10:30 10:50 a.m.: Cloture 2 — Something Wicked This Way Comes; Update: Ensign will vote no, Cochran may vote yes; Update: What’s your alternative, asks Teddy — a Gestapo? Update: 53 NO’S — CLOTURE FAILS! Update: Roll of glory added!
posted at 9:27 am on June 28, 2007 by Allahpundit
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We’re prepared for any contingency. Victory means a Humpbot cameo; defeat means I get tanked on hard liquor in the middle of the day. It’s win/win, really. The boss has already done a quickie round-up of stories this morning predicting the bill’s demise. John Hawkins’s Senate source lends his voice to the chorus:
To begin with, my source said he is guardedly optimistic that the bill will fail the 2nd cloture vote tomorrow. That is because he thinks that some of the senators who voted for cloture on Tuesday were doing so because they were being “senatorial” by allowing a debate. But, that only goes so far, and everyone realizes at this point that the Thursday vote is the final vote on amnesty as far as the base is concerned. In other words, a “yes” on cloture is a “yes” to amnesty.
At that point, I asked about the “fool the yahoos” maneuver. Will there be senators voting “yes” on cloture and then voting against the final bill and hoping that they can avoid being tagged as supporting amnesty? He said that because of all the attention this issue has gotten, the base isn’t going to be fooled and that anyone who does that will just have to hope that his election isn’t close enough that thousands conservatives sitting at home can swing it the other way.
McCain’s Iowa campaign chairman told WaPo yesterday he wished the issue of immigration had never come to the floor. As for St. John’s crony-in-chief, he’s featured prominently in the Times’s story this morning about senators being threatened by nutjobs angry over the bill. See-Dub will clue you in to the agenda behind the piece if you haven’t guessed already, but here’s your quote of the day from the man who once derided amnesty opponents as “bigots” before a crowd of swooning La Raza members:
“One of the requirements of public service in modern America is dealing with a few voices that are full of hate,” Mr. Graham said. “And our discourse and the way we politic, the way we engage each other, brings that out.”
It’s bringing something out: according to freshman Blue Dog Jon Tester, the feedback he’s getting from constituents is more overwhelmingly opposed on this issue than it is on Iraq, where public opposition currently hovers in the mid- to high-60s.
Updates will be flying fast and furious in an hour or so. I’ll do my best to liveblog the vote, although on Tuesday they didn’t repeat each senator’s vote after calling his/her name so it may not be possible. While you wait, read John Shadegg’s nightmare scenario at NRO about the various loopholes built into the bill that would let illegals caught while sneaking across the border nonetheless obtain legal status. Oh, and read this piece at Politico, which is comic in its adulation of Ted Kennedy even by normal media standards.
Humpbot waits in the wings, wondering if it’s his time to shine. Exit question: Pelosi and the gang deserve a pay raise, don’t you think?
Update: Here’s a no we weren’t counting on — Ensign has flipped. Don’t fear the reaper!
Update: They’re trying to flip Thad Cochran the other way now. If my vote tally last night was right, then we don’t need him.
Update: This must be one of those “voices of hate” Lindsey Graham was wringing his hands about. This debate was Godwinned weeks ago; might as well keep it up to the bitter end.
How many times does Teddy need to be told “close the borders first” before he grasps that that’s the alternative?
Update: Reid’s taken abuse, Bush has taken abuse, McCain and Graham and Kyl and Martinez have taken abuse enough for a lifetime, but one guy has stayed miraculously clean even though he’s sat idly by and let this sham take its course despite the uproar from his base and the pleas from Sessions et al. Save a little bile for him.
Update: How absurd has it gotten?
In case you didn’t catch this, the opponents of shamnesty are rushing through their statements because the Grand Schemers have only given them 10 minutes to speak. The shamnesty senators will get the rest of the hour to talk. “Typical,” says Session, of the way this debate has gone. And so starkly absurd. You’ve got the pro-amnesty senators on the floor now all bleating about how debate shouldn’t be ended…having just limited their opponents’ time to a measly 10 minutes.
Update: Here we go. Standby for liveblog totals.
First run-through is 19-21. Webb voted no! I think most of them deliberately haven’t voted yet, though, so that they can see what the first totals look like and then vote accordingly.
25-30 now! Humpbot is warming up…
31-38! TWO MORE.
I count fully 53 no’s. We did it.
Robot libido
Uploaded by sabo-tage
Update: Here’s the roll. Gonna go do the cross-check to see who switched.
