Report: Car bomb found in London; Update: A crude fuel-air bomb?

posted at 12:40 pm on June 29, 2007 by Allahpundit

Just waking up to this. “An eyewitness said a man had crashed the vehicle into bins near a nightclub and then ran off.” Gasoline, gas canisters, and that old favorite — nails — were found in the car, along with “a potentially explosive device.” Presumably it’s meant as some sort of opening salvo at Gordon Brown, although a nightclub seems an odd choice of targets for that.

Stand by for lots and lots of updates, no doubt.

Update: “These things happen.”

Update: The Beeb has been told that “international elements” are suspected. And no wonder:

This type of car bombing plot is typical of other British Jihadist car bomb plots in the past, including both the July 2005 bomb plots, and the Dhiren Barot Jihadist group bomb plots.

— In July 2005, a number of bombs and components, some packed with nails to cause death and maximum injury, were recovered from a car parked by the July 7 bombers at Luton station.

— British Jihadist Dhiren Barot pleaded guilty to plotting a series of attacks, including detailed plans to explode limousines packed with gas cylinders, explosives and nails after leaving them in underground London parking garages or hotels.

The target isn’t so strange either, according to the Daily Mail: a nightclub in Southwark was on the hit list of the AQ jihadis convicted in Britain earlier this year. The club in this case, the Tiger Tiger, apparently has a capacity of 1,700 people. And last night was ladies’ night.

There are photos at that last link; the manhunt for the driver is on, aided no doubt by Britain’s eight trillion security cameras. Might be a good time to revisit this post from December.

Update: The Times of London quotes nightclub staffers as saying there were about 650 people there last night. Chances are good that they’ve got the suspect on tape: “Mr Neil added that the club’s cameras are ‘absolutely everwhere’ around the club. ‘If you look at where it is, the camera should pick him up getting out of the car. It shouldn’t be long before they start putting out images.’” They might also be able to trace the car’s route using other cameras.

Update: They’re checking around London for other devices, of course, coordinated attacks being a favorite of AQ. Here’s something odd:

The incident, near Piccadilly, began when an ambulance was called to a nightclub at around 1am to treat a person who had fallen ill. The ambulance crew noticed a Mercedes parked outside the club, and saw the vehicle appeared to have smoke inside it…

Earlier, witnesses said they saw the light metallic green saloon car being driven erratically. It then crashed into bins before the driver ran away.

No one thought to call the cops originally, after the car crashed into the bins and the driver took off? Also, why didn’t the driver ram the car into the building itself? That fact, plus the fact that the bomb itself looks to have been the work of “keen amateurs” makes me think it’s probably a homegrown guy or group “inspired” by terrorist ideology and getting pointers off the Internet:

Patio gas cylinders found by police in the light green Mercedes would have been an unlikely weapon for experienced terrorists unless they wanted to create a fireball for the cameras, Sidney Alford, founder of explosives company Alford Technologies, told Guardian Unlimited.

As a readily available combustible material, the propane gas held in such cylinders might be considered by someone unable to source high explosives…

A witness reported nails were lying on the floor of the car, which Mr Alford said was another indication the bomb makers were inexperienced.

“Nails could be considered as an additional way of extending the potential damage and lethal range of the device but putting them on the floor is an incompetent way of building a bomb. They would go straight into the ground,” he said.

Update: The Independent has excellent background on the “gas limo” plot mentioned above that might have inspired this attack. It was masterminded by now-jailed AQ plotter Dhiren Barot, who you might remember for his creepy surveillance video of the World Trade Center. According to the Independent, the gasoline plot was Barot’s attempt to emulate the Madrid bombings. Details:

Barot detailed his proposals in a document entitled “Rough Presentation For Gas Limos Projects”, which was found by police…

He wrote: “Gas can, within certain perimeters, be employed to cause large scale damage to structures since many of them, gas types, are by nature, extremely flammable as well as explosive.”

The chilling document said many different types of gases available on the market were considered, although the “final choice” was narrowed down to propane, butane, acetylene and oxygen.

He concluded that gas explosions from cylinders, if carefully orchestrated, could be as powerful as TNT…

In a passage on petrol, he pointed out that as well as being legally available at forecourts, petrol cans could be filled with sharp metal nails during an attack to maximise damage.

Needless to say, don’t be surprised if that document turns out to have been the “inspiration” for today’s amateur.

Update: “If reports that it contained home-made explosive are correct, it would most likely be a hydrogen peroxide mixture as used in the July 7 atrocities, although a small ‘fertiliser bomb’ made of ammonium nitrate cannot be ruled out.”

Update: A security source claims it’s “entirely possible” that the suspect had links to jihadis in Iraq or elsewhere, but if this really was an international plot timed to send the new prime minister a message, it surely would have been more effective than this. Multiple bombers, professional explosives, etc. The explosive here appears to have been 60 liters of gasoline sitting on the back seat. You can catch a glimpse of it, or of something, in this screencap at the Sun.

