Breaking: Car on fire drives into Glasgow airport terminal; Update: Gas cylinders in Jeep? Update: Suspect in critical condition; Update: Scottish cops believe incident is linked to car bomb plot

posted at 11:09 am on June 30, 2007 by Allahpundit

Just breaking on CNN. No idea how serious or unserious this is, but supposedly there are no injuries reported. Stand by.

Update: Hmmm.

Police have confirmed a vehicle has driven into the terminal building in Glasgow Airport and is now on fire.

Earlier, the BBC reported witnesses saying a car on fire had tried to drive into the airport through the main doors

The car’s occupants were seen fighting with police inside the terminal, they said…

He said a four-wheel drive, believed to be a Land Rover, tried to drive into the building, but was stopped by barriers…

“A four by four had rammed into the building and caught on fire.

“Police were scuffling with a gentleman.”

Update: If this incident is a coincidence, it’s one hell of a coincidence: “Eyewitnesses have described a Jeep Cherokee being driven at speed towards the building with flames coming out from underneath.”

Update: Conflicting reports now. The AP is claiming that two cars collided outside the airport, one of them catching on fire and maybe careening into the terminal.

Update: Sky seems to think there’s more to it than the AP.

A 4×4 jeep has driven into the terminal building at Glasgow airport and caught fire, police have confirmed.

Witnesses reported hearing a series of loud “bangs” and saw a man on fire…

“Everyone was in a panic and police and security were scuffling with an Asian gentleman.”

“Asian” is a word commonly used in Britain to describe Pakistanis. Needless to say, if it turns out the AP is right and all the other reports and eyewitnesses are exaggerating, this’ll end up as a textbook case of terror hysteria.

Update: The Beeb is now reporting that the Jeep “exploded” and that the two men inside were both “Asian.” It can’t have been much of an explosion, thankfully, if they were still upright and able to fight with police.

Update: CNN is carrying Sky’s coverage and the teaser at the bottom is “Witness: Man seen taking gas cylinder from car before fire.” Update: All right, their web story has it now: “Witnesses said people removed gas cylinders from the jeep before it caught fire.”

Update: From the video, it looks like the Jeep didn’t penetrate the terminate but ended up right outside the doors.

Update: This deserves a post of its own (and I’ll probably give it one later), but the Scotsman has info about yesterday’s car bomb plot that I haven’t seen elsewhere. And there is, potentially, a Scottish connection:

It was reported last night that the first car, a metallic green Mercedes, was stolen in early June and was spotted first in Scotland and then in Birmingham in the two days before the bomb was defused in London.

Police say they are looking for an Iraqi who went on the run from a control order only 11 days before yesterday’s failed bombing attempts. The man, who cannot be identified for legal reasons, is part of a six-strong cell linked to al-Qaeda in Iraq.

He went missing on 18 June in north-west England, and his whereabouts are unknown.

The Scotsman understands that MI5 and counter-terrorism police consider him a suspect in the failed attacks. However, security sources insisted he was “one of many possibilities”.

Here’s a report from the Beeb on June 21 about the Iraqi suspect; he’s the seventh terror suspect to escape while under a control order. If you don’t know what a control order is, see here.

Update: An eyewitness now tells the Beeb that the car didn’t actually explode, but was merely giving off “pops and bangs” which he suspects was burning gasoline. Another eyewitness reports hearing what sounded like an explosion.

Update: Maybe it’s the greatest coincidence in history.

Another witness told the BBC that the vehicle was a Land Rover and that there was a heavy stench of petrol after the car crashed. He said he did not believe the vehicle was a car bomb, saying that the explosion was relatively small.

That could simply be due to the car burning, but the powerful smell of gasoline is what tipped off bystanders to the second car bomb found yesterday in Park Lane.

The AP is still the only news agency to report this as a car crash.

Update: More from Sky. It seems safe to say that this was deliberate.

[T]here are reports the men were trying to fling petrol onto the flames.

Scott Gleeson said he saw the jeep speed up and swerve towards the terminal at an angle to hit the door.

Update: Some of the bystanders claimed to have tackled the Jeep’s passengers after they got out even though at least one of those passengers was on fire. If this was a car accident like the AP claims, why did people in the area react by attacking the “victims”?

Update: The AP appears to be backing off the collision scenario: “Amid fears of further attacks, a burning sport utility vehicle crashed at full speed into the terminal building at Glasgow airport in Scotland, police and witnesses said.”

Update: “Some people who were close by shouted ‘let him burn.’” More: “There was a lot of anger – if the crowds had got hold of this gentleman it would have been the end of him.”

Update: They’re showing CNN of the firefighters on the scene. They’ve got three hoses aimed at the Jeep and it’s still burning. Can’t wait to find out what the accelerant they used was. Meanwhile, here’s a new, odd detail from the Beeb:

Thomas Conroy, a maintenance worker at the airport believes the men deliberately tried to set the car on fire.

