Reports: As many as four Glasgow jihadis were in MI5’s database; Update: AQI capo warned Brit, “Those who cure you will kill you”; Update: Broad strata alert!
posted at 8:46 pm on July 3, 2007 by Allahpundit
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Not all that surprising if the CBS story about them being linked to Al Qaeda in Iraq is true (which it might not be, but more on that in a moment). This would be easier to believe, though, if British sources hadn’t spent the last four days telling the papers they were going to have a collective coronary if these guys turned out to be “cleanskins,” i.e., completely unknown to western intelligence.
So it turns out, conveniently, they weren’t cleanskins. They were just a bit more dangerous than MI5 thought.
Several doctors arrested over the London and Glasgow car bomb plot were on the files of MI5, it was disclosed last night.
At least one was on a Home Office watch list after being identified by security services – meaning their travel in and out of Britain was monitored by immigration officers.
Others were found to be on the MI5 database, which contains an estimated 2,000 suspected jihadists or supporters of terrorism.
Whitehall sources said they had not been involved in previous plots, but were “people who knew people” who were under observation.
The fact that they were “on the radar” was one reason why the investigation has moved so fast since the failed plot was sprung last Friday morning.
The Daily Mail says there may be as many as four of them in MI5’s files. But were they really working for AQI? The Telegraph is skeptical:
British security sources insisted there was no intelligence that al-Qa’eda commanders plotted to infiltrate the NHS.
Most of the alleged cell members arrived in this country after 2004 to take up NHS jobs. It is believed they were recruited in Britain. Whitehall sources said that, as yet, there was no sign of any orders, instructions or training from al-Qa’eda based in Pakistan.
Isikoff and Hosenball made the same point today about AQ leadership in Pakistan not being involved. Doubtless that’s true, but no one’s suggesting that they were; after all, they’re not involved in day to day operations in Iraq either. The question is whether AQI freelanced this by recruiting some of the actual operatives in the Middle East or, alternatively, recruiting a ringleader who was sent to Britain to recruit there. I mentioned a story in the previous thread in the Guardian about a possible homegrown element to this plot; tonight CBS is hearing the same thing, “that two or three arrests were likely to be seen in Britain by the end of the week and that some of the arrests will be of British nationals.”
Stay tuned. Meanwhile, another British ex-jihadist is begging mainstream Muslim leaders to denounce extremism. And right on cue, here’s one now. If only his group didn’t muddle the message by “staying away” from Holocaust Remembrance Day.
Update: Finally, the AQI connection explained.
An al-Qaeda leader in Iraq boasted before last week’s failed bombings in London and Glasgow that his group was planning to attack British targets and that “those who cure you will kill you”, The Times has learnt…
Canon White told The Times that he had passed the general warning, but not the specific words, to a senior official at the Foreign and Commonwealth Office (FCO) in mid-April. A Foreign Office spokesman said last night that it was forwarding the actual words to the Metropolitan Police…
Canon White, who runs Baghdad’s only Anglican parish, said that he met the al-Qaeda leader on the fringes of a meeting about religious reconciliation held in Amman, the Jordanian capital…
The man, who was in his forties and had travelled from Syria for the meeting, said that the plans would come to fruition in the next few weeks and target the British first. He said that the British and Americans were being targeted because of their actions in Iraq. He did not learn the man’s identity until after the meeting, and will not disclose it now, but said: “I met the Devil that day.”
Forgive a stupid question here but what’s an Al Qaeda capo doing hanging around interfaith outreach meetings? And talking to Christian clerics, no less?
Another detail from the Times piece worth footnoting: Bilal Abdulla, the Iraqi doctor who drove the Jeep in Glasgow, first met Mohammed Asha, the accused ringleader, in the Middle East through their fathers, who were friends. They kept in touch (to say the least) after both arrived in Britain.
Update: Tony Blair bad, Gordon Brown good!
Update: We have our first “broad strata” alert of this incident. With Iraqis and Jordanians already in the mix, there’s no telling how diverse this group of medically trained Arab Islamist nuts will get.
