tickleddragon on June 14, 2007 at 12:21 PM

And a seed also becomes a flower, but when I crush that seed I haven’t killed a flower, I’ve simply crushed a seed. Just because a fetus might become a living baby doesn’t mean that to remove the fetus is killing a child. And that’s just from a scientific perspective.

In any case, the teacher is responsible to the parents and the parents are responsible to society, in training up the children.

So is that a yes? Or do you just think that teachers should only teach the subjects parents want (or are comfortable with) them to teach to their children? In other words you’re comfortable with forcing the school to be at the mercy of overly protective parents.

But a fertilized egg (in the context of the current topic) IS a HUMAN.

A fertilized egg is a fertilized egg. A baby is a baby. A girl is a girl. There is a difference. A woman can choose to have a fertilized egg removed from her body and it will not be considered murder because that egg is not a baby, or a girl, et cetera. Saying “human” in all capital letters doesn’t make it more true (this applies to phrases such as “someone else’s body” and “it is used as a means to identify an individual” as well).

When people say “keep your laws off my body”, they fail to understand that they are violating their own idea. They are destroying SOMEONE ELSE’S BODY.

See above. A fetus is not “someone” it is a fetus.

Thus, personhood is established at conception.

dominigan on June 14, 2007 at 1:24 PM

Non sequitor.

RushBaby on June 14, 2007 at 1:33 PM

Please do.

dominigan on June 14, 2007 at 1:24 PM

Beautifully succinct. May I lift it? (sincerely)

So you truly believe that everything a child learns should be taught to them by their parents? Seriously?

Parents are responsible for training up their children (and this is Biblical). Parents may choose to delegate that responsibility to a teacher. In the early frontier, parents would get together to hire a teacher for their children. In any case, the teacher is responsible to the parents and the parents are responsible to society, in training up the children.

A fertilized egg is not a “baby;”

True. But a fertilized egg (in the context of the current topic) IS a HUMAN. Fertilized egg, fetus, baby, toddler, teenager, elderly… are just terms used to describe different stages in a human lifecycle. You still maintain your same genetic identity through all of these stages.

When people say “keep your laws off my body”, they fail to understand that they are violating their own idea. They are destroying SOMEONE ELSE’S BODY.

DNA is used to identify a unique human being. Courts of law use it today to accertain whether or not someone was at a murder scene. IT IS USED AS A MEANS TO IDENTIFY AN INDIVIDUAL… and it is established at the moment of conception. Thus, personhood is established at conception.

Now…once again, as I’ve stated previously!!!! I don’t fight about outlawing abortion. (We have much bigger problems to deal with, in my opinion, as a country right now.) My problem is with people thinking that this is a good option. It is not a good choice for ANYONE, including the woman. If you can’t raise it, adopt it out.

Killing it is selfish, abhorent and just plain wrong. That simple.

A fertilized egg is not a “baby;” the sooner people like you get that through your heads the better the world will be. It’s detrimental to society to have so many people believe that forcing a woman to give birth after she’s impregnated is the “right” thing to do. It’s useless even arguing with people like you when all you can think about when you hear the word “abortion” is “murder.”

Throughout history, the prerequisite for almost every any crime against humanity has been to de-humanize the intended victim.

a girl who got birth control pills from PP at age 12.

Laura on June 13, 2007 at 2:56 PM

And if not for Planned Parenthood this poor young girl would not be having sex.

Planned Parenthood, with the help of our tax dollars, enabled her molestation by a 19 year old pedophile who should have been in jail. When her parents found out (because I made it clear that if she didn’t tell I would, and I had many talks with her mother subsequent to that to make sure they knew they whole story) they pressed charges against the guy and got their daughter in counseling.

Should the parents have had a better relationship with their daughter and known what she was up to? Certainly. But should society permit (and subsidize) her molestation just because her parents believed the lie that she was a shorter adult who didn’t really need parents? Certainly NOT.

a girl who got birth control pills from PP at age 12.

Laura on June 13, 2007 at 2:56 PM

And if not for Planned Parenthood this poor young girl would not be having sex.

Actually, your comment was the first that mentioned abortion.

I was quite aware of that. It’s called making a prediction.

On a related subject…

JadeNYU on June 13, 2007 at 2:57 PM

Prediction confirmed!

