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Cloture succeeds: Where do we go from here?

posted at 2:05 pm on June 26, 2007 by Bryan
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The “comprehensive immigration” shamnesty is closer to passing through the Senate thanks to 16 Republicans who switched their votes from nay to yea since the last cloture vote. That doesn’t mean it’s the law of the land, or even that it’s out of the Senate yet, but it’s a good indicator that the Senate is listening not to the 75% of Americans who oppose the bill, but to the 25% who support it. And it’s a good indicator that those 16 senators who switched sides got some promise or incentive to do so. Why else would they vote to move forward on a bill that 3 in 4 Americans oppose? Why else would they vote to move forward on a bill that, thus far, the House seems likely to kill? What is going on behind the scenes to move so many democratically elected officials to vote against the express wishes of the voters who put them in office?

The Senate has a couple more votes on the bill set for later in the week; some of the senators who voted for cloture today will try the trick of voting against the bill itself in a couple of days, knowing that they’re pulling a John Kerry “I voted for it before voting against it” move. Some of them even know that some of us are on to the trick, but they don’t care: We’re a tiny slice of the electorate, and by the time they’re up for re-election there will be other issues at play that they believe will insulate them from our wrath. And they may be right about that. Whatever the ultimate fate of the bill turns out to be, by playing this bill in the way that they have, Republicans and Democrats, from Sen. Sam Brownback who wants to be president to Sen. Jim Webb who ran on an anti-illegal immigration platform only to vote in favor of cloture today, have severely undermined basic faith in democracy. We no longer have any reason to believe that a majority of our senators are acting in basic good faith. They’re voting against the will of the public, and they’re smearing the public that opposes their vote. The public has no reason to trust them anymore; they won’t enforce the laws on the books, they’re voting against the majority, and they’re supporting lawbreakers against the law-abiding. And for what? If life weren’t so good and comfortable in the US today, we might be at a genuine revolutionary moment.

But it’s not over. The House, all of which is up for re-election next year, will have to be more sensitive to the public will on this. That’s our chance, maybe our last chance, to kill this bill for good. What the Senate and president support, the House may kill out of its own political self-interest. If they hear from us.

Looking forward, President Bush would be wise to switch parties now. I’m serious. It may be the only way he can salvage anything of Iraq. He has spent enough political capital for three terms. He has isolated himself from the very base that has supported him through thick and thin for years. Not only has he isolated himself from us, he went out of his way to denigrate and smear us over a terrible bill that won’t do what he says it will do and will do what he says it won’t. Like the Senate Republicans, we have no reason to trust him anymore. Thus isolated, he can’t count on any vocal support come September, when the war is up for a vote again. The majority of the country is against him; his own base now has reason to mistrust and even hate him. Sen. Richard Lugar is signalling a Republican revolt on the war, and yet another move by Senate Republicans away from the party’s base that still supports the war even if it’s angry with the administration. The president’s actions since his re-election in 2004 have given the country a Democrat majority in Congress, so he might as well make it official and give the Democrats the White House too, by switching now. That surely wouldn’t solve his problems with the likes of Dennis Kucinich and Nancy Pelosi, but it might confuse everyone long enough for him to keep the war going long enough to at least see the surge through.

Looking ahead to next year, I’m loath to make predictions but it’s hard to see how the party gets fired up for anything. We put senators and presidents in office who despise us and vote against us. They fight us harder than they fight Democrats and even harder than they fight the country’s real enemies. Why get fired up to put them back in office? Why get fired up to put a senator or governor at the head of a doomed presidential ticket? The party needs a man on a white horse, an American Camillus who’ll make things right. But we’re unlikely to get that, even in Fred. It’s possible, but unlikely. Heroes are in short supply these days. We send them to Afghanistan and Iraq and promptly forget them.

So where do we go from here, over the next few days? We have to fight our own party leadership and kill the amnesty bill. This time we have to make sure it’s dead. We have to fight our own president. We’ll have to field candidates to challenge senators like Lindsey Graham from the right, if for no other reason than to remind them that we still have a vote for them to ignore. And we have to do it before the Democrats solidify their hold on Congress next year, and probably take the White House, and move to re-instate the Fairness Doctrine to squelch debate and criticism of them. That’s the coming battle after the 2008 elections: Whether the free speech environment we’ve enjoyed for the past 20 years will remain free or not.

We have some serious times ahead. We’re at real war with a real enemy around the world and we have to fight some heavy rearguard action here at home in the political arena. Now is not the time to rest; it’s the time to count our losses, choose the ground to make our stand, and fight.

Update: There’s a second cloture vote on Thursday.

The second, and final, cloture vote is coming Thursday (that will be to end debate and proceed to a final vote on the bill itself), and only five votes need to shift from Yes to No to stop it. That seems like a good bet, with good candidates for switching including Brownback, Bond, Ben Nelson, Ensign, Burr, and Gregg. If they thought they’d gotten a lot of calls and faxes before,…

Calls and faxes are fine but they don’t seem to be doing any good. We need to get the senators’ attention a little more sharply this time. We’re cooking up an ad to that effect.


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Would the tag from the teabags be enough of a message?

Much better idea. That has a chance of getting delivered.

Snail Mail going to the Capital has to go through this big long screening process these days and even has to be irradiated, etc. It takes weeks from what I understand to get a letter delivered.

TheBigOldDog on June 26, 2007 at 4:02 PM

Where do we go? To the House.

