The Difference Between Legal and Illegal Immigrants Is Simpler Than the L.A. Times’s Rosa Brooks Realizes

posted at 2:20 pm on June 30, 2007 by Patterico

Rosa Brooks of the L.A. Times writes in praise of immigrants, comparing them favorably to Americans, whom she labels “fat, decadent and getting dumber all the time.” By contrast, she says: “Immigrants put us to shame. They’re healthier, stronger, thriftier and braver.”

Plenty of Americans don’t fit Brooks’s dismissive description of Americans as “fat, decadent and getting dumber all the time.” Brooks might have to walk outside the confines of the Los Angeles Times building to find them — but they’re out there.

But I didn’t write this post just to take cheap shots at the L.A. Times. My beef is this: Brooks doesn’t bother to distinguish between legal and illegal immigrants — except in one respect . . . to praise the courage of illegal immigrants:

[W]hen it comes to illegal immigrants, just getting here takes astounding courage. Illegal immigrants endure astonishing privation and risk — just for the chance to improve their lot by doing the backbreaking work so few native-born Americans have the inclination to do. While we demand McMansions, they share cramped apartments. We’re up to our ears in consumer debt; they save almost every dollar to send to their less-well-off relatives.

The younger generation of illegal immigrants is particularly impressive.

There’s some truth to her praise for the pluck of immigrants — including illegal immigrants, many of whom are simply coming to this country to make a better life for their families.

But there is another difference between legal and illegal immigrants, and it’s pretty basic: one group is legal; the other is not. One group has followed a tortuous legal process to become citizens; the other has not.

I don’t know how many of you have attended a naturalization ceremony, in which immigrants who have chosen to follow the legal path to citizenship finally arrive at their goal. I was fortunate enough to attend such an event in 1996, at the Los Angeles Convention Center. I was clerking for a federal judge at the time, and he addressed thousands of new citizens that day. You could see the pride on their faces as they recited the Oath of Citizenship (.doc file), renouncing allegiance to all other countries:

I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty, of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or a citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by law; that I will perform noncombatant service in the Armed Forces of the United States when required by law; that I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by law; and that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God.

It was a moving experience that I will never forget. The scene was very much like this photo from another such ceremony:

naturalization-ceremony.jpg

New citizens generally must demonstrate their good moral character and a knowledge of English and civics. They must live in the United States for specified periods of time without leaving the country for 6 months or more. They must attend interviews, take tests, fill out forms, and pay fees. You can read all about it in a large .pdf file called A Guide to Citizenship.

Amazingly, people still engage in this process, by the thousands.

Amazingly, many people actually respect the law.

The difference between legal and illegal immigrants lies not in their measure of courage, but in the depth of their respect for the laws of the United States. This is not a meaningless distinction, and Rosa Brooks — and all the other people trying to push amnesty for illegal immigrants — ought to recognize this.

[Patterico blogs at Patterico.com and can be reached at patterico -AT- gmail -DOT- com.]


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Darn fine post Patterico.

Theworldisnotenough on June 30, 2007 at 2:22 PM

The Liberals act as if the United States ought to be wide-open to anyone in the world. That’s not true- US citizenship is earned, not taken.

I have many good, legal immigrant friends. Japanese, Norwegian, Chinese, Ukrainian and Brazilian. Our country is stronger due to them. Me and millions of Americans who think like me aren’t racists, we just want to preserve this greatest nation.

gmoonster on June 30, 2007 at 2:28 PM

[W]hen it comes to illegal immigrants, just getting here takes astounding courage. Illegal immigrants endure astonishing privation and risk — just for the chance to improve their lot by doing the backbreaking work so few native-born Americans have the inclination to do. While we demand McMansions, they share cramped apartments. We’re up to our ears in consumer debt; they save almost every dollar to send to their less-well-off relatives.

The younger generation of illegal immigrants is particularly impressive.

whoa! That needs fixing.

When it comes to illegal immigrants, just getting here shows contempt for our laws and sovereignty. Illegal immigrants put Americans health and jobs at risk — just for the chance to improve their lot by taking jobs so few native-born Americans are encouraged to do. While we legally pursue our dreams, they share cramped apartments which drive down property values and scare off businesses. We’re up to our ears in consumer choices; they take almost every dollar to send out of the country.

The younger generation of illegal immigrants is particularly offensive.