Update: The yes/no switchers were Bingaman, Bond, Brown, Brownback, Burr, Coleman, Collins, Domenici, Ensign, Harkin, McConnell, Murkowski, Ben Nelson, Pryor, Stevens, Voinovich(!), Warner, and Webb. Republicans are in boldfaced. I guess you can thank Sean Hannity for shaming Voinovich into flipping.
It’s worth going back and looking at the order in which they voted, to see who held back and waited to gauge how the vote was going before casting his/her ballot. I’ll bet Mitch McConnell was one of them.
Update: Well, well. Brownback initially voted yes — and then switched to no when he realized he was going to lose. Disgraceful.
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In a way, this sham-nesty legislation is a big vote loser. Everyone in the GOP will forever distrust anything the current leaders of the GOP (Martinez, Lott, McConnell) will say or do in the future.
We know who the “true leaders” are, and their names are Sessions, DeMint, Vitter, Thune, among others.
MSNBC wants me to be overly concerned that “the Hispanic vote” will now vote Democrat because Democrats want to reward law-breakers with USA citizenship?
If I was Hispanic, I would be ticked off at the racist suggestion by MSNBC. I know many Hispanics who want our laws and the Constitution to be enforced.
To be truly Hispanic in no way commits one to the position of favoring the destruction of the Constitution and the rule of law.
ColtsFan on June 28, 2007 at 2:51 PM
All of the names mentioned above along with many more cannot be replaced soon enough so as to ensure that the voices representing us actually do just that - represent us.
Agreed
unseen on June 28, 2007 at 2:51 PM
MSNBC
Does anyone watch this station?
unseen on June 28, 2007 at 2:52 PM
Finally we can say, at least for now
amnistitio delendatus est
apostle26 on June 28, 2007 at 2:53 PM
I’m helping AP get to 1000…Hey BC the question isn’t how much these assclowns were bought for. The question should be how much will the 08 assclowns be bought for.
The old saying “people get the government they deserve” isn’t making sense anymore. I keep asking myself WTF did I do to deserve this?
repvoter on June 28, 2007 at 2:53 PM
Buzzy on June 28, 2007 at 2:39 PM
Buzzy, MSNBC, and others who think this are full of caca. Those Latinos who vote are split, like all other groups, and they are not all for the shamnesty bill either.
The representatives of the illegal groups have one vote each, and hopefully the dems won’t have too many illegals and dead voting, again. That’s another thing which s/b enforced, or made the law where it isn’t yet - show legal IDs when voting, pictures et all.
Entelechy on June 28, 2007 at 2:54 PM
I know many Hispanics who want our laws and the Constitution to be enforced.
Exactly if i was a german fleeing Hitler I would not vote for a Hitler clone just because he was for the German people.
Mexicans are fleeing a corrupt socialist government why would they vote for more of the same. The only answer that comes to mind is a lack of education. We have thanks to the SCOTUS 1981 decsion millions of hispanics getting an American education. That IMO is the reason more and more hispanics are voting GOP. Not because Bush wants to give them a free ride.
unseen on June 28, 2007 at 2:57 PM
2000 and 2004 were the first elections that occurred since the 1981 decsions enrolled all of these children into our education system.
unseen on June 28, 2007 at 2:58 PM
Bookmark their URL http://code.google.com/p/contribminer/ and check in from time to time.
RushBaby on June 28, 2007 at 2:59 PM
Let’s face it. If you vote for socialist/liberal form of government in the face of historic evidence that that form of government does not work. You either are uneducated with regards to history or you will starve to death if some program is taken away.
unseen on June 28, 2007 at 3:03 PM
Thanks to Senator Dole for her steadfast support of Americans and LEGAL immigrants. Thanks also to Senator Burr for coming back around to the pro-LEGAL immigrant side of the argument. We are happy to have you back on our side of this important issue. Forget any ugliness I may have spoken in anger yesterday afternoon. You’ll be happy to know the voicemail interrupted me before I could say anything really disagreeable.
Abu Daboo Doo on June 28, 2007 at 3:05 PM
kos new lead story - begging for second quarter money
RushBaby on June 28, 2007 at 3:05 PM
Not all, but the majority of the “Undocumented Americans” who have managed to vote, already vote for the Dhimmicrats, so its really no big loss in that arena.
