We laughed at it when we should have forcefully repudiated it. This kind of crap deserves the full court press.

Laura on June 12, 2007 at 6:52 PM

Maybe so, but while you were laughing, many other people and sites out there were combatting this nonsense. Their combat didn’t stop the Truther Movement.

Sometimes you can’t stop stupidity.

Using a simple cost / benefit analysis, slaves would add much more to my botom line even after factoring in nutritional needs, housing, health maintainance, and appropriate clothing.

So, yeah, I’d say slaves are a quantum leap in worth over criminal aliens.

Also, what conclusions might we draw about how we “value” people in other countries given how much we spend on ourselves versus how much we spend on them?

Oddly enough, Peter Singer’s famous paper “Famine, Affluence, and Morality” makes the case that we are obligated to give away any income above subsistence level so long as anyone one in the world lives below subsistence level, because there is no moral difference between someone suffering right in front of us and someone suffering in a distant part of the world. Landsburg’s article is a specific riff on that theme: there is no moral difference between Mexicans and Americans, and so there is no reason to value one over the other.

My response is that even if we take Landsburg’s points at face value, there are other principles in play here, not the least of which is that illegal immigration is bad for Mexico, because it preserves the status quo. Mexico has no incentive to change for the better, and that ultimately hurts Mexicans far worse than our putatively “restrictive immigration policies.”

Guardian on June 12, 2007 at 10:32 PM

I personally don’t agree with the temporary worker provisions of the bill as (IMHO) it would be very costly to administer and much too easily defrauded, but if it’s to be part of the bill I think your proposed model is a very sound one…very good ideas Guardian.

For instance, folks from freindly, educated, nations that recognize the same human rights as we do and don’t want to lop our heads off are worth about one zillionth of a US citizen…it only goes down from there.

Liberty or Death on June 12, 2007 at 9:44 PM

My 2 cents

All illegal immigrants have 1 year to register as a temp worker. After cutoff date any illegal alien that is caught in the country will be considered a criminal and will be deported. These people will be biometricly scanned into a database. This database will be examined as a reference during application process for all new temp workers arriving after cutoff date. ( closes revolving door for repeat offenders, criminals, etc)

Each temp worker must provide verifiable proof of who they are if at all possible to apply. (birth certificate, etc)

Each temp worker will be assigned a biometric ID card and a tax number.(not social security number)

All temp workers must be medically screened for diseases.

All temp workers will be allowed to stay for 5 year increments. They may apply for extensions based on performance. ( no serious convictions, steady employment, background check,etc )

Must be able to prove they have been here since January 2007 ( employee record, utility bills, etc) If an applicant can not prove they have been here since January 2007 they must leave the country and reapply.

children born to temp workers do not become U.S citizens by birth. They would be classified as (Mexican, Chinese, whatever) citizens born abroad.

temp workers may be eligible for certain welfare programs provided that they are fully employed, meet certain financial criteria, and are paying taxes.

Temp workers may apply for citizenship after 10 years provided that they have not been dependent on any type of welfare for a minimum of 5 years. Must be able to prove that they are law abiding, self sufficient, and financially responsible. Must be proficient in English.

New Entrants into Temp Worker Program after cutoff date must apply at a US embassy in their host country and provide absolute proof of their identity, pass a physical, have no apparent criminal record, and have a standing verifiable job offer from a company registered in a federal database that employs temp workers.

Temp workers may bring family members if they can prove that they will be able to financially support them.

Senators said they discussed with Bush the possibility of an emergency spending bill to beef up border security as a way to win more backing.

“I think there is a lot of support for that,” said Sen. Arlen Specter, a Pennsylvania Republican who helped draft the legislation.

Uh, er, wasn’t there already a spending bill approved to build a WALL at the southern border? I realize it takes time to build it, but it’s my understanding there hasn’t been much accomplished on it since the money was appropriated!

Here’s my idea of a workable 10-step immigration bill:

1)Secure the borders first!
2)Overhaul the immigration system to make it fair, fast, and efficient for those that want to immigrate here and keeps undesirables (terrorists) out.
3)Increase ICEs’ budget and number of officers to increase the raids on companies that employee illegals and fine the HELL out of the companies (money is always something they understand) and throw company CEO’s in jail until hiring illegals becomes too costly a venture.
4)Deport all criminal illegals with the warning that they will rot in jail for the rest of their lives if they are EVER caught back in the states.
5)If you are convicted of a felony while on the road to citizenship, you’re deported.
6) It’s ok to be proud of your heritage, but your heritage comes second to upholding the constitution of the United States and protecting it from all enemies foreign and domestic, protesting your country while waving the flag from your country of origin is subversive and cause for deportation!
7) Learn to read, write, and speak english fluently within 18 months!
8) If you are found to be here illegally, you’re deported, then you can try to return legally through the system.
9) Be a productive (have a job, pay taxes, maintain insurance, etc) and law-abiding citizen.
10) No temporary worker program, it will just be abused like the temporary visa system.