Guardian on June 30, 2007 at 2:31 PM

My wife took the hard way. Visas, work permits, green cards, citizenship classes, lost paperwork, SNAFU’d hearings, forms forms and more forms, legal fees, tax audits….years of it.

Then she took the oath, burned the Green and Gold, and hung up the Stars and Stripes. Nuf said.

Limerick on June 30, 2007 at 2:32 PM

To walk into a bank with AK47′s , m16′s, 2 or 3 more machine guns and a couple of .45 cal. hand guns (the Hollywood Shootout) they were brave too.
Brave yet horribly criminal.
Driving drunk with no license and being an illegal alien, brave (stupid yet brave).

Could one stupendously stupid woman ruin the meaning of brave? In the HOME OF THE BRAVE?

Go away rosa brooks, just go away.

shooter on June 30, 2007 at 2:33 PM

I attended a good friends naturalization ceremony over a year ago and it was very moving. My friend was pretty calm about the whole thing leading up to it but my normally stoic friend was pretty chocked while taking that oath.

I think one reason he was so blase about the whole thing until that moment was he had to endure a nearly 20 year process, forgo numerous job offers and suffer through a mind numbing bureaucratic process. And this is a man with a post graduate degree.

The only down side to the whole ceremony was the federal judge who administered the oath and gave a little talk afterwards. He said now that they were citizens they could do a number of things they couldn’t do before. Silly me, I thought he would say vote and participate in the democratic system but no, the number one benefit according to this federal judge was…sponsor family members to become citizens. Ugh.

Drew on June 30, 2007 at 2:34 PM

If there is any stagnancy in the US, it is most definitely generated (degenerated) by the uneducated, uninsured, 33% doubly criminal, illegal immigrants that have INVADED the US of A to the tune of millions.

Now I’m pissed!

shooter on June 30, 2007 at 2:38 PM

That is what my friend is trying to do, but thanks to Amnesty, he was bothered that they were going to get the free ride and he was going to continue suffering to stay in the US.

Even worse was few of them know English and fewer have educations, but he knows English and is about to become a Civil Engineer.

Tim Burton on June 30, 2007 at 2:42 PM

The difference between legal and illegal immigrants lies not in their measure of courage, but in the depth of their respect for the laws of the United States. This is not a meaningless distinction, and Rosa Brooks — and all the other people trying to push amnesty for illegal immigrants — ought to recognize this.

Right on the button.

I would add:

If any migrant can just move in, make babies and stay, why then should they care, about assimilation, respecting our traditions, live by our morals or care about obeying our laws? Why should their children grow up to love and protect the unity of America when their parents hate us to begin with? Why should immigrants of any status respect us or our beloved Nation when we don’t respect ourselves enough to fight for our own Nation’s unity and security?

Speakup on June 30, 2007 at 2:46 PM

I don’t know very many people who are “anti-immigrant” so much as they are “anti-illegal immigrant”. Yeah, there are a lot of good people who would help this country. They just have to come in LEGALLY! And if the red-tape involved in that process the true problem, then demand that the government fix it instead of demanding amnesty and fighting border controls.

WisCon on June 30, 2007 at 2:50 PM

Stuff it, Rosa.

jeanie on June 30, 2007 at 2:53 PM

Patrick strikes again. Well done, sir.

I’ve had the chance to attend several naturalization ceremonies, some where all involved were military members, one massive one at a stadium, and one here in San Diego that a Japanese coworker was a part of. I don’t cry at the end of Old Yeller, but I always tear up at those ceremonies, they are that powerful.

Freelancer on June 30, 2007 at 2:54 PM

Thank you for telling us about the moving scenario of legal immigrants taking their Oath of Citizenship.

INC on June 30, 2007 at 2:54 PM

What makes this worse is that Rosa Brooks is not, in fact, just some clueless journalist for the LA Times, but she is actually a law professor who has had the privilege of teaching at some of our nation’s finest law schools.

Is this the level of respect for the rule of law that she would imbue in her students? One hopes not, but it wouldn’t surprise me.

OldZach on June 30, 2007 at 2:55 PM

That’s exactly the point, getting a free pass negates any pride in becoming a U.S. citizen, and mocks those that went through the system.

bmac on June 30, 2007 at 3:00 PM

Typical liberal post. She talks about “McMansions” and Americans being fat and decadent. I don’t know about her … but I work for a living, and definitely don’t live in a “McMansion”. The only conclusion I can come to, is she’s so out of touch with America that ‘s projecting her world onto us. She’s essentially useless as a reporter and editorialist.