Viper1 on June 28, 2007 at 3:06 PM
du lead story - Bush won’t supply subpoenaed documents
RushBaby on June 28, 2007 at 3:06 PM
Craig (R-ID)
Graham (R-SC)
Gregg (R-NH)
Hagel (R-NE)
Kyl (R-AZ)
Lott (R-MS)
Lugar (R-IN)
Lugar of INDIANA? Craig of IDAHO? That is what simply amazes me. Those are two conservative states, and yet their Senators act as if their constituents do not exist.
ColtsFan on June 28, 2007 at 3:06 PM
eschaton/atrios lead story - Scooter Libby’s new inmate number
RushBaby on June 28, 2007 at 3:08 PM
AP, what does number 1,000 get?
Come on post a prize.
right2bright on June 28, 2007 at 3:08 PM
Thanks to Senator Dole for her steadfast support of Americans and LEGAL immigrants. Thanks also to Senator Burr for coming back around to the pro-LEGAL immigrant side of the argument
Yes called both to thank them. Will vote for Dole in 2008. Not sure about Burr in 2010 Will withhold judgement but leaning towards a no vote after his conduct in this bill.
unseen on June 28, 2007 at 3:08 PM
Of course, an iPhone.
right2bright on June 28, 2007 at 3:08 PM
Craig (R-ID)
Graham (R-SC)
Gregg (R-NH)
Hagel (R-NE)
Kyl (R-AZ)
Lott (R-MS)
Lugar (R-IN)
Clinton (D-NY)
Obama (D-IL)
Lugar of INDIANA? Craig of IDAHO? That is what simply amazes me. Those are two conservative states, and yet their Senators act as if their constituents do not exist.
ColtsFan on June 28, 2007 at 3:06 PM
Needs the added flavor..salt in the wounds..
unseen on June 28, 2007 at 3:10 PM
Craig is up for re-election NEXT YEAR.
Very interesting.
ColtsFan on June 28, 2007 at 3:11 PM
unseen on June 28, 2007 at 2:52 PM
Only with the sound off and my eyes closed…….
doriangrey on June 28, 2007 at 3:13 PM
Ok…….so if (unlike me) you are sitting in an office cubical somewhere counting the hours and minutes until you get off work so you can grab a ice cold beer and celebrate this small but wonderful victory…sing out like…….well somebody preparing to celebrate our republic function the way our founding fathers intended it to……..
doriangrey on June 28, 2007 at 3:16 PM
I left for lunch with a great feeling. Celebrated with a couple shots at the local pub(it’s 5 o’clock somewhere). I’ve heard it here and elsewhere and I agree…we can’t lose this momentum.
I would suggest that PRCal and unamused divy up their work for us on their project page. It’s gonna take a leader to keep the fire stoked. who knows…we might even vote for one of them someday. ;););)
Pilgrim on June 28, 2007 at 3:16 PM
That robot has a problem with target recognition, the Senator does too but the robot isn’t trying to destroy America, at least not yet.
Speakup on June 28, 2007 at 3:17 PM
Golly!!!
BOTH my Senators did the right thing!
The surprising thing is that I’m more amazed that Domenici, the normally conservative Republican flipped than I am about Bingaman, the Dem…. even though both were reported in the last couple of days to be considering flipping.
Bingaman is one of the least ‘moonbatty’ Dems, but he does tend to vote the party line unless his constituents really overwhelm him to do the opposite, Apparently I’m not the only one who
harassedcommunicated with him.Domenici really wants amnesty and easy immigration due to personal, psychological reasons, but I guess he overcame them, either because of his innate conservatism, or because he isn’t ready to retire to a newly ‘reconquistaed’
“NuevoMehico”.Whatever the reason, I’m going to have to send them both a big Thank You for todays votes.
LegendHasIt on June 28, 2007 at 3:18 PM
Hmm, the hyperbole and lunacy of many of you a couple days ago looks pretty silly now. Though disturbing it was at how much steam this bill had, I never really thought it had a chance. Glad to know I was right, but of course this issue is far from over.
Patriot33 on June 28, 2007 at 3:18 PM
tomas,
I know for a fact that HA and Michelle support our troops and support their mission. I know because I met and talked to Bryan and Michelle at the “Wall” on March 17th. I am sure that many other HA fans were there as well.
Sorry, didn’t mean to hijack anything here. Just needed to clarify a few things.
Anyway, I am so freaking happy right now about this bill going down in flames. I did not serve 6 years in the Army to have these socialist take over my country. Thanks to everyone who put on the pressure.
