Slate economist “proves” border enforcement is worse than slavery
posted at 5:04 pm on June 12, 2007 by Allahpundit
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So, after weeks of having our morals questioned by George Bush, Michael Chertoff, Linda Chavez, the Wall Street Journal editorial board, and a galaxy of other well-known friends of the undocumented, we arrive at last at the nadir of racial demagoguery on this issue. Coming soon to an Opinion Journal editorial near you:
How do you justify a border fence? Why is it OK to consign millions of unskilled Mexicans to lives of desperate poverty? I’m told it’s because Americans should care more about their countrymen than about a bunch of foreigners. OK, but how much more? Surely there’s some limit; virtually nobody thinks, for example, that Americans should be allowed to hunt Mexicans for sport. So, exactly how much are you willing to hurt a foreigner to help an American? Is a foreigner’s well-being worth three-quarters as much as an American’s, or half as much, or one-quarter as much?…
Bottom line: When the immigrant crosses the border, Americans lose $3, and the immigrant gains $7. To oppose that, you’d have to count an immigrant as less than three-sevenths of an American.
But wait! It’s worse than that… [I]t turns out that the immigrant’s $7 gain is worth about five times the American’s $3 loss. In other words, to justify keeping the immigrant out, you’d have to say he’s worth less than one-fifth of an American citizen.
By contrast, there was a time when the U.S. Constitution counted a black slave as three-fifths of a full-fledged citizen. Alabama Gov. Bob Riley has recently apologized for the ravages of slavery. How long till politicians apologize for the ravages of our restrictive immigration policies?
I offer this in the same magnanimous, fair-minded spirit in which his own argument is made: is he saying Mexicans would be better off as American slaves than as free men back home? Also, what conclusions might we draw about how we “value” people in other countries given how much we spend on ourselves versus how much we spend on them? The mere existence of U.S. borders would seem to “consign” billions around the world to vastly lower standards of living than we enjoy; as such, what economic measures should be taken to narrow this horrendous gap so that the average Bangladeshi is no longer “worth” one one-thousandth of an American or whatever? Surely we should at least strive to whittle it to three-fifths so we’re no longer subjected to cheap, dishonest, nakedly race-baiting arguments like these.
I’m almost afraid to ask what implications this argument holds for abortion.
Update: And just like that, I’m in a good mood again.
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Are you sure this wasn’t from the Onion?
JayHaw Phrenzie on June 12, 2007 at 5:07 PM
I am sure that this writer has created vast amounts of wealth that he is more than willing to share with the less fortunate. Oh, no you say? He wants the people actually making money to poney up?
There is a word for that but we cannot use it here.
bbz123 on June 12, 2007 at 5:11 PM
Squalid, shameless, sloppy, smarmy, and super-hysterical.
How does he know I don’t want to shoot illegals?
Presumptuous twit!
The fool who cried bigot!
At some point, average people are going to vomit this nonsense out.
Out of the media and the government.
profitsbeard on June 12, 2007 at 5:12 PM
You read my mind! I was just thinking that this has to be a joke!
hollygolightly on June 12, 2007 at 5:13 PM
Sounds like a good argument for an American Empire. If we conquer the world we can raise the living standard for the all the poor peoples of the world. Who wouldn’t want that.
Shtetl G on June 12, 2007 at 5:14 PM
And this is where the turd meets the punchbowl … un-freakin’-believable.
I’ve heard better logic from reruns of Beavis and Butthead. But I guess when you are desperate, you will say anything, especially for an indefensible bill like this.
thirteen28 on June 12, 2007 at 5:14 PM
It’s getting to the point where these master ill. imm. debaters must be willfully ignoring the arguments of us controlled borders freaks. It’s bound to become conventional wisdom if they repeat their moronicity loudly and often.
jdpaz on June 12, 2007 at 5:19 PM
What it’s becoming is ridiculous self-parody.
thirteen28 on June 12, 2007 at 5:23 PM
If you can’t do the math, don’t do the story. These folks need a calculator and a 5th grade math teacher.
I question their heritage.