Emigrate to Mexico Rosa.

darwin on June 30, 2007 at 3:03 PM

Speakup:

Question:

If any migrant can just move in, make babies and stay, why then should they care, about assimilation, respecting our traditions, live by our morals or care about obeying our laws?

Answer:

They don’t. Depending on what part of town you hang out at or where you shop, you can see it every day.

And Rosa Brooks is just expressing her politically correct bigotry, the new “mandatory bigotry” aginst America, Americans, and the West in General.

Why would someone who hates America and Americans expect immigrants to want to assimilate? I mean, yuck, who would want to be a eewie American?

I keep looking back to Evan Sayet’s hypothesis that the left’s core trope that nothing is better than anything else leads them to attack first those who try to do the right thing – like immigrate according to the rules – because if your “first concept” is that of indiscriminateness then your first enemy is those who discriminate, for example, between right and wrong.

Merovign on June 30, 2007 at 3:10 PM

Here is my email to this bimbo:

As a Latina, legal immigrant and American citizen for over 45 years, let me tell you that my gardener who says he is here legally, but I doubt it, said basically the same
thing to me…and, I told him that just because we didn’t wish to do a thing didn’t mean we couldn’t do a thing and if we chose to do our own gardening (mow blow and go)
he wouldn’t be able to support his family or turn half his business over to his son! He looked at me with wide eyes and had to agree after about 10 seconds of thought!!

It is people like you who have become the 21st Century equivalent of the gestapo. A member of a group of people who hate America but won’t leave and will do anything
to get in and stay here, live off of our good works instead of demanding that their countries afford them the same opportunities……gee, I wonder why they don’t?
Rich elitists perhaps? Like you?

sharinlite on June 30, 2007 at 3:16 PM

New flash immigration is a privilege not a right. The only one with the rights is the American people not the illegals.

Mojack420 on June 30, 2007 at 3:21 PM

I think we need to check Rosa’s green card.

tballard on June 30, 2007 at 3:25 PM

Amazingly, people still engage in this process, by the thousands.

Amazingly, many people actually respect the law.

I have gone trough this process less than a year ago, when I was sworn in as a citizen of this great country. Before that, I was here on a student visa and then as a green card holder for almost ten years ( that long by my own choosing ).

If we look at the the process legal visitors and citizens of this country go through, when they travel abroad, and compare that to the ‘wet backs’ in this country, the difference is just irreconcilable.

THN on June 30, 2007 at 3:26 PM

They come here for a WHAT- a better life. That’s why they literally ran me and my family out of our home. A home I had worked on for 15 years.(and they knew that, I guess it made it more speacial for them)..Now I see bad omen’s out here in the good old suburbs. Just too much dam drug-cartel money up here anymore.. And stop with this how religious they all are, they think of Jesus as like a gene in a bottle type of character thats going to give them some kind of prize. I heard that comment on the Laura Ingraham’s show from a legal mex.Amer. and I believed her..

Legions on June 30, 2007 at 3:28 PM

Illegals could care less about this country. They are lawbreakers, who care only about themselves and what they can take. They already live outside the law and in doing so, create a situation where their lawless behavior determines all of their actions. Finding unity with other criminals just provides the incentive for their lawlessness and leads to the creation of their own fantasy existence.

Hening on June 30, 2007 at 3:29 PM

sharinlite …

Nice email

darwin on June 30, 2007 at 3:37 PM

Legal immigration makes us all proud to be Americans.

Illegal aliens do not have the brains or guts to admire legal immigration.

Jaibones on June 30, 2007 at 3:40 PM

For every good American kid they can hook on their drugs at an early age, it’s another life time job opening up for their anhcor babies..

Legions on June 30, 2007 at 3:47 PM

But we should pause before we insist that immigrants assimilate. The same studies that show immigrants are healthier and less violent also suggest that the inoculating effects of immigrant status wear off over the years. By the time you get to the grandchildren of immigrants, you can no longer detect much difference.

In other words: Immigrants beware! Assimilation into American culture may be hazardous to your health and your values.

