Instapundit wonders, is it third-party time? Update: Ace wonders, is it Democrat-donation time?
posted at 3:40 pm on June 26, 2007 by Allahpundit
Send to a Friend |
printer-friendly
Well, yeah, as he himself is wont to say. But not in the general election, probably. If, as expected, Thompson is the nominee then it hardly makes sense to vote for an amnesty shill like Mike Bloomberg than a slow-drawlin’, border-enforcin’ dragonslayer like Fred. The real third-party (or primary) challenge should come at the senate level but how to pull that off? It took a herculean effort from the nutroots to push Lamont over the top in the Connecticut Democrat primary and he got gobbled up in the general anyway. And that was only one race. Here you’re talking about a dozen candidates or more, which means you’ll need at least two things: (a) conservative media with a national reach to ride herd daily on the “vote the bums out” movement (ahem) and (b) prominent, well-funded primary challengers who aren’t afraid to risk the party’s wrath by challenging an incumbent. That’s difficult under any circumstances but it’ll be especially difficult next year when, thanks to Iraq, the GOP will be staring at another round of congressional losses and the Dems will be inching towards a filibuster-proof Senate majority. They’re still far enough away from that that they won’t get there next cycle, but the cycle after that? Not impossible.
That’s why I think these threats about how “we’re not going to forget” are a lot of crap, and they know it. If the incumbents squeak through to the general, as most of them will, and foreign policy is on the line, what are you going to do? Stay home? When the left is starting to grumble about withdrawing from Afghanistan now?
The GOP should thank its lucky stars the other side is as weak as it is on jihadism. If it ever turned muscular, they’d be finished.
Update: Think the unthinkable.
You must be logged in to post a comment.
Blowback
Note from Hot Air management: This section is for comments from Hot Air's community of registered readers. Please don't assume that Hot Air management agrees with or otherwise endorses any particular comment just because we let it stand. A reminder: Anyone who fails to comply with our terms of use may lose their posting privilege.
Trackbacks/Pings
Trackback URL
Comments
Although Republicans aren’t looking so great on that one either these days. Many of them claim to be fed up with the war.
Esthier on June 26, 2007 at 3:46 PM
“Fed up with the war”?
To me this means that they are fed up with the American way of life and let’s just give up and let the barbarians take over the world, hell, open the gates and let them in here too.
bbz123 on June 26, 2007 at 3:54 PM
You mean like, say, they suddenly added 12-20 million more voters?
Darksean on June 26, 2007 at 3:57 PM
The obstacles of a legitimate 3rd party are too great from a “grass roots” level (God I hate that phrase). Rather than a split from the bottom up, there needs to be a split from the top down.
Lieberman was praised for his split, why not gather a contingent from both parties to put an “I” beside their name. The media will be forced to cover it.
Then, you have a legitimate 3rd choice.
natesnake on June 26, 2007 at 3:57 PM
It’s not that we need a 3rd party.
We just need to remove the Republican Party and all that it “used” to stand for and replace it with a true Conservative Party (which is what the Republican Party used to be)
Oh, and by the way, you CANNOT get into the Conservative Party just by saying that you are.
Enrollment is limited to true Conservatism which is what this country was founded upon.
HarryStar on June 26, 2007 at 3:58 PM
We need some primary challengers with some malkins to get the grassroots fired up to throw the bums out. I think the state-level party leaders are on our side in this fight.
jdpaz on June 26, 2007 at 3:59 PM
I think the idea that the Iraq war is hurting Republicans is a fallacy. Reps lost Congress last year because of border security and spending.
bj1126 on June 26, 2007 at 4:00 PM
Sure, you risk shattering the conservative line, but considering the choices that elected “conservatives” have made in the past few years, I’m willing to throw caution to the wind. We’re way behind now as it is.
Boy, it’s going to suck removing this elephant tattoo.
natesnake on June 26, 2007 at 4:00 PM
Stay home. Failure in Iraq and Afghanistan is inevitable at this point because of our collective lack of will and complete unseriousness - at least the Democrats are sincere about retreat, so let them have the reins of power and pull out.