“It looked like they had molotov cocktails with them,” he said.

“They sort of burst them round about the flames to make sure the car would go up big style.

“Within minutes it was up and the terminal caught as well.”

Update: British cops now say two men were arrested, not four. The reports all along have described two passengers.

Update: CBS says the incident’s now been “declared” a terrorist attack, whatever that may mean. Gordon Brown’s called a meeting of COBRA, his emergency committee, for this evening.

Update: Here’s the best account of the immediate aftermath that I’ve found:

Another eyewitness, Margaret Hughes, told the BBC that people were screaming and running towards the exit shortly after the explosion.

“As soon as I left the building there was black smoke gushing out where the car had obviously been driven into the airport,” she said.

She said the man who had been on fire appeared very calm as he was led away by police.

“He seemed fairly composed, you could say almost in a state of shock,” she said.

“He was quite a large man … and very heavy set. Very dark hair and dark colouring.”

Scott Leeson was waiting to pick up a colleague when he witnessed the Jeep smash in to the airport building.

He said: “The car came speeding past at about 30mph. It was approaching the building quickly.

“Then the driver swerved the car around so he could ram straight in to the door. He must have been trying to smash straight through.

“Luckily he did not get the car too far in. He just managed to get the nose of the Jeep inside.

“I spoke to an airport official who seemed to think it was not an accident. He was very angry. He said the men in the car got out and started throwing petrol about – that must be how it caught fire.

I think he’s wrong about that last point. Other eyewitnesses supposedly saw fire on the Jeep while it was speeding towards the terminal.

Update: It’s only a shot from the back, but we’ve hit a news lull so it’s all I’ve got: the first photo of one of the suspects is at the Beeb. He doesn’t look burned at all.

Update: Contrary to earlier reports, the Evening Times says there are indeed injuries here. An eyewitness reports seeing people “lying on the road.” The Scotsman’s finally got a story up, too. The Jeep hit the bollards set up outside the terminal door; that’s why it didn’t break through into the building itself. One of the two suspects ran away with his clothes on fire and was tackled by bystanders; the cops descended on the other one and brought him down.

Update: I don’t know what to make of this — it’s probably just precautionary — but British cops have now closed Blackpool airport in northwest England, too. Meanwhile, a little-reported fact of potentially great symbolic significance: “The Queen is in Scotland today for the inauguration of Scotland’s third Parliament, the first to be under Nationalist minority control.”

Update: I can’t find anything to corroborate the report about Blackpool airport, but now Sky is saying that Alexandra hospital in Paisley, where one of the suspects was taken, is being evacuated too. Smooth move of them to publish the name and invite bomb threats.

Update: More eyewitness accounts from the Sun. They really, really wanted to get into that terminal:

“They were obviously trying to get it further inside the airport as the wheels were spinning and smoke was coming from them.

“One of the men, I think it was the driver, brought out a plastic petrol canister and poured it under the car.

“He then set light to it.”

She added: “At that point a policeman came over, the passenger got out of the car and punched him.

Another bystander describes the initial explosion as “enormous” and says the clothes — and skin — of one of the suspects “fell off” as he was running from police.

Update: COBRA is meeting now, for the third time in as many days as Brown has been prime minister. A Beeb reporter states the obvious, that there are “worrying similarities” between the incidents. No kidding: if this is all the work of one cell then MI5 somehow missed a major plot involving at least three people and three separate bombs in two different countries.

Update: Brown has moved the UK terror threat level to “critical,” the equivalent of code red here in the U.S., which means another attack is expected imminently.

Update: Counterterror officials tell the Blotter that if this is all connected, then it probably involves a cell of as many as 20 people. Really? To build and carry out three dud car bombs?

Update: The Brits’ chances of usable intel from this incident just got cut in half: CNN is reporting that the guy with the burns has gone to meet Allah. I guess the eyewitness who said his skin was falling off wasn’t kidding. Update: Wrong. See below.

Update: CNN’s wondering whether these guys might have been copycats. We’ll have to wait for more details, obviously, but assuming the reports of gas cylinders and a smell of gasoline are true, how likely is a copycat scenario here? Two angry would-be jihadis read about a failed bomb yesterday morning — and decide to emulate it, spur of the moment, by inquiring with the local shopkeep about some propane and gasoline? And no one reports it?

Update: The Scottish police are holding a presser now and say that the suspect hasn’t died, but is in critical condition — and that he had a “suspect device” on him that caused the hospital to be evacuated. They don’t know how lethal it was, or if they do, they’re not saying. To no one’s surprise, the cops think this is linked to the London car-bomb plot. “The vehicle contained materials that were flammable,” the spokesman says.


Related Posts:

Breaking on Hot Air

Blowback

Note from Hot Air management: This section is for comments from Hot Air's community of registered readers. Please don't assume that Hot Air management agrees with or otherwise endorses any particular comment just because we let it stand. A reminder: Anyone who fails to comply with our terms of use may lose their posting privilege.

