Bush: Amnesty bill will reduce the need for a fence(?)

posted at 11:17 am on May 31, 2007 by Allahpundit

Whatever can this mean?

When you grow up in Texas like I did, you recognize the decency and humanity of Hispanics. And the truth of the matter is, a lot of this immigration debate is driven as a result of Latinos being in our country,” he said. “I have seen firsthand the beautiful stories of people being able to take advantage of opportunity and make solid contributions to our society.”

He said Americans had nothing to fear from large-scale immigration from Latin America.

“There is an element of our society that is worried about two Americas,” he said. “Our ability to welcome newcomers and the system’s capacity to assimilate them has been one of the great powerful traditions of America. It works, and it will work this time. People shouldn’t fear our capacity to uphold our motto: E Pluribus Unum.”…

Addressing one of the most sensitive issues in the measure, Bush expressed hope that the changes would reduce the need for a fence along the border with Mexico…

The proposed fence has drawn protests in Texas, where officials fear it will hinder commerce and cause environmental problems.

“The fence sends a clear signal that we’re serious about enforcing the border,” Bush said. “A lot of these ranchers down there are saying, `Wait a minute. Bad idea.’ I presume we’re not going to build a fence on places where people don’t want it.”

The suggestion that people who haven’t grown up with Hispanics don’t appreciate their humanity and the vaguely derisive tone with which he refers to the “element” that fears a large unassimilated population are merely annoying, and par for the course at this point. But what’s with the bit about the fence? To what does that word “changes” refer? Does he mean the changes that are being made … by the amnesty bill? Is he actually suggesting that legalizing 12 million people is a reason to keep the borders open?

I must be misreading it. Even he can’t seriously be suggesting that. Maybe by “changes” he means changes in our willingness to welcome illegals into society, the better to assimilate them. But he can’t mean that either since that will only encourage more people to cross over. Or is that the whole point? For all the goofing I do on the nuts who believe in the North American Union, I’m nonetheless moved to ask whether Bush sees any limit to the number of illegals he believes we should take in. 30 million? 60 million? He says in another part of the interview, “I am worried that a backlash to newcomers would cause our country to lose its great capacity to assimilate newcomers.” Does he see no correlation between the numbers and the likelihood of a backlash?

And as for his presumption that “we’re not going to build a fence on places where people don’t want it,” since when does the president of the United States give veto power over security matters to private landowners? Governments don’t mind using eminent domain to build hotels for their lobbyist pals, but they do mind using it to claim ten feet of border residents’ land?

Exit question: Is Kaus right about Bush seeing this as his “Abe Lincoln moment”? “El Gran Libertador”? Because they’re still not going to vote Republican, you know.. Not that he cares at this point, if he ever did.


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Uuuuggghh.

Bush’s detention facilities

MrC_5150 on May 31, 2007 at 2:40 PM

Bush: Amnesty bill will reduce the need for a fence(?)

Makes sense, since we’re either changing our laws and/or simply not enforcing them, there really is no need for a fence.

Maybe we should start an immigrant shuttle service between Mexican cities and American cities, (we could pay for it by eliminating the border patrol).

Then all we need to do is watch the people getting on and off the shuttles, kind of like we do with airplanes… ’cause that’s working out so well…

Consequence would be less immigration because getting through shuttle security would be such a pain in the butt.

{sarcasm intended, of course}

Lawrence on May 31, 2007 at 2:45 PM

When you grow up in Texas like I did, you recognize the decency and humanity of Hispanics.

Well then,, I propose all illegals be relegated to living and working in Texas if that is the one place that they “behave” themselves so well per the President’s opine.. Plus , they’d be so much closer to their families.

normsrevenge on May 31, 2007 at 2:50 PM

I think you guys are being counter productive. I can complain till I’m red in the face, make my point and never say a bad word about you.

tomas on May 31, 2007 at 2:55 PM

Maybe the REAL fence we need is all around Washington DC, to keep the people there, OUTIN

NRA4Freedom on May 31, 2007 at 12:40 PM

Fixed it.

PattyAnn on May 31, 2007 at 2:58 PM

I think you guys are being counter productive. I can complain till I’m red in the face, make my point and never say a bad word about you.

tomas on May 31, 2007 at 2:55 PM

You have yet to make a valid point.

Gregor on May 31, 2007 at 3:12 PM

tomas,

Again I’ve been paying attention to politics my whole life and all of a sudden you guys want something done.

Have you now? New’s flash, this isn’t all of a sudden if you were actually as an astute observer of politics as you claim you would know this.