Dusty on June 12, 2007 at 5:30 PM
And if we bring nearly the entire continent of Africa, all of North Korea, and most of Central and South America… we can level the playing field.
We’ll all starve, but it’ll be equal.
gekkobear on June 12, 2007 at 5:31 PM
Mocking Query: Pedestrian, Pedestrian? We have found you an intellectual friend and equal that would love to hear your “Rule of Law argument is equal to Dred Scott Decision” argument. Won’t you come out of the shadows?
———
Seriously, this “border enforcement=slavery/Jim Crow racism” argument is nothing new. And yeah, I’m still pissed off at being compared to a Southern slaveholder, so if I’m being too big a prick, the mods can send this post down the memory hole.
Bad Candy on June 12, 2007 at 5:31 PM
So now we’re reduced to fractions. Marginalization of people.
What about the other immigrants who are not Mexican?
What about those who have been patiently waiting in line only to have someone cut in front? Where’s the discrimination?
Kini on June 12, 2007 at 5:31 PM
Every time you put three dollars into the paypal link at JYB, it costs you three dollars and I get three dollars. If you don’t hit the paypal link at Junkyard Blog, you’re supporting blogger slavery. To justify not giving me you’re money, you’d have to argue that I’m zero percent American.
see-dubya on June 12, 2007 at 5:35 PM
Things could be worse for the Mexicans, at least they aren’t Palestinians. What’s the current exchange rate for Palestinian prisoners? In a glass half full way of thinking, a Mexican is probably worth at least 300 Palestinians.
rw on June 12, 2007 at 5:39 PM
Heh, See-Dub with the shameless self-promotion!
Sorry man, I’m zero percent American at this point too…
Bad Candy on June 12, 2007 at 5:41 PM
And the bad proofreading! You’re=your.
Zero percent American or not, English really is supposed to be my native language.
see-dubya on June 12, 2007 at 5:43 PM
see-dubya– HA!
If you pay for your own hosting, it’s even worse– you’re negative percent American!
Nethicus on June 12, 2007 at 5:46 PM
Nethicus–Can I go back to Oklahoma and apply for a Z visa?
see-dubya on June 12, 2007 at 5:47 PM
This is part of the machinery that is gearing up to marginalize objections to the next amnesty bill that’s coming up. See, they can dismiss us if they can write off all our arguments as coming from a bunch of racists who want to consign millions of unskilled Mexicans to lives of desperate poverty, count immigrants as less than three-sevenths of an American, and other such ravages.
RushBaby on June 12, 2007 at 5:49 PM
Our founding fathers are rolling in their graves. This thinking will lead to the demise of this great country and dare I say the demise of the GREATEST country in the world.
To answer the highlighted question from the piece of garbage linked above:
Do you sir allow homeless people to just come in and live with you in your home? If not why not? Are they worth less then you? These things are not measured in such ways. My patience has limits as does yours. I don’t allow my children’s education quality to be deteriorated because of a large group of foreigners broke into and continue to break into our home and fill up our classrooms with children who can’t speak English and come from a culture that does not value academic acheivement by any available measure.
I find it unsettling that after a few dozen foreigners broke into our country and murdered 3000 people that we have American citizens no longer concerned about the fact that 10 thousand foreigners flood into the country daily and we have no idea who each one is, where each one is nor why each one wanted to come here to begin with.
If the author of this piece wants to know the truth. The 3000 people who died on 9/11 and any other person who has been murdered by an illegal alien had a far more right to be here then all 12-20 million illegals combined ever did and ever do. Therefore, I would like to ask the author this question, why do the lives of your fellow citizens who died on 9/11 mean less to you then do the lives foreign invaders you don’t know? Why did you decide and why do you continue to decide to trade the lives of your fellow citizens for those who had no right to be here under both the letter and the spirit of the law?
Zetterson on June 12, 2007 at 5:50 PM
see-dubya-
I only use Billpoint.