As for the rest of us — instead of insisting that immigrants assimilate to our culture, maybe we should consider assimilating to theirs. It might be the only way to bring back the values of our ancestors — who were, as everyone knows, immigrants themselves.

I can barely believe that her editors actually allowed her to publish that… then I remembered it’s that rag, the L.A. Times. Anything and everything out of that rag isn’t worth the droppings it’s best used for at the bottom of a bird cage.

SilverStar830 on June 30, 2007 at 3:49 PM

go ahead, take cheap shots at the LA Times you have most of southern californias’ permission.

pk on June 30, 2007 at 3:54 PM

No more easy Amer. white prey for them in the cities anymore, all who stay now are all well connected and they only respect those type and their children. NO the easy prey now is out here in the suburb’s. Soooo Soooo EASY…

Legions on June 30, 2007 at 4:02 PM

I am a legal immigrant. Rosa writes like this is as a veil racial issue, but it’s not. It’s a national security issue. We have too many laws that are not being enforced. Immigration is just one of many. I am a legal immigrant.

Kini on June 30, 2007 at 4:09 PM

It’s funny. I find myself wishing that our Founding Fathers had put an amendment into the Constitution requiring that the borders be secured by any means necessary, be it with a fence, soldiers, or both. And that no person entering this country illegally would ever be allowed to become a citizen, and that they would be immediately deported upon discovery.

Trouble is, especially with regards to basic border security, the Founding Fathers would have been like “Well, duh. We need an amendment for that?”

It would sure come in handy these days.

Hawkins1701 on June 30, 2007 at 4:10 PM

You could see the pride on their faces as they recited the Oath of Citizenship…

I wonder how many of our lefty American friends (including Ms. Brooks) who were born into citizenship would be willing to take that Oath.

infidel4life on June 30, 2007 at 4:11 PM

I love standing next to illegal aliens. I look like a Greek God in comparison.

BDavis on June 30, 2007 at 4:11 PM

I think someone wants to rub Allahs nose into the fact he doesnt have an I phone

Mexican immigrants smile after purchasing iPhones Friday, June 29, 2007 inside the Apple store at The Grove in Los Angeles.

William Amos on June 30, 2007 at 4:24 PM

Great post. Look at the pride on their faces too.

What’s so hard to understand about legal vs illegal? Oh that’s right we’re dumb. There was a poll. I read about it somewhere.
I know some people, no not named Tommy, that came here from Ireland legally. They’ve been waiting for citizenship for quite a while now. They were furious at the thought that shamnesty was going to pass. This crap from Ms Brooks and her ilk about 2 Americas has become very old, very fast.

PowWow on June 30, 2007 at 4:28 PM

Dr. Micheal Savage on talk radio.. If he’s in your listening area give him a try. 5pm cst.M-F, He not only know’s these illegal’s, he know’s how to beat them back..

Legions on June 30, 2007 at 4:30 PM

Here is a copy of a letter I sent in response to the idiot who wrote this article:

Rosa,
Your article is so fundamentally flawed that I dare say that you need to go get your head checked. Why don’t you take a step out of Los Angeles for once in your life and take a good look out the REAL AMERICA before you make such harsh judgement. You call us fat and lazy. Fat maybe for some, but lazy? I call not wanting to fix your own country lazy. I call not trying to improve your life in your own country lazy. I call taking free education and free government services (which MANY illegal immigrants get) lazy. When we didn’t like the way our country was being run by the British we had the guts and determination to stand and fight. In history, when trouble abounded in the world, who did the world call for help? Mexico? Guatemala? Any Middle American countries? I think not. The call has always been for AMERICA to help.
You call us stupid. You say we don’t we don’t know geography yet you praise a people who IGNORE geography (Yes there really is a border between the U.S. and Mexico). You say we don’t know history yet you praise a people who ignore history (No, the United States did not steal Mexico and no the border “did not cross them”). You say we don’t know about government and politics yet you praise a people who thrives on breaking laws. (Yes, being in the country illegally, stealing identity, using false documents, and not paying taxes ARE crimes. Take 12 million people and add up all those crimes and then put them in your crime statistics. Let me know when you’re done if they still have a lower crime rate. And you call these people “straight arrows”.). By the way, the defeat of the immigration bill was government in action. The people spoke and the politicians are finally listening. In this country, we are governed by the will of the many, not the will of the few. If you don’t don’t like it perhaps you could move to Mexico.
I find it very ironic that you call us stupid yet it is the illegal immigrants who are DESTROYING the education system. Teachers are forced to slow down and teach to the speed of illegal immigrant kids who do not speak English. They are forced to teach classrooms in size up to 50 students. Students are not getting the attention they deserve in the schools because there are not enough schools, not enough teachers, and not enough money to increase either.
You say that illegals do the backbreaking work that Americans won’t do. That is a lie. Americans won’t do the work illegals do for minimum wage. American workers have a RIGHT to earn decent wages to support their families. Would you do YOUR job for minimum wage? I think not. In this country economics ( which includes all business) is fueled by supply and demand. That is how businesses set prices. Yet when it comes to wages, businesses do not want to play by the same rules. They want to manipulate the supply by using cheap illegal labor. If illegal labor were suddenly not available do you think these companies would go out of business? I highly doubt it. If a company could only survive on an illegal work force then that company had no business being in business in the first place. I keep hearing about “jobs Americans won’t do”. The list has been growing over the years. First it was agriculture jobs. Then janitorial and maid jobs. Now it’s construction, contracting, engineering, etc. The list just keeps growing. Maybe in a few more years when enough illegals get here us Americans can just sit back and live off of the taxes illegals bring in. Oh, what’s that? They don’t pay taxes? Darn, I guess we are all doomed.
In this country there is a process to become a legal citizen. I may not agree with the process or the length of time it takes but it is the law just the same. I have to follow ALL of the laws and expect people who come into this country legally or illegally to do the same thing. Also, in order to become a citizen, you are required to be proficient in English and to swear an oath of allegiance to this country, foresaking, allegiance to any other country. Many illegals have no desire to do that. They want to come here, use are schools, use our hospitals, use our social services, but still be Mexicans (or whatever nationality they may be). This is proven by the demonstrations where illegals are flying foreign flags. That is ABSOLUTELY UNACCEPTABLE. It is also proven by the fact that so many businesses I deal with on a daily basis have employees who do not understand a word of English. That also is ABSOLUTELY UNACCEPTABLE.
Yes, it is true that most Americans arrived here through immigration. My ancestors were immigrants. But when they got here they got here legally, learned English, and became proud Americans. Something illegals have no desire to do. So the next time you want to bash Americans, you may want to just expand your horizons and open up your eyes to the big picture. Los Angeles is not representative of America as a whole.

calirighty on June 30, 2007 at 4:47 PM

I was fortunate enough to attend such an event in 1996, at the Los Angeles Convention Center

Patterico, was the date 11/13/96 ? If so, then I was one of those proud new citizens ! The events of almost 5 years later (7/11) made me even more American.

SIJ6141 on June 30, 2007 at 4:47 PM

… whom she labels “fat, decadent and getting dumber all the time.”

How does she know so much about me? It’s uncanny.

And isn’t it supposed to be verboten to stereotype groups? Or does that just apply to certain groups?

Bill Ramey on June 30, 2007 at 5:01 PM

My nephew married a sweet young lady who came to the USA as a refugee from the death squads in El Salvador. Her mother and 2 sisters arrived here nearly 15 years ago when she was 13.

She gained her citizenship in 2005. She sent letters to us, her relatives by marriage, and all her friends and family announcing her swearing ceremony. We were all invited to attend.

She has her papers framed and hung on her living room wall. She is proud of her accomplishments and loves and is loved and cherished by her ‘new’ family.

These are the shorts of immigrants our nations needs. Not another uneducated dependent class. There are too many home grown dependents as it is.

Sailor7 on June 30, 2007 at 5:05 PM

I am a legal immigrant.

Kini on June 30, 2007 at 4:09 PM

Didn’t know that my friend. Makes two of us :)

Patterico, just reading, above, made me cry. Words can’t explain the emotions one lives through on such a nobel and grateful occasion. And the American authorities, and through them her people, make one feel so welcome. This process has gone on and will go on for a loooong time. And it’s such a joyous and unforgettable one.

Exceptional point

I wonder how many of our lefty American friends (including Ms. Brooks) who were born into citizenship would be willing to take that Oath.

infidel4life on June 30, 2007 at 4:11 PM

Probably not many, especially not today, with BDS and all.

Notice how trolls never comment on threads like these.

