Open thread: Republican presidential debate; Update: Giuliani video added; Update: Highlight reel added
posted at 6:34 pm on June 5, 2007 by Allahpundit
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Second verse, same as the first: 7 p.m. ET, St. Anselm’s College, live on CNN. Tonight’s subplots:
1. Amnesty, amnesty, amnesty. St. John will go on the offensive before anyone can put him on the defensive, although Mitt and Tancredo are sure going to try. Will Bush come in for criticism, even if only for his rhetoric? House Republicans have given the green light.
2. Giuliani vs. Paul, round two. Will Rudy duck him? Or will he take a certain someone’s advice and throw Adam Gadahn’s list of demands in his sneering face?
3. The man who wasn’t there. In addition to his surge in the Rasmussen and Survey USA polls, Fred’s even with Giuliani in Pew’s new survey and ahead of the field in the InTrade prediction market for the Republican nomination. He also picked up an endorsement from Bob Corker today and will have the number-three Republican in the House, wunderkind Adam Putnam, working for him in Florida. Hannity’s having him on immediately after the debate ends so let’s see if any of the candidates take their chance to land a preemptive shot or two. If anyone does, I’ll bet it’s McCain (obliquely), their friendship notwithstanding.
4. Libby’s sentencing. Fred was on the steering committee of Libby’s defense fund and is on record as saying he’d pardon him immediately. (It’s in the first clip here, right at the beginning.) Today’s news is a perfect peg for Wolf Blitzer to introduce Thompson’s name into the debate by asking the field if they agree with him or, rather, with Bush, who says he feels “terrible” for Libby but won’t be springing him anytime soon.
I suspect MM will be liveblogging it but I’m not sure yet. No doubt we’ll have video updates, including/especially as regards Fred’s reaction afterwards on H&C. Comments are open…
Update: There was a question earlier in the evening about what the candidates would do if Petraeus came back in September and said the surge wasn’t working. Giuliani didn’t get a chance to answer, so he answered during the Q&A later in the evening. Sort of.
Update: Ian has video of Mike Huckabee offering his opinion of Fred Thompson before the debate.
Update: Here’s a short highlight reel from the first hour. It includes the part where Rudy incurs the wrath of god during his answer about criticism from Catholics about abortion.
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Maybe someone has said this already but when I see Ron Paul I picture an old man in fuzzy slippers and an open bathrobe screaming at children to get off his lawn.
jeffshow on June 5, 2007 at 8:51 PM
Tancredo-Amen!
Valiant on June 5, 2007 at 8:51 PM
wolf mischaracterizes tancredo’s reponse in his follow up question.
TexasDan on June 5, 2007 at 8:52 PM
Whoa The Tanc! Cuttin ties with the past and not pushin the ole#2!
sonnyspats1 on June 5, 2007 at 8:52 PM
At least Rudy didn’t stand up agian. Forget it…
JEFF_IN_NC on June 5, 2007 at 8:53 PM
LMAO!!!!!
Sammy316 on June 5, 2007 at 8:53 PM
As much as I want to agree with Tancredo on that immigration quote, I have to go with Rudy. I’m not opposed to legal immigration, just illegal.
amerpundit on June 5, 2007 at 8:53 PM
Rudy doesn’t get that this bill will legalize ALL immigrants, no matter how they got here.
Valiant on June 5, 2007 at 8:53 PM
so Rudy–how many of the current illegals would fit in lincoln’s definition? 3? 4?
TexasDan on June 5, 2007 at 8:53 PM
dang, what did Rudy eat this morning?!
Spirit of 1776 on June 5, 2007 at 8:53 PM
McCain is lost. His prepared remarks doom him. I hope his constituents doom him too.
JEFF_IN_NC on June 5, 2007 at 8:53 PM
I love how they are just talking right over Wolf’s “Thank You”.
unamused on June 5, 2007 at 8:53 PM
Geez, I am so tired of Wolf Lefter saying ‘Thank you…thank you…thank you’
Just let them finish!
lsutiger on June 5, 2007 at 8:54 PM
I didn’t like what he said about cutting ties. Yes, political ones need to be cut. But he said “especially political ones”, meaning he was referring to more than just those. I still celebrate my cultural traditions, along with American.
amerpundit on June 5, 2007 at 8:54 PM
It’s a rather homely crowd up there in New Hampshire, no?