That is because you are trying to take advantage of a president when his #’s aren’t high.

No, it’s because we have been demanding something be done for years and now Bush is trying to cram down our throats a bill that we do not want. We have been down this road before, 1968, 1986, 1994, 1997, 1998, 2000 and it hasn’t worked. A sign of insanity is when you keep attempting the exact same thing over and over expecting a different result. We know on the other hand that Eisenhower’s tactics which included operations Wetback and Bracero had spectacularly positive results.

It’s like this issue just became important.

Again, were you the astute observer of history and politics you assert yourself to be you would not be making this absurd claim.

I really think you guys are hypocrits.

Considering that you havent gotten anything else here right I’m really not surprised.

I think you look foolish…

Well thats two consective Ad Hominem attacks in a row, shall we try for three?

he is warning you…be smart enough to realize it and you will get what you want.

Oh there it is..number 4?

Geez, this is the party of Reagan?

Got you covered right there.

Odd how your little diatribes lack facts or rational logical reasoning but are immersed instead with emotive non-sequiturious derisions.

doriangrey on May 31, 2007 at 3:12 PM

MrC_5150,

My cat submitted my comment before I’d finished:

Your cats tin-foil hat must have come off rendering it susceptible to the Evil Bush’s mind control and now it is trying to sabotage you.

doriangrey on May 31, 2007 at 3:15 PM

Well, we’ll listen if they can go a day or two without suggesting that anyone opposed to amnesty is a white supremicist racist scumbag.

Yeah, isn’t calling us all racists kind of….racist?

NellE on May 31, 2007 at 3:26 PM

You been down that road before…I don’t remember anyone being so meanspirited before. I think you are being intellectually dishonest to dispute this.

I can’t talk about change when you can’t agree to speak logically. All I hear on this site is insults.

tomas on May 31, 2007 at 3:28 PM

heatherrc77 on May 31, 2007 at 1:52 PM

Right on, Heather.

StephC on May 31, 2007 at 3:40 PM

tomas

I think you are being intellectually dishonest to dispute this.

More Ad Hominem attacks in place of rational dialog.

I can’t talk about change when you can’t agree to speak logically. All I hear on this site is insults.

Followed by..more Ad Hominem’s…….

You have yet to make a single rational or logical suggestion, when asked to do so you resort to Ad Hominem attacks. Despite your assertions otherwise my posts here clearly indicate not only a capacity for but a willingness and even preference for engaging in rational logical dialog. Show me where you have made any equivocal attempt to do likewise?

doriangrey on May 31, 2007 at 3:40 PM

tomas on May 31, 2007 at 2:03 PM

Tomas, you may have been paying attention, but your powers of observation are terrible.

This site has only been around a year, though, no doubt, the vast majority commenters here have haven’t changed their positions since Bush was first elected. In one way or another, we’ve been opposed to catering to lawbreaking line jumpers at the expense of those who have waited in line.

The constant chorus of complaints about Bush’s lackadaisical attitude on enforcement of our laws culminated in the what little we could get in the way more enforcement provisions nominally described as the 700 miles of border fence, a fence which Bush opposed and surely chuckled at when funding for it wasn’t included. While I’ll guess most of us here aren’t a part of the Minutemen group, they concerns were similar about the rampant disrespect of our laws, by both alien border jumpers and federal politicians, and it was complementary actions such as their’s that forced the government to augment Border Patrol with our National Guard.

You mistake not doing anything with the time for that effort to coalesce. Storming the Bastille at the drop of the hat because our elected representatives don’t jump when some faction cries jump is not the way things are or should be done here. It takes a lot longer for grassroots movements to get government to move when our representatives oppose such actions.

And you ought to learn the difference between coincidence, correlation and causation. We are not taking advantage of Bush’s low ratings. He is taking advantage of Democratic majority to shove his personal conception of his unique compassion down his supporters throats and slandering our motives in the process.

Bush is legacy shopping and willing to sell the soul of America — respect for the rule of law — to buy it. But he’ll be gone in a year and a half, and the vaunted overhaul will still be a shambles, border security will still be a joke and respect for the new laws will be a bigger joke than the previous ones. That’s why we are so vocal now.

Love that Party of Reagan line, though. Reagan proclaimed we would start anew on controlling our borders and at the same time provide a one-time amnesty he was honest enough to call an amnesty and he did all that about a year and a half before he was obliged to leave the office where his greatest ability to keep that promise rested.