Curious, or perhaps not so curious, detail: despite the fact that there’s a massive manhunt on for the suspect and eyewitnesses saw him running from the car, no description of him has been published thus far as far as I can tell.

Update: Hmmm. Sky News is reporting that Park Lane has been closed now due to another suspicious vehicle, but it may simply be out of an abundance of caution. One of the articles I read earlier said they’d done the same thing with another car earlier but it appears to have been a false alarm. Fox is saying now that cops have stopped a double decker bus.

Update: MSNBC had to be dragged to this story kicking and screaming. Surprise.

Update: It’s 10:30 and Fox is reporting that Hyde Park is being evacuated. All of these alarms are probably false, of course, but they’re obviously taking the threat of a coordinated attack extremely seriously.

Update: Sky is reporting by way of Fox that the suspicious vehicle in Park Lane that’s caused the evacuation of Hyde Park is a double-decker bus. The suspect, or *a* suspect, must be on board and they naturally figure he may be wired. Recall that of the four bombs detonated on 7/7/05, the last was aboard a double-decker. Update: Wait, no, hold the phone. According to the Telegraph, the vehicle in Park Lane is a car. The double-decker is a separate lead. According to Sky, it’s the Park Lane car that’s linked to the nightclub bomb. Not sure where the bus figures into this.

Update: I’m officially confused. The would-be bomber drove “erratically” down the street, smashed into some garbage bins, got out and ran away — because he planned to detonate the bomb by cell phone? That’s what Sky is reporting but it makes zero sense. If you’re going to detonate by remote, you’d want to be as unobtrusive as possible so as not to alarm people and have them flee the area or call the bomb squad. Was this guy drunk during the attack? Meanwhile, it’s still not clear if there were any explosives in the car or just the gas tanks. Biiig difference in terms of blast power.

Update: The Kossacks are already busy proving their left-wing terror-fighting superpowers by scoffing at the threat. As for this:

Hours before London explosives technicians dismantled a large car bomb in the heart of the British capital’s tourist-rich theater district, a message appeared on one of the most widely used jihadist Internet forums, saying: “Today I say: Rejoice, by Allah, London shall be bombed.”

Don’t they leave messages like that every day?

Update: Sky has details up now of why they thought it was a cell-phone bomb. Did a hero cop save the day?

Sky News sources say one of the first police officers on the scene of the London West End car bomb may have saved dozens of lives by diffusing the explosives before the bomb squad arrived.

It is believed the quick-thinking cop recognised that the car was wired to blow up, jumped in and disconnected the trigger device, thought to be a mobile phone.

This backs up an eye-witness account of a police officer briefly entering the metallic green Mercedes before running for cover.

Still makes no sense. The driver wouldn’t have careened down the street if this was a cell-phone bomb and he surely wouldn’t have left the cell phone in his haste to get away and detonate it if it was.

Update: The plot thickens. According to Sky, the cops are now looking at a third suspicious vehicle, this one on Fleet Street. A police presser’s set to start at any minute.

Update: Time says that British officials have yet to confirm the story about the car swerving down the street into the trash and the driver running away. It must be apocryphal. The cell-phone thing and the fact that no description of the suspect has been released makes no sense otherwise. Time also confirms that the bomb appears to have been amateurish, which makes the Daily Mail’s claim of an Al Qaeda cell at work that much more dubious.

Update: Danger Room thinks this might (note: might) have been a crude attempt at a very sophisticated weapon — a fuel-air bomb that packs enormous explosive power due to the unusually length of the blast. Maybe this is the equivalent of Iraqo jihadis using chlorine bombs to crudely replicate chemical weapons.

Update: ABC describes the scene as the bomb squad arrived:

Calling the device a “significant bomb,” bomb technicians first approached the car with a robot. The smoke inside the car was so thick that the robot’s camera could not record anything, sources said.

A bomb technician in a heavy kevlar suit approached the car and, sources say, was surprised to find a carefully constructed bomb. The bomb contained 125 liters of gasoline in containers stuffed onto the car’s right front seat and in its trunk. Also in the car were cylinders of propane and butane.

At great personal risk, sources say, the bomb technician then defused the bomb by hand.

According to U.S. security officials briefed on the matter a cell phone was to be used as a detonator.

The only way all of these details make sense to me is if the bomber parked the car casually, left the area, and tried to detonate it — but ended up with a fizzle. That would explain the smoke coming from the car that first alerted bystanders that something was up. It was a misfire. Otherwise you have to believe that the bomber walked away from the car intending to detonate it hours afterwards, but how likely is that given that the longer he waited, the greater the risk would have been that a passerby would notice what was in the car and call the cops?

Update: Londoners shrug. “I sort of think, ‘So what?’”


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Someone at HA fix your clock. It’s 5 or 6 minutes fast for many posts and screwing things up.