Thank you Patterico. Thank you Americans. Thank you America.

Entelechy on June 30, 2007 at 5:05 PM

Rosa, Rosa, Rosa…I’ll do the job YOU don’t do which is do research and distinguish between LEGAL IMMIGRANTS and ILLEGAL INVADERS. Rosa, you can’t possible be this dumb!

SouthernGent on June 30, 2007 at 5:10 PM

calirighty… I concur..110%. Only one disagreement with me, it’s more like 20 million at least.. And I would like to ask anyone if the Irish, the Poles, the Germans etc. had as many TV and radio stations as these people do. And do we really believe they are ever-ever going to take all these stations off the air..

Legions on June 30, 2007 at 5:13 PM

Patterico, was the date 11/13/96?

I think it was earlier in the year.

Patterico on June 30, 2007 at 5:32 PM

I seriously dislike TRAITORS. To date, I have yet to meet a liberal who is not a traitor to their Country, if not in actions, in thought, hopes, and dreams.

NRA4Freedom on June 30, 2007 at 5:51 PM

While we demand McMansions, they share cramped apartments.

Wha? I demand an apartment with more than one room!

ronsfi on June 30, 2007 at 6:00 PM

Right on, Patterico. Great post overall, and an excellent distillation of what this debate is all about – respect for American sovereignty and the rule of law.

Insomniac on June 30, 2007 at 6:30 PM

Legal immigration makes us all proud to be Americans.

Jaibones on June 30, 2007 at 3:40 PM

So true. As someone who’s family has been here for generations, I do feel proud to welcome those folks who came here to be Americans. They are just as American as I am.

The illegals can go pound sand.

infidel4life on June 30, 2007 at 6:45 PM

“My beef is this: Brooks doesn’t bother to distinguish between legal and illegal immigrants….”

That’s why she chose Tancredo’s “clash of civilizations” model for her “argument.” He’s a walking, talking, stawman in the flesh.

JM Hanes on June 30, 2007 at 6:46 PM

It just occurred to me, if these Mexicans are so wonderful, hard working and law abiding why doesn’t Mexico want to keep them there?

If Mexico is so great, why don’t they want to stay there?

TheSitRep on June 30, 2007 at 6:51 PM

As I said Patt. Welcome to the family

mjkazee on June 30, 2007 at 6:55 PM

So if we all go to Rosa Brook’s house. Break in and start living there she will welcome us with open arms and allow us to stay at her house as long as we want. Providing us with free medical, food, and beer?

And if we beat up, kill, and steal from her and her kids and pets that’s ok too right? (Hypothetically of course!)

Hmm… I don’t see her address in her article…

CrazyFool on June 30, 2007 at 6:57 PM

Rosa churns this sort of pap out regularly. She must eat a lot of fiber. Her columns brim with misleading statements, distortions, and out of context presentations of facts. She’s on leave from Georgetown University, where she’s a law professor, so at least she’s just writing and not teaching.

geoff on June 30, 2007 at 7:21 PM

I must be getting old already…I can remember when I was in middle school and the word ‘illegal’ had a stigma to it.

Dark-Star on June 30, 2007 at 7:42 PM

Not far from my house, there are 10 Mexican men living in a 2 bedroom apartment. Does Rosa think that’s noble, or does she think that might change a neighborhood for the worse? I would gladly tell them where Rosa lives (or Diane Feinstein) so they can move into her neighborhood where this living arrangement will be more appreciated.

And no, I’m not a fat, lazy racist. My inlaws are all from Mexico, immigrated legally and are all against ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION. Only in this double-speak world would people simply asking for law and order have to defend themselves from being labled racist.

nyrofan on June 30, 2007 at 7:48 PM

I must be getting old already…I can remember when I was in middle school and the word ‘illegal’ had a stigma to it.

Dark-Star on June 30, 2007 at 7:42 PM

No kidding, now it’s something to be proud of not to mention proclaim your pride by marching and screaming racist European illegals go home!

Speakup on June 30, 2007 at 8:12 PM

[W]hen it comes to illegal immigrants, just getting here takes astounding courage. Illegal immigrants endure astonishing privation and risk — just for the chance to improve their lot

One could apply that reasoning to bank robbery.

nottakingsides on June 30, 2007 at 8:29 PM

Rosa Brooks of the L.A. Times writes in praise of immigrants, comparing them favorably to Americans, whom she labels “fat, decadent and getting dumber all the time.” By contrast, she says: “Immigrants put us to shame. They’re healthier, stronger, thriftier and braver.”