And if they pass this craptastic FrankenBill, we’re all headed down the plug-hole…

mojo on June 26, 2007 at 4:02 PM

gregor, i know the teabag idea sounds wimpy – but i think it has a chance to get more media attention than a protest, and certainly more attention then letters/faxes/emails. Just imagine, truckloads of teabags arriving at the capital daily! If that doesn’t work then yeah I think it may be time to dust off the muskets

Keli on June 26, 2007 at 4:04 PM

This is going to take awhile. I’ll try again in 4 hours.

PRCalDude on June 26, 2007 at 4:07 PM

Ok here is a radical idea since everybody and their mother wants to come here. Let’s spread American citizenship to every person in the world with our constitution as the law of the land. For the life of me I am still unsure why the USA did not make Iraq and Afghanistan take our constitution. I mean it has produced the greatest nation on earth. It has been a force for minority rights, women’s rights, freedom of the press etc. If its good enough for us it should be good enough for them.

unseen on June 26, 2007 at 4:10 PM

I tell you, the FairTax can go a long way towards correcting at least some of this nonsense. With no income tax exemption goodies to hand out, there will be less quid pro quo-ing.

amnistitio delenda est

apostle26 on June 26, 2007 at 4:10 PM

(I’m still catching up on this thread…)

But here’s an idea: All of the conservative blogs and talk radio could start a “Countdown to Reform”, mention on every home page and during each radio program, which will count down the days to the next election where we can throw the bums out. There would be more than one timer, because of the schedule for elections in the Senate.

This would demonstrate our resolve to those who believe that we will forget about this issue.

FloatingRock on June 26, 2007 at 4:11 PM

I understand a lot of this frustration on substance but some of the things I’m reading here would fit right in at HuffPo or DailyKos…the difference is dubious indeed.

Patriot33 on June 26, 2007 at 4:16 PM

We are venting not rioting in the streets. Many comments are borderline to that effect, but still just venting. What it boils down to is this…..nothing could have set our course in stone as much as defeat on this bill. Osama could be dragged behind Marine One down Pennsylvania Ave and we would not be this galvanized.

Use it to our advantage. The ‘Good Ol Boy’ network is about to get punched in the nose. 08 is just around the corner. They think we will forget and forgive. Biggest ‘misunderestimation’ in GOP history.

Limerick on June 26, 2007 at 4:21 PM

Patriot33 on June 26, 2007 at 4:16 PM

How Timely.

Ann Coulter on Howie Carr just now: Suddenly all the liberal hate sites make sense.

TheBigOldDog on June 26, 2007 at 4:22 PM

Patriot33 on June 26, 2007 at 4:16 PM

When the entire American people are saying the same thing then you might want to listen.

unseen on June 26, 2007 at 4:22 PM

No to the new world order.

Yes to the American way.

unseen on June 26, 2007 at 4:24 PM

To vote for this bill is clearly a violation of the oath of office these senators took, so I smell me a pack of traitors. Although, in McCain’s case I’m not surprised. They need to be removed from officed…by the appropriate means deemed necessary.

While attending an award dinner in Hell…
Good evening Senator ____________ (take your pick), we have your table ready. This way please. We have you sitting with several people you have plenty in common with. To your left we have Brutus, Julius Rosenberg, Claus von Stauffenberg, and Iva Toguri D’Aquino (aka Tokyo Rose). To your right we have Benedict Arnold, Klaus Fuchs, and Judas Iscariot.

Brass Pair on June 26, 2007 at 4:29 PM

Bryan,

I think Kyl may have just bought into the Rovian school of thought: this will bring Hispanics into the party. I’m seeing plenty of donors that would benefit from illegal immigration, but most donors are from conservative PACs and the like. Judge for yourself. Seems stupid for him to risk all of the conservative PAC money over much amnesty, but that’s what he’s done. None of the contributors that benefit from illegal immigration were big enough that he couldn’t afford to lose.

PRCalDude on June 26, 2007 at 4:34 PM

We are screwed, blued, and tatooed. In 15 years, that is 3 election cycles, there won’t be a USA. In 15 years, if I’m wrong, you can laugh at me all you want. If I’m right, it won’t be a laughing matter.

cjs1943 on June 26, 2007 at 4:40 PM

like the “matrix” when Neo didn’t make the first jump. this also doesn’t mean anything.

Legions on June 26, 2007 at 4:43 PM

I need a second wind. I was raised as a blue-collar union democrat. In my early twenties I became the ‘maverick’ in my family and switched to republican. I have spent the last seven years defending Mr. Bush and the Republican party through [insert Laura Ingraham's list] to my parents, siblings…. Now I’m thinking I sure must have looked foolish standing there defending them. Switching back to Democrat is unthinkable, a third party is unviable and staying Republican is becoming unacceptable. What to do?

Renae on June 26, 2007 at 4:45 PM

How does one go about protesting in DC? I’ve never been arrested, but I would consider performing one (or more) bodily functions in my senators office, preferably on their desks.

oldleprechaun on June 26, 2007 at 4:47 PM

What to do?

Renae on June 26, 2007 at 4:45 PM

Take the party back. The only answer. 3rd Party = Parlimentary deadlock and compromise on everything. Take it back, kick out the ‘clic’.

Limerick on June 26, 2007 at 4:49 PM

Third, the House, the people’s house, has not increased its number of representatives since 1904. Our population in 1904 was 100 million. It is now 300 million. This means that our vote is 2/3 less powerful today then it was in 1904. The people’s house is no longer the people’s house.