Trackbacks/Pings

Trackback URL

Comments

Comment pages: 1 2

Britain is the worst place in the world to attempt a terrorist attack and fail, the CCTV might not prevent an attack, but if you fail – we will know.

GBCrane on June 30, 2007 at 12:57 PM

An attack on one of Britain’s busiest airports and this is what we get from the British government…

“A Whitehall spokesman said the incident was not being treated as a national security threat.”

Pathetic, just pathetic.

London Boy on June 30, 2007 at 12:58 PM

London Boy –

Good point. And MP Sarwar just announced he was stepping down due to death threats against his family by Pakistani criminals. Who would have thought that Glasgow is a hotbed of jihadist activity?

Has Brown spoken yet? What about the Home Sec.?

Thomas the Wraith on June 30, 2007 at 12:58 PM

Eye witness on Sky said it was a POLICE OFFICER who said “let the ****** burn” …

GBCrane on June 30, 2007 at 12:59 PM

Another witness told the BBC that the vehicle was a Land Rover and that there was a heavy stench of petrol after the car crashed. He said he did not believe the vehicle was a car bomb, saying that the explosion was relatively small.

That could simply be due to the car burning, but the powerful smell of gasoline is what tipped off bystanders to the second car bomb found yesterday in Park Lane.

Early reports described the car bomb found yesterday as a “crude fuel-air bomb.”

Well, guess what? There’s no such thing as a CRUDE fuel-air bomb. It is, to say the very least, extremely difficult to make one of those things work.

Timothy McVeigh was a complete retard, but even he could figure out how to make a bomb. There are clearly lots of people involved in these “plots”, but they literally do not seem to have any idea whatsoever what they are doing.

I’m the last person to have a high opinion of terrorists’ intelligent, but these people can’t be that stupid. It’s just not possible.

logis on June 30, 2007 at 1:01 PM

I read that the Queen officially opened the Scottish Parliament earlier today in Edinburgh. And this is the first attack in Scotland. Coincidence?

Is this a message to Scotland? To the SNP in particular?

Thomas the Wraith on June 30, 2007 at 1:02 PM

This is ridiculous. So two “asians” drive their flaming vehicle of doom into an airport and then are forced to defend themselves. Like this never happened to any of us…

JWS on June 30, 2007 at 1:02 PM

Update: “Some people who were close by shouted ‘let him burn.’” More: “There was a lot of anger – if the crowds had got hold of this gentleman it would have been the end of him.”

Good. It’s nice to see that average Europeans are getting fed up with this crap. It’s almost a shame they didn’t get hold of him; the end result would’ve sent a nice message to others planning things like this.

sheik_rattle_n_roll on June 30, 2007 at 1:03 PM

I hope the video of him burning, him locked up and force-fed the Bible is posted on YouTube to show these Jihadists what will happen when they try … we are loosing the propoganda war.

GBCrane on June 30, 2007 at 1:04 PM

Who would have thought that Glasgow is a hotbed of jihadist activity?
Thomas the Wraith on June 30, 2007 at 12:58 PM

They. are. everywhere. Last time I was in Dublin, I witnessed a group of “Asians” urinating on the doors of St. Patrick’s Cathedral and filming themselves. They thought it was quite hilarious. The nearby Garda looked the other way.

IrishEi on June 30, 2007 at 1:04 PM

We should take the fight to their homes, I know the saying an “Englishman’s home is his castle”, luckily the Jihadists are not English or Scotish … I have no problem taking the fight to their house, their Mosque, their training camps … bomb them all.

GBCrane on June 30, 2007 at 12:25 PM

I completely agree, I’ve been saying the same for years, even pre 9-11! Our enemy has absolutely no respect for human life and they have only one goal and that is a world dominated under their backwards draconian sharia ideology and will not stop until we (the free western nations) capitulate or die!

It is way past the time to take the gloves off, we need to hit them hard, often, and wherever they are, and this includes mosques and civilian areas. This may seem heartless and not PC to many, but war is not PC and if we continue to fight this war in a PC manner when our enemy doesn’t then we will not be victorius.

I am not saying we stoop to their barbaric suicide bombings and kill innocent non-combatants, that’s wrong, but we need to stop tying our hands behind our backs in this war by not allowing their tactic of hiding within civilian populations (cowardly behind women and children) to stop us from taking them out.

It is our enemies choice and tactic to carry out their operations within civilian populations for two reasons; first to keep us from hitting their areas of operation, and secondly if we do hit them they will use “innocent civilian” casualties as propaganda against us.

The above tactic is only effective and helpful to our enemy if we allow it to be, we must remind ourselves and those that would decry us hitting their areas of operation (that result in civilian casulties) the responsibility for civilian casulties lies with our enemy and not us.