NotCoach on May 17, 2013 at 10:02 AM

Dozens of e-mails released by the White House reveal that Obama administration officials were behind the crafting of a false narrative about the attack in Benghazi, Libya. The communications raise questions about who called the shots and why, say an analyst and a lawmaker involved in the investigation. …

The pResident LIED. Four people died.

dogsoldier on May 17, 2013 at 10:02 AM

Woodward looking for relevance.

oldroy on May 17, 2013 at 10:05 AM

He’s being honest, telling the socialists, “You’re messiah is going down.”

dogsoldier on May 17, 2013 at 10:03 AM

woodward continues his desperate quest for relevance.

sesquipedalian on May 17, 2013 at 10:04 AM

Woodward looking for relevance.

oldroy on May 17, 2013 at 10:05 AM

The GOP will betray you

True_King on May 17, 2013 at 10:06 AM

Why did State and the WH lie about Benghazi being a terrorist attack?

NotCoach on May 17, 2013 at 10:11 AM

nonsense.

sesquipedalian on May 17, 2013 at 10:06 AM

Two entire days worth of information missing.

Who gave the stand down order and why?

Why did Killary continue the Youtube talking point two weeks later at the dead American’s funerals?

Bishop on May 17, 2013 at 10:06 AM

Media will sweep this under the rug
Gop over reached according to them
Case closed

cmsinaz on May 17, 2013 at 10:08 AM

Woodward: Don’t dismiss Benghazi as a scandal

…and Fast & Furious?

KOOLAID2 on May 17, 2013 at 10:08 AM

Someone at HA fix your clock. It’s 5 or 6 minutes fast for many posts and screwing things up.

NotCoach on May 17, 2013 at 10:02 AM

I just posted that after oldroy and True_King posted. I’m not first, and I’m not Bishop!

NotCoach on May 17, 2013 at 10:10 AM

woodward continues his desperate quest for relevance.

sesquipedalian on May 17, 2013 at 10:04 AM

Woodward doesn’t need a “quest for relevance”. He brought down a sitting US President. In the journalism world and on the political scene, he will always be relevant.

Boudica on May 17, 2013 at 10:10 AM

woodward continues his desperate quest for relevance.

sesquipedalian on May 17, 2013 at 10:04 AM

…and you continue your desperate quest… to untie your testicles!

KOOLAID2 on May 17, 2013 at 10:10 AM

woodward continues his desperate quest for relevance.

sesquipedalian on May 17, 2013 at 10:04 AM

Why did State and the WH lie about Benghazi being a terrorist attack?

NotCoach on May 17, 2013 at 10:11 AM

Woodward doesn’t need a “quest for relevance”. He brought down a sitting US President. In the journalism world and on the political scene, he will always be relevant.

Boudica on May 17, 2013 at 10:10 AM

Woodward also accurately wrote the sequester was allllll Zero’s idea… Oooooooh that had to burn Zero’s azz.

dogsoldier on May 17, 2013 at 10:13 AM

Only one person could have given the stand down order, the Commander-in-Chief. If anyone other than Obama gave that stand down order on their own, then Obama could very easily fire that person and put that aspect of the scandal to rest. He hasn’t fired anyone because Obama himself gave the stand down order.

MPan on May 17, 2013 at 10:13 AM

Why did State and the WH lie about Benghazi being a terrorist attack?

NotCoach on May 17, 2013 at 10:11 AM

nonsense.

sesquipedalian on May 17, 2013 at 10:06 AM

Why did State and the White Hose lie about Benghazi being the result of a YouTube video?

And, don’t tell me that they didn’t because I will inundate you with quotes.

Resist We Much on May 17, 2013 at 10:13 AM

nonsense.

sesquipedalian on May 17, 2013 at 10:06 AM

So the emails are all fakes?

NotCoach on May 17, 2013 at 10:14 AM

So the emails are all fakes?

NotCoach on May 17, 2013 at 10:14 AM

And all the testimonial evidence are lies.

dogsoldier on May 17, 2013 at 10:14 AM

Who gave the stand down order and why?

Bishop on May 17, 2013 at 10:15 AM

Obama, so the Libyan weapons could be transferred by the Turks to the “Rebels” in Syria.

oldroy on May 17, 2013 at 10:14 AM

So the emails are all fakes?

NotCoach on May 17, 2013 at 10:14 AM

if you were capable of exercising independent judgment instead of relying on ed’s propaganda, you’d realize that the emails disprove the idea that there was a cover up.

btw, ed, that awful sound you hear is your fingers scraping the bottom of the barrel.

sesquipedalian on May 17, 2013 at 10:14 AM

When the cost of social justice, is social justice, the mooring is untethered.

Republican Yogi on May 17, 2013 at 10:14 AM

woodward continues his desperate quest for relevance.

sesquipedalian on May 17, 2013 at 10:04 AM

Old lib talking point: “Woody took down Nixon, he was brave.”

New lib talking point: “Ancient fool should shut up.”

Who gave the stand down order and why?

Who gave the stand down order and why?

Who gave the stand down order and why?

Who gave the stand down order and why?

Who gave the stand down order and why?