SouthernGent on June 5, 2007 at 8:55 PM
The question is McCain, whether we should export or import values! Reagan said shine…
Spirit of 1776 on June 5, 2007 at 8:55 PM
RINO amnesty!
Limerick on June 5, 2007 at 8:55 PM
I think the audience is filled with “compassionate conservatives” aka liberals.
They applaud the most for the most liberal answers–and even more for Ron Paul!
IrishEi on June 5, 2007 at 8:55 PM
If independents and moderates have not flocked back to the current GOP, they are lost forever.
Valiant on June 5, 2007 at 8:55 PM
Rush at the Corner
rslancer14 on June 5, 2007 at 8:56 PM
He said he supported Tancs stance on illegals, but not on legals. Tan wants to cut down on all immigration – he wants to limit the number allowed legally per year. Earlier on, he said he wasn’t a fan of the bill.
amerpundit on June 5, 2007 at 8:56 PM
I haven’t noticed any spelling errors yet, though, rslancer.
SouthernGent on June 5, 2007 at 8:57 PM
they’re all shoveling crap now, afraid of being painted as “anti-immigrant.” It’s time to cuddle up to the base, men, not try to wax eloquent on the benefits of immigration.
TexasDan on June 5, 2007 at 8:57 PM
Hunter…..bad move bud
Limerick on June 5, 2007 at 8:57 PM
Thanks Nonfactor.
This is completely off-topic in this thread, but on this page: Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy, the author highlights the split i opinions on this very issue. Very interesting. Last paragraph of 2.1.1.
nailinmyeye on June 5, 2007 at 8:57 PM
Wow, smirkiness.
unamused on June 5, 2007 at 8:57 PM
GOP follow Arnold?
Only a liberal tool would even think of such a question.
infidel4life on June 5, 2007 at 8:58 PM
The issue of preemptive strike in Just War Theory, that is.
nailinmyeye on June 5, 2007 at 8:58 PM
Great answer, Hunter!
db on June 5, 2007 at 8:58 PM
There’s that stupid “Thank You” again.
unamused on June 5, 2007 at 8:59 PM
Newsflash McCain: We are not your friends.
infidel4life on June 5, 2007 at 8:59 PM
or a big black X over the faces of any of the candidates, eh SG?
rslancer14 on June 5, 2007 at 8:59 PM
McCain sounds tough but he sponsored McCain Feingold AND SAMENESTY! Liar.
JEFF_IN_NC on June 5, 2007 at 8:59 PM
SHAMENESTY…
JEFF_IN_NC on June 5, 2007 at 9:00 PM
McCain have Shakespeare write those remarks?
unamused on June 5, 2007 at 9:00 PM
Fred! on H & C time!!!
rslancer14 on June 5, 2007 at 9:00 PM
Well, that was just about as bad as the MSNBC fiasco. FOX still did the best job.
IrishEi on June 5, 2007 at 9:00 PM
Next on … Is Larry King Alive!
JEFF_IN_NC on June 5, 2007 at 9:00 PM
Fred! isn on H/C!
SouthernGent on June 5, 2007 at 9:00 PM
Thanks rslancer!!!!
JEFF_IN_NC on June 5, 2007 at 9:01 PM
Who’s watching Fred! on H&C, and whose going to watch Giuliani on CNN?
nailinmyeye on June 5, 2007 at 9:01 PM
Is CNN in favor of McCain?
amerpundit on June 5, 2007 at 9:01 PM
Can someone with video prowess make a montage of Wolf’s “Thank You”’s?
It would be funny to see just how many times the candidates absolutely ignored him.
unamused on June 5, 2007 at 9:01 PM
Who’s DVR’ing H&C? I am going watch the history channel!
lsutiger on June 5, 2007 at 9:02 PM
Nail. Head.
infidel4life on June 5, 2007 at 9:02 PM
The History Channel? Why? You want to watch that special on McCain’s campaign? McCain really thinks he killed tonight, and thinks he won support. All he did was hurt himself.
amerpundit on June 5, 2007 at 9:04 PM
You NC guys like Texas Hold ‘Em? I’m down with some conservative comaraderie.
jeffreyg north carolina road runnner. Protest warrior member, and proud of it.
JEFF_IN_NC on June 5, 2007 at 9:04 PM
imwithfred.com
nailinmyeye on June 5, 2007 at 9:05 PM
10 bucks Paul wins the straw poll by 20%!