Adopting this as our new doctrine and tactic will strengthen us and weaken our enemy as our enemy will no longer feel secure (even within civilian populations) and will be to pre-occupied with trying to survive instead of planning and carrying out attacks because they will no longer have a safe haven and will never know when they will be hit!

We need to get the politicos to stop injecting politics into this war and let the military commanders due whatever is needed to be done to be victorious, take the gloves off now and the hell with being PC!

Liberty or Death on June 30, 2007 at 1:05 PM

Well, what if the guy to out to be Amish?
Who be red-faced then? It’ll be horse and buggy lock down.

TheSitRep on June 30, 2007 at 11:34 AM

The Amishists usual M.O. is the drive-by shunning.

Nosferightu on June 30, 2007 at 1:07 PM

Who would have thought that Glasgow is a hotbed of jihadist activity?
Thomas the Wraith on June 30, 2007 at 12:58 PM

That’s George Galloway territory. Can’t wait to see what he has to say about this.

Nosferightu on June 30, 2007 at 1:08 PM

The Religion of Pieces can not possibly be responsible, can they?

Sailor7 on June 30, 2007 at 1:09 PM

Did anyone else notice the bumper stickers on the jeep? One said “terrorism is just this bumper sticker” and the other said ” My other car is da bomb”.

Guardian on June 30, 2007 at 1:12 PM

IrishEi –

I witnessed a group of “Asians” urinating on the doors of St. Patrick’s Cathedral and filming themselves. They thought it was quite hilarious.

Sweet heaven! And no one did anything? I thought the Irish were Catholic. Don’t they have any balls? If a group of men were pissing on the cathedral in Kansas City they would quickly get their as$es kicked. And badly. They could be interviewed in the hospital, if they could still move their jaws.

What happened to the men of Britain and Ireland? Did they all have spine removal surgery? Has the whole culture been emasculated? Fight back for heaven’s sake. Stand up for yourselves. This is just disgraceful.

Thomas the Wraith on June 30, 2007 at 1:12 PM

A quote from the poet and essayist Charles Peguy.

It is bad manners to expect victory when you don’t feel like fighting.

Thomas the Wraith on June 30, 2007 at 1:16 PM

Great coverage Allah, thanks.

I can imagine Olby and L. Johnson huddled under a desk, hugging each other whispering “everything’s ok, everything’s ok…”. And in the background, a loud speaker announces “Clean up in Studio O”

Zorro on June 30, 2007 at 1:16 PM

Eurocracy happened … the idea we will be tolerant to those who are intolerant … I’ll be tolerant to anybody who is tolerant to me, anybody else should get a bullet between the eyes.

GBCrane on June 30, 2007 at 1:17 PM

Our friend’s 8 year old had real solution to these attacks … he asked, ” where are our bad guys ???”.

aniladesai on June 30, 2007 at 1:18 PM

The good news is that these terrorists in the West tend to seem to be amateurs, not like the professionals we see in Iraq. Let’s hope it stays that way.

gmoonster on June 30, 2007 at 1:22 PM

At what point do we start shutting down mosques and deporting these idiots – just in time or after it’s too late?

JWS on June 30, 2007 at 1:24 PM

Larry Johnson puts everything into perspective.

The perspective of a moron. Pay particular attention to how he responds to his critics.

A powerful example of our intelligence community.

JackStraw on June 30, 2007 at 1:25 PM

Before we deal with the muslim problem in our countries we have to dismantle the choke-hold of political correctness. PC has seeped into every level of public life ……for instance, three years ago the radical islamists led by Abu Mamza who “prayed” at the Finsbury Park mosque in North London were forced out by “moderate” muslims. Abu Hamza then decided he was going to hold Friday prayers in the street. So, every Friday Hamza and a hundred or so of his misbegotten islamofascists would block a public street outside the mosque and chant “Allah akbar.” And what did the local police do about these scumbags shutting down a public road ? They did jackshit, they actually helped turn cars away so that Hamza and his lackeys could scream anti-Western insults to their drones without interruption. These are the same police who don’t mind roughing you up if three or four of you are blocking the sidewalk outside a pub but when it came to muslims breaking our laws they suddenly became very accomodating.

London Boy on June 30, 2007 at 1:25 PM

I wonder who will provide us with our dose of “this is Bush trying to disrupt my holidays!”?

GBCrane on June 30, 2007 at 1:26 PM

Eurocracy happened … the idea we will be tolerant to those who are intolerant … I’ll be tolerant to anybody who is tolerant to me, anybody else should get a bullet between the eyes.

GBCrane on June 30, 2007 at 1:17 PM

maybe going a little overboard?

zane on June 30, 2007 at 1:26 PM

Our friend’s 8 year old had real solution to these attacks … he asked, ” where are our bad guys ???”.

We’re here. Just waiting for the jihadis and practicing on deer and feral hogs.