Don’t have the exact quotes, but wasn’t that almost exactly how Hitler viewed Americans versus his new and improved Germans? And Tojo and his warlords? And more recently, Saddam, particularly at the eve of the First Gulf War, with his “Battle-hardened” Iraqi troops against the inexperienced and out-of-shape American soldiers?
Wasn’t Tojo warned by Yamamoto that his concept of lazy and fat Americans was a dangerously poor assumption?
Rosa Brooks seems to have the dismissive anti-American attitude of a typical fascist dictator.

naliaka on June 30, 2007 at 8:33 PM

yep — who do we want? scoff-laws who come here to make a quick buck or people who come here to be successful, productive citizens?

Mephistefales on June 30, 2007 at 8:38 PM

..STOP THE ANCHOR BABIES..is it legally possilbe that when the baby poppers show up at the- e r- to have their anchor pop out, can we legally drive them over to a home with Mid-Wives that can assist and that’s the extent of it. Mid-Wives do not issue gov. documents. Women every day use Mid-Wives for child birth..WE ARE OUT OF OPTIONS AND TIME..

Legions on June 30, 2007 at 10:20 PM

It’s beyond me how so many people can benefit so much from this great country and yet hate it so…how is that possible?

oldernslower on July 1, 2007 at 12:12 AM

A Rosa by any other name still stinks like a rotting bag of offal.

Or is that her brains?

She should be deported for anti-American slander.

Let her live among the thifty, healthy, courageous peasants in some backward, pestilential rathole and see how she likes it.

Self-loathing crapulent clown.

profitsbeard on July 1, 2007 at 12:24 AM

My mother was a legal immigrant, but I have to admit she was fast tracked somewhat for citizenship. Had something to do with being married to a member of the military.

She had two different inflections for the word “home.” One meant England, the other the U.S.A. The inflection for the U.S.A. was used more often than not.

She learned to cook southern style, but remembered her English roots. There’s nothing like sitting down to a Sunday dinner of roast beef and yorkshire pudding with purple hulled peas and fried okra next to it.

God Bless America!!

Tennessee Dave on July 1, 2007 at 12:28 AM

Rosa Brooks of the L.A. Times writes in praise of immigrants, comparing them favorably to Americans, whom she labels “fat, decadent and getting dumber all the time.”

So, Rosa Brooks is an American, is she? I am not sure.

I don’t know if she is fat. Usually liberals do not want to hurt people by calling them ‘fat’ so I can guess she is conservative.

Is she decadent? Since she must be a conservative, she is probably not decadent. Sodom and Gomorrha were the gold standards of decadence, sodomy, free sex, and pagan worship.

Is she getting dumber all the time? That I can answer.

No.

She can’t get any dumber.

She hires illegals? What a great woman. No use hiring a fat lazy dumb American to cut the grass.

Not like she could get her fat, lazy dumb ass up and cut her own grass when she can pay someone else to do it under the table.

Did she even catch on that when her illegal gardener agrees that Americans are fat lazy and dumber then a tick on a butt he is looking dead on at her?

entagor on July 1, 2007 at 12:34 AM

Dear Rosa,

I am an American who is neither fat nor lazy nor live in a McMansion. I have defended this country for 22 years as a member of its military, a job I am sure you are too lazy to do.

Something you may not have factored into your addlebrained analysis on the bravery of illegal aliens is why they come here to work. You admit that they come here to work hard, for little pay and in often bad conditions. This begs the question, how bad is their home country? Mexico must really, really suck. Otherwise, why would someone endure such astonishing privation and risk?

I’ve got an idea, do an article on how much Mexico sucks. And while you’re at it, please ponder these points: Americans are historically welcoming and forgiving; Americans want folks to immigrate and assimilate; if you left a country to come to the US because the former country sucks, maybe you should assimilate; otherwise, you’re importing more than cheap labor; your importing the same corruption that made your former country suck.