Who gave the stand down order and why?

Who gave the stand down order and why?

Who gave the stand down order and why?

Bishop on May 17, 2013 at 10:15 AM

Will the media keep asking these questions?

Nope.

Gatsu on May 17, 2013 at 10:15 AM

Woodward looking for relevance.

oldroy on May 17, 2013 at 10:05 AM

He’s being honest, telling the socialists, “You’re messiah is going down.”

dogsoldier on May 17, 2013 at 10:03 AM

You managed to respond to a comment before that comment was even posted. I wish I had a super power, like Xray vision or something.

Bishop on May 17, 2013 at 10:15 AM

True_King on May 17, 2013 at 10:06 AM

This s**t is still going?

MadisonConservative on May 17, 2013 at 10:17 AM

Squiddie is spinning furiously this morning for his sweetie.

slickwillie2001 on May 17, 2013 at 10:17 AM

Paging Jon Stewart.

Aitch748 on May 17, 2013 at 10:18 AM

sesquipedalian continues his desperate quest for relevance.

sesquipedalian on May 17, 2013 at 10:04 AM

Looks like you and oldroy got your talking points memo at about the same time this morning. ‘woodward looking for relevance’ is this morning’s line of defense, is it?

Midas on May 17, 2013 at 10:18 AM

woodward continues his desperate quest for relevance.

sesquipedalian on May 17, 2013 at 10:04 AM

You Obama fellator. There’s no question you thought Woodward was a hero 5 years ago, criticizing Bush, you pathetic hypocrite.

MadisonConservative on May 17, 2013 at 10:19 AM

Looks like you and oldroy got your talking points memo at about the same time this morning. ‘woodward looking for relevance’ is this morning’s line of defense, is it?

Midas on May 17, 2013 at 10:18 AM

Looks like you have your head up your Azz backwards this morning. Merely trying to point out that Woodward has come late to the party, again. If he was really on the ball, he’d be comparing the body count, the weapons transfer, the fact that this is 10x the importance that Watergate was. But no. Just Woodward as always, tagging along at the end hoping to get lucky again and get one small bit of a story that has already broke so he can once again claim his god-like status.

oldroy on May 17, 2013 at 10:19 AM

Why was the ambassador in an unprotected consulate on the anniversary of the worst terrorist strike on the US?

Is this an example of smart power, leading from behind or some other politically correct concept of the P.O.S. libs in charge of this once great country?

Gotcha on May 17, 2013 at 10:19 AM

if you were capable of exercising independent judgment instead of relying on ed’s propaganda, you’d realize that the emails disprove the idea that there was a cover up.

btw, ed, that awful sound you hear is your fingers scraping the bottom of the barrel.

sesquipedalian on May 17, 2013 at 10:14 AM

Ah, I see. In total denial despite the truth staring you in the face. Any other trolls willing to try a little harder or are all of you burying your heads in the sand like sequesteredbrain ? I know verbalidiocy is just like sequesteredbrain on this topic already, so your denials of truth will be snickered at and forgotten.

Opinion of those who aren’t leftists shills. Was the video lie created because:

a) A stand-down order was given.
b) The upcoming presidential election.
c) Both.

NotCoach on May 17, 2013 at 10:22 AM

As long as there really are more whistleblowers to go forward with future House hearings, the Benghazi scandal still has legs. Though if you’re Team Clinton, you really want the media not to follow the Woodward route but to parrot Carl Bernstein in claiming this is the least of the scandals, and eavesdropping on the AP is the most serious.

jon1979 on May 17, 2013 at 10:22 AM

Why did State and the WH lie about Benghazi being a terrorist attack?

NotCoach on May 17, 2013 at 10:11 AM

nonsense.

sesquipedalian on May 17, 2013 at 10:06 AM

You know, except for the document trail and video evidence from days worth of speeches, interviews, and more, where they, you know, *did* unquestionably lie about it.

Good point.

/

Midas on May 17, 2013 at 10:22 AM

And all the testimonial evidence are lies.

dogsoldier on May 17, 2013 at 10:14 AM

That too.

NotCoach on May 17, 2013 at 10:24 AM

you’d realize that the emails disprove the idea that there was a cover up.

sesquipedalian on May 17, 2013 at 10:14 AM

LOL!

‘Those talking points originated from the intelligence community. They reflect the IC’s best assessments of what they thought had happened. The White House and the State Department have made clear that THE SINGLE ADJUSTMENT that was made to those talking points by either of those two institutions were changing the word ‘consulate’ to ‘diplomatic facility’ because ‘consulate’ was inaccurate.’

Resist We Much on May 17, 2013 at 10:24 AM

you’d realize that the emails disprove the idea that there was a cover up.

sesquipedalian on May 17, 2013 at 10:14 AM

The emails show that State was embarrassed by the incident and afraid it would make them look bad so they directed CIA to redact them to the point of nonsense make them look better.