BobK on June 28, 2007 at 3:19 PM
We KNOW why the Lib-Dems are for amnesty… It’s the ‘nice’ thing to do. But what could possibly make the those Reps be FOR amnesty…? It must be a fear of being called a racist.
Rugged Individual on June 28, 2007 at 3:21 PM
Did it ever occur to you that the reason they caved on passing this abortion of a bill was because of people’s “Hyperbole and Lunacy”?
Bad Candy on June 28, 2007 at 3:22 PM
a cookie
JackS on June 28, 2007 at 3:22 PM
I respect this Senator. I have voted for him in the past.
But he is very mistaken on the sham-nesty legislation.
ColtsFan on June 28, 2007 at 3:22 PM
I think many of the illegals want to flee the rampant corruption of Latin America. MSNBC might be suprized to find some support for the rule of law in that group.
saiga on June 28, 2007 at 3:22 PM
The defeat of this bill buys some time. Meanwhile, the engineers at Kralizec Laboratories will continue working hard on their two most important projects, (1) a blend of enzymatic food additives that converts the common contraceptive hormones to their inert metabolites in vivo and (2) a genetically modified bacterium that thrives on thin, moist latex films. Soon our victory will be complete.
Kralizec on June 28, 2007 at 3:23 PM
Now you’re just trying to make me cry.
Slublog on June 28, 2007 at 3:24 PM
Patriot33:
“Hmm, the hyperbole and lunacy of many of you a couple days ago looks pretty silly now.”
Did you flunk Cause and Effect 101 or what?
JM Hanes on June 28, 2007 at 3:24 PM
death to Shamnesty!
Drtuddle on June 28, 2007 at 3:24 PM
Mmm, I’d like to see the look on President Bush’s face right now.
Kralizec on June 28, 2007 at 3:24 PM
Speakup on June 28, 2007 at 3:17 PM
Oh bullpucky that robot doesn’t a problem with target recognition, it just like to hump…
doriangrey on June 28, 2007 at 3:25 PM
And recreate it here.
TheBigOldDog on June 28, 2007 at 3:26 PM
Only with the sound off and my eyes closed…….
doriangrey on June 28, 2007 at 3:13 PM
Everything I need to know from MSNBC I learned in Kindergarten
.
unseen on June 28, 2007 at 3:26 PM
Slublog on June 28, 2007 at 3:24 PM
No..I would be trying to make you cry if I knew how to embed a picture of me swilling down some of this golden Sam Adams nectar and did it…….
doriangrey on June 28, 2007 at 3:27 PM
And recreate it here.
TheBigOldDog on June 28, 2007 at 3:26 PM
Only the uneducated ones. With education you get GOP voters
unseen on June 28, 2007 at 3:27 PM
There’s a pretty good profile at Drudge.
RushBaby on June 28, 2007 at 3:28 PM
I think that maybe what tomas was trying to say was that we should put this kind of passion, effort and willpower (i.e. calls and letters to legislators, etc) into demanding support for the military and their present effort (the surge), and maybe we could get similar results.
And if even if he wasn’t saying that, I am! =)
docob on June 28, 2007 at 1:45 PM
Yes, that is what i’m saying
tomas on June 28, 2007 at 1:50 PM
Ditto! I am with you guys 100%. Lets kick ass and end this war and the darn Palestinian/Israel problem.
sonnyspats1 on June 28, 2007 at 3:30 PM
RushBaby on June 28, 2007 at 3:28 PM
I hope its one of him crying……..
doriangrey on June 28, 2007 at 3:30 PM
Hyperbole and Lunacy!! I think I have names for my two new puppies!
RushBaby on June 28, 2007 at 3:30 PM
You’re assumption is completely wrong. They are leaving for better jobs. It has nothing to do with corruption or discontent at their form of Government. Just ask them.
People, especially poor, uneducated, low skilled people, always vote their pocketbooks. They’ll vote for whoever provides the biggest handouts.
TheBigOldDog on June 28, 2007 at 3:31 PM
Not at all. In most cases the bulging pockets from big and small business, and the idea of a true global economy. In the case of El Presidente it’s this and in part the heart he has for his nanny, the caretaker who lives with them, Texas background, the perceived notion that some will vote conservative (as if some wouldn’t), and not to forget - it was one of his major after 2004 domestic initiatives, and after 2006 the only one possible with the nutty congress.