Suck it, Republicans.
Enrique on June 26, 2007 at 4:00 PM
It’s not “third-party time”. It’s time for the RINO’s to move over to the other side of the aisle - the one they’ve been fawning over since the mass-bleed in the last election - and give the party back to the conservatives.
Yeah - just when France is begging us to move into Darfur.
thedecider on June 26, 2007 at 4:01 PM
Yeah, this is one of those rare ones where I’m disagreeing with Ace. I don’t think its time to start dropping dime on the Dems.
Bad Candy on June 26, 2007 at 4:02 PM
I’m afraid the third party is already here…it’s the Latino party and we are being sold out because of it…
DCJeff on June 26, 2007 at 4:03 PM
They’re finished anyway. Year from now, political scientists will still marvel at how the Republican party leadership managed to reverse a conservative trend in the United States in just two years: pissing away a 55-45 majority in the Senate and a majority in the House in 2006, then fumbling away even more seast two years later as well as the presidency itself.
They’ve been cowards when it comes to standing up to the donks.
They’ve been arrogant when it comes to standing up to their own base.
If the official donkey party seal is a picture of a crying baby, then the official Republican party seal should be a picture of a lemming right as it’s leaping off the cliff edge.
Spurius Ligustinus on June 26, 2007 at 4:04 PM
I’m going to vote for a few Dems next year. Not for president, but I’m thinking for the Senate, as there is literally no difference between Collins and her opponent on any issue of relevance.
Huh. I’m old enough. Maybe I should run. :-)
Slublog on June 26, 2007 at 4:05 PM
Can’t say I agree with Ace. The D’s are just as bad. Hell, more of them voted for this piece of crap than the R’s. Not saying much, really. Don’t know what the answer is. I voted libertarian when I was in college(mid to late 90s), but I can’t go back to that party. They are on a different page than I am when it comes to the war.
The Hort on June 26, 2007 at 4:06 PM
I’m afraid the third party is already here…it’s the Latino party and we are being sold out because of it…
DCJeff on June 26, 2007 at 4:03 PM
TOUCHDOWN DOLPHINS!!!!!!!!
Joey1974 on June 26, 2007 at 4:07 PM
HarryStar on June 26, 2007 at 3:58 PM
Here, here! “The Conservative Party of America”
Frozen Tex on June 26, 2007 at 4:08 PM
The GOP should thank its lucky stars the other side is as weak as it is on jihadism. If it ever turned muscular, they’d be finished.
Is anybody here impressed with how the GOP is waging the war? I’m not. They seem to just be interested in losing slower.
I think (and I can’t believe I’m saying this) that the argument that the other guy is worse isn’t going to hold a lot of water for me this coming cycle.
Fred on June 26, 2007 at 4:09 PM
With all due respect to Ace, I’ll slit my wrists before I give anything to the Democrats besides my disgust and contempt. Even as pissed as I am at the Republicans.
ReubenJCogburn on June 26, 2007 at 4:11 PM
Remember: The Republican Party of Abraham Lincoln was a third party at one time, too. Driven by a single issue, I might add…
We may lose an election or two, but getting enough support for another party (that is conservative) may possibly, long term, be better for America than the status quo (pulling the lever for squishy RINOs).
But it’s though. I know that.
HYTEAndy on June 26, 2007 at 4:12 PM
Instapundit wonders, is it third-party time?
Yes, A TEA PARTY dig?
soulsirkus on June 26, 2007 at 4:12 PM
I am really afraid of Dems. There is just no way I could lend any kind of support to them. They spit on my brothers in arms, they constantly undercut any measure designed to bring any sort of security to the country and let’s not forget the Dems are guilty of exactly what we are mad at the Republicans for, voting for cloture.
No I want to be in the throw the bums out. People talk about term limits, well folks that is called elections. Don’t rely on the goverment to force them out if you don’t have the stones to vote them out. That is the power you have. If you want to use the power of the goverment to do something you can do then you need to reevaluate your conservative beliefs. I thought being conservative was all about self reliance and less goverment.