(I think I’m the only one left.)
profitsbeard on June 12, 2007 at 5:50 PM
I want to know exactly how many hitchhikers Mr. Landsburg picks up when he’s driving somewhere. If he isn’t allowing every single walker into his car, regardless of their history, background, appearance, or potential for criminal or violent behavior, he’s a hypocrite.
And failing to pick up a hitchhiker doesn’t reduce them to slavery any more than failure to allow unrestricted immigration.
Then there’s this bit of sophistry: “you’d have to count an immigrant as less than three-sevenths of an American.”
Of course you don’t. Because he’e not an American at all! He’s still whatever he was on the other side of whichever border. And the term “undocumented immigrant” aside, he’s still not even an immigrant if he didnt go through immigration.
RTO Trainer on June 12, 2007 at 5:52 PM
I believe that would be a divide-by-zero error. That would make you priceless, not worthless. I can think of no higher praise.
askheaves on June 12, 2007 at 5:52 PM
We can’t argue with science. We learned that lesson with global warming.
frankj on June 12, 2007 at 5:53 PM
askheaves–
Will no one bring me out of the shadows?
see-dubya on June 12, 2007 at 5:54 PM
How many times do we have to point out that the higher the fraction of a whole that slaves counted, the better it was for the slave states? Slaves were counted as 3/5 of a person for representation; they weren’t given votes at all, because they were property in those states. The northern states wanted slaves to count as zero (for purposes of representation); the southern states wanted them to count as one (for purposes of representation).
Attila (Pillage Idiot) on June 12, 2007 at 5:59 PM
Isn’t that what people who make that argument are saying? They always talk about how Mexicans (and of course they’re always limitting the conversation to a talk about Mexicans as though no one else anywhere in the world is coming here illegally) come here for a better life. They come here clean our houses, mow our lawns and cook our food for this “better life.”
How else can you view those statements?
By that mentality, why don’t we just do Mexico a favor and conquer and enslave it.
But I forget. We’re the racists.
Esthier on June 12, 2007 at 6:03 PM
Deje el arreglo México del mexicano.
MCPO Airdale on June 12, 2007 at 6:05 PM
Good point.
Esthier on June 12, 2007 at 6:07 PM
Aren’t these are the same people that complain about our jobs being outsourced to other countries?
Besides, if all the illegals are gone, who will cut the grass of all the Hollywood elites and/or politicians? It could cost a fortune to have a local contractor do that with a “liveable wage”. Those are some big lawns wrapped around the mansions.
/snark
Speaking of which, if I were in the business, I’d be advertising “mexican slave labor free” work. Sorry, we charge a little more but we don’t exploit others for personal gain.
I know who I’d do business with.
Secure the fricken border and expand the guest worker program. Buy some buses and shuttle em in and out if you want (at the expense of the hiring business). Check with New Orleans. They seem to have plenty of buses they aren’t using.
DWB on June 12, 2007 at 6:11 PM
Just shows a liberal economist is about as valuable as tits on a bull. Do not take stock tips from this moron.
pat on June 12, 2007 at 6:12 PM
Well, if slavery is so innocuous, let’s revive it!
Kralizec on June 12, 2007 at 6:13 PM
I always gripe when the price of one stamp goes up, for two reasons:
- one, it bugs me that it goes up, and
- two, it has been happening so frequently that it’s very annoying
My colleagues and buddies invariably say “ah, what are you griping about? it’s still so much cheaper than anywhere else to send a letter”. “Then, (implied nitwits) have them adapt to our standard”.
The articles about the fragmented persons have been very stupid. I’d give anything to see articles on why it is so miserable elsewhere. Oh, our elite media, how adorably ‘intelligent’ they are.
Entelechy on June 12, 2007 at 6:14 PM
“We can’t argue with science. We learned that lesson with global warming” money….absolute money….
commonsensehoosier on June 12, 2007 at 6:17 PM
I’d like to help Landsburg out with his numbers. An illegal immigrant is worth exactly ZERO, NIL, NADA, NOTHING at all compared to an American.
It’s easy when you try.
csdeven on June 12, 2007 at 6:18 PM
I was googling around recently and ended up at the googlebooks site reading “King Cotton”, a pre-civil war pro-slavery tract.
