirling like dervishes; stoning Satan.
2:00 -Care & Maintenance of Your Suicide Belt 111. (Bring duct tape, WD40, Leatherman tool; cell phone [NO iphones!]).
4:00 -Readings from the Anarchist’s Cookbook 201.
5:00 -Supper: falafel surprise! Mare’s milk (unfermented).
6:00 -Prostrations to Moon God; caterwauling; ullulations.
7:00 -Molotov Cocktail Hour. (Lighter’s only! No matches! Remember Richard Reid!)
School’s…. been blown… to pieces!
profitsbeard on July 3, 2007 at 4:56 PM
With Islam being so “peaceful” and whatnot, why is it that, in the Middle East, urban renewal is moving one pile of debris from one place to another?
OhEssYouCowboys on July 3, 2007 at 4:59 PM
profitsbeard on July 3, 2007 at 4:56 PM
When you neither shave, nor bathe, there’s lot of time for extracurricular activities.
OhEssYouCowboys on July 3, 2007 at 5:03 PM
“Exit question: Is it time to withdraw support for Musharraf and let the chips fall where they may?
First I would give Mush an ultimatum and if he doesn’t go along with the plan we will pull all suport for him and conduct the operation ourselves! Tell Mush to first secure his nukes and then amass his troops around the tribal areas as an outer perimeter, then we start amassing an inner perimter to further surround the tribal areas, then along with the troops in Afghanistan start a squeeze play to concentrate them even further into a tightly cordoned area.
Once they are concentrated in a tight cordoned area get as many aircraft up (including predator drones, spector gun ships, etc) then hit the area with everything you have for days (carpet bombing as well as pin-point targeting). Hit anything that tries to escape the cordoned area and once they’re softened up sufficiently send in attack helos, armor, and troops in mass to finish them off!!
Who knows, we may even get OBL and his butt-buddy Zawahiri finally!
Liberty or Death on July 3, 2007 at 12:57 PM”
It’s past time to do this actually. And be prepared to call your congress as forcefully as was done during the amnesty sham.
pc on July 3, 2007 at 5:06 PM
And then do Iran while Israel does Syria and then come home. I would join up if I thought my country and government would follow through. I would implore my sons to do likewise. Sad because this government can’t be trusted with my life. That is sad.
pc on July 3, 2007 at 5:09 PM
come home and let the kids take care of the 50 year occupation. I guess we’ll have to really get messed up by these guys before we do what has to be done.
pc on July 3, 2007 at 5:11 PM
oh and Islam has been relatively peaceful until this generation took it’s foot off their throats. Our fathers understood a peaceful muslim was a completely overwhelmed one. And I mean that in a non-violent way. They just respected us. They don’t respect us any more. With the lack of leadership, it should have come as no surprise. Power vacuums historically lead to a resurgence of indigenous religious power. Worked that way in the Phillipines back when the US pushed Spain out with hardly a shot.
pc on July 3, 2007 at 5:15 PM
Nope. That sure wouldn’t be very encouraging to the Afghans and Iraqis now would it? Another “paper tiger” moment, and another example the Talib/AQ could point to other rulers and say “see, they always quit on you sooner or later, better make a deal with us.”
Also, we went into Afghanistan to clean out a state harbor for terrorists that attacked us - I had a lovely year there, but wouldn’t want to have to repeat, but in Pakistan next time…
major john on July 3, 2007 at 5:28 PM
Islam is the Religion of Piece(s)!
TruthToBeTold on July 3, 2007 at 5:59 PM
I don’t think it would be setting a good precedent to take back support just yet. Also giving fodder to Senate for the next supplemental, well if you don’t support Pakistan why don’t you withdraw from Iraq? I can hear that coming out of Blinky and Dingy already.
PowWow on July 3, 2007 at 6:21 PM