LakeRuins on June 26, 2007 at 4:12 PM
Can’t say I agree with Ace. The D’s are just as bad. Hell, more of them voted for this piece of crap than the R’s. Not saying much, really. Don’t know what the answer is. I voted libertarian when I was in college(mid to late 90s), but I can’t go back to that party. They are on a different page than I am when it comes to the war.
The Hort on June 26, 2007 at 4:06 PM
I agree with The Hort…. I have decided not to align myself with the organized Republican Party per se… but I will work to find and support true conservatives that will have the courage to defeat democratic liberals, who, in my opinion, do want me dead based on their values and practices. Third parties serve no one well at least to date.
MNDavenotPC on June 26, 2007 at 4:12 PM
Jesse Ventura sailed away with the governorship in MN, because he was likeable and the 2-party options stank. Now voters hate the dem-heavy senate AND the republicans. Sounds like a shoo-in for an independent.
By the way, I did write to my democrat senator to thank her profusely for her vote today.
Tanya on June 26, 2007 at 4:13 PM
Instead of leaving our party, the party of Reagan and Lincoln, why not kick the RINOs out? Basically, we want millions to abandon ship, because 64 Senate Republicans are RINOs.
amerpundit on June 26, 2007 at 4:14 PM
Agreed. Everything the Democratic Party stands for should, under no circumstances, be directly supported. If they win because I fought for what I believed in (conservatism), however, so be it.
It wouldn’t be my fault if the GOP lost. It’d be the GOP’s fault. I’m the one who stayed true to my principles. Our party leaders didn’t.
HYTEAndy on June 26, 2007 at 4:15 PM
I just can’t bring myself to do it for my two senators(West Virginia).
natesnake on June 26, 2007 at 4:16 PM
I’d be more apt if they actually succeeded.
natesnake on June 26, 2007 at 4:17 PM
Sorry Tanya….. Jesse Ventura was a mistake from the get go. I was an election judge supervisor when he was running. the people who registered for the first time to vote for him were 18 year olds and immigrants…. and I stopped many illegals from trying to vote what we got was 4 years of embarassment and roadblocks. I prefer to pass on a party that gives anyone THAT kind of candidate.
MNDavenotPC on June 26, 2007 at 4:18 PM
It’s term limit time.
ultraloser on June 26, 2007 at 4:19 PM
Donating to Democrats–who love amnesty even more than Bush–seems counterproductive at best.
I’m all for withholding cash from the Republicans who pewed the scrooch, but rewarding a bunch of liberal jackwaddles for selling out their country doesn’t make any sense at all.
If you have that kind of money lying around, send it to bloggers, think tanks, magazines, and politicians who are actually fighting this. You can still send the canceled checks to the NRSC.
see-dubya on June 26, 2007 at 4:19 PM
Oh if we conservatives in Mn have a say the RINOS will be gone as well as the Keith Ellinsons and Amy Klobochars of the state
MNDavenotPC on June 26, 2007 at 4:20 PM
I agree with See-Dub. Use that money to build an alternate media/blogosphere.
Bad Candy on June 26, 2007 at 4:21 PM
We’re getting to that point in time where we need to destroy the village to save it. People need to toughen up and brace for the fact that things are going to get worse. Then they need to be prepared to punish their own at the ballot box, even if that means Democrat dominance for a few election cycles. After all, the Democrats had a strong majority in the four years from 77-81, but out of the ashes of that mess came the best president of the 20th century.
The sooner things hit rock bottom, the sooner we can start building the movement anew. To try to hold onto a seat here or there is just delaying the inevitable while extending the pain.
At some point if we want things to get better, we are going to have to have the courage to stand on priniciple, regardless of the cost. Hanging on for a few scraps at the table in the form of senate seats like those of Grahamnesty and McConnell isn’t going to cut it.
thirteen28 on June 26, 2007 at 4:23 PM
Both (D) senators from my state voted against cloture.
jeffNWV on June 26, 2007 at 4:23 PM
Third Party? Si Se Puede!
ronsfi on June 26, 2007 at 4:23 PM
What if we just used the money for hookers, cocain, and gambling?