And for those of you who will accuse me of being racist, I have no gripe with Mexicans. I’d welcome responsible immigration laws that allowed more Hispanics in. But they’d have to be legal and assimilate. 60+ years of socialism, some of those years rivaling the Reign of Terror, has destroyed their economy and their culture. The cure for Mexicans is not for them to leave their country and bring their socioeconomic woes to the US where they are exploited by unethical businessmen and politicians. The cure is to reform their own country.

cmay on July 1, 2007 at 9:14 AM

The “lazy fat mcmansion living cowardly american” taxpayers cannot support the entire third world population that wants a better life here by theft and deception and law breaking. I cannot just walk into the LA times Miss Rosa and sit down and become a reporter, or the ER and become a dr. There are the channels and education that need to be followed just as in citizenship. When they come LEGALLY into the country they are welcomed by the citizens wholeheartly

kathleen on July 1, 2007 at 11:00 AM

What Rosa is doing is creating an excuse.

Since we’re all these things that society disdains we then deserve what illegal aliens are up to.

We in her opinion should be replaced and be ashamed of ourselves for not appreciating those doing the replacing.

The only thing we should be ashamed of is allowing it to happen.

Speakup on July 1, 2007 at 12:03 PM

Who is gonna be the nannies for your children, or gardeners for your gated communities, or clean up the hotel room you dirtied if EVERY illegal is to be deported? Who’ll pick the fruit? Who? No teenage American I know. Hell, no HOMELESS American I know. Illegals wouldn’t come here if there wasn’t a high demand for their services. Keep deluding yourselves into thinking a Guest Worker program is not necessary…..

The Sinner on July 1, 2007 at 12:23 PM

Who is gonna be the nannies for your children, or gardeners for your gated communities, or clean up the hotel room you dirtied if EVERY illegal is to be deported? Who’ll pick the fruit? Who? No teenage American I know. Hell, no HOMELESS American I know. Illegals wouldn’t come here if there wasn’t a high demand for their services. Keep deluding yourselves into thinking a Guest Worker program is not necessary…..

The Sinner on July 1, 2007 at 12:23 PM

Then save your ire for the upper middle class of the United States – the ones with gated communities, and leave the rest of us out of it. What is the percentage of Americans who live like that? Since when have they comprised the majority?
How about removing the restrictions on American kids to be able to work? How about removing tax penalities for their income? We will be taxed for our teenagers’ work income. At what rate? 38%?
Illegals get their money and run. Americans get whacked. Illegals accept lower than law wages … and how about the fact that by law, Americans require most tradesmen to have certifications that Mexicans typically don’t have – meaning the investment of schooling and training for jobs. Have you not heard the many complaints of builders as to the shoddy work done by many illegals who picked up some basic work competencies in say, masonry, but make mistakes that schooled masons wouldn’t make? The illegals got the job because they were cheaper and initially appeared to have the skills. The trained masons were “too much money” and didn’t get the work. There are a lot of perverse factors here that impact on this, it’s not the simplistically insulting “Americans can’t clean their own toilets” line.

naliaka on July 1, 2007 at 2:19 PM

Who is gonna be the nannies for your children, or gardeners for your gated communities, or clean up the hotel room you dirtied if EVERY illegal is to be deported? Who’ll pick the fruit?

Anybody else here find this strangely racist?

cmay on July 1, 2007 at 4:03 PM

Who is gonna be the nannies for your children, or gardeners for your gated communities, or clean up the hotel room you dirtied if EVERY illegal is to be deported? Who’ll pick the fruit? Who? No teenage American I know. Hell, no HOMELESS American I know. Illegals wouldn’t come here if there wasn’t a high demand for their services. Keep deluding yourselves into thinking a Guest Worker program is not necessary…..

That’s funny. In Ohio, where I was born and raised, we didn’t use nannies. We used babysitters. And none of them were illegals. When our grass got tall we mowed it ourselves. I spent the night in many motels over the years and never saw any non-English speaking maids. When I spent the summer in Utah with relatives…..we picked our own fruit. Their is no demand for illegals to do any work. There is only demand by businesses to pay slum wages. Don’t kid yourself into thinking that illegals are NEEDED for anything. Wanted? Yes. Needed? Never. You need to learn the difference between jobs Americans won’t due and jobs Americans won’t do for $6 an hour.

calirighty on July 1, 2007 at 4:19 PM

Nice spell check.

calirighty on July 1, 2007 at 4:22 PM

When there was no meth, there was no demand for meth. I would like it better is there was no meth.

saiga on July 2, 2007 at 11:55 AM