RedWinged Blackbird on June 30, 2007 at 1:28 PM

Thomas the Wraith on June 30, 2007 at 1:12 PM

I can only speak for the handful of family and friends I have in Ireland, No. Ireland and Scotland; but of all, I must say that the Scots are the best hope for civilization in those parts.

The economic boom Ireland has enyoyed this last decade has resulted in a workforce of 14% foreign nationals. This is up from just 7% four years ago, and less than 1% fifteen years ago. The country has changed dramatically. You would be hard pressed to find an Irish bartender at any of the tourist-trap pubs in Dublin. Happily, local pubs in the villages are still staffed by full-blooded Irishmen and maintain their traditional color; however, it’s best not to let them know you’re American—try to come off as Canadian.

As a kid, I remember seeing pictures of the Pope and JFK in every pub and over everyone’s fireplace. Last trip, we were scolded by an airport employee who, while rummaging through our luggage, told us that it was quite upsetting that U.S. planes were refueling at Shannon—”We’re supposed to be neutral, you know!” Also had a gent we were singing with slam his pint on the table when he realized we were Americans and declare, “I’d rather sing with the feckin’ Russians!”

They all blame the terror on the U.S. involvement in the Middle East. My Scottish friends blame Bush, not Americans in general, and unlike the others, do not excuse the jihadis at all.

IrishEi on June 30, 2007 at 1:32 PM

Before we deal with the muslim problem in our countries we have to dismantle the choke-hold of political correctness.
London Boy on June 30, 2007 at 1:25 PM

EXACTLY.

Sorry for not responding to you last night on the other thread. To be honest, I was so saddened by your post that I couldn’t figure out what to say. As horrible as it sounds, I think we can only sit and wait for an event so horrendous that it will finally break the choke-hold. As if 9/11 weren’t horrendous enough…

IrishEi on June 30, 2007 at 1:37 PM

Islam, the religion of peace. Wait for it.. Wait for it… There it is, tonights Network news!

Static on June 30, 2007 at 1:42 PM

Who says these turds are done yet? The weekend is just getting started and the 4th is coming up.

LondonBoy, you hit the nail on the head.

IrishEi, the event you speak of will only work to wake some people up for a short time. That is the real tragedy.

Regarding the RoW hating the US and blaming us for everything, that is quite convenient for Islamic nuts, no? Nice to see the worldwide focus and concern is where it should be.

PBoilermaker on June 30, 2007 at 1:46 PM

Brown’s called a meeting of COBRA, huh? I would have preferred he allocated this job to GI Joe, but maybe Cobra Commander and his boys can take care of it.

brak on June 30, 2007 at 1:47 PM

“As horrible as it sounds, I think we can only sit and wait for an event so horrendous that it will finally break the choke-hold. As if 9/11 weren’t horrendous enough…”

I fear you may be right, IrishEi. Although blogs like this are helping to wake people up to the reality of the Global Jihad we really need the MSM to start doing their job and tell the general public exactly how great the threat is from
Islamofascism. But until the liberals at CNN, NYT, WaPo, AP, al-BBC etc, etc stop whitewashing islam and pretending that it isn’t our mortal enemy then the knowledge our people need to prepare for the struggle ahead is sadly lacking.
Our education systems need to be shaken-up too. Instead of pushing the lie that “all cultures are equal” and that the West is uniquely bad in world history, our children should be taught the truth about Islam. Our kids should know that muslims started the African slave trade, that as many black Africans were taken to the Middle East as were taken to the Americas. They should learn that muslims killed over 50 Million hindus & Buddhists in their attempt to conquer India. They should learn that it was only by grim determination and one battle at the Gates of Vienna in 1683 that muslims were stopped from conquering the whole of Europe .
Until all this happens we have to accept that our society is fighting evil while wearing a blindford and with one hand tied behind it’s back.

London Boy on June 30, 2007 at 1:56 PM

So ticked since yesterday when the reports of the London car bombs broke and how ‘same-o’ the U.S. news shows handled it. We are a sick bunch of people here. As AllahP stated in the Olby thread it is damned if you do damned if you don’t, for the lefties. The last thing I want is another attack, here or anywhere, but I fail to see how the American public is every going to get their blinders off without that happening. Sad, sad times people. We can’t even fight back because of PC. PC…..that is all it is…..some kind of ‘Twilight Zone’ disease. Common sense has been erased from the evolutionary tree.

Call me depressed………

Limerick on June 30, 2007 at 2:04 PM

As AllahP stated in the Olby thread it is damned if you do damned if you don’t, for the lefties. The last thing I want is another attack, here or anywhere, but I fail to see how the American public is every going to get their blinders off without that happening.

Depends how you define the American publc. Don’t forget, fully 30% of Americans think we don’t know the truth behind 9/11. Why would another attack make them become rational to the cause of terrorism?

You should read the comments going on over at DU about these attempted attacks. They are either laughing at their “ineptness” in not being to kill more of us (the Larry Johnson high road), blame Bush (I kid you not) and question the timing (Don’t you see…there’s a new gov’t in GB and this fake attack by BushCo is designed to give them a reason to keep power forevah!!).