Sure it wouldn’t solve anything, but it would make me happy for a little while.
natesnake on June 26, 2007 at 4:24 PM
Absolutely. The best course is to through everything you’ve got at defeating the incumbent in the primary. Stay angry until election time and never forget.
By all means, change your affiliation until that time to “decline to state,” but change it back in time to vote in the primary or else the RINO’s will sail through with their candidolt of choice.
Nosferightu on June 26, 2007 at 4:25 PM
natesnake…heh, that’s funneh.
Bad Candy on June 26, 2007 at 4:26 PM
That would certainly be a more productive use of your money than giving it to the RNC, et al.
thirteen28 on June 26, 2007 at 4:26 PM
I’m not sure exactly what you’re saying here. I was a first-time MN voter when I voted for him, registered that same evening. And I was neither 18 nor an immigrant.
Tanya on June 26, 2007 at 4:27 PM
Natesnake–see, you give the money to the alternate media/blogosphere, and they use it to support hookers, cocaine (make mine coconut-flavored!) and gambling.
That way everyone’s happy. You get to support alternate media, you get to rub the RINO’s noses in it, and alternate media types get hookers, cocaine, and gambling.
see-dubya on June 26, 2007 at 4:28 PM
I smell a platform!!
sunny on June 26, 2007 at 4:28 PM
Maybe that was sarcasm, but what assurance do you have that Fred! will be any such thing? (Well, except for slow-drawlin’, I bet that sticks around.) I remember being excited when GWB claimed to want simplify the tax code. Nothing happened.
If you’re a conservative, you either have to vote for the most hardline conservative you can find, or you have to accept that government will grow largely unimpeded.
rho on June 26, 2007 at 4:28 PM
You’re right rho. We should support the Only Man Who can Save America(TM) like you, right?
Bad Candy on June 26, 2007 at 4:32 PM
Ace may be onto something. Not the give money to Chucky part, but the drop the Republicans and register Independent part. When bunches of Repubs start dropping off the rolls that might just have the desired affect.
conservnut on June 26, 2007 at 4:32 PM
I’m sure this is the Democrats’ wet dream. They’re going to regain power for possibly decades to come, and they didn’t have to get anything accomplished or have a single good idea of their own to do it.
aero on June 26, 2007 at 4:33 PM
Assurance? None. I can’t get in the man’s head. But everything he’s said about the bill makes me think he opposes it.
Allahpundit on June 26, 2007 at 4:34 PM
Nope - it was simple gimick. Then South.
Editor on June 26, 2007 at 4:35 PM
Allah, ignore rho, he’s a Ron Paul crank.
Bad Candy on June 26, 2007 at 4:38 PM
this is why Hillary will be the next president and have a Dem Senate and Dem congress.
there is the fracture in the party with Immigration, on top of that the Paleo-Cons have serious issues with War on Terror(as they are isolationist) as well as Free Trade.
combine all that with the fact that conservatives by nature want to be independent
jp on June 26, 2007 at 4:41 PM
see-dubya, Ace, and AP,
How much money would it take for you to be flush with hookers, cocain, and gambling for one week?
*gets out check book*
Brian and MM,
I’m not trying to be exclusive, but you don’t seem like the hookers, cocain, and gambling types.
natesnake on June 26, 2007 at 4:41 PM
Exactly - we’re too far along the road to socialist hell that there’s no turning back. Face it, folks - in ten years we’ll have single-payer health care and 50% of our paychecks withheld. We’ll be lucky if we don’t have Shar’ia law.
Just don’t vote. There’s no point. Democracy doesn’t work.
Enrique on June 26, 2007 at 4:44 PM
natesnake, by sheer coincidence I just started a business selling hookers, cocaine, and gambling offsets.
ReubenJCogburn on June 26, 2007 at 4:44 PM
You’re greatly overestimating the difference that makes. People care overwhelmingly about immigration, what they see every day.