Fourth, 536 people controlling 2.9 TRILLION dollars is absurd. Power corrupts as we see with our own eyes.

So you take all of these together, incumbency, less power of the people, and corruption and we get a government that is borderline Empire.

unseen on June 26, 2007 at 3:50 PM

What’s the word on the tip of my tongue? Oh yeah, oligarchy.

Dave Shay on June 26, 2007 at 4:49 PM

I’m not leaving the republican party – the republican party left me. The new crop of republicans will hopefully listen to us if they want to be elected. I refuse to vote democratic, especially not to prove a point. Thats what many voters did in the 06 election and look at this congress we were rewarded with. Worst Congress Ever

Keli on June 26, 2007 at 4:55 PM

I left this over at AoS –

DU posters occasionally call for donations to reward the DNC with amounts to end in specific numbers of pennies to let the DNC know where the funds were generated and to act as some sort of lefty symbolism.

Instead of donating to the DSCC out of spite, donate $0.86 to the RNC to remind them of the last amnesty and of the fact that they are about to get 86’d out of office by their base. It sends a message to the GOP that everyone that is donating will not donate again (stick) and that should the GOP come to its senses, then they would have a nice donor list to solicit later (carrot).

The GOP would need to know why they were getting a bunch of sub $1 donations and they would have to get a lot of them for this to have an impact. As an added bonus, should amnesty come to be, we all know that the RNC will be calling/mailing for donations. For the mere price of $0.86, we will all get to give the RNC a piece of our mind via the phone or tape that postage paid envelope to a cinder block.

Tea bags will just be tossed. Here in the state of WA, there are no party affiliations to be changed. There are no Republicans to vote out of office.

The GOP will have to process a lot of paperwork for each small donation. The names and numbers will be added to the donor lists and will be shuffled from the national level to the state and local parties. The GOP does not care to hear from us now, but they will be calling us when they want our money. They are so inept that they will not remove the obvious protest donations from their donor lists and will continually try to contact people that are very angry with their actions. Politicians sure as hell care about funding their campaigns.

Besides, you don’t even need to step away from the computer to $.86 the GOP.

rw on June 26, 2007 at 4:56 PM

Keli on June 26, 2007 at 4:55 PM

There is the answer folks. TAKE IT BACK. You control the member list.

Limerick on June 26, 2007 at 4:58 PM

http://www.opensecrets.org/politicians/indus.asp?CID=N00005178&cycle=2004

Christopher S. ‘Kit’ Bond is a top Senate recipient from the following industries for the 2003-2004 election cycle:
Coal mining (#1)
Agricultural Svcs (#2)
Auto manufacturers (#2)
Beer, Wine & Liquor (#2)
Defense Aerospace (#2)
Trucking (#2)
Mining (#3)

Things that make you go, hmmmm….

Dave Shay on June 26, 2007 at 5:00 PM

rw on June 26, 2007 at 4:56 PM

Better Idea would be 2 Cents… $.02… that way there is NO way for them to profit from it, it takes more to process the 2 cent check, than they would get… and you’d still get on the rolls…

Romeo13 on June 26, 2007 at 5:01 PM

Where do we go from here?
To hell if we don’t change our ways.

TheSitRep on June 26, 2007 at 5:09 PM

North Carolina Senate has just passed a bill that will give the its electoral votes to the person that wins the national popular vote.

This is a major power grab. This is an effort to destroy the last of federalism. We are losing our rights before our eyes and yet nothing is done. How much can we take? I am about at the breaking point.

throw the Bums out in 2008. From the state and federal houses.

unseen on June 26, 2007 at 5:11 PM

Take the party back. The only answer. 3rd Party = Parlimentary deadlock and compromise on everything. Take it back, kick out the ‘clic’.

Limerick on June 26, 2007 at 4:49 PM

I agree. My senators however are Coburn and Inhofe who I will continue to support but as far as the national party I am feeling pretty powerless. Not to worry I am an optimist at heart- just needed a little pity party.

BTW I am new, thanks for opening registration.

Renae on June 26, 2007 at 5:11 PM

Better Idea would be 2 Cents… $.02… that way there is NO way for them to profit from it, it takes more to process the 2 cent check, than they would get… and you’d still get on the rolls…

I suppose you could call it the Giving the GOP your $.02 campaign, but I still think $.86 the GOP better conveys the anger. Visa and MC agreements would prohibit the GOP from refusing small donations, wouldn’t they?

rw on June 26, 2007 at 5:11 PM

Dave Shay on June 26, 2007 at 5:00 PM

Money is the root of all evil.
Outrage by Dick Morris does a great job of showing this.

aclark on June 26, 2007 at 5:12 PM

I think it is high time We The People invoke our own version of a Scorched Earth Policy. We make sure we remember the names of every single Republican (RINO) senator who voted this Shamnesty Bill in, and come time for them for re-election (and this goes out especially to the good people of Mississippi who are now obviously feeling more than a little betrayed by their hopefully soon-to-be-former senator, Mr. Trent Lott), we make sure that each and every one of these clowns who turned their backs on the people who got them into office in the first place gets voted out of their collective ears, regardless of who they are, how long they have been in the Senate, how much so-called good they have done, VOTE THEM OUT! And then replace them with honest, hardworking CONSERVATIVE men and women who will be in Washington strictly as representatives of the people who got them there to begin with. We have been betrayed by these turncoat rascal RINOs long enough! It is now time for them to go, before they are allowed to do any more damage!