Nope, we need to come to grips with the fact that there is and will be a sizeable percentage of the public who will never take this threat seriously no matter what happens.

JackStraw on June 30, 2007 at 2:11 PM

And of course, whatever we do, we can’t seal off the borders until we enact comprehensive immigration reform!

/Will be the death of us all

gmoonster on June 30, 2007 at 2:12 PM

Nope, we need to come to grips with the fact that there is and will be a sizeable percentage of the public who will never take this threat seriously no matter what happens.

I agree and this fact will always baffle me.

PBoilermaker on June 30, 2007 at 2:21 PM

Just a typical, drive the Land Rover into the airport terminal, throw petrol about and set yourself on fire weekend in Scotland. Aye.

Those whimsical Scots. Someone probably had a yearning for a meat pie at the airport takeaway.

Up yer kilt.

Hening on June 30, 2007 at 2:31 PM

The airport was full of children because school was funushed yersterday.
The Koranimal taken to the hospital had a vest on.
I can think of no lower forms of protoplasm than these pigs.

bbz123 on June 30, 2007 at 2:45 PM

“I can think of no lower forms of protoplasm than these pigs.”

Hey, why start insulting pigs ?

London Boy on June 30, 2007 at 3:01 PM

Reading thru the thread….what the hell is wrong with some of you people? Sure we have social differences and political differences with the English. Some are big, most aren’t……but reading thru this…….what about the citizens who helped subdue the suspects, or the coppers jumping into the fray? What about the cops yesterday grabbing the cell phones, and the EMTs who alerted police?
What about all those Englishmen searching for the suspects and whatever bombs may still be out there?

I got news for you….King George is dead, get over it.

Yes I feel the English ‘system’ is too PC and too socialist…but that doesn’t make them any less my brothers.
Sanctimonius blowhards……no wonder the term ‘ugly American’ is so popular. You act like their social net is reason to throw them to the dogs. Makes me frikkin sick.

Limerick on June 30, 2007 at 3:06 PM

We can’t even fight back because of PC. PC…..that is all it is…..some kind of ‘Twilight Zone’ disease. Common sense has been erased from the evolutionary tree.

Well put.

Speakup on June 30, 2007 at 3:07 PM

Before we deal with the muslim problem in our countries we have to dismantle the choke-hold of political correctness. PC has seeped into every level of public life…
London Boy on June 30, 2007 at 1:25 PM

If I’ve said it once I’ve said it a million times, war is not PC! It never has been and never will be, but as long as the politicos (liberal left ostriches) continue to meddle in this war and divide our nation we will not succeed in defeating our enemy, a brutal enemy that has declared war on free western nations, has vowed to destroy us if we do not convert to their draconian sharia ideology! We are at war with Islamo fascists, they are a real enemy and a dire threat the liberal left ostriches have yet to acknowledge even exists!

I don’t care if it’s PC or not, we should be rounding up any and all Muslims that denounce our government, our culture, and preach hate in any way and ship them back to their Middle East sand box…NOW!!

I too fear it will take something more devastating than 9-11 to wake up the liberal left ostriches, while I hope it doesn’t take a worse event to get them to pull their heads out of their a$$es if it comes to pass one can only hope something positive will come from it, like getting them to finally face the reality of what this conflict is really about or it may scare them more than they already are and they’ll just cower in a corner, shut the hell up and stop dividing our nation at a time when we need to be united and allow the military to do what needs to be done, the hell with PC!

For all our sakes I truly am praying it won’t take a mushroom cloud for them to finally face reality…

Liberty or Death on June 30, 2007 at 3:07 PM

From the HuffPo:

lisakaz:
I guess no one wants to consider that Olbermann might be correct. I’m suspicious on the links given the lack of suicide attackers and the problems with the bombs. And I’m not even sure how the airport guy fits. Way too sketchy right now.

WisCon on June 30, 2007 at 3:12 PM

I tried to set some brush on fire when a kid and poured a little too much gasoline on it. It wasn’t an explosion but a huge swoosh and a mushroom like upward fire and I could see where someone would describe that as an explosion. Lost some eyebrow hairs

Drtuddle on June 30, 2007 at 3:16 PM

Have the Brits been at “critical” before?

bnelson44 on June 30, 2007 at 3:28 PM

A sidestory you might want to watch, LGF had a post up at the end of last night on the reaction of the UK Muslim Public Affairs Council’s reaction to the events yesterday.