PRCalDude on June 26, 2007 at 4:44 PM
We’ve got one here?
Esthier on June 26, 2007 at 4:45 PM
Tanya:
Of course there were individuals such as you who registered who were neither 18 or immigrant…. but that doesn’t deflect the truth that in my precinct thats what the majority of the new voters had been.
MNDavenotPC on June 26, 2007 at 4:49 PM
Granted, the GOP leadership has pulled a Toonces the Cat and we’re laying in the wreckage of the cliff below, BUT… perhaps voting the RINOs out and remaining the minority party for the next 4 election cycles will be worth it in the long term.
Short term? We’re screwed.
natesnake on June 26, 2007 at 4:51 PM
Please. If the Dems ever turned muscular they’d be going through exactly what we’re going through now. Their jihadi sympath base (”we hate America just as much as you do Akhbar”) would Nader up quicker than you can say Ned Lamont.
First, this fight isn’t over yet.
Second, making illegals into voters is still gonna take a decade. And not all of them will “come out of the shadows” anyway.
Third, there’s no reason we can’t target this community for Repub recruitment. You don’t have to win them all. 40 percent will be enough if you can increase the black vote by ten percent and pin the tale of weak on defense on the Donks. And that won’t be hard if we fight them for every inch of Iraq retreat ground. Make them earn their retreat. Make them buy it. Then it’s their’s. And the fallout from that is going to make Cambodia look like Candyland.
You people can’t see further than 2 feet in front of you. I’m not surprised you’re angry. I’m not surprised you want to punish those responsible. But you act as if the Soviets just nuked us. Get a grip. This is why Bin Laden says the ragtag bunch of jihadis can beat us. Cause every loss is the END OF THE WORLD to you people. 3500 dead in Iraq is CATASTROPHIC FAILURE UNPARALLELED IN AMERICAN HISTORY. El Presidente Jorge Arbusto is a Mexican agent and the worst. President. Ever. because he’s winning on his legislative agenda the way he always does. Against the odds.
Grow up.
1. Form a plausible plan.
2. Execute the plan.
3. Deal with the consequences.
4. From a new plan.
That’s life. How do you people feed and bathe yourselves? How are you going to send your kids to college? What will you do for retirement? You think long term all the time, just because television and print journalists see politics as a five day game doesn’t mean you have to. Just because they see war as a thirty day game doesn’t mean you have to. Turn off your G**D*** TV and get your head in the long game!
The Apologist on June 26, 2007 at 4:54 PM
Well, stuff like this is how politicians make enemies.
Oh, if they’re on their game and know how to play the media/the general populace, they can weather a storm.
But on a bad day, if they slip up, something like this can ruin them.
So the political games will be played, and those of us with long memories will bide our time.
And those that have made enemies this day, will ask themselves on the day of their defeat: “What did I do wrong?”
And they won’t even remember.
As for funding Democrats? I say find some better Republicans.
Personally, I expect to run for congress in 2015/2016.
(By that time, I should have the experience I need to be truly dangerous.)
Jones Zemkophill on June 26, 2007 at 4:55 PM
That was the Dem game plan in 2006. Not pro war mind you but a conservative platform. A little tough talk on foriegn policy fits the 2006 strategy. Why not repeat it? Blue Dogs can make it very uncomfortable for Republicans come 2008.
Theworldisnotenough on June 26, 2007 at 5:00 PM
You didn’t say “the majority” (or any other qualifier). You said “the people who registered,” period, which includes me.
Don’t snap at me because you don’t proofread your comments.
Tanya on June 26, 2007 at 5:03 PM
I think before abandoning the party we should work towards defeating some incumbent Senators during the primaries. It won’t take too many to scare the pants off the rest. It’s an uphill battle, but probably a better option than leaving the party, for now…
FireDrake on June 26, 2007 at 5:05 PM
We can try. Not enough time to raise money for a lot of them. Hagel’s got a challenger and so does miss lindsey.
PRCalDude on June 26, 2007 at 5:06 PM
Unfortunately I think you’re right. For me in California I must admit it’s easier to say it than to do it.