pilamaye on June 26, 2007 at 5:13 PM

Why is our “comfort” level being considered as a reason why a revolution is not in order today, and yet, our future comfort is being totally ignored?
If this bill passes, is there something that can be done, with our FUTURE lawmakers, to get it retracted?
I am so at a loss for words here.

ataloss on June 26, 2007 at 5:15 PM

I hear tar and feathers might be making a comeback as the dress of choice in washington. Anyone else hear that?

unseen on June 26, 2007 at 5:15 PM

I hear tar and feathers might be making a comeback as the dress of choice in washington. Anyone else hear that?

unseen on June 26, 2007 at 5:15 PM

Indeed

aclark on June 26, 2007 at 5:19 PM

Money is the root of all evil.
Outrage by Dick Morris does a great job of showing this.

aclark on June 26, 2007 at 5:12 PM

Have they somehow converted contributions to personal income? It seems like most of the contributions are from lawyers. There must be additional contributions going on on the side.

PRCalDude on June 26, 2007 at 5:20 PM

Let’s send some Bush Gringo dollars to the NRSC:

Sergei on June 26, 2007 at 5:20 PM

We are screwed, blued, and tatooed. In 15 years, that is 3 election cycles, there won’t be a USA. In 15 years, if I’m wrong, you can laugh at me all you want. If I’m right, it won’t be a laughing matter.

cjs1943 on June 26, 2007 at 4:40 PM

Yay, just in time for my 30th birthday.
Adds a little fuel to a mid-life crisis.

aclark on June 26, 2007 at 5:20 PM

In the future I will only donate directly to candidates. No more party money spent for the Republicans.

Mojave Mark on June 26, 2007 at 5:20 PM

Greg, we have a communication problem in our Blog, and that’s that the uninformed is always primed to suck the juice out of good public discourse by disingenuously declaring their offensive solutions to a particular matter.

We desperately need solutions prompted by good judgment and common sense. If you want to continue with your delusional suggestions, may I suggest you explore the Daily KOS as a medium to vent your anger.

Ghostbuster on June 26, 2007 at 5:21 PM

Have they somehow converted contributions to personal income? It seems like most of the contributions are from lawyers. There must be additional contributions going on on the side.

PRCalDude on June 26, 2007 at 5:20 PM

Yah, many of them put their spouses on the campaign payroll.
I wonder where the contributions go?

aclark on June 26, 2007 at 5:22 PM

One more step closer to the dream of a new country!

CanAmeriMexico

Isn’t that what these politicians like Ted Kennedy want. He a Spanish language station the other day

“…we are not going to let you down, my friend”

I don’t think he was talking about American citizens

PB

Planet Boulder on June 26, 2007 at 5:23 PM

I supported Bush since he became President–I did so in very Liberal work and social environments. I delivered several talks to many people that actually made them reconsider their knee jerk negative reactions to Bush, Iraq and Conservatism.

I was sad to now learn that what I had so vigorously defended was represented by a scoundrel who labels me a bigot for my simple belief in Law.

My support was misguided. I will not vote Republican in ‘08.

Montana on June 26, 2007 at 5:25 PM

My support was misguided. I will not vote Republican in ‘08.

Montana on June 26, 2007 at 5:25 PM

Just vote smart

aclark on June 26, 2007 at 5:27 PM

We must fight back at all levels. First and most important is the children. We MUST teach our children and all other children American history. We must explain what a meltingpot is and why it is important to keep it. We must require our children to learn civics. We must require our LOCAL School boards to teach these things to the general population. This is a multigenerational thing. Since the early 1990’s there has been an effort to disown the American people of their rights, and their duty. We must start today with our children so that if the worse happens (which we see the hand writing on the wall) they will still understand what it means to be an American.

Yes we must educate and inform our children and our citizens.

unseen on June 26, 2007 at 5:29 PM

…I’m not advocating hanging…

Gregor on June 26, 2007 at 3:07 PM

Yeah, me neither. After all, hanging is SO “English.” (You’re supposed to laugh.)

History suggests that revolutions RARELY “turn out” like the one that began in the English colonies in the 1770s. More frequently, they (revolutions, that is) turn out like the one in Paris in the 1780s. A very messy business indeed. In that case, the revolution didn’t end until the revolutionaries finally turned-on themselves — where they met the same fate as their original oppressors (viz. the guillotine). So before you advocate revolution, you had better “count the cost.”

CyberCipher on June 26, 2007 at 5:30 PM

I’m going to continue to send emails to my two idiot Senators here in Minnesota, not that they particularly car what a rube like me thinks…but maybe it will make me feel better! Then I’m going to make sure that I work my tail off during the next election to get REAL conservatives elected! Not these fakes that the RNC have been foisting on us like George Bush and his crowd! We need get back to our roots…low taxes, low spending, small government, less regulation, strong national defense, secure our borders and no more letting punks like N Korea and Iran look like “players”…they aren’t!

sabbott on June 26, 2007 at 5:33 PM

To PRCalDude:

I’m not sure what you think of Instapunk, but he makes a good point. We need to go after the donors to these sub-moronic congresscritters. They are the only thing the Bushies and the Senators listen to. Why else are they in such a rush to pass this bill? It’s because locals have started taking immigration enforcement into their own hands. The businesses don’t like it. They want cheap, taxpayer subsidized labor. We need to know who donated to these people (the puppetmasters). I think we’re just spinning our wheels calling. We’ve been calling for well over a month now with no discernible results.

…is an excellent idea!