Who determined the video was to blame? No one has said, have they?

alwaysfiredup on May 17, 2013 at 10:25 AM

As Steve Hayes pointed out, where the hell was any mention of this YouTube video in any of these emails since they claimed that’s what started this whole thing?

crrr6 on May 17, 2013 at 10:26 AM

The White House released 100 pages of e-mails that went around the administration on 9/14 — but oddly not on 9/12 or 9/13

Sesqui apparently missed this part, I can see how considering the font is set at about 28 these days.

Bishop on May 17, 2013 at 10:28 AM

if you were capable of exercising independent judgment instead of relying on ed’s propaganda, you’d realize that the emails disprove the idea that there was a cover up.
sesquipedalian on May 17, 2013 at 10:14 AM

um, wut? Did you get a different set of emails? Where is there any mention of this YouTube bullchyt – the very thing they said started this supposed spontaneous movie riot?

crrr6 on May 17, 2013 at 10:29 AM

“Hydraulic pressure in the system not to tell the truth?” What they heck is that supposed to mean? Woodward rivals Alexander Haig when it comes to coining malapropisms.

potkas7 on May 17, 2013 at 10:30 AM

The liberal water-carriers are starting to look like a legion of Black Knights from Monty Python.

Or a brigade of Baghdad Bobs.

Aitch748 on May 17, 2013 at 10:30 AM

if you were capable of exercising independent judgment instead of relying on ed’s propaganda, you’d realize that the emails disprove the idea that there was a cover up.
sesquipedalian on May 17, 2013 at 10:14 AM

LOL, wow. Through-the-looking-glass moment.

Midas on May 17, 2013 at 10:31 AM

Well dismissal of the Benghazi scandal is exactly what’s going on. GOP Ways and Means chairman says IRS stuff does not rise to level of special prosecutor. Both sides will maintain the status quo and sweep all of it under the rug while we the people get played once again.

bgibbs1000 on May 17, 2013 at 10:31 AM

oldroy on May 17, 2013 at 10:19 AM

Hey, I’m not the one posting the same things, using largely the same words, at the same time, as sequipiddlesitself. If you’re not working from the same talking points, then you ought to be questioning your own sanity. It would certainly make *me* a bit nervous if I suddenly and accidentally found myself agreeing with a sub-moronic Obama lickspittle troll.

Just saying.

Midas on May 17, 2013 at 10:32 AM

Woodward continues his desperate quest for relevance.

Too many here have fallen for the Preezy’s enemies list. Woodward is one that is telling it like it is.

NotEasilyFooled on May 17, 2013 at 10:32 AM

Yeah, the timestamps are hosed up.

Midas on May 17, 2013 at 10:33 AM

Racist!

ronsfi on May 17, 2013 at 10:34 AM

woodward continues his desperate quest for relevance.

sesquipedalian on May 17, 2013 at 10:04 AM

LOL! Woody is a hero to the leftards when he is useful and gets thrown under the bus when he is objective. How convenient! No wonder you all love Obama. Shifty, unprincipled, sees people as disposable just like you.

JAM on May 17, 2013 at 10:35 AM

Maybe “Toria” leaned across her keyboard and accidentaly deleted the 9/11 & 9/12 emails with her boobs, like Nixon’s secretary did with the tapes?

Boudica on May 17, 2013 at 10:36 AM

These emails do not indicate a coverup. These emails start to show the WH and Hillary’s State Department changed and manipulated our intelligence from basic facts to something that would help them politically.

The incessant lies about their horrific incompetence in defending our ambassador, horrific incompetence in preparing for 9/11, and the political distortions made to the talking points covering up their incompetence is what the cover up actually is.

Lies covering up lies covering up incompetence.

GardenGnome on May 17, 2013 at 10:41 AM

Everytime the Benghazi scandal is mentioned, we should also bring up that the whole point of the dishonest narrative that Susan Rice told was to start a campaign to undermine the First Amendment. We were to no longer have our freedom of speech if we wished to criticize Islam. Nakoula Basseley Nakoula is still in a United States jail for expressing his opinion on Islam.

thuja on May 17, 2013 at 10:45 AM

Here’s a funny thing. Even if we give the administration the benefit of the doubt Benghazi was a big enough thing that they felt they couldn’t just say “In the interest of national security, we can’t expose the data that has been gathered on this so far. The investigations are ongoing and all the facts will be brought out in the end.” So they made up a story–perhaps even to lull AQ into thinking that they weren’t even on their trail.

However, unfortunately, I have a memory. Reagan was directly implicated for “disinformation” by the media when some of our disinformation content abroad was brought back as “news” to America and the administration didn’t directly disavow it. The press treated it as the same thing as Reagan lying directly to America. So disinformation, itself, was a big thing for Reagan.

However, now the libs can claim that neither disinformation directly to the American people, nor the events for which the administration couldn’t simply give an answer of National Security are not important enough to warrant further interest.

Is it any wonder that I wouldn’t want to trust their judgment about what is “newsworthy”!