The arguments made in that book are similar to the arguments some some people make in favor of more immigration: we need cheap labor. So maybe someone smarter and more industrious than I could work this similarity into an argument that immigration = slavery.
Bad Penny on June 12, 2007 at 6:21 PM
I think what Ann Coulter said has a lot of merit here too. She said basically that the people most effected by illegal immigration are not people our elites care about. Low skilled workers competing with low skilled workers driving down wages and lowering the cost of labor for businesses is not a “concern” to our elites in office. If everybody flooding over that border was a politician it would take one hour to to put the US Military on the border to guard an electrified fence surrounded by aligators.
Zetterson on June 12, 2007 at 6:22 PM
Landsberg is right but he didn’t go far enough. I mean, why oh WHY is it OK to consign millions of Canadians to lives of desperate mediocrity? Bottom line: When Jim Carrey crossed the border, Americans lost 12 IQ points and the immigrant gained $20,000,000 per crappy movie.
How long ’til politicians apologize for the ravages of our restrictive immigration policies and Rik Emmett leaving Triumph?
ScottMcC on June 12, 2007 at 6:24 PM
Now, let me get this straight. Slate, which is a liberal rag, is saying economically the Mexican immigrants are worth 1/5 of an American.
This liberal Democrat, the party that fought for slavery, still thinks of people as chattel. Hell, the slaves were worth 1/2, I guess he thinks Mexicans are worth less than blacks. He is the type that argues for Mexican immigration freedom, then when they come to cut his lawn, he argues that they are charging too much.
He should only charge 1/5 of what a white man charges…according to him.
The liberal mind, what a mess.
right2bright on June 12, 2007 at 6:27 PM
Umm…cuz it’s not my job to fix Mexico’s economy? Is it my fault Mexico’s so freaking corrupt people pour over the border?
Duh, I forgot. We’re America. Everything’s our fault.
A whole hell of a lot if that foreigner comes here and doesn’t benefit me and my country.
wherestherum on June 12, 2007 at 6:27 PM
Gee, you think maybe the government of Mexico might actually be at fault for consigning millions of Mexicans to poverty?
The only people making this an emotional issue are the ones who don’t have the facts or the law (or even common sense) on their side.
Laura on June 12, 2007 at 6:27 PM
Not only that, they’ve made it a racial issue. Show me the illegal Europeans, Canadians, Asians that are here and see if the MSM play the same sob stories.
wherestherum on June 12, 2007 at 6:31 PM
I’m sorry, but I can’t even believe what I just read.
How is it possible for any thinking creature to think these things? How? Somebody explain it.
I agree with the first comment - are we sure this wasn’t a joke?
That argument is beyond belief. It’s our country. Does a sovereign nation have any rights at all to decide who enters it?
Professor Blather on June 12, 2007 at 6:36 PM
Perhaps these folks should ask why a Mexican / Central American is somehow worth far more than all those other “foreigners” consigned to live in “desperate poverty” simply because they weren’t fortunate enough to live in a country that borders America?
Shouldn’t we ask how much are we willing to “hurt” them to help a Mexican?
I wonder what the dollar value would be if we actually stopped the cross-border traffic and forced Mexico to build an economy commiserate with their natural resources, vast labor pool, lower cost of production, etc. Wouldn’t that not only help a far larger percentage of those desperately poor Mexicans AND allow the U.S. to provide jobs to desperately poor foreigners from nations who do not have the ability to build a decent economy and who cannot flee across a convenient border to work for a bunch of greedy racists gringos?
What a schmuck!
Fatal on June 12, 2007 at 6:36 PM
Even if you accept his faulty premise it is the responsiblity of the U.S. to help poor Mexicans, he ultimately fails to properly examine the results of his own advocacy. When one Mexican leaves for this better life how much does this improve the wage of those who stayed in Mexico. The awnser seems to be, close to zero. So even if you accept his rational that we need to help Mexico’s poor, the policy of importing some if its population is an abject failure.