So how do we find out who these donors are? I, for one, will definitely participate in that!!!

leepro on June 26, 2007 at 5:36 PM

Understandably we’ve been busy with our own problem, but it’s been a bad week for the UK too. Seems Blair has sold his country down the river to the EU just as Bush & Co are selling out ours.

Right now I got a case of Putin-envy. He at least is an old fashioned patriot who puts his country first. I understand he’s free in 08. I think I;ll write him in.

dhimwit on June 26, 2007 at 5:38 PM

Here’s a couple of suggestions instead of teabags, teabag tags, etc.;

1. Send the end flap off a box of your favorite brand of tea. Among other things, you can write a (polite) note on the back.

2. Send a store or manufacturer’s coupon for your favorite brand of tea. With the UPC strip and the number above it marked over with black ink. That way, they can’t use it, or even redeem it for its cash value (generally about 1/3 of a cent).

Either one will get through their filters quite effectively- and make the point very lucidly.

cheers

eon

eon on June 26, 2007 at 5:38 PM

So before you advocate revolution, you had better “count the cost.”

CyberCipher on June 26, 2007 at 5:30 PM

We do not call for a revolution.
The revolution has been going on since the fall of the USSr. Bush 41 spoke of a new world order. This is what he was talking about.

Making our leaders follow our laws not those of the world community is not a revolution but a reawakening. Yes the elites won’t like it, it may cause some economic hits, but in the end we the human population will be better for it. We must denounce all forms of tyranny.

The USA has been a force for good in the world since its founding because it turned its back on tyranny and rule by minority. We can not let all those that died for this idea to be in vain. We have a duty to protest, to change our government when it no longer promotes the safety and security of its citizens, We are not just world consumers we are citizens of the USA. And that means something whether the Senate or President things so or not.

When was the last time you heard the President or the Senate talk about CITIZENS? I hear about the American people, I hear about the American taxpayer, and I hear about the American consumer. i hardly ever hear about the AMERICAN CITIZEN. Because words mean things and the word citizen has a meaning different from all the above.

unseen on June 26, 2007 at 5:44 PM

Mitch McConnell (R-KY) Senate Minority Leader
Open Secrets Data

It seems that these are the primary industries feeding Mitch’s political fortunes:

1) Finance/Insurance/Real Estate
2) Miscellaneous Business
3) AgriBusiness and Healthcare

Gotta love “Miscellaneous Business”. Nice bland name. Who might those people be I wonder:

1 National Beer Wholesalers Assn
2 National Restaurant Assn
3 Wal-Mart Stores
4 Anheuser-Busch
5 General Electric

Pilgrim on June 26, 2007 at 5:45 PM

Instead of a march on Washington, with everyone having to leave home, here are two other ideas:

1.How about a general strike? That is, we pick a day and EVERYBODY stays home–no work gets done. Instead of shutting down the government, we shut down the whole country. Just imagine, a day without legals!

2. If our government wants to allow illegals to get away with breaking the law, why don’t the rest of us legals choose one particular law to break. My suggestion would be not paying our taxes on April 15 when due, but a day later. Or, since that is some time away from now, how about EVERYONE changing their withholdings at work to 10 dependents. That will make the well run dry real fast. Nothing gets the attention of the weasels in Washington faster than $$

JiangxiDad on June 26, 2007 at 5:47 PM

unseen on June 26, 2007 at 5:44 PM

amen

aclark on June 26, 2007 at 5:47 PM

How appropriate:

http://www.bostontea.com

Oh, I am so tempted to order online and have them ship to my Yea-voting Senator’s office.

Too bad $2.99 is the cheapest item I could find on their site.

Dave Shay on June 26, 2007 at 5:49 PM

Bush is a traitor to his party, his base and finally his country. Impeach the dumb bastard and jail him. As for the Senators that side with him, we can have a separate trial for them to but the wall they can all share as the .50 cal let loose.

Do we wonder why most of the dictators believe that the democracies are weak. The constitution needs to be amended so that the people can recall Senators that are out of bounds and folks they’re really far out on this one.

Since guns are forbidden in the capital, perhaps we can surround it with a siege.

CyberCipher, let the chips fall what do we have to lose, certainly not our citizenship rights, we already lost them years ago

warpmine on June 26, 2007 at 5:50 PM

We desperately need solutions prompted by good judgment and common sense.

Ghostbuster on June 26, 2007 at 5:21 PM

Translated …

War is never the answer. Everything can always be solved through dialog.

Sounds familiar, doesn’t it? And the liberalization/pacification of Americans is almost complete.

Gregor on June 26, 2007 at 5:50 PM

In the age of the internet is money still the life blood of politics? When a nobody can produce a 30 second ad that gets 100,000’s of views, when things can go viral in a nanosecond and when a word spoken in anger can be spread to destroy a Senate campaign. Is money that important?

Yes money was important because of TV. Now not so much. Look at Fred he is first/second in the polls without spending a dime. Is money still that important.

And if it isn’t does that mean that all those Senators are voting for the wrong reasons on the wrong issues. Can people still buy elections?

2008 and 2010 and 2012 will be different elections and all those voting for this bill will not be able to bury their vote in the timecapsule of distance. It is a new age.

unseen on June 26, 2007 at 5:53 PM

What is the real estate angle? It’s huge.

PRCalDude on June 26, 2007 at 5:54 PM

Pilgrim on June 26, 2007 at 5:45 PM

I’ve heard that Anheuser Busch at least only accepts American made products for their bottling/canning needs, even though they are not as cheap.