Limerick on June 5, 2007 at 9:06 PM
Fred’s site is really slow. I wonder if it is a deluge of traffic from the H&C mention just now.
nailinmyeye on June 5, 2007 at 9:07 PM
Doesn’t it bother anyone that Huckabee confused Reagan’s day of death with his day of birth? I think he’s a communist.
Alex K on June 5, 2007 at 9:09 PM
When you sign up to become a “friend of Fred” it asks you for our IM screen name and platform. Do other candidates do this? Interesting to me, in light of him running a “netcentric” campaign. Are they going to IM me?
nailinmyeye on June 5, 2007 at 9:10 PM
The RNC site asks the same thing.
Sammy316 on June 5, 2007 at 9:13 PM
A good show by the front runners. Tancredo jumped head first into the irrelevant and embarassing candidate category for me when he suggested we stop ALL immigration. I mean jeez how do you even suggest something that absurd? Plus his harping on the language thing got on my nerves. Muchas gracias indeed.
Dash on June 5, 2007 at 9:14 PM
I think Hunter cut to the quick pointing out Mitt, Rudy, and McCain’s apparent man crush on Teddy Kennedy and Bill Clinton (past or present). Is McCain aware that the London bombings weren’t “within our shores”? Has McCain realized he ain’t gonna get nominated or even re elected to his current seat? Did anyone else think Mitt looked a little desperate? Would anyone else not have been surprised if people in white suits scooped up Ron Paul in a big butterfly net and led him off stage? Personally I think that Rudy McRomney were the big losers in this debate leaving a big opening for Fred to fill. It’s time Fred, we’re listening for what you have to say and to see exactly who you are.
Buzzy on June 5, 2007 at 9:14 PM
JEFF_IN_NC on June 5, 2007 at 9:16 PM
JEFF_IN_NC on June 5, 2007 at 9:16 PM
I guess I’d better check the FAQ on quoting people…
JEFF_IN_NC on June 5, 2007 at 9:17 PM
CNN acted as enabler for one long McCain commercial for his shamnesty bill!
Bloodhound on June 5, 2007 at 9:18 PM
amerpundit on June 5, 2007 at 8:54 PM
Well it’s hard to decipher from a three word statrment but, I can only speculate that he is refering to things he deems as unAmerican. They might include language and mabey things like unorthodox religious practice such as (Santa something or other) where voodoo is combined with the sacrifice of animals to some Catholic Saints. I don’t know mabey sexual mutilation by muslims to their newborn daughters in their circumcision? Criminal ties to ms13 and other paramilitary gangs, things like that. But I think its still ok to eat rice and beans. I am Sicilian and I would kill over a plate of Mussels de Zuppa.
sonnyspats1 on June 5, 2007 at 9:18 PM
I didn’t get that all. I thought it was a “Bush’s war” commercial.
SouthernGent on June 5, 2007 at 9:20 PM
mystery link.
that is all.
Pilgrim on June 5, 2007 at 9:21 PM
Romney had a bad night, Rudy and McCain kept their fans, Tancredo is at the first aid station, Hunter, Huckabee, Thompson still waiting on the bench, Paul is playing Woody Guthrie on the CD player in the limo. Winner……..none, but Romney is slamming the hotel room door bout now.
Limerick on June 5, 2007 at 9:24 PM
Not that it will help his percentages, but I think Huckabee was the winner tonight. Had several good answers and didn’t get into much trouble. Agree with you, Limerick, that Romney lost tonight–big time.
IrishEi on June 5, 2007 at 9:28 PM
McCain is getting skewered on C-SPAN right now…good stuff!
SouthernGent on June 5, 2007 at 9:28 PM
C-SPAN2…oops.
SouthernGent on June 5, 2007 at 9:28 PM
Yeah, I think Romney didn’t help himself much at all. That spanish language question could have been answer in so many better ways, like – the conservative message is universal, or a ton others…saying well hopefully they will vote me not as smooth as usual.
Spirit of 1776 on June 5, 2007 at 9:29 PM
CNN simply STINKS as a debate hosting network. That’s my opening salvo.
I am liking lots of what the various candidates are saying, but what we need is someone with the intellect of Newt, the popularity of Fred!, the name recognition of Rudy, and the tenacity of McCain.