Resolute on June 12, 2007 at 6:36 PM
Easy, gang. The earlier comments had the right feel on this:
That’s all this effing libtard, RochesterU, pseudo-teacher deserves…ridicule.
Jaibones on June 12, 2007 at 6:38 PM
“Restrictive immigration”?!?!?!? He’s an idiot.
SouthernGent on June 12, 2007 at 6:43 PM
Jaibones on June 12, 2007 at 6:38 PM
I disagree. This is exactly the kind of garbage that will get mainstream play unless we push back hard. Five years ago would you have dreamed for a moment that the Truther virus would spread the way it has? We laughed at it when we should have forcefully repudiated it. This kind of crap deserves the full court press.
Laura on June 12, 2007 at 6:52 PM
I wonder what the dollar value would be if we actually stopped the cross-border traffic and forced Mexico to build
That’s a tough question. I think the bottom line is that if you are helping as many as you can who are in desperate circumstances, then there is not really a moral obligation to search out for a more abjectly impoverished person so you can send away one you have at your doorstep. The question is, are we really to the point where we are helping so many, that we can in good conscience turn away the Mexicans who are seeking our help?
I’m usually the only person here arguing the other side, but in most cases I don’t attribute the disagreement to racism. I think in general there is some out there, even though I didn’t notice any in the comments above. Mostly it I think it is a disagreement over the overall impact of additional people on an economy. I think I am in agreement with Reagan, who believed that adding more people was a positive benefit to our economy.
pedestrian on June 12, 2007 at 7:45 PM
In my opinion, Steven E. Landsburg, who I believe is the author of this nosense from the link above, simply does not understand the notion of national identity. If he wishes to improve the lot of those less fortunate in other countries then he can contribute, but advocating open borders to the detriment of THIS nation is treason.
We in the United States are not responsbile for the plight of the rest of the nations in the world. The intersts of the United States and our citizens is paramount to effective representation by those we select to lead our nation.
If idiots such as Landsberg wish to improve the plight of those not in the United States, in Mexico, where we do not have control or responsibility, then let him join them and contribute from there. Saying we are responsible for the welfare of those outside of the United States is nonsense, and a reason the Left is the single biggest weakness this nation has.
omegaram on June 12, 2007 at 7:49 PM
Hey, certain Americans (Henry Clay comes to mind) used to believe that the Capitol would eventually be moved to Mexico City. Of course, that would be AFTER we conquered the entire hemisphere and imposed our culture on all concerned. If that were the case, I’m all in favor of it! If not, build the damn fence, enforce the laws, and let those who DESIRE a better life as Americans come here legally and seek it. I’ll be the first to clap them on the back and help them register to vote.
Militant Bibliophile on June 12, 2007 at 8:32 PM
Uh, er, wasn’t there already a spending bill approved to build a WALL at the southern border? I realize it takes time to build it, but it’s my understanding there hasn’t been much accomplished on it since the money was appropriated!
Here’s my idea of a workable 10-step immigration bill:
1)Secure the borders first!
2)Overhaul the immigration system to make it fair, fast, and efficient for those that want to immigrate here and keeps undesirables (terrorists) out.
3)Increase ICEs’ budget and number of officers to increase the raids on companies that employee illegals and fine the HELL out of the companies (money is always something they understand) and throw company CEO’s in jail until hiring illegals becomes too costly a venture.
4)Deport all criminal illegals with the warning that they will rot in jail for the rest of their lives if they are EVER caught back in the states.
5)If you are convicted of a felony while on the road to citizenship, you’re deported.
6) It’s ok to be proud of your heritage, but your heritage comes second to upholding the constitution of the United States and protecting it from all enemies foreign and domestic, protesting your country while waving the flag from your country of origin is subversive and cause for deportation!
7) Learn to read, write, and speak english fluently within 18 months!
8) If you are found to be here illegally, you’re deported, then you can try to return legally through the system.
9) Be a productive (have a job, pay taxes, maintain insurance, etc) and law-abiding citizen.
10) No temporary worker program, it will just be abused like the temporary visa system.