The teabag flap would be a good idea but then we wouldn’t be able to send nearly as many.

Also, I went to the March for America on a SATURDAY and there was still a pathetic turnout. Less than 100 people. If we are going to protest, we are going to need a heck of a lot more people than that. Interesting though that PRO-illegal immigration rallies produce 1000s?? Why were they not at work again, since allegedly that’s all they do?

hollygolightly on June 26, 2007 at 5:55 PM

This is interesting. Do realtors want a ton of people coming here? You bet.

PRCalDude on June 26, 2007 at 5:57 PM

So before you advocate revolution, you had better “count the cost.”

CyberCipher on June 26, 2007 at 5:30 PM

And the cost of doing nothing? How long will it take for us to end up like those in Afghanistan, afraid to speak in the privacy of our own homes in fear that a band of Taliban/La Raza will show up and execute our children?

So, I guess due to fear, our children are condemned to a life living in Aztlan.

Keep sending those faxes and BBQing with your children. You can tell them you did your part.

Gregor on June 26, 2007 at 5:57 PM

1.How about a general strike? That is, we pick a day and EVERYBODY stays home–no work gets done.

JiangxiDad on June 26, 2007 at 5:47 PM

That’s a great idea! Possibly the best suggestion yet. Unfortunately, you’ll find most Americans are not willing to stay home for a single day of work.

It’s just too much to ask.

That last line was sarcasm.

Gregor on June 26, 2007 at 6:01 PM

Man, talk about taxation without representation!

Start getting used to the words “TERM LIMITS”! Until we end the era of the “professional politician”, nothing is going to change.

GOD BLESS AMERICA!
paratisi

paratisi on June 26, 2007 at 6:07 PM

Man, talk about taxation without representation!

What to do next? Keep repeating the phrase “TERM LIMITS”! Until we end the era of the “professional politicians”, nothing will change. So remember TERM LIMITS, TERM LIMITS, TERM LIMITS and don’t forget TERM LIMITS!

GOD BLESS AMERICA!
paratisi

paratisi on June 26, 2007 at 6:12 PM

Oops, sorry for the double post.

GOD BLESS AMERICA!

paratisi on June 26, 2007 at 6:13 PM

I’m going have all my Mexicans stay home when the word is given.

That’s sarcasm, I employ nothing but Americans. They work slower but they feed their families who live here.

warpmine on June 26, 2007 at 6:16 PM

Bryan, you are right to suggest that Bush should parties. As a matter of fact I wrote to my senator (Kyle) telling him he should switch. I am a proud Republican and will stay on but I have a memory like an elephant. I will not vote for Kyle or his ilk again.

SIJ6141 on June 26, 2007 at 6:24 PM

thanks to 16 Republicans who switched their votes from nay to yea

I would like to know what bribes…ah sorry I mean “earmarks” these senators were promised. Or did rules which makes that info secret already go into effect?

Resolute on June 26, 2007 at 6:32 PM

From the John Birch Society:

Additionally, the Kennedy amendment attached to S. 1348 (S. Amdt. #1150) that called for the acceleration of the Security and Prosperity Partnership of North America, is still included in Section 413 of S. 1639:

It is the sense of Congress that the United States and Mexico should accelerate the implementation of the Partnership for Prosperity to help generate economic growth and improve the standard of living in Mexico, which will lead to reduced migration…

Just keep saying it over and over …

There is no NAU. There is no NAU. There is no NAU.

Followed by …

I just don’t get it. I just don’t get it. I just don’t get it.

Gregor on June 26, 2007 at 6:53 PM

per redstate.

house GOP rejects Senate immigration bill. 114-23

good news

unseen on June 26, 2007 at 7:00 PM

JiangxiDad on June 26, 2007 at 5:47 PM
1.How about a general strike? That is, we pick a day and EVERYBODY stays home–no work gets done. Instead of shutting down the government, we shut down the whole country. Just imagine, a day without legals!

ROFL ‘A Day Without Legals’
Brilliant!

Keli on June 26, 2007 at 7:01 PM

Reminds me of ,

Mr Smith Goes To Washington

But in this matter, unlike the movie, there is no self-destructing Claude Rains to save the day. Evidently the Amnesty Establishment has co-opted a critical core of Senators to allow consideration of the Bill: Senators who feel insulated by constituency or time.
1. Still, it is a good thing to fight the vulnerable Senators up for re-election in 2008, and make them pay.
2. Meanwhile encourage a grass-roots lobby of the vulnerable Congressional Representatives of both Parties, all of whom stand for election in 2008. They may be the last best hope to kill the Bill.
The House usually wins.

williars on June 26, 2007 at 7:05 PM

Just imagine, truckloads of teabags arriving at the capital daily! If that doesn’t work then yeah I think it may be time to dust off the muskets

Keli on June 26, 2007 at 4:04 PM

The only problem with the teabag idea is that it was already tried when people were sending bricks in 2006.

F15Mech on June 26, 2007 at 7:11 PM

Time to see if the Dems are the party of the people. Will Nancy be able to get all Blue Dogs to vote for this bill when 80% of America hates the bill. With only 23 Reps on board in the House the Bill will have a Dem face on it. In Bold. It will stop being a Rep/Bush bill and become a Elite/socialist bill. The House GOP still has some backbone.

unseen on June 26, 2007 at 7:13 PM

The USA has been a force for good in the world since its founding because it turned its back on tyranny and rule by minority.

unseen on June 26, 2007 at 5:44 PM

Agreed.