Dusty on June 30, 2007 at 3:37 PM

Fuel Air Bombs are devastating

Buzzy on June 30, 2007 at 3:46 PM

Aw Cr*p here’s the linky http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9xCgNdZPKk

Buzzy on June 30, 2007 at 3:47 PM

I tried to set some brush on fire when a kid and poured a little too much gasoline on it. It wasn’t an explosion but a huge swoosh and a mushroom like upward fire and I could see where someone would describe that as an explosion. Lost some eyebrow hairs

Drtuddle on June 30, 2007 at 3:16 PM

Perfect example of a “deflagration” as opposed to a “detonation” or as is most commonly referred to, an explosion. I did the same thing as a kid, only I used powder taken from fire crackers. I broke open about 12 fire crackers placing the powder in a pile and ignited it, it burned in a quick flash but did not detonate (explode) as the powder was no longer confined within the tightly wrapped paper. I too lost eyebrows, eyelashes, and the better part of my bangs. Needless to say I had lots of splaining to do to my parents!

Here’s a post I placed on the thread “Car Bomb Found in London/A Crude Fuel-air Bomb” regarding this very subject and what I believe are three plausible reasons why the London bombs failed to work:

I’ve been in the Environmental, Health and Safety field for 20 years with my main background being in hazardous materials management. I am by no means saying I’m an expert in explosive devices, however, volatile flammable liquids and gases have what is called a UEL (Upper Explosive Limit) and a LEL (Lower Explosive Limit). Without going into too much technical jargon, in order for a volatile flammable liquid (gasoline, etc) to ignite the liquid must give off sufficient ignitable vapor along with a sufficient amount of oxygen that falls between the substances LEL and UEL. If the mixture of ignitable vapor/oxygen is too rich it falls into the UEL and will not ignite, if it is too lean it falls into the LEL and will not ignite.

However, if the ignitable vapor of the flammable substance in question has just the right mixture of ignitable vapor and oxygen and falls between the LEL and UEL it will ignite, and if the material being ignited is confined (like in a cylinder) it will detonate. This is key, a deflagration is the unconfined burning of a substance, but a detonation is the result of a confined substance igniting and releasing all of its energy at once instead of a slow burn (deflagration).

IMHO with the information being presented by eyewitnesses as to the “smoke” (which was more than likely gasoline vapors) tells me the fuel/oxygen mixture was UEL (too rich) while the perp was driving the vehicle to its intended target and did not detonate when the ignition source (cell phone) was called the first time, then when the driver exited the vehicle and opened all the doors the fuel oxygen mixture became LEL (too lean) and again did not explode when the ignition source (cell phone) was called a second time.

Another possibility is the ignition source was not wired properly and did not provide sufficient “spark” to ignite the device. Again, just MHO, but these three potential scenarios seem to be the most logical reason why the device did not explode, but had it exploded it would have been a devastating explosion and not just a fireball (deflagration) because of the confined propane in the cylinders.

Liberty or Death on June 30, 2007 at 2:17 PM

Liberty or Death on June 30, 2007 at 3:48 PM

Update: Counterterror officials tell the Blotter that if this is all connected, then it probably involves a cell of as many as 20 people. Really? To build and carry out three dud car bombs?

Not quite sure what you mean here, AP, but I’m don’t like the trial and error factor we are looking at here wrt having 20 people involved in planning these things and knowing they didn’t get the setup right yesterday and today.

If there are many involved, they will work to get subsequent ones right, either by continued trial and error or soliciting better expertise. As it is, they are receiving a lot of failure analysis via the MSM from some government and independent experts.

Once a few have the setup right, it will be a problem from then on out.

Dusty on June 30, 2007 at 4:06 PM

I got news for you….King George is dead, get over it.

Yes I feel the English ’system’ is too PC and too socialist…but that doesn’t make them any less my brothers.
Sanctimonius blowhards……no wonder the term ‘ugly American’ is so popular. You act like their social net is reason to throw them to the dogs. Makes me frikkin sick.

Limerick on June 30, 2007 at 3:06 PM

Yes, unfortunately, there is A Lotta Truth in what you say

When the ‘youths’ were burning the suburbs of Paris, the comments here wern’t as bad as some sites, but Les Frogs got even less sympathy and a lotta ‘they asked for it /they deserve it’ remarks

The British have their Pelosis and Clintons and Reids, and the dhimmi-moonbats who follow them; that sad fact does not make the people of Britian less deserving of our support and our understanding

…..and I especially like the dude who punched out the jihadi while the coppers were failing with pepper spray

Janos Hunyadi on June 30, 2007 at 4:06 PM

Ummm Koskids are blaming bush

Gwillie on June 30, 2007 at 4:07 PM

ABC News is reporting that US heavy weapons teams are being sent into US airports

ABC News

William Amos on June 30, 2007 at 4:11 PM

Try to avoid large gatherings at stadiums and whatnot on July 4th.

Just sayin’…

SilverStar830 on June 30, 2007 at 4:12 PM

He died.One less jihadi to muck up the court system and then get released.

bbz123 on June 30, 2007 at 4:14 PM

The thing I find interesting is that people are arguing that we can’t necessarily indict Islamic terror for anything or be worried about this type of terror unless all of the recent events are proven to be Islam-based. Why do we seem to need -further- validation of a very real threat that is already extant??