Axeman on May 17, 2013 at 10:46 AM

Remember, lies of omission are still lies.

alwaysfiredup on May 17, 2013 at 10:46 AM

if you were capable of exercising independent judgment instead of relying on ed’s propaganda, you’d realize that the emails disprove the idea that there was a cover up.
sesquipedalian on May 17, 2013 at 10:14 AM

It is a coverup.

The whole, entire goal has been to distract people as to what the protests in Cairo were really about.

As everyone in Cario knows, it had nothing to do with the video.

It was AQ-backed, via two proxy groups who have been applying pressure to Morsi since he took over. He did one thing they wanted – freed the “political prisoners”, which are jihadi’s. The have one other thing they wanted, which hasn’t happened yet because it’s dependent on Obama and State.

At this point, it can’t happen. But, it has a chance after the mid-terms.

budfox on May 17, 2013 at 10:47 AM

Why was the ambassador in an unprotected consulate on the anniversary of the worst terrorist strike on the US?

Is this an example of smart power, leading from behind or some other politically correct concept of the P.O.S. libs in charge of this once great country?

Gotcha on May 17, 2013 at 10:19 AM

The possibilities vary from the stupid, through the ignorant, to the sinister, to the downright crazy. As follows;

Stupid; The One & Co. may have honestly believed that there was no more al-Qaeda. And that sending arms to the Syrian “resistance”, run by that oh-so-secular Muslim Brotherhood, would make everyone in the Arab Crescent love them even more. I buy this, because I believe they really are that f’ing stupid.

Ignorant; Roughly the same as above, except that add in their total ignorance of the actual structure of groups like al-Qaeda, which is cellular in nature. Meaning, killing one leader, or even several, doesn’t kill the group.

As Wretchard relates in his Three Conjectures, it may be impossible for any Islamist group to “surrender”, because by their decentralized nature there is no one authority who can order everyone to lay down their arms. In Libya, we saw what may be an object lesson in that- which The One & Friends reject, because it clashes with their worldview.

Sinister; Ambassador Stevens was the point man for what everyone up the rat line knew was a illegal operation (being eerily like Iran-Contra, much as Fast & Furious was), and as such he was deliberately “hung out” to silence him so he could never testify in front of a Congressional committee under oath.

Note that I’m not saying that he ever intimated that he might; but this crew is paranoid enough that given the chance, they would very probably allow him to be killed to forestall the possibility. After all, they come from the far left, where the motto has always been, “Sacrifices must be made in the name of the Cause”.

Downright Crazy; There may have been some personal animus involved. That is, somebody at top level may simply have not liked Chris Stevens. Keep in mind that in those circles, when somebody proclaims that you’re his or her BFF, you never let them clap you on the back, because there will almost certainly be a dagger in their hand aimed right between your shoulderblades.

In these circles, simply getting somebody s**tcanned is often not enough from a visceral, personal standpoint. They crave vengeance for real or imagined wrongs, and they yearn for blood on the floor as a catharsis. And yes, this can make them do things that are, by any objective judgment, utterly idiotic. In such a state, the concept of “blowback” simply isn’t part of their “reasoning”. This is doubly so for those who believe that their dogmas make them immune to the press.

If I had to vote for who was most likely to want Stevens erased for personal reasons, I’d have to say Hillary. She seems to have a habit of leaving dead guys in her wake. In this case, the reason, if it is ever discovered, may not necessarily make sense in an objective way. Well, unless there’s money involved. (Money has motivated at least as many murders as unrequited or jilted love; ask any prosecuting attorney.)

Please note that these re not mutually exclusive; more than one, or two or more, or all of the above may have been in play with different individuals.

What patently was not in play, was anything even remotely resembling common sense.

clear ether

eon

eon on May 17, 2013 at 10:57 AM

if you were capable of exercising independent judgment instead of relying on ed’s propaganda, you’d realize that the emails disprove the idea that there was a cover up.
sesquipedalian on May 17, 2013 at 10:14 AM

Too funny. If you read the emails, and ignore the fact that they are all about deleting information so the public doesn’t find out about it, you’ll find that there is no cover up!

And you think you have independent thought? please.

Monkeytoe on May 17, 2013 at 11:00 AM

Lesson for Obama: Don’t piss off Bob Woodward.

lea on May 17, 2013 at 11:01 AM

Well dismissal of the Benghazi scandal is exactly what’s going on. GOP Ways and Means chairman says IRS stuff does not rise to level of special prosecutor. Both sides will maintain the status quo and sweep all of it under the rug while we the people get played once again.

bgibbs1000 on May 17, 2013 at 10:31 AM

I agree with you about Benghazi. The IRS scandal might be the one the one that sticks. However, if Hillary runs in 2016, Benghazi will never go away.

lea on May 17, 2013 at 11:15 AM

As Wretchard relates in his Three Conjectures, it may be impossible for any Islamist group to “surrender”, because by their decentralized nature there is no one authority who can order everyone to lay down their arms. In Libya, we saw what may be an object lesson in that- which The One & Friends reject, because it clashes with their worldview.