FireDrake on June 26, 2007 at 5:11 PM
More like 24 (at least with today’s vote).
bernzright777 on June 26, 2007 at 5:17 PM
That’s exactly it. In the short term, we are totally screwed.
The question now becomes “how long do we want to remain screwed?”
The sooner we purge the RINO’s by witholding our votes from them, the sooner we’ll create the conditions where true conservatism can once again be ascendant. If we wimp out at the voting booth and put them back in office, we only extend the pain.
thirteen28 on June 26, 2007 at 5:17 PM
Perhaps instead of dropping out trying to form a whole new outfit we should push more for a coup of sorts. Breaking out and starting from scratch a 3rd party will be near impossible. However a voting block of Conservative Alliance who would agree to vote as a block on certain values, small government, national defense, anti nanny state, America first bills would be better.
The Conservative Bloc could take their own donations and such and put up reps to challenge in the primaries using those funds to push a non-RNC pro conservative challenge over the edge. The money required and effort would be smaller than trying to run in the general. Overtime the Bloc would gain power and domination while at the sometime shielding themselves from the Rhino’s little d idiocy of Bush’s compassionate conservative crap like nanny state and BIG Gov spending.
In 06′ a Conservative Bloc could have taken those Blue Dog dems places or at least had a damm good chance to do so.
It would be allot easier to get some like minded reps join a conservative bloc within the Republican Party instead of all out quit giving up all that infrastructure and money the Republican party has existing. To change a nation you don’t go form a separate nation and invade you make internal coup overtime by supporting your people over the others in the nation until the full coup level is reached.
Thanks to Allah for letting me join the round table in the comments. Long time viewer sinse back in the Allahpundit.com days but first time commmenter.
C-Low on June 26, 2007 at 5:18 PM
I am not a big donor to any political cause — $500 last year, but none will go to a republican again….The senate is a collection of money grubbing political hacks who care nothing about what the American people want or have concerns with — their sense of entitlement is astounding. How they can disregard roughly 75% of the electorate is beyond me, but to have the President who I have defended against the worst of my democract fiends turn into such a sleeze merchant is beyond my reasoning powers. I have lost faith….
jimwesty on June 26, 2007 at 5:19 PM
What happens if Thompson gets the (R) nomination and Giuliani decides to run as an independent?
Big S on June 26, 2007 at 5:22 PM
There already are third-party options, one of which opposes illegal immigration and endorses more restrictive legal immigration policy - the Constitution Party. I’m not a member but it looks a whole lot better than donating to Democrats. I’ll willingly give a Democrat my money when pigs fly and hell freezes over.
Mrs. Happy Housewife on June 26, 2007 at 5:26 PM
No word on this on Rudy, Fred, or Mitt’s website yet. Pretty disappointing - Mitt’s usually lightning fast.
RushBaby on June 26, 2007 at 5:29 PM
What happens if Thompson gets the (R) nomination and Giuliani decides to run as an independent?
The Dem wins, we loose
KBird on June 26, 2007 at 5:32 PM
KBird
Who comes in third?
Big S on June 26, 2007 at 5:42 PM
Big panicky moves accomplish nothing.
Vote out the traitors. Slowly and surely.
Stick to the basic American credo of life, liberty and the pursuit of… hookers, cocaine and gambling?
No, happiness.
(Because STD’s, addiction and poverty do not a happy camper make.)
Target the weasels. Put a bead on their sorry bee-hinds. And send them packing… unfortunately to cushy pensions and plush lobbying posts… but at least they won;t be able to vote for crapzilla like this “Every Border-buster Legal and Free” bill
Easier to purge a few than create anew.
profitsbeard on June 26, 2007 at 5:44 PM
Doesn’t really matter, does it? Second, third–both losers.
Any third-party candidate who attracts even a handful of right-leaning voters away from the official Republican candidate automatically throws the election to the Democrat. Witness how Nader, with less than 2% of the popular vote, has negatively affected the Dems in the past. We’re already fighting an uphill battle in 2008. Pray no right-leaning candidate goes third-party.