Update: Cops tell the Guardian that they suspect fuel-air bombs were used because the plotters knew British intel was keeping tabs on fertilizer purchases. Propane flies a little further under the radar so it’s a safer, albeit less effective, bet for an attack these days. Meanwhile, the Independent has more background on Bilal Abdulla and Khalid Ahmed, the two men who actually carried out the attacks. The more I read, the more it looks like Abdulla might be the ringleader:
Shiraz Maher, a friend of Bilal Abdulla and a former member of controversial Islamic group Hizb-ut-Tahir, told Newsnight: “He supported the insurgency in Iraq. He actively cheered the deaths of British and American troops in Iraq. One of his best friends had been killed by a Shia militia tank while he was at medical school. He was clearly very angry about what was happening. But to say it was just all about Iraq or foreign policy is mistaken. It feeds off a much wider ideological infrastructure.“…
[T]he police believe Dr Abdulla and Dr Ahmed were the most active members of the cell and those tasked with carrying out the attacks. The two men lived what was considered uneventful and normal lives in Glasgow and Dr Abdulla made efforts to fit into the local environment attending Glasgow Rangers football matches. According to the security agencies the two men arrived in London last week driving the two Mercedes saloons. Dr Abdulla is said to have been subsequently identified by an employee of an establishment in Haymarket, where the two cars were parked. Unconfirmed reports say that he was also photographed by a CCTV camera in the area.
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Meanwhile, CNN continues to Downplay, and the Labour goverment spokesWOMAN keeps talking about the ‘diversity of the terrorist threat’
CNN first reported this as a ‘car accident’ in front of the airport……..
Janos Hunyadi on July 3, 2007 at 8:57 PM
The best the Brits could do at this point is to celebrate our independence day by using up all the propane in the UK grilling plenty of ribs.
AZCON on July 3, 2007 at 8:58 PM
Where’s Matthew MacFaddyen when you need him?
Blake on July 3, 2007 at 9:04 PM
Al-BBC’s main story on this on it’s web news is headlined…
“Terror suspects all linked to NHS”
And nowhere in the following 600 word article do they mention Islam or Islamist. As far as Al-BBC is concerned this is a plot by doctors of no particular religion to kill people for no particular cause or reason.
Where is Enoch Powell now we need him ?
London Boy on July 3, 2007 at 9:06 PM
Just what is it going to take to make people take the terrorist threat seriously? This is mindboggling. How many people have to die?
katieanne on July 3, 2007 at 9:31 PM
Spinning in his grave. We could power the UK by attaching a turbine to his corpse he’s spinning so fast. Rivers of Blood indeed. But ever Enoch didn’t say that immigrants on the government payroll would try to commit suicide mass murder in Scotland.
Thomas the Wraith on July 3, 2007 at 9:31 PM
I must translate for the youths: Think of Tancredo, but older and much crankier, with a brilliantly dark sense of humor that few appreciated
Janos Hunyadi on July 3, 2007 at 9:32 PM
as to your not so stupid question-
the emphasized words might explain. Reconciliation. Since Islam wont budge, seems as if Canon White was giving away the farm.
religious reconciliation, w/ Islam = Now THAT’S an oxymoronic phrase.
shooter on July 3, 2007 at 9:48 PM
Agreed. My first question would be “Okay what are you guys gonna give up”?
Now EVERY Muslim doctor is suspect. Is he out to heal me or kill me for the moon god.
Mojave Mark on July 3, 2007 at 10:14 PM
Isnt it one of their “rules” that Muslims must give a warning or something before they attack? Like OBL did SO many times? And they are bragging too..that is also a trait the Islamists seem to revel in ..teasing their victims. Nice.
labwrs on July 3, 2007 at 10:39 PM
Mark – I’ll pass your sentiments to my doc, Dr. Quadri. Seeing how he cleared his schedule to make sure I got anything I needed done before deploying. And refusing anything beyond what Tricare reimbursed for my family while I was overseas…sheesh.
I’m wary too – but lets just keep the broad brush strokes down a tad. The Brits apparently took in any immigrants from anywhere (and regardless of background) because their miserable socialized medicine system can’t produce any docs. Pity they didn’t bother to do much looking before letting them in. I’ll bet they might manage to do a little checking now!
major john on July 3, 2007 at 10:46 PM
Good question. Remember, in 1972 500 people died and there were 1300 bombings in the Troubles and the Brits didn’t expel or detain the Irish or go totally apesh1t against the IRA.
I bet the Brits can convince themselves that Islamist terror is manageable as long as each attack has a (relatively) low death toll and the attacks aren’t constant, daily events. I bet as long as the death toll in under 1000 a year (even if only slightly) then the Brits, thanks to their shameless government and Orwellian media, will view this as just another kind of Troubles.
Thomas the Wraith on July 3, 2007 at 11:08 PM
Racist or prophet ? These are some extracts from Enoch Powell’s 1968 speech that got him fired from the Conservative party and attacked by the MSM and Britain’s political elites.