Which leads to one very unpleasant conclusion for what is required to stop these savages. We have historical precedent in the cult of the Thuggees who were also more or less cellular in nature. … and no, nobody thought that they had a legitimate claim to be practicing their religion.

AZfederalist on May 17, 2013 at 11:41 AM

eon on May 17, 2013 at 10:57 AM

Very nice analysis

AZfederalist on May 17, 2013 at 11:41 AM

So the CIA and the FBI knew from the get-go that these were terrorist attacks and that al-qaeda or an affiliated terrorist group was involved and the State Department and WH have the CIA delete all references to al-qaeda and terrorism and substitute an obscure YouTube video, and this isn’t a scandal.

Actually, it isn’t a scandal. The definition of a scandal is: “public embarrassment”. It goes beyond that. But I don’t know what’s the name of a situation that worse than a scandal. Criminal behavior? Treasonous behavior?

GAlpha10 on May 17, 2013 at 11:51 AM

I posted this in the wrong thread, so re-posting it here:

I’m really curious as to why the White House is so frightened of the truth on this one.

The truth appears to be that it was a terrorist attack, and that the administration was naive, negligent, and incompetent in the days leading up to the attack, and during it.

Yes, that’s an ugly sentence. But there’s nothing in it that’s impeachable that I see, or that would likely even damage the President’s approval number long term.

Frankly, I don’t even see that it’s all that damaging to Hillary’s Presidential prospects. In 2016, people really will be saying “oh, that was so long ago.”

And yet, the White House seems absolutely terrified of the truth of this getting out.

I hate to be a conspiracy theorist, but does that mean that there’s more to this than my summary? Something that would be far more damaging to this administration or to Hillary?

And it would have to be the former, right? Does anyone really believe that Obama would go through such machinations to protect Hillary? No, it’s gotta be himself.

And I see that eon has sort of an answer to my questions…

eon on May 17, 2013 at 10:57 AM

Chris of Rights on May 17, 2013 at 12:10 PM

This is a great time to have a national debate on gay marriage I think.

NoDonkey on May 17, 2013 at 12:11 PM

The conference I just attended the last couple days had the absolute luck of having Bob Woodward as speaker on Wednesday. It was scary, but all too believable, even Barack Obama knew he did not know how to lead back in 2007. He saw the opportunity for power even though he knew he was not qualified to exercise it.

WashJeff on May 17, 2013 at 12:14 PM

if you were capable of exercising independent judgment instead of relying on ed’s propaganda, you’d realize that the emails disprove the idea that there was a cover up.

sesquipedalian on May 17, 2013 at 10:14 AM

Quite the opposite, it puts the lie to a number of statements (1) the entire youtube video narrative, (2) the “CIA gave us bogus information” line, and (3) the “talking points didn’t undergo revision, or only underwent stylistic changes, or only changed consulate to diplomatic facility”.

And this is with 2 days prior missing, and no indication of what was said at the deputys’ meeting, where the final and heaviest edit was made, which is shown in the emails.

You did read the emails didn’t you?

rightmind on May 17, 2013 at 1:01 PM

As Wretchard relates in his Three Conjectures, it may be impossible for any Islamist group to “surrender”, because by their decentralized nature there is no one authority who can order everyone to lay down their arms. In Libya, we saw what may be an object lesson in that- which The One & Friends reject, because it clashes with their worldview.

Which leads to one very unpleasant conclusion for what is required to stop these savages. We have historical precedent in the cult of the Thuggees who were also more or less cellular in nature. … and no, nobody thought that they had a legitimate claim to be practicing their religion.

Very nice analysis

AZfederalist on May 17, 2013 at 11:41 AM

Thanks.

I might add to your insightful comparison, that according to Colin Wilson in The History of Murder, there is strong evidence to indicate that the Thuggee were originally an offshoot of the Hashasin in Persia, the cult of Islamist killers run by Hasan ibn-Sabah. When their stronghold at Alamut was destroyed by the Mongols in 1267, substantial numbers of them who were elsewhere escaped. Apparently, at least some migrated to India and were soon “back in business at the same old stand” as Madonna sang in Dick Tracy. Over the generations, they moved away from Islam and embraced the worship of Kali.

Showing once more that killing a hydra is probably easier than destroying a cult which is itself devoted to destruction.

cheers

eon

eon on May 17, 2013 at 1:20 PM

Out of curiosity, I wondered, do trolls sometimes post something of substance?

woodward continues his desperate quest for relevance.

sesquipedalian on May 17, 2013 at 10:04 AM

None there. Just an insult.

nonsense.

sesquipedalian on May 17, 2013 at 10:06 AM

Nope. Unsupported assertion of irrelevance.

if you were capable of exercising independent judgment instead of relying on ed’s propaganda, you’d realize that the emails disprove the idea that there was a cover up.

btw, ed, that awful sound you hear is your fingers scraping the bottom of the barrel.

sesquipedalian on May 17, 2013 at 10:14 AM

Can’t find any there. Just another unsupported assertion and some insults.