Hit your legislators, not the presidential candidates, with this third-party stuff. Third-party candidates are useless in presidential elections except to throw it away for one of the major candidates.
aero on June 26, 2007 at 5:51 PM
I’m mad as hell and I’m not gonna take it anymore … but I’m not about to go off half cocked YET.
There are still some very good conservative Republicans in the party, Presidential candidates, Senators, Congressmen and people who would be good candidates to support to defeat the bums who are selling us down the amnesty highway. I plan to support them.
I also plan to continue to fight this thru the second cloture vote and main vote in the Senate and if needed thru the House votes. I’ll send tea bags, write letters to my local papers, and send calls, messages, faxes, etc to everyone I can.
My message will be that there is no other issue of more importance to me than securing the borders, enforcing existing immigration laws and that any and every candidate who is for this grand ShAmnesty bill is putting their political career at grave risk.
My litmus test for Presidential candidates is how they will verbally oppose this bill and how strenuously. Will Rudy renounce his “sanctuary city” past totally? Will Mitt remove his “en espanol” button on his web site? Will Fred step up and denounce this bill without reservation and call Bush, Graham, McCain etal. the traitors they are for supporting it? If they won’t then I’ll support Hunter and Tancredo to the hilt because at that point they will be the only candidates that are worthy of my support.
I’m not giving up yet, but I’m mad as hell and I’m not going to take it anymore!
Buzzy on June 26, 2007 at 5:56 PM
aero,
Actually, it does matter. Careful, or it might be the “RINOs” who are throwing the right wingers out.
Big S on June 26, 2007 at 5:57 PM
It is 3rd party time. Boosh has ruined the Republican party.It will be easier to start from scratch than try to fix all the current problems. Does anyone still think we can accomplish anything in Iraq with Boosh as the commander-in-chief who will not change the ROE amd let the troops fight without handcuffs? And shamnesty…and and and
Wade on June 26, 2007 at 6:02 PM
They already have
Wade on June 26, 2007 at 6:04 PM
They ARE throwing us out–quite successfully, it would seem. And we would be helping them do it faster if we ran a conservative third-party candidate for president. If we do that, every right-leaning voter will lose.
The ones who say we need to stay with the party and try to force it back to the right rather than try to blow it up and start over are correct. Letting ourselves be driven out of the party or trying to force the RINOs completely out only hands power to the Dems for the very long foreseeable future. We need to regain control of our platform and our elected representatives through the marketplace of ideas, our carefully-placed donations, and through voting. We need another conservative Republican Revolution–but this time, we can’t let them take our leader(s) out so easily, like they did Newt. He was flawed, but we needed him. He drove that movement and held it together. Without him, it crumpled like wet paper and the RINOs took over. We should not have let him go so easily. Whoever is the next Newt–a genuine conservative thinker with real leadership skills and the guts to get things done–needs and deserves our full support. Find that man or woman and give him or her everything you’ve got.
aero on June 26, 2007 at 6:12 PM
Can you say “El Presidente Hillary” ?
ricer1 on June 26, 2007 at 6:13 PM
That worked so well with shamnesty. NOT!
Wade on June 26, 2007 at 6:19 PM
It’s a long-term approach, not suited to promoting or defeating a single bill.
aero on June 26, 2007 at 6:21 PM
Republican reformation is a brewin. Unfortunately the democrats are going to control the house, senate and presidency while it takes place.
BadgerHawk on June 26, 2007 at 6:30 PM
What happens if Thompson gets the (R) nomination and Giuliani decides to run as an independent?
The DemThe Dem, the terrorists, the socialists, Iran, and Mexico, win,weAmerica losesKBird on June 26, 2007 at 5:32 PM
Thought I’d flesh that out a bit.
ReubenJCogburn on June 26, 2007 at 6:35 PM
/me throws a Lindsey Fit
- The Cat
P.S. Ya know, these kinds of things have actually spawned successful 3rd parties in the past. But to pull it off right, we need run off elections.