Entelechy on June 28, 2007 at 3:31 PM
Good point.
The American Left supports amnesty legislation because they already know it increases the Welfare-Socialism federal nanny state.
They support it because they know it means the death of any future Social Security reform.
Basically, the American Left supports anything which attacks the rule of law in our country.
ColtsFan on June 28, 2007 at 3:32 PM
iPhones all around guys! You’ve taken live-blogging to a whole new level.
tomas:
If you didn’t have body bags to stand on, you’d have no moral authority at all, would you?
JM Hanes on June 28, 2007 at 3:33 PM
sonnyspats1 on June 28, 2007 at 3:30 PM
Hmmm, I might be with you on that, but you are going to have to define some of the qualifiers there first.
1) How do you define kicking ass…AND…ending this war…
2) What exactly is the Palestinian/Israel problem?
doriangrey on June 28, 2007 at 3:33 PM
Heh heh. Cheers.
Slublog on June 28, 2007 at 3:33 PM
Amen and Amen! Hammer your Senators and Representatives to FIGHT the war rather than PLAYING war with our brothers, sisters, moms, dads, and kids.
Of course, they would then be calling for massive spending in the DC Infrastructure grid to support the calls. ;)
Pilgrim on June 28, 2007 at 3:34 PM
The Left supports anything which takes from Peters to give to Pauls, their current constituency is not liberal enough, the Blacks are no longer the largest minority and some are getting smart about the wool having been pulled over their heads and them being taken for granted.
The Hispanics are the largest minority, many are poor, they spring from a muddled socialist ‘heaven’.
However, none of this would turn out the way they or anyone imagines. On the right and the left there are many assumptions on the part of those who were in favor of shamnesty.
Entelechy on June 28, 2007 at 3:36 PM
1) right now we are not fighting the war. Our military, while actively pressing the surge, are really targets thanks to the NYCrimes et al inspired ROE placed upon them. If we FIGHT the war…the war will end.
2) End the GWOT and the mini-barbarians lose their funding ergo…no more hamas\hezbos\fatah…no more palestinian problem. Israel can handle the trouble makers if they are not actively supported by Iran and AQ.
Pilgrim on June 28, 2007 at 3:37 PM
I agree wholeheartedly with the above.
With the proper education in Constitutional history, you get conservative GOP voters.
Isn’t this what Plato in The Republic was referring to when he spoke of the need for philosopher-kings? Otherwise, everything reverts back to mob-ocracy and anarchy.
ColtsFan on June 28, 2007 at 3:39 PM
Anyone but the incumbent in ‘08. Toss them ALL out.
black campbell on June 28, 2007 at 3:39 PM
Slublog on June 28, 2007 at 3:33 PM
Heh heh you’ll escape that accursed cubical soon enough than you and hollygolightly and IrishEi can all join me in spirit in celebrating our great republic….
doriangrey on June 28, 2007 at 3:40 PM
They are leaving for better jobs
TheBigOldDog on June 28, 2007 at 3:31 PM
The reason that have shit jobs in Mexico is their government. With education comes this knowledge. The uneducated vote their pocketbook 100% of the time the educated ones vote their pocketbooks maybe 50/50. The more education the more a person votes for the means to fatten their pocketbooks (i.e. Freedom) than the money itself.
I stand by my belief that the Hispanic vote turning to the GOP in 2000 and 2004 in such large numbers is because it was the first two national elections where a majority of hispanics were educated entirely in America. Not has the drivebys insist because Bush was their friend.
unseen on June 28, 2007 at 3:40 PM
ROE would appear to be the biggest problem… that and lack of adequate accurate mainstream press.
Spirit of 1776 on June 28, 2007 at 3:42 PM
With the proper education in Constitutional history, you get conservative GOP voters.
Isn’t this what Plato in The Republic was referring to when he spoke of the need for philosopher-kings? Otherwise, everything reverts back to mob-ocracy and anarchy
yes I think you have the right person for the quote not sure. but another quote comes to mind by Churchill.
If your young [uneducated] and not a liberal you have no heart and if your old and not a conservative you have no mind.[educated]
Or something like that.
unseen on June 28, 2007 at 3:45 PM
Pilgrim on June 28, 2007 at 3:37 PM
If thats what sonnyspats1 meant then yea baby I’m on board……Here in SoCal we have a saying…Drive it like you stoled it. And that is exactly how we should be fighting this war. we should have rounded up the sh$ts at the Slimes and CNN and tried those bastards for treason a long time ago.