That’s it for this thread. The troll didn’t even bother to respond to all of the replies it got.

farsighted on May 17, 2013 at 1:34 PM

And I see that eon has sort of an answer to my questions…

Chris of Rights on May 17, 2013 at 12:10 PM

Thanks to you, too.

A lot of people think that The One & Co. are trying to get “out in front” of this all now, to clear the decks for the midterms next year.

I believe just the opposite. I think they were sure that none of this would ever come out. The IRS crew would keep their mouths shut, the MSM would help them cover up Benghazi, and nobody would find out about their antics with AP.

Unfortunately, such maneuverings leave victims, ranging from the Tea Party groups to the State Department officials who were left twisting in the breeze in Libya. Ad all of the above got fed up enough that they complained.

Even then the MSM wasn’t going to listen to the people from State; Our Messiah could never do anything like that!

And they weren’t about to listen to all those right-wing reactionaries in the Tea Parties; Never mind being interrogated, if we had our way you’d all be eviscerated, castrated, blinded, pithed, stumped, impaled, stuffed with razor blades, and buried alive!!

But then the AP material came to light.

That was what turned this “phoney scandal” into a Perfect Storm. When the MSM realized that their Messiah might not hate them as he (and they) hate everyone who is not exactly like them, but neither does he trust them. And that he was quite capable of breaking the law to get what he wants, even from them.

To the MSM, that was simply intolerable. Even from their Messiah.

As the old saying goes, there is no honor among thieves. And payback’s a b***h.

cheers

eon

eon on May 17, 2013 at 1:35 PM

Woodward looking for relevance.

oldroy on May 17, 2013 at 10:05 AM

He’s being honest, telling the socialists, “You’re messiah is going down.”

dogsoldier on May 17, 2013 at 10:03 AM

You managed to respond to a comment before that comment was even posted. I wish I had a super power, like Xray vision or something.

Bishop on May 17, 2013 at 10:15 AM

It’s not a superpower, and it’s not Hot Gas being buggy with the timestamps again. Some posters really are just that predictable.

(Did they ever fix it? I’m curious… 2:42 PM)

Gingotts on May 17, 2013 at 2:42 PM

What the F is the CIA doing by letting State write their intelligence reports?

The CIA should have let Hillary make any changes she wanted to — but under HER OWN signature!

I guess CIA hires stenographers, not agents nor analysts, these days.

What an abominination if we can’t trust the CIA lapdogs to stand on their own back legs.

Heads should roll at the CIA, but I haven’t heard many complaints about the CIA doing this.

fred5678 on May 17, 2013 at 3:59 PM

Ah, the man with the nose of a bloodhound that could scent any minute whiff of anti-American behavior by our leaders-a man who has sat quietly in the face of obvious agenda’s to take apart the gem of western civilization– a man who long ago has sold his flexible soul to the political left, awakens. Yes Rip Van Woodward, things are much different when the enemies of America, God, family, and freedom are in charge. Rub your eyes and pretend to have been sleeping all these years.

Don L on May 17, 2013 at 4:01 PM

What the F is the CIA doing by letting State write their intelligence reports?

Goodness, the boss signs their paychecks–hence their new motto, “submission before honor”

Don L on May 17, 2013 at 4:08 PM

if you were capable of exercising independent judgment instead of relying on ed’s propaganda, you’d realize that the emails disprove the idea that there was a cover up.

sesquipedalian on May 17, 2013 at 10:14 AM

I love your devious use of the decent idea of “independent judgment” when you leftists have as the goal of your soulless agenda to control every single free citizen, that they may never are use independent judgment. Sort of like Satan quoting scripture to Christ?

Don L on May 17, 2013 at 4:37 PM

You managed to respond to a comment before that comment was even posted. I wish I had a super power, like Xray vision or something.

Bishop on May 17, 2013 at 10:15 AM

Wow, how did I do that?

dogsoldier on May 17, 2013 at 5:57 PM

It’s not a superpower, and it’s not Hot Gas being buggy with the timestamps again. Some posters really are just that predictable.

(Did they ever fix it? I’m curious… 2:42 PM)

Gingotts on May 17, 2013 at 2:42 PM

That would be a cool one to have. Then I could deal with the trolls up front and then the rest of us could discuss the matter.

dogsoldier on May 17, 2013 at 6:00 PM

That would be a cool one to have. Then I could deal with the trolls up front and then the rest of us could discuss the matter.

dogsoldier on May 17, 2013 at 6:00 PM

Even better, -an ignore button.

slickwillie2001 on May 17, 2013 at 7:03 PM

Woodward doesn’t need a “quest for relevance”. He brought down a sitting US President. In the journalism world and on the political scene, he will always be relevant.

Boudica on May 17, 2013 at 10:10 AM

Always relevant, not always lauded for it.
(Like your handle, BTW)

AesopFan on May 17, 2013 at 10:25 PM