This transformation of people into animals, once again, this strikes me as (what Freud termed) primary process thinking. It’s not “reality” oriented. (Personally, I keep wondering, why is Islam even considered a religion?)

I recall (some time ago) reading about the Apes and Pigs business — and Memri.org provided an explanation (explained the Koranic verses and Hadith). Today, I returned to that article (it’s “special report – no. 11″), and it’s as revolting (and laughable) as when I first read it in 2002. (Yeah, Islam’s dietary laws arise, in part, as a consequence of fearing that the “animal” has human ancestors! It’s just too stupid, too offensive…)

I think the prevailing Muslim interpretation of “turned aside” is forced onto the text.

It would be interesting to see if the phrase “turned aside” is used elsewhere in the Quran and if it is does it take on the meaning of apostasy or rejection of Islam.

There are other suras that mention a tie between the Jews and the land of Israel. While Muslim exegetes may have explained them away, the fact that the Quran mentions it, without ever explicitly revoking Jewish inheritance of the land calls into question what Muhammed really meant.

Nothing hinges on the interpretation of “turned aside.” That verse, 5:21, refers in context not to Jews of all time anyway, but to the Israelites led by Moses, who were given the land but “turned aside,” rebelled, in the wilderness. That is not why Muslims don’t believe Jews have any right to rule Israel today. They believe they don’t have any right to rule Israel today because they have been cursed by Allah (2:89, 9:30), and an accursed people does not continue to enjoy Allah’s blessings, or remain as the recipient of his promises.

Thanks!

Second me on that motion. I been studying Islam for a few years now and even when I think there can’t be any more insanity to learn about it, I learn scabs more.

On a side note, there’s a few “secular” Muslim young women I work with , they are completely clueless about thier own religion.. when I attempt to have discussions about it, I swear it’s like discussing Presidential politics with Paris Hilton.

I guess these are the so-called “moderates”… there is no way these people can reform their religion or hold back the radicals.

“O my people! Enter the holy land which Allah hath assigned unto you, and turn not back ignominiously, for then will ye be overthrown, to your own ruin.”

The simple meaning of the text seems to be based on the biblical stories about the Jews. An illiterate, Muhammed hard partial knowledge of the Jewish and Christian bibles. He was clearly influenced by Judaism in terms of Muslim law regarding pork, a day of rest, obligation to pray multiple times a day, and other elements of Islam. Traditional Jewish exegesis of the Torah regards the dor hamidbar the generation of Jews in the Sinai desert, as not worthy of entry into the land of Israel, primarily because of the “sin of the spies”, how 10 of 12 spies sent by Moses to scout Canaan before invading came back with disheartening comments. Besides echoing this Jewish tradition, Muhammed also may be reflecting biblical verses of rebuke that talk of the land vomiting out the Jews.

I think the prevailing Muslim interpretation of “turned aside” is forced onto the text.

It would be interesting to see if the phrase “turned aside” is used elsewhere in the Quran and if it is does it take on the meaning of apostasy or rejection of Islam.

There are other suras that mention a tie between the Jews and the land of Israel. While Muslim exegetes may have explained them away, the fact that the Quran mentions it, without ever explicitly revoking Jewish inheritance of the land calls into question what Muhammed really meant.

unamused on June 17, 2007 at 1:49 PM

Please, do yourself and your family a favor, and research your background. Your Jewish heritage should be embraced, it is a great history, and, I believe, a foretelling of the future.

Was Yusuf Ali practicing quite a bit of taqiyya with his translation?

Probably.

Check out his rendering of 4:34, the notorious wife-beating verse. He has it “beat her (lightly),” but there is no “lightly” stated or implied in the Arabic.

his might sail right by the English-speaking reader, since the translations exhort them to “steadfast in prayer” and to “practise regular charity” (as Abdullah Yusuf Ali has it)

Robert,

It seems like most of the English Qur’ans that are popular with CAIR et al deliberately mis-translate certain uncomfortable passages. Was Yusuf Ali practicing quite a bit of taqiyya with his translation?

5:21 promises Israel to the Jews conditionally: “O my people! Enter the holy land which Allah hath assigned unto you, and turn not back ignominiously, for then will ye be overthrown, to your own ruin.”

But they did turn back ignominiously, and were thus overthrown, when they rejected Muhammad. 3:67 says that Abraham was a Muslim, not a Jew or a Christian, and the Qur’an exhorts the Jews to become Muslims not only in 2:43 but elsewhere also. By refusing to do so, they have earned Allah’s curse (2:89, 9:30) and the promises given to them belong to those who have not thus turned aside — i.e., the Muslims.

Speaking of Sura 5:21, what is the history of Muslim exegesis of the suras that promise the land of Israel to the Jews? How do the Muslim historians and Quran commentators reconcile the Muslim conquest of Palestine and Jerusalem with these suras?

Muhammad’s behavior regarding the Jews of the Arabian peninsula was very similar to that of Martin Luther in Germany centuries later. Luther also believed that his religious beliefs would appeal to the Jews, and early in his career advocated tolerance towards Jews in the goal of spreading the gospel. He criticized the Church’s persecutions of the Jews and said it was an impediment to bringing Jews to Christ. Later, when the Jews rejected Luther, he turned on them and his preaching and writing became increasingly vitriolic and violent.

Some elements of Jew hatred seem to remain constant. I think the Muslim allegations that Jewish tribes betrayed Muhammad or tried to poison him parallel Christian accusations that Jews killed Jesus.

It’s clear that Muslim hostility to Jews dates to the earliest days of Islam. Muslims will never tolerate a Jewish state in Israel. It challenges Muslim manhood by not only asserting that reviled dhimmis are not second class citizens, but sovereign in land that Muslims generally regard as wakf. This is such an affront to the shame culture of Muslims that it cannot be tolerated. The irony of the jihad against Israel, though, is that the Quran explicitly says that Allah has promised the land to the Jews, as in sura 5:21 and others.

Another excellent treatise on the matter. Thank you.

Is there any word on why mohammed wished to convert ‘the Jews of Arabia, whom he initially courted’? Was it simply because the Jews were another tribe decsended of Abraham, and therefore possibly open to his ‘revelation’?

Muhammad respected the Jews, and the Christians to a lesser extent, because they were monotheists with a written revelation. He believed, according to the traditions, that he has received revelations from the same One God whom they worshipped (cf. Qur’an 29:46), and thus expected them to recognize him as a prophet. When they didn’t, the denunciations began, and they still reverberate today in how many Muslims regard Jews.

At that time in history, the Jews were neither an economic, nor military force to be reconned with. The Jewish people were merely a scattered shadow of their former greatness.

Is there any word on why mohammed wished to convert ‘the Jews of Arabia, whom he initially courted’? Was it simply because the Jews were another tribe decsended of Abraham, and therefore possibly open to his ‘revelation’?