More importantly we should have had ROE that told our military in no uncertain terms “If it moves..Shoot it..If it doesn’t move…Shoot it anyway…and if it bleeds…Shoot it again”…
doriangrey on June 28, 2007 at 3:46 PM
Right, Entelechy; I’m reminded of Mark Steyn’s remark that you can’t predict what will happen if you outsource the future. Now the Americans must join hips and retake control of their future.
Kralizec on June 28, 2007 at 3:47 PM
I always knew I was a heartless bastard…
Bad Candy on June 28, 2007 at 3:49 PM
thx - Zetterson on June 28, 2007 at 2:38 PM
Lily, Stay TF OUT of COLORADO! Her lies are endless.
shooter on June 28, 2007 at 3:50 PM
The American Left knows it cannot count on blacks in the future.
Several of my African-American friends have said, “I may be black, but Jesse and Sharpton and the liberals do not speak for me.”
ColtsFan on June 28, 2007 at 3:51 PM
You’re assumption is completely wrong. They are leaving for better jobs. It has nothing to do with corruption or discontent at their form of Government. Just ask them.
People, especially poor, uneducated, low skilled people, always vote their pocketbooks. They’ll vote for whoever provides the biggest handouts.
TheBigOldDog on June 28, 2007 at 3:31 PM
Only the uneducated ones. The 2000 and 2004 elections were the first to have Hispanics educated in our school system for 18 years to vote in large numbers. And the result a huge shift towards the GOP. If we stop the influx and educate the ones here with our form of government the data shows a large part of them will be conservative. The trick is to educate them. We must reform the education system to have any chance of keeping our country together. It had little to do with Bush it was the education. Most of the Blacks voting for GOP are the educated ones. Compare Sharpton and Steele or Jackson and Thomas.
unseen on June 28, 2007 at 3:51 PM
Bad Candy on June 28, 2007 at 3:49 PM
I often wish I was a heartless bastard, but sadly I am a conservative so I guess I’ll just have to settle for being an old (46) bastard……
doriangrey on June 28, 2007 at 3:52 PM
Everyone did a great job defeating Bush’s amnesty bill
tomas on June 28, 2007 at 3:53 PM
By the way, wasn’t someone supposed to set up an “iPhone for Allahpundit” campaign?
He and others really deserve our appreciation.
ColtsFan on June 28, 2007 at 3:55 PM
Everyone did a great job defeating Bush/Clinton/Obama/Kennedy/Graham/McCain’s amnesty bill
There added some context.
unseen on June 28, 2007 at 3:56 PM
tomas on June 28, 2007 at 3:53 PM
TROLL………
doriangrey on June 28, 2007 at 3:57 PM
Can we have a no confidence vote in DHS?
unseen on June 28, 2007 at 3:57 PM
Spot on, unseen. Nothing proves this more than the fights over justices I think.
Spirit of 1776 on June 28, 2007 at 3:57 PM
Yes, yes we did.
And victory is sweet.
Slublog on June 28, 2007 at 3:58 PM
Back from lunch. It’s a little late, I know. But I just gotta say,
I love you guys.
IrishEi on June 28, 2007 at 3:59 PM
Spirit of 1776 on June 28, 2007 at 3:57 PM
Hell you dont even need the proper education in Constitutional history, you just need to earn an average blue collar living.
doriangrey on June 28, 2007 at 4:00 PM
With the proper education in Constitutional history, you get conservative GOP voters.
Spot on, unseen. Nothing proves this more than the fights over justices I think.
Spirit of 1776 on June 28, 2007 at 3:57 PM
I agree but the quote was not mine it was ColtsFan’s. Sorry didn’t copy his entire post.
unseen on June 28, 2007 at 4:01 PM
I “threatened” (no, promise) my senator (Kyl) not to vote for him again, ever.
Now, where do we go from here to make our government to actually enforce existing laws ?
SIJ6141 on June 28, 2007 at 4:01 PM
Again, fleeing for better jobs is not the same thing as fleeing your government. Defectors from the USSR were doing so for freedom, not simply money. People from South America come purely for the money. That’s why they were waving the flags of their home countries at the rallies. You think people from communist countries came to American and waved the Soviet or Cuban flags? No. If people from South America had big socialist programs at home that provided their needs, they’d stay home. Again, just ask them.