PBoilermaker on June 30, 2007 at 4:17 PM

Two angry would-be jihadis read about a failed bomb yesterday morning — and decide to emulate it, spur of the moment, by inquiring with the local shopkeep about some propane and gasoline? And no one reports it?

Many gas stations in the US are run by middle eastern people, is that true in the UK as well?

bnelson44 on June 30, 2007 at 4:17 PM

Ummm Koskids are blaming bush…

But wait, Blair is gone. Shouldn’t Britian be safe just like the USA will be when Bush is gone? Oh, that’s right….a jihad doesn’t end when one leader leaves and another comes in. Whoops, my bad.

reppac122 on June 30, 2007 at 4:23 PM

Many gas stations in the US are run by middle eastern people, is that true in the UK as well?

bnelson44 on June 30, 2007 at 4:17 PM

Be careful, bnelson: Those who want to damage this blog also read and cherrypick its comments

Janos Hunyadi on June 30, 2007 at 4:26 PM

Be careful, bnelson: Those who want to damage this blog also read and cherrypick its comments

Janos is right. Besides, ethnicity of gas station owners has absolutely nothing to do with any of this.

Fault the -perpetrators- for what they do.

PBoilermaker on June 30, 2007 at 4:31 PM

[Limerick on June 30, 2007 at 3:06 PM]

Sure would like to know what touched you off, Limerick. I don’t see much of what you assert here in this thread at all. I see disdain directed at the rageboys for their ineptness, supportive tough talk for the Brits actions, and some mocking of the choice of terms in the mostly Brit MSM reports.

I didn’t see any I would charcterize as the British deserve this though a few might have noted the government’s PC approach doesn’t help and that’s the same as what is said here about efforts of our government, which by your logic suggests we Americans at this site hate Americans.

I do appreciate your advice, though, that we should PC up so people won’t think we are Ugly Americans.

Dusty on June 30, 2007 at 4:44 PM

Dusty on June 30, 2007 at 4:44 PM

Yeah I guess you are right Dusty…….thank goodness Englishmen lump all Americans together with Pelosi, Rangle, Murtha, and Olby. We are all the same.

Limerick on June 30, 2007 at 5:08 PM

Liberty or Death

Agree for the most part, but I think the ‘smoke’ was more likely atomized liquid propane. As normally supplied, propane is a liquified gas with an equilibrium vapor pressure of 108 PSIG. The valve on a propane tank is (normally) designed to draw from the vapor phase above the liquid. However, when the tank is inverted or tipped, it will discharge liquid propane which expands very rapidly, creating a cloud effect. My guess is that the jihadi opened the valve on one of the propane tanks, figuring to fill the car with propane vapor. His erratic driving caused the tank to tip over and discharge liquid. This scenario would have put the propane concentration above the UEL in a few seconds.

In any case, relying on a relatively low-energy spark to ignite an unknown fuel/air mixture is iffy, even when the fuel is within the explosive limits. I’ve done studies with both propane and butane, and they’re more difficult to ignite than you might think. A better method would be to provide an intermediate device containing a known fuel/air mixture which has been tested with the spark generator.

RedWinged Blackbird on June 30, 2007 at 5:13 PM

When are the people of the UK going to remove their heads from the sand and start fighting back? I hope they realize the fact that they have pandered and kow-towed to every Muslim need, and not required assimilation and let them establish their own little Muslim communities breeding hate for their own country, is largely why this is happening and why it will only get much, much worse if nothing changes.

Patriot33 on June 30, 2007 at 5:14 PM

Update: Counterterror officials tell the Blotter that if this is all connected, then it probably involves a cell of as many as 20 people. Really? To build and carry out three dud car bombs?

I heard they were rigged for remote detonation via cell phone. If that’s the case, isn’t it possible they were simply waiting to closing time, when everybody would be in the streets to call the cell number. I think it’s possible they just happen to be discovered before zero hour.

TheBigOldDog on June 30, 2007 at 5:21 PM

and that he had a “suspect device” on him that caused the hospital to be evacuated.

…a Koran maybe?

These car bombers in England are the gang-who-couldn’t-shoot (blow themselves up)-straight. I’m glad they’re so stupid but these Muslims won’t always be so.

Patriot33 on June 30, 2007 at 5:14 PM

All of us here know there’s a war going on. When will the Dhemocrats and the lib media machine get it?

Mojave Mark on June 30, 2007 at 5:33 PM

The libs pet ‘fool’ Hinckley………why he was just a fool. Good thing he didn’t cause any damage huh? Maybe Olby should have him on to drive home his point.

Limerick on June 30, 2007 at 5:36 PM

I’m closing this thread. Please comment in the new thread that’s been opened.

Allahpundit on June 30, 2007 at 5:46 PM

Comment pages: 1 2