CyberCipher, let the chips fall what do we have to lose, certainly not our citizenship rights, we already lost them years ago

warpmine on June 26, 2007 at 5:50 PM

Not to mention our moral compass (which we lost as well).

So, I guess due to fear, our children are condemned to a life living in Aztlan.

Gregor on June 26, 2007 at 5:57 PM

Sorry to rain on your revolution, but the pessimist in me says that our children are already doomed. I share your outrage. I wouldn’t necessarily fault any of you for your Jeffersonian zeal and enthusiasm for the French revolution. But this is one of the few situations where I will side with John Adams. Adams predicted that our little experiment in democracy would ONLY work IF the constituents of the American colonies remained a God-fearing, upright, and moral people. It not so many words, he as much as predicted that the American democracy would FAIL if the people lacked integrity or conducted themselves in an immoral fashion. Of course, Adams was a gloomy Calvinist, while the optimistic deist Jefferson championed education as the pancea for all of the ills of society.

Guess what? In this instance, I think Adams was correct. The fundamental problem that we face is NOT a systemic problem with our form of government. The problem that we face is that the vast majority of the people that I see around me are just plain rotten to the core (immoral). No amount of revolutionary zeal is going to fix that problem (unless, of course, you plan to kill every human being within the American borders).

But then again, I tend to be pretty pessimistic about things.

CyberCipher on June 26, 2007 at 7:14 PM

I suggest that we exercise our first amendment rights.

http://frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=28870

:)

mgtanner on June 26, 2007 at 7:16 PM

one car breaks down in rush hr. and major traffic jam. wait till 20million get out there with the junkers.that will slow down the Elite’s stock holdings. If they put me out of a job and home hell I’ll pop a hood in protest.

Legions on June 26, 2007 at 7:24 PM

CyberCipher on June 26, 2007 at 7:14 PM

The problem is not with immorality.

The problem is that the House stopped growing in 1904. Up until then the House grew with the population. This was the founders wish. In fact, the first article in the bill of rights still not ratified was to increase the house as a function of population. Has the population grew so too the House.

For whatever reason the House put a cap on members at 435. This has caused untold problems in the last 100 years. Less people running for the House, less poor and middle class in the House, less voice to the people, more bubble forming in Washington. The answer is simple, ratify the first article of the bill of rights. 11 states have ratified it. We need 3/4ths of the states and the House will change a great deal and so too our government.

unseen on June 26, 2007 at 7:25 PM

As a side note, most of the states that have not ratified it are RED STATES. the Blue states ratified it before they turned blue. It’s a win/win

unseen on June 26, 2007 at 7:27 PM

Quit paying the unlawful tax and the fed will stop dead. Can’t throw us all in prison and they haven’t the man power to grab my stuff. (It’s secure anyway) Back an animal into the corner and your not going to see pleasant behavior.

warpmine on June 26, 2007 at 7:28 PM

This will also be the death blow to the two party system. A triple win/win/win. 1500-6000 reps in the House. How could they all be bribed? How could all be career politicians?

unseen on June 26, 2007 at 7:30 PM

unseen on June 26, 2007 at 7:25 PM

Call me old-fashioned, but I also think we should return to having the Senators chosen by their state and not by a popular vote in the state.

The legislative branch was supposed to have two sets of representatives – 1 body which represented the people (the House) and 1 body which represented the states (the Senate). It was never supposed to be two sets of popularly elected representatives.

Of course, at this point, it seems that we have 2 groups, neither of which represent the state nor the people.

JadeNYU on June 26, 2007 at 7:37 PM

Agreeeeeeeed.

Federalism works. Increasing the House and letting Senators be chosen by the state would rip K street asunder and return government to the people. It would also cause a groundswell in local races IMO.

unseen on June 26, 2007 at 7:43 PM

I totally agree with JadeNYU but if we cannot return then we should limit each Senator’s term to a three year cycle 1/3 up for election every third year. This might help out to get more participation or perhaps less. Either way it would help.

warpmine on June 26, 2007 at 7:44 PM

Also all of this could be done without rebellion, blood in the streets etc.

For the House increase we do not even need the help of the Federal government. It is all in the States hands.

unseen on June 26, 2007 at 7:44 PM

The Republicans want cheap labor.

When you replace father and son framing crews working at $14/hour on all those new homes with $7/hour unskilled, illegal immigrants what you end up with is BILLIONS. No exaggeration fellas, BILLIONS. You and I can both be ignored for a very long time in exchange for BILLIONS. And that’s just the homebuilding industry. As sad as it may seem what would save America right now would be a true blue Democratic leader from the old school to step in and sing out like Arlo Guthrie about the new republican/corporate abuse of unskilled labor. But, we won’t get that because:

The Democrats want cheap votes.

And they think they’ll get them with all these illegals. Its cheap for because the American taxpayer will foot the bill. So the two parties have actually aligned in a very sinister and greedy way.

The Mexicans want it for nothing.

Reality check: No one is doing this to look out for the Mexicans. NO ONE.

It has been my experience that the majority of all illegal immigrants are up here taking advantage of all our benefits without having to pay any of the liabilities. No rocket science here. When someone can head up north to double his wages, risk is outweighed by reward. When you ask these illegals “Why are you here”, its becasue they can earn much more, in a shorter time. They use these gains to build up their businesses (yes, their businesses) and their homes much faster. And in the process, they get all of the benefits without any of the liabilities: free child delivery, post natal care, free schooling, no income taxes, no social security taxes, no health care costs etc. etc. You and I foot the bill. (Or, should I say, you and I subsidized the cheap labor pool. Not that cheap for us. Did I pay less for melons after we switched to illegals or did the price stay the same?)