Ten simple steps…simple unless of course you’re a government bureaucrat!

We in the United States are not responsbile for the plight of the rest of the nations in the world. The intersts of the United States and our citizens is paramount to effective representation by those we select to lead our nation.

If idiots such as Landsberg wish to improve the plight of those not in the United States, in Mexico, where we do not have control or responsibility, then let him join them and contribute from there. Saying we are responsible for the welfare of those outside of the United States is nonsense, and a reason the Left is the single biggest weakness this nation has.

an economy commiserate with their natural resources, vast labor pool, lower cost of production, etc. Wouldn’t that not only help a far larger percentage of those desperately poor Mexicans AND allow the U.S. to provide jobs to desperately poor foreigners from nations who do not have the ability to build a decent economy and who cannot flee across a convenient border to work for a bunch of greedy racists gringos?

That’s a tough question. I think the bottom line is that if you are helping as many as you can who are in desperate circumstances, then there is not really a moral obligation to search out for a more abjectly impoverished person so you can send away one you have at your doorstep. The question is, are we really to the point where we are helping so many, that we can in good conscience turn away the Mexicans who are seeking our help?

I’m usually the only person here arguing the other side, but in most cases I don’t attribute the disagreement to racism. I think in general there is some out there, even though I didn’t notice any in the comments above. Mostly it I think it is a disagreement over the overall impact of additional people on an economy. I think I am in agreement with Reagan, who believed that adding more people was a positive benefit to our economy.

What it’s becoming is ridiculous self-parody.

thirteen28 on June 12, 2007 at 5:23 PM

That’s all this effing libtard, RochesterU, pseudo-teacher deserves…ridicule.

Shouldn’t we ask how much are we willing to “hurt” them to help a Mexican?

I wonder what the dollar value would be if we actually stopped the cross-border traffic and forced Mexico to build an economy commiserate with their natural resources, vast labor pool, lower cost of production, etc. Wouldn’t that not only help a far larger percentage of those desperately poor Mexicans AND allow the U.S. to provide jobs to desperately poor foreigners from nations who do not have the ability to build a decent economy and who cannot flee across a convenient border to work for a bunch of greedy racists gringos?

What a schmuck!

How is it possible for any thinking creature to think these things? How? Somebody explain it.

I agree with the first comment – are we sure this wasn’t a joke?

That argument is beyond belief. It’s our country. Does a sovereign nation have any rights at all to decide who enters it?

Laura on June 12, 2007 at 6:27 PM

Not only that, they’ve made it a racial issue. Show me the illegal Europeans, Canadians, Asians that are here and see if the MSM play the same sob stories.

“This is a highly emotional issue, but those of us standing here believe now is the time to move a comprehensive bill,” Bush added.

The only people making this an emotional issue are the ones who don’t have the facts or the law (or even common sense) on their side.

Why is it OK to consign millions of unskilled Mexicans to lives of desperate poverty?

Umm…cuz it’s not my job to fix Mexico’s economy? Is it my fault Mexico’s so freaking corrupt people pour over the border?

Duh, I forgot. We’re America. Everything’s our fault.

So, exactly how much are you willing to hurt a foreigner to help an American?

A whole hell of a lot if that foreigner comes here and doesn’t benefit me and my country.

This liberal Democrat, the party that fought for slavery, still thinks of people as chattel. Hell, the slaves were worth 1/2, I guess he thinks Mexicans are worth less than blacks. He is the type that argues for Mexican immigration freedom, then when they come to cut his lawn, he argues that they are charging too much.
He should only charge 1/5 of what a white man charges…according to him.

The liberal mind, what a mess.

How long ’til politicians apologize for the ravages of our restrictive immigration policies and Rik Emmett leaving Triumph?

The arguments made in that book are similar to the arguments some some people make in favor of more immigration: we need cheap labor. So maybe someone smarter and more industrious than I could work this similarity into an argument that immigration = slavery.

It’s easy when you try.