No matter what happens, none of the Dems can hold a candle to the GOPsters.
itzWicks on June 5, 2007 at 9:29 PM
Well, freddie boy shows his colors again by sitting in the safe confines of Seans softball interview.
What a coward.
What gall to hold himself equal to real candidates in real debate.
And more waffling on a date.
And more rehashing of the other candidates answers.
He tried to blame his staff for filling out a questionnaire, when he holds the same view and is pro-choice.
That was sickening.
csdeven on June 5, 2007 at 9:31 PM
Dude, enough.
Slublog on June 5, 2007 at 9:34 PM
csdeven, you’re beyond predictable, fella.
I bet tancredo wishes he could have that last question back. What I heard was not advocating no immigration at all, so much as saying if we go ahead with amnesty, then we will have to take drastic action to work on assimilation issues and hold our country together.
What came across was the way Wolf immediately spun it into blanket opposition to immigration. It was unfair, but Tanc left the door open for it by playing his point too large.
TexasDan on June 5, 2007 at 9:34 PM
LMAO…Ann Coulter called Slick Willie Clinton a “sociopath”.
SouthernGent on June 5, 2007 at 9:35 PM
Ann just nailed old fred? on his flip-flopping and total disconnect with reality on the Clinton impeachment. How bad is this guy gonna look when he has to answer real questions from people who aren’t his shills. Time will tell.
Heart-ache.
csdeven on June 5, 2007 at 9:38 PM
Ann dislikes Fred? Well, heck. That’s one more point in his favor, as far as I’m concerned.
Slublog on June 5, 2007 at 9:39 PM
Tancredo MIGHT have been able to make a case for stopping all immigration had he used the recent gumball example that was linked by a fellow HA member.
csdeven on June 5, 2007 at 9:39 PM
Wow, had some bad Chinese food during an episode of Law and Order?
infidel4life on June 5, 2007 at 9:40 PM
csdeven….
I really don’t mind you being against Fred! but sometimes, I swear, I think I see nutroot in your DNA test results.
Limerick on June 5, 2007 at 9:41 PM
Yeah, MITT! had some rough moments tonight, but he had more good moments. His weakness as a conservative is a deliberate attempt to set himself up for the general. Do you see him use the “small bore, large bore” analogy? Perhaps a subliminal attempt to shore up a totally weak stance on the 2nd amendment? He got lucky that the 2nd amendment didn’t come up.
csdeven on June 5, 2007 at 9:44 PM
One sure thing….Paul’s remark about it being a job for policemen should mean a no-invite to future debates.
Limerick on June 5, 2007 at 9:44 PM
hahaha. I am just the balance for the fred? groupies. ;-)
csdeven on June 5, 2007 at 9:46 PM
I don’t mind that, but you’ve got to pace yourself, man…don’t use it all up in one thread.
Slublog on June 5, 2007 at 9:48 PM
What was with all the applause for Ron Paul? I know most of what he says sounds good on paper, but we have to project our power throughout the world or else evil men will conspire to fill that void and we will be assaulted on all sides. Heck, we are now, can you imagine?
csdeven on June 5, 2007 at 9:49 PM
Why are they doing these already?
Jim Treacher on June 5, 2007 at 9:53 PM
Paul does say some good things, I especially liked his take on dont ask dont tell. but his anti-american isolationist foreign policy nonsense puts him in the “I’d vote for Hillary before you” category.
Dash on June 5, 2007 at 9:57 PM
hahaha. As long as fred? refuses to get in, I’ll never run out of criticism for his failure to act. People need to remember to separate themselves from fred?. They aren’t him and he isn’t them. My harsh words for fred? are not to be taken personally by his supporters. I fondly call them groupies, fred?heads, or fred?-ites. That is all good natured ribbing.
OK, back on topic….
I am going to defer to Ann on her criticism of freds? explanation of his flip-flop on his impeachment votes. IMO, she knows what she’s talking about. I wish the guy would get in so we can properly vet his record and positions.
csdeven on June 5, 2007 at 9:59 PM
First, the bad: Why were Ron Paul’s assinine statements (war for oil, Iran no national security threat, to name two) never refuted? Everyone just moved on, when I think that would have been a great opportunity for someone(like the last debate when Giuliani jumped in. Also, is it just me, or was virtually all of them on board with global warming? I found this disturbing. Alternative energy is a completely separate issue, yet none of them questioned the “science” of man-made global warming, instead called for measures to help fight it. WTF?