MirCat on June 26, 2007 at 6:54 PM
Tanya:
You make a good point. My intent was not to snap at anyone, and as a virgin commentator here, I have learned my lesson well. I will dogpaddle away and return the backstroke champion I know I can be. But Mn is still the state where conservatism is not allowed.
MNDavenotPC on June 26, 2007 at 7:34 PM
From your lips to God’s ears, so to speak, but at this point I’m pretty unimpressed with what candidates say. Especially when they’re campaigning.
rho on June 26, 2007 at 8:52 PM
Where has Mr Reynolds been for the past decade? If he read the last two or three books written by Pat Buchanan, he’d know that the GOP abandoned the conservative agenda years ago, the one that gave us a great president like Reagan. I voted for Pat in 2000 when he was a third party candidate, and I’m not one damn bit sorry I did. In ‘04 I voted for the closest thing too him (who was less well known, and I ain’t tellin.’)
Most of the Republicans in the race now are pale imitations of their party’s true legacy, pre-packaged to offend the least number of people. Such wishy-washy weenies; haven’t we had enough of them already?
A lot of Republicans say they’re tired of the war. I can think of a lot of guys who are tired of getting shot at, and as long as they’re away from home, they don’t need a knife in their backs from guys who would get their kids out of having to fight if there were a draft. If my reading of history tells me anything, there are only two ways to fight a war. One is to pound the enemy into total submission before they know what hit them. The other is to stay the hell out of everybody’s business, and draw a line in the sand that the enemy would only cross at their mortal peril. We used to call such a line “secure borders.”
People say that Fred pretends to be an outsider when in fact he’s not. I don’t remember him pretending to be anything, least of all making such a dumb-ass claim. I may not like lobbying all that much, but a man who owns up to it is better than a man who doesn’t, all other things being equal.
Fred’s looking better by the day.
manwithblackhat on June 26, 2007 at 9:22 PM
Fred was saying similar things while he was not a candidate, not an elected official, and apparently not even seriously considering any of the above. So he’s probably the most likely of the candidates to have been telling the unvarnished truth about what he really thinks–at least until very recently. And he hasn’t changed the tone or tenor of his comments since he started testing the political waters again, either. He seems like he’s the real deal as far as conservatism goes.
aero on June 26, 2007 at 9:42 PM
I’m as unhappy about the amnesty bill as anyone, but every time people start talking about third parties, I see the grim shade of Ross Perot laughing in the background. (He’s in black and white, with some bits missing from the image, like the ghosts in “1408″.) I just don’t think the modern American political scene is ever going to provide the proper growth environment for a third party, at least not without a generation of horrific electoral losses for conservatives - and I don’t think we can afford those kinds of losses to socialist opponents, who have both the will to make maximum use of their electoral gains, and a friendly media to egg them on. Parliamentary systems lend themselves to small, intensely focused, ideologically pure parties that fight to make small changes, or form coalitions to make big ones. Our type of representative democracy, along with our enormous media (including the new alternative media), naturally leaves us with two parties that contain squabbling coalitions. At the moment, the Republican coalition is looking shaky, because the amnesty bill has angered virtually every component of that coalition. It would be better for conservatives to focus their efforts on regaining control of that party, and reminding its component factions of what they have in common. Changing voter registration to Independant and withholding donatiosn to the RNC seem like good steps in that direction to me. The best opportunity for meaningful change will be in the primaries, especially if a charismatic presidential candidate appears to rally those primary challengers, and let both the Republican big-money people and the voters know the RINOs are doomed. Even the monied interests that brought you the amnesty bill will not be eager to throw millions behind the shambling political corpse of Lindsey Graham…
Doctor Zero on June 26, 2007 at 9:57 PM
JM2C: I don’t think Rudy’s dumb enough to go for that. IMO, while he might disagree with his fellow candidates, I think he’d rather see a Rep he disagrees with in the WH (within reason… *cough*RonPaul*cough*), rather than risk a Dem as Pres, and he’d probably back Thompson (or any other candidate), rather than try to sabotage the campaign.
Tom Doniphon on June 27, 2007 at 8:17 AM