Ten simple steps…simple unless of course you’re a government bureaucrat!
Liberty or Death on June 12, 2007 at 9:44 PM
My 2 cents
All illegal immigrants have 1 year to register as a temp worker. After cutoff date any illegal alien that is caught in the country will be considered a criminal and will be deported. These people will be biometricly scanned into a database. This database will be examined as a reference during application process for all new temp workers arriving after cutoff date. ( closes revolving door for repeat offenders, criminals, etc)
Each temp worker must provide verifiable proof of who they are if at all possible to apply. (birth certificate, etc)
Each temp worker will be assigned a biometric ID card and a tax number.(not social security number)
All temp workers must be medically screened for diseases.
All temp workers will be allowed to stay for 5 year increments. They may apply for extensions based on performance. ( no serious convictions, steady employment, background check,etc )
Must be able to prove they have been here since January 2007 ( employee record, utility bills, etc) If an applicant can not prove they have been here since January 2007 they must leave the country and reapply.
children born to temp workers do not become U.S citizens by birth. They would be classified as (Mexican, Chinese, whatever) citizens born abroad.
temp workers may be eligible for certain welfare programs provided that they are fully employed, meet certain financial criteria, and are paying taxes.
Temp workers may apply for citizenship after 10 years provided that they have not been dependent on any type of welfare for a minimum of 5 years. Must be able to prove that they are law abiding, self sufficient, and financially responsible. Must be proficient in English.
New Entrants into Temp Worker Program after cutoff date must apply at a US embassy in their host country and provide absolute proof of their identity, pass a physical, have no apparent criminal record, and have a standing verifiable job offer from a company registered in a federal database that employs temp workers.
Temp workers may bring family members if they can prove that they will be able to financially support them.
Guardian on June 12, 2007 at 10:32 PM
I’ll take the bait and argue that, yes, they are worth less than US Citizens, much, much less, and depending on where you come from determines how much less.
For instance, folks from freindly, educated, nations that recognize the same human rights as we do and don’t want to lop our heads off are worth about one zillionth of a US citizen…it only goes down from there.
Alden Pyle on June 12, 2007 at 11:11 PM
I personally don’t agree with the temporary worker provisions of the bill as (IMHO) it would be very costly to administer and much too easily defrauded, but if it’s to be part of the bill I think your proposed model is a very sound one…very good ideas Guardian.
Liberty or Death on June 13, 2007 at 12:07 AM
The author is correct, migrants are a net benefit…..except this author forgot one little fact. They milk the welfare and public doles. When you factor in the welfare, foodstamps and Medicaid, they are a drain on our society.
Tim Burton on June 13, 2007 at 2:39 AM
Oddly enough, Peter Singer’s famous paper “Famine, Affluence, and Morality” makes the case that we are obligated to give away any income above subsistence level so long as anyone one in the world lives below subsistence level, because there is no moral difference between someone suffering right in front of us and someone suffering in a distant part of the world. Landsburg’s article is a specific riff on that theme: there is no moral difference between Mexicans and Americans, and so there is no reason to value one over the other.
My response is that even if we take Landsburg’s points at face value, there are other principles in play here, not the least of which is that illegal immigration is bad for Mexico, because it preserves the status quo. Mexico has no incentive to change for the better, and that ultimately hurts Mexicans far worse than our putatively “restrictive immigration policies.”
Bill Ramey on June 13, 2007 at 6:32 AM
Actually, using the author’s logic, slaves ARE worth far more than criminal aliens…no matter how you look at it.
Using a simple cost / benefit analysis, slaves would add much more to my botom line even after factoring in nutritional needs, housing, health maintainance, and appropriate clothing.
So, yeah, I’d say slaves are a quantum leap in worth over criminal aliens.
Alden Pyle on June 13, 2007 at 6:39 AM
Maybe so, but while you were laughing, many other people and sites out there were combatting this nonsense. Their combat didn’t stop the Truther Movement.
Sometimes you can’t stop stupidity.
Esthier on June 13, 2007 at 9:31 AM