Planned… Parenthood… now why would the words planned parenthood make anyone think of abortion???

Let me introduce you to something you may not have heard of before it’s called “Natural Family Planning,” and it’s what Planned Parenthood gets its name from.

Enrique on June 13, 2007 at 3:21 PM

Thank you!

as far as what people teach their children its up to the parents and not the schools.

EnochCain on June 13, 2007 at 3:26 PM

So you truly believe that everything a child learns should be taught to them by their parents? Seriously?

Yea, but they murder babies.

doriangrey on June 13, 2007 at 3:35 PM

A fertilized egg is not a “baby;” the sooner people like you get that through your heads the better the world will be. It’s detrimental to society to have so many people believe that forcing a woman to give birth after she’s impregnated is the “right” thing to do. It’s useless even arguing with people like you when all you can think about when you hear the word “abortion” is “murder.”

If you think anyone is going to carry on a debate of any significance when the two people can’t agree on whether or not something is murder you need to get a grip on reality.

There! Evil enough for you, Libbies. Can’t make me care about the losers…but I DO however care about the babies – who have whole lives ahead of them.

tickleddragon on June 13, 2007 at 8:41 PM

The “Libbies” aren’t forcing women to have abortions, they’re just making sure the option is available to women who want it. It’s pretty startling to see “conservatives” in favor of governmental regulation of a woman’s body (a fetus–not a baby for those who like interjecting–is more important than a living breathing woman).

dismemberment-slaughter-termination of new, innocent human beings’ lives

William2006 on June 14, 2007 at 2:08 AM

See my above statements.

So what makes you such an expert on what we teach our kids?

Believe it or not (and by the tone of your post you seem like the person who will fall under the “not” category) your kids will learn things you don’t teach them. I’d even venture to guess (and you might want to stop reading here if you don’t want your view of children corrupted) that your kids curse (*gasp*) when they’re with their friends! They might even (*shifty eyes*) masturbate! My dad never taught me how to jerk off, but I managed to do it anyways, and I’d be willing to bet the same is true with your kids, regardless of how much you tell teach them premarital sex is wrong.

Yep. Lesson No. 1. Sex makes babies.

It also feels really good and is a decision you’re free to make (and accept the consequences). Did you know the clitoris is the only part of the human body that functions specifically for pleasure?

Knew a Japanese woman who’d had 5 abortions. She grew old, filled with guilt, which only worsened as she aged. She didn’t recall the good things she’d done. And this in a society that approved of abortions. Very very sad.

naliaka on June 14, 2007 at 2:12 AM

What a sad story! If only our beloved government had forced her to have her children everything would have been peachy! (Alternatively if we lived in a society most people on this blog want that Japanese woman would be convicted as a serial killer) Why must we live in a society where women are free to make their own decisions! WHY!?

And let me emphasize again for the people so woefully out of touch inhabiting this thread: The teacher never mentioned abortion!

Who would make such an idiotic statement anyway?

William

As I’ve said before, more abortions would reduce poverty.

That’s an opinion, specifically your opinion, not a fact. It’s a favorite statement of the hard Left, but have never ever (30 years and counting) seen any statistic or study to back it up, just ad nauseum repetitions. In Africa, children are considered wealth. Reducing the number of children in a family would reduce their wealth. Hmm. With farming and merchant business, the more kids, the more hands to till and plant the crops, the more people out there selling and bringing in cash. Watching Japan get poorer by the year – with deaths now outpacing births. Not enough children to man the companies that the retirees have invested in. Not enough young people to help the elderly.

Look, since YOU’RE not going to tell your kids about condoms and abortions, SOMEONE has to.
Enrique on June 13, 2007 at 3:21 PM

So what makes you such an expert on what we teach our kids? Don’t recall seeing your well-informed mug at our table during the last go around of current topics. Another blanket, un-backed up but oft-repeated statement of the Left.

There’s nothing wrong with middle schoolers understanding the consequences of their actions and how to deal with those consequences.

Yep. Lesson No. 1. Sex makes babies.
Lesson No. 2: Abortions hurt like hell. First, you need drugs to block the physical pain, then drugs later to block the anguish.
Knew a Japanese woman who’d had 5 abortions. She grew old, filled with guilt, which only worsened as she aged. She didn’t recall the good things she’d done. And this in a society that approved of abortions. Very very sad.