Moving on: Rudy, Huckabee, and McCain had the best nights. That’s two in a row for Huckabee (two really, really good moments tonight) and McCain (despite my obvious disagreements) really had a good showing tonight across the board. But for me, Rudy really stood out, and is now my #1. Even though none of it was really new, the way he spoke about the greatest issue of our time and being so committed to fighting and winning it, really resonated with me. And add to the fact that he is far and away the most electable of our candidates, I am more in his camp than I have with anyone so far in this campaign.
Having said that, I still like Romney (yikes, tough night) and Fred Thompson as potential candidates as well.
Patriot33 on June 5, 2007 at 10:07 PM
1st Rudy Giuliani (Wins the WOT debate)
2nd Mitt Romney (Wins the telegenic debate)
3rd Mike Huckabee (Wins the quotability debate)
4th Duncan Hunter (Wins the military debate)
5th Tom Tancredo (Wins the Immigration debate)
6th Sam Brownback (wins the Abortion debate)
7th Jim Gilmore (Wins the “I got on TV debate)
8th John McCain (Wins the I didnt finish last debate)
9th Tommy Thompson (wins the I get to return to private life debate)
10th He who shall not be poll/pauled
Wins the “Call of Cthulhu” conspiracy debate
William Amos on June 5, 2007 at 10:14 PM
Yeah, I gotta agree that Huckabee is a future mover and shaker in the republican party. Rudy did well as did McCain. But McCain has a problem. He polarizes with his immigration stance, and that will never get him the nomination. I think he is trying to appeal to the general electorate, but he’s way too soon. I think the rest, even Ron Paul needs to stay in these debates because they have nothing to lose. IE Duncan Hunter SKEWERED Rudy McRomney. I loved it!
csdeven on June 5, 2007 at 10:18 PM
Ever hear the phrase, “Don’t feed the trolls?”
That’s why.
bamapachyderm on June 5, 2007 at 10:18 PM
Okay, just catching up with everything so please indulge me…
I think the Tanc was great! At least he’s not messing around, he’s saying exactly what he thinks, whether it’s popular or not! Go Tom!
Also, Huckabee gave a stellar Evolution answer. Again, maybe not the popular answer, but at least the truth!
hollygolightly on June 5, 2007 at 10:30 PM
Huckabee is a potential veep. The guy made me take notice tonight.
Slublog on June 5, 2007 at 10:30 PM
Anyone else getting the impression that Tom Tancredo might vote for Duncan Hunter?
Pablo on June 5, 2007 at 10:32 PM
eh everyone including CS is entitled to his opinion.
At least hes not for Ron Paul.
Fred isnt everyone’s cup of tea. And that is OK.
William Amos on June 5, 2007 at 10:42 PM
I have to admit that I focus on the top three (Rudy McRomney), so it’s partly my fault, but I don’t get why Huckabee isn’t up in the top tier. I can’t remember one thing that he has said that I am unhappy with. I cannot say that about any other candidate.
csdeven on June 5, 2007 at 10:54 PM
Thanks very much for that.
csdeven on June 5, 2007 at 10:55 PM
Dearest csdeven, he’s nearly in and you and Hillary have begun to wet something, while you’re vetting…
Although I will vote for whichever man makes it to the top, I don’t like your boy at all. His ad makes me insane due to its dictatorial tone. I deal with literally hundreds of people weekly, professionally. When it doesn’t click, it doesn’t click. There is something about him that I can’t warm up to, and I assure you it’s not his religion. It will get very interesting, very soon.
p.s. your comments/opinions don’t bother me – just don’t get mean about it.
Entelechy on June 6, 2007 at 12:32 AM
Ron Paul in the Republican debate would be like if Joe Lieberman was in the Democrat debate. Paul would “fit” much better on the Democrat side.
And as someone already answered, I think the other Republican candidates are simply dismissing anything Ron Paul says as “lunatic fringe” and don’t want to comment on any of it. Don’t give this guy any more notoriety than what he got from the last debate.
With this many candidates in the field on both sides of the aisle, a lot of it can be boring. Tancredo, Hunter, Paul, Gilmore, and T. Thompson just have no shot, but I still have to listen to them.
asc85 on June 6, 2007 at 12:34 AM
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