” Here is a decent, ordinary fellow Englishman, who in broad daylight in my own town says to me, his Member of Parliament, that his country will not be worth living in for his children. I simply do not have the right to shrug my shoulders and think about something else. What he is saying, thousands and hundreds of thousands are saying and thinking – not throughout Great Britain, perhaps, but in the areas that are already undergoing the total transformation to which there is no parallel in a thousand years of English history.
In 15 or 20 years, on present trends, there will be in this country three and a half million Commonwealth immigrants and their descendants. That is not my figure. That is the official figure given to parliament by the spokesman of the Registrar General’s Office. There is no comparable official figure for the year 2000, but it must be in the region of five to seven million, approximately one-tenth of the whole population, and approaching that of Greater London. Of course, it will not be evenly distributed from Margate to Aberystwyth and from Penzance to Aberdeen. Whole areas, towns and parts of towns across England will be occupied by sections of the immigrant and immigrant-descended population.”
“The sense of being a persecuted minority which is growing among ordinary English people in the areas of the country which are affected (by immigration) is something that those without direct experience can hardly imagine.”
“Now we are seeing the growth of positive forces acting against integration, of vested interests in the preservation and sharpening of racial and religious differences, with a view to the exercise of actual domination, first over fellow-immigrants and then over the rest of the population.”
“the immigrant communities can organise to consolidate their members, to agitate and campaign against their fellow citizens, and to overawe and dominate the rest with the legal weapons which the ignorant and the ill-informed have provided. As I look ahead, I am filled with foreboding; like the Roman, I seem to see “the River Tiber foaming with much blood.”
London Boy on July 3, 2007 at 11:12 PM
Un-freakin-believ….uh well maybe not. Clearly a “broad strata” refers to the multiple ways these Islamathugs are willing to kill us.
Dirthead on July 3, 2007 at 11:22 PM
” I bet as long as the death toll in under 1000 a year (even if only slightly) then the Brits, thanks to their shameless government and Orwellian media, will view this as just another kind of Troubles.”
I hate to say this but you’re probably right. Back in the 1960s the murder of a teenager by other teenagers would have warranted weeks of national newspaper headlines. Now, every single day in Britain, one or more kids under 16 are being stabbed to death or shot by fellow teenagers. By far the biggest group of killers are those from very recent immigrant backgrounds. Do the British MSM clamour for something to be done about these incessent murders ? No, they hush them up , blame British “racism”, blame violent video games BUT never, never question the system that allows in tens of thousands of immigrants from Third World war zones (especially Somalia) without thinking that there might be negative consequences for the British population.
London Boy on July 3, 2007 at 11:38 PM
London Boy –
“Not worth living in”, indeed. In many, many ways Enoch was right on target. In many other ways he had no idea how bad it would get. I ordered a book from Amazon.uk earlier this year that I, as a non-Brit, found fascinating. Time to Emigrate? by George Walden, ex-Tory MP and member of the Thatcher government. It’s an open letter to his grown son weighing the pros and cons of the younger Walden and his young family leaving Britain. As you mentioned, it’s not just the threat of Islamists terror but also violent crime, the inevitable decline in personal liberty, along with the sheer overcrowding and expense of life in Britain that, among other considerations, led Walden to basically tell his son to get out now while he can. A personal and despairing book.
The odds of being hurt in a terror attack, even in the worst situation, is basically zero. But who wants to living in a declining society? Who wants to raise a family under such conditions? Who wants to be taxed to pay for your own colonization? Who wants to watch, up close and personal, the erosion of a once great culture and its replacement by barbaric tribes of aliens? Who wants, in the course of a few disastrous generations, to become a minority of “indigenous people” in your own homeland? No me and not you and I would guess not a lot of Brits. But if the tides of history are turning against you, then perhaps there is not shame, indeed there is honor, in sparing your family such a bleak future.
Perhaps I’m being pessimistic so late at night. But Britain, once the leading culture on the planet that has given so much to literature and the arts, to commerce, to science, to freedom itself, puts me in a pessimistic mood.
Thomas the Wraith on July 4, 2007 at 12:38 AM
Why weren’t there any women doctors?
Don’t tell me the Brits are discriminating against letting in Muslim women terrorsts?
Shame on them!
If they’re going to die at someone’s hands, it might as well be through the gentle touch of a woman jihadi.
(Plus, they would have gotten those car-bombs to go off, since they are more fastidious and thorough by nature than ham-handed men.)