“The Planned Parenthood educator who met with the students, Anne Johnson, said she never mentioned abortion.”

Yet for some reason I bet all the comments will be about abortion. Planned Parenthood deals with a lot more issues than abortion.”

Nonfactor on June 13, 2007 at 2:42 PM

Planned Parenthood services listed on their main web page:

Planned Parenthood health centers offer high-quality sexual and reproductive health care, including family planning, gynecological care, STI/STD testing and treatment, pregnancy testing, and abortion services.

Nonfactor,

I am aware that Planned Parenthood deals with “birth control,” and related issues.

I, myself, frequently use the term “Planned Murderhood” as a substitute for the term “Planned Parenthood” because they are the largest single committer of dismemberment-slaughter-termination of new, innocent human beings’ lives in the United States of America. They earn the monicker “Planned Murderhood” fair and square.

I also know that, due to the heavy weight of their services invovled with preventing parenthood, and due to a large number of their clients using their services to prevent parenthood and to kill innocent babies, Planned Parenthood can hardly be called “Planned Parenthood.” It would be more like “Planned Evasion of Parenthood.”

William

If everyones full of better ideas all the Y’s need volunteers…

Tactfully put… if we’re not willing to put our money (and more importantly, our time) where our mouth is, then we’re no better than PP – in fact, worse, because as wrong-headed as they are, they are at least willing to work for what they believe in.

It’s about time we stopped stigmatizing abortion.

Enrique on June 13, 2007 at 3:21 PM

It’s time to stop dancing around and hiding in semantics and definitions …

Call “abortion” what it is -> murder.

I wouldn’t have made this descision, but coming from non-profits i can tell you that the majority of the people are well meaning, but not cream of the crop professionals. The director of the Y should have stepped in and ensured that STAY had parental consent before hand, but taking a bunch of kids to PP some of whom, if NH is anything like NYC, will likely have to choose between having their crack addicted mothers dealers baby or an abortion isn’t the worst thing they could have done. It ain’t the best by a long shot, but at least they’re trying.

If everyones full of better ideas all the Y’s need volunteers…

It’s about time we stopped stigmatizing abortion. As I’ve said before, more abortions would reduce poverty.

Enrique on June 13, 2007 at 3:21 PM

What logic. Translation: Kids should not have to live a life of poverty, so let’s kill them before they are exposed to it.

Educating them about abortion is not a bad thing – it’s a good thing.

Is it a good thing for unborn children? Evidently, life is not sacred to Enrique, just personal convenience.

I do not have time in my life to care a whit about people who don’t care enough about themselves to TRY and make good choices.

Here’s where I’m all for natural selection.

There! Evil enough for you, Libbies. Can’t make me care about the losers…but I DO however care about the babies – who have whole lives ahead of them.

haha i would say the negative worldview is the one which assumes all the poor are stupid and lazy…geez.

nobody there whom i met “chose” to be poor.

Hey, hey, Mr. Put-words-in-my-mouth, I never said that “poor automatically = stupid”. Many are uneducated because they CHOSE to drop out of school, thinking it uncool to stay where they could get an education. And yes, I’d say that was a stupid choice. But I didn’t call poor people stupid as a rule.

And I didn’t ONCE say that they chose to be poor. I said they made bad choices…which – ooo here it comes…understanding of the longterm – would, could and does lead to poverty.

Nice emotional leaping to conclusions there, you caring-lefty-among-the-evil-heartless-conservatives.

You are one of the brave and strong. I admire your struggle to use the system as it was INTENDED. Not as a hammock. Good on you. I lurk at your blog. I think you are amazing.

Those TWO sets of sextuplets artificially born to Christians who say that they are “miracles”? I think I have more ire stashed for ego maniacs like these than for a one time murderer. If that’s possible.

So would hobo hunts.

Esthier on June 13, 2007 at 3:30 PM

THREAD WINNER!!!

::who is STILL about to wet her pants howling::

Yes, yes, there’s an “industry” for everything that holds the negative liberal worldview together. How DO these people get out of bed in the morning living in that desolate world with no hope?

haha i would say the negative worldview is the one which assumes all the poor are stupid and lazy…geez.