I know I am not the first to wonder then, Do any of these people really want to become legal? Why? So that they can start to pay federal income taxes, social security taxes, health care insurance, car insurance and oh by the way in times of declared war, they get drafted!!!! I am at a loss to understand why any of these people want to go down this “American” road? If they did all go down this path, businesses would have to start paying them more to balance the withholdings. No win win there. Struggling with this one.

The People.

Who’s to blame, WE ARE. We THE PEOPLE. For more things than this.

From what I remember the President has actually very few duties. But because we are all just too “busy” we generally have choosen to focus in on the President not the House. Its easy, its just one person. We don’t have to work at knowing our Congressman or Senator, tracking all the bills that impact our daily lives and, those pesky elections that keep coming around. One person to blame or honor, easy.

The Constitiution set it up so that our representatives run the place. I know we all know this but, not seeing to it that the country runs the way the people want is what causes all of our problems. They really don’t think we know better.

How is it that Congress (Republican or Democratic it doesn’t matter) only achieved 30% of their job between Jan 1st and Memorial Day? “How long would you last in your job if you only completed 30% of what you are supposed to do?” Not long.

Time to get our country back.
Let’s roll indeed.

redriver59 on June 26, 2007 at 7:47 PM

This is my first post, I am really angry at the President and the Senators that have pushed this amnesty bill. How can they in any way shape or form send troops to war to defend this great nation while at the same time they leave the borders wide open for an attack on the US. This bill offers the AMERICAN citizens nothing but higher taxes and chaos. Amnesty was tried and failed. I like the tea bag suggestion, i will deliver them to the local offices of my soon to be former Sen Burr. My days in the republican party have ended. When will the elected leaders stop rewarding lawbreakers instead of the citizens who put them there.

kathleen on June 26, 2007 at 7:52 PM

I have to say I’m blown away by the passion of some of the newbie commenters. My kind of peeps..! Welcome fellow err.. teabaggers..!! lol

RobertCSampson on June 26, 2007 at 7:54 PM

Here is the words of the article:

Article the first … After the first enumeration required by the first article of the Constitution, there shall be one Representative for every thirty thousand, until the number shall amount to one hundred, after which the proportion shall be so regulated by Congress, that there shall be not less than one hundred Representatives, nor less than one Representative for every forty thousand persons, until the number of Representatives shall amount to two hundred; after which the proportion shall be so regulated by Congress, that there shall not be less than two hundred Representatives, nor more than one Representative for every fifty thousand persons

The article is still outstanding and has been ratified by the following states:

NJ,
MD
NC
SC
NH
NY
RI
PA
VA
VT
KY

unseen on June 26, 2007 at 7:55 PM

mgtanner

Laurie Morrow is my new heroine. Thanks for the great link!

RushBaby on June 26, 2007 at 7:56 PM

Come on now Unseen, the Civil War was supposed to be a small skirmish that we could watch from our unbrella covered chairs. I still say if those traitors want the illegals then they should board them on their dime. Let them cough up their money for infrastructure upgrades. Certainly Kerry and Reid can afford it. The government is way out of control.

warpmine on June 26, 2007 at 7:57 PM

[Tin Foil Hat]

I wonder if the Dems/RINOs are voting as an act of bi-partisanship.

If this bill passes there will be no doubt that Bush is the worst President in history where before it was a toss up between Carter/Nixon.

[/Tin Foil Hat]

Sorry had to vent, time for another glass of Patron.

F15Mech on June 26, 2007 at 7:58 PM

warpmine on June 26, 2007 at 7:57 PM

The government is way out of control.

That’s what I am trying to say. With 27 States ratifying this article the government becomes that OF the people, For the People again. A very simple, somewhat easy way to gain control of the government from the elites back to the people.

unseen on June 26, 2007 at 8:00 PM

I have to say I’m blown away by the passion of some of the newbie commenters. My kind of peeps..! Welcome fellow err.. teabaggers..!! lol

RobertCSampson on June 26, 2007 at 7:54 PM

Yeah. Unseen is a ruby on the beach.

Not a fellow teabagger though. A commenter at Ace’s left this straight-to-the-point remark:

Sorry folks but symbolism is utterly stupid. It’s also the irrelevant threat of the absolutely powerless. So if you really want to engage in symbolism then go right ahead. Many people won’t get it. Those that do will be impressed for about 10 seconds. Why? Because people with power don’t resort to symbolism.

RushBaby on June 26, 2007 at 8:07 PM

F15Mech on June 26, 2007 at 7:58 PM

Tanqueray. *clink*

RushBaby on June 26, 2007 at 8:14 PM

RushBaby on June 26, 2007 at 8:07 PM

Sorry if I’m posting too much. I am just tired of watching my country sold down the river by special interests. I think information is the best weapon to fight that battle. Civics and history tend to have the answers we are searching for IMO.

If I’m overboard just let me know. I’ll stand down for awhile….:P

unseen on June 26, 2007 at 8:14 PM

unseen on June 26, 2007 at 8:14 PM

OMG – I was not being sarcastic, no, not one tiny bit. I love your comments. You and others here have added a richness to our conversation and I singled you out because your words spoke directly to my heart. O please do not stand down. You have a new home.

RushBaby on June 26, 2007 at 8:25 PM

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