There are studies out there that completely refute your assumptions about what future generations of immigrants do these days. The chances that subsequent generations receive welfare benefits is much higher for that group than for the population in general. They turn out to become largely a permanent underclass. Besides, if your assumption had any validity you’d expect the African-American population to be equally split and they aren’t.
Poor people vote their pocketbooks. It’s that simple.
TheBigOldDog on June 28, 2007 at 4:01 PM
IrishEi on June 28, 2007 at 3:59 PM
Hmmm, sounds like somebody had themselves a pint or two for lunch……wink wink nod nod say no more…
doriangrey on June 28, 2007 at 4:01 PM
ah yep ColtsFan on June 28, 2007 at 3:39 PM
Well I blame you, unseen, for establishing enough credibility that I take the time to read your comments! (no offense to CF)
Spirit of 1776 on June 28, 2007 at 4:03 PM
AP, can you update post with a reset of Teddy singing in Spanish again? Seems appropriate.
Schweggie on June 28, 2007 at 4:04 PM
Spirit of 1776 on June 28, 2007 at 4:03 PM
And I blame me for IrishEi coming back from lunch in love with all of us…
doriangrey on June 28, 2007 at 4:04 PM
Agree, there’s a lot to that. And I would content that Constitutional history was written by such people.
Spirit of 1776 on June 28, 2007 at 4:05 PM
Man it takes a loooooooong time to read through almost 1000 comments. Dang, now I’ve got to get back to work and probably work some overtime too to make up for it. Boy, was it worth it though. Beats almost crying on Tuesday…
I am feeling positively giddy with happiness!
ProudPatriot on June 28, 2007 at 4:05 PM
It’s not just a Hispanic problem, although it’s the majority. This is about all peoples entering this country illegally. Overstaying visas and the like, least we forget several of the 911 hijackers were illegally overstaying their student visas. It goes beyond any one nationality or ethnic background. We need to know who is in our country. It’s a different world from when I was an immigrant.
Kini on June 28, 2007 at 4:06 PM
Thank you everyone for your work to get this killed!
xplodeit on June 28, 2007 at 4:08 PM
Spirit of 1776 on June 28, 2007 at 4:05 PM
No need to content that one, history pretty much makes that an established fact.
doriangrey on June 28, 2007 at 4:08 PM
Unseen may take credit for this. IF he agrees to change his NFL affiliation.
:-)
ColtsFan on June 28, 2007 at 4:12 PM
Hey. What happened to my comment? Have I been flagged already?! I’ve been thrown out of nicer places than this I’ll have you know.
Try again.
3 pints o’ Guinness and a Reuben. I’m multicultural.
IrishEi on June 28, 2007 at 4:12 PM
heh! 961. Almost there!
Zetterson on June 28, 2007 at 4:12 PM
I agree, the caveat is “proper education” and with the educaters unions and universities overwhelmingly liberal, I doubt “proper” is what we are going (or have gotten) get.
Obviously with that last sentence I had not gotten proper schooling.
right2bright on June 28, 2007 at 4:13 PM
Free iPhone for number 1,000?
right2bright on June 28, 2007 at 4:14 PM
Besides, if your assumption had any validity you’d expect the African-American population to be equally split and they aren’t.
Poor people vote their pocketbooks. It’s that simple.
TheBigOldDog on June 28, 2007 at 4:01 PM
Have you seen the inner city schools lately. I would not call the people going to them highly educated. The large majority of blacks have not assimilation due to the history of this country. This lack of assimilation and mistrust of our government has kept them uneducated and poor. The ones that have broken from this system have suceed in the same numbers that other races have. Rice, Thomas, and Steele are all good examples.
So if your thinking is correct the Irish/Asian immigrants since 1900 are still voting 100% democratic since they were poor when they came here. To take your point further then immigration should be completely stopped from Western Europe because their socalist programs make the South American ones look like small beans.
Poor people are poor because they are not educated. You do not see many poor college grads (except LIBERAL ARTS majors ).
When you are educated and paying taxes you vote for freedom not liberlism. Unless you have a guilt complex or derive your power from liberlism
unseen on June 28, 2007 at 4:16 PM
LOL
Spirit of 1776 on June 28, 2007 at 4:16 PM
IrishEi on June 28, 2007 at 4:12 PM
multicultural??? you had a corned beef and cabbage samich and three pints of Irish mothers milk, how the h e double toothpicks is that multicultural?
doriangrey on June 28, 2007 at 4:17 PM
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