More diversity!
profitsbeard on July 4, 2007 at 12:39 AM
Thomas the Wraith, no, I don’t think you are being pessimistic – you are being realistic. White flight from London and most of our big cities is in full swing – ironically enough I know of several liberals who spouted the multi-cultural line until they had families of their own and then decided they didn’t want their kids growing up getting mugged everyday. They all moved to still predominatly white Cornwall and Devon while one media couple I know fled to New Zealand. It is the poor British working class I feel most sorry for – they are the ones at the sharp end of the vast social engineering project that the pro-immigration lobby has foisted on us since the 1950s. They are the ones who have to live amongst the successive waves of Third World newcomers whilst the liberal elites stay safe in their wealthy enclaves. The middle class and wealthy can also emigrate much more easily than the unskilled white working class. The traditional escape routes for the working class who’d had enough of Britain were Canada, Australia and New Zealand who have all now virtually closed the door on them. The USA is probably the one country most Brits would love to emigrate to but the State Department has made that virtually impossible unless you’re married to a US citizen. So , there’s nowhere for the shrinking working class to escape to any more- they are forced out of more and more of their traditional areas and are derided as “racists” if they ever complain about what is happening to a country that they proudly fought for for almost one thousand years.
London Boy on July 4, 2007 at 1:18 AM
And talking to Christian clerics, no less?
mjkazee on July 4, 2007 at 1:21 AM
Excuse me, still working on the block quotes and getting them right.
mjkazee on July 4, 2007 at 1:23 AM
So Mr. Brown Mr. Brown. In office two days and you have provided the answer. Sounds a lot like Clinton if you ask me. In office six months and the economy is all my doing, then pass the biggest tax hike in US history. Wunderbar
mjkazee on July 4, 2007 at 1:34 AM
Looks like Al-Britain is reaping the results of sewing seeds of liberalism.
Our media would have us do the same.
unamused on July 4, 2007 at 2:13 AM
I can’t assign any limits to the British’ accommodation to muslims’ attacks, either. However, if we can trust the available demographic accounts, then a vital difference between the conflict with the Irish “republicans” and this present conflict is that the British are aging without having reproduced themselves, while muslims are having large families. The problem can’t even be reduced to headcounts of muslims and all others. Putting matters in round terms, middle-aged Englishmen are heavy and slow, old Englishmen are feeble and dependent, and young muslim men are independent, aggressive, healthy, and agile. Old Englishwomen are menopausal; young muslim women are fertile. Moreover, young muslim men are commanded by a divine law requiring them to subdue unbelievers by threats, force, taxes, and death; so far, young English men, to the extent there are any, have no such divine command.
Kralizec on July 4, 2007 at 2:37 AM
That Guardian story was nauseating. It’s as if they were chiding him for having the bad taste to suggest Al-Qaeda was linked to this.
How can people be so willfully obtuse?
Vyce on July 4, 2007 at 4:45 AM
From the NYTimes article (Blair bad, Brown good):
We will no longer use the phrase “war on terror”, you can’t use muslim and terrorist in the same sentence, etc
So the spinning already begins. It’s only “political” when it’s an interpretation they don’t like. When it’s an interpretation they DO like it’s “a breath of fresh air describing a proper reaction to distasteful events”.
Skywise on July 4, 2007 at 5:15 AM
http://www.breitbart.tv/html/2535.html
This seems to me a step forward in the kind of straight talk needed now. The fear of being called names is probably the strongest factor influencing Western war strategy now (or rather, prohibiting a rational strategy).
Halley on July 4, 2007 at 5:34 AM
London Boy,
Thank you for your very informative (albeit depressing)insight into the nightmarish situation in Britain – it helps complete the picture that Mark Steyn and others have drawn for us.
That Enoch Powell statement is brilliant. Where is he indeed? I’d like to see a vestige of him in our Presidential candidates.
As an American, this business of the State Department not letting Brits immigrate is infuriating and must be changed back to what it used to be before we began committing cultural suicide – where we gave preference to people who, as heirs to Western Civilization, were willing and able to assimilate into our Republic.
Buy Danish on July 4, 2007 at 10:18 AM
London Boy and Kralizec -
I leave you with a quote from Seneca:
Perhaps this should now become the national motto of the United Kingdom.
Thomas the Wraith on July 4, 2007 at 10:50 AM
Thomas the Wraith-
Don’t forget Cato the Elder.
ISLAM DELENDE EST.
Or did he say CATHAGO?
Mutatis mutandis.
profitsbeard on July 4, 2007 at 12:10 PM
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