Dusty on May 31, 2007 at 3:51 PM

tomas…two words “BITE ME ” !

DoctorDentons on May 31, 2007 at 3:55 PM

We have never controlled our borders. You are telling me you didn’t know Bush’s Feelings on Illegal Aliens when you voted for him (if you did).

Do you think a fence is going to stop people. Did you see Penn & Teller. It took these guys 4 minutes to get over and under this thing. You can waste the money building something that isn’t going to work or you can go after the source…those hiring.

I’m sorry joe smoe…you’re breaking the law…get a new business. Any Illegal caught not having gone through guest worker processing, BEFORE entering should lose that right for 10 years. Caught again…for life. You should not be allowed to enter without finishing naturalization program. You must speak english enough to fill out an application without help etc.

From my perspective ANYthing we do no other than Militarization of the border isn’t going to work. This has to be solved by breaking down the network here at home that has allowed these potential voters to feel as if they are already part of our country…this is the bad part. Those Mexicans were booing Miss america because they already think they are citizens of our country.

My way is a harsh way…but internal discourse will only add to the power of the illegal. It makes those harsh measures harder and harder to carry out.

There is no respect for our culture.

tomas on May 31, 2007 at 4:07 PM

Sheesh! HotAir is quickly turning into a hatefest!

Easy on the name calling people, and lets just simply debate the facts! (unless of course you want to turn this into a conservative DailyKos).

Anyways, my two cents is this.

- We need to secure the border militarily. We have too many enemies around the world not to, and its by God’s grace that we haven’t been hit yet.

I propose using the national guard to guard our national borders. Anyone else for this option?

- We need to build a wall (yes, you heard me) 20 ft high and 10 ft deep (and one foot thick). Once an area is secured with a wall, redeploy the national guard elsewhere.

I’ll let the pundits argue whether or not we should give full citizenship to illegal aliens. But before we decide one way or the other, WE MUST SECURE OUR BORDERS!!!!!!!

Darnell Clayton on May 31, 2007 at 4:22 PM

Some of you people seem to think this problem is going to go away because you type in some blog that you’re pissed off?

Find a way!

It’s really not that hard if you feel it’s important.

Gregor on May 31, 2007 at 1:42 PM

Wow, I got a spanking from Gregor for working 3 jobs and not having time to protest. Um Gregor, I do protest. I make phone calls, I send emails, I vote, I aggravate the hell out of most of my friends who could give a shit to hear about anything but American Idol. But I’m self employed and don’t have the $ or a day off to jump in my car and drive 10 hours to walk around with a stupid sign in my hand. Chill brother!

soulsirkus on May 31, 2007 at 4:43 PM

“We have never controlled our borders. You are telling me you didn’t know Bush’s Feelings on Illegal Aliens when you voted for him (if you did).”

tomas on May 31, 2007 at 4:07 PM

Never say never, tomas ’cause one example is all that is needed to refute you. We’ve been very strict on immigration at times, successfully so, though I note its debatable whether that success was not also a detriment to our economy.

And who’s telling you they didn’t know his feelings on Illegal Aliens and what’s your point? As for the fence, I don’t base my estimation of whether fences stop people on Penn and Teller skits. I judge them on the Berlin Wall, the Israeili security fence, the Indian Security fence, the Pakistani Security fence, the Maginot Line, the Great Wall and the wide and varied assortment of fences surrounding yards and property across not just America (um, like the White House and the Capitol) but in nations across the world.

Sure, they are not perfect and yes, they some people will try to get around over or under them, and no kidding that a fence alone won’t work. But to just assert fences don’t work is the laziest and the most eaily disproven argument on this side of the universe, unless, of course, it’s written into in the script.

Dusty on May 31, 2007 at 4:45 PM

Military…would we do this.

tomas on May 31, 2007 at 4:57 PM

He went through all the hoops to become legal and after about 25 years of waiting he is now a bonafied US Citizen.

THIS is the root of the problem right there. 25 yrs of waiting. That is ridiculous.

Rightwingsparkle on May 31, 2007 at 5:17 PM

Wow, I got a spanking from Gregor for working 3 jobs and not having time to protest.

But I’m self employed and don’t have the $ or a day off to jump in my car and drive 10 hours to walk around with a stupid sign in my hand. Chill brother!

soulsirkus on May 31, 2007 at 4:43 PM

Nice. There was no spanking for working three jobs. Trust me, I didn’t mean to attack your work ethic. The spanking was for using that as an excuse. I admire you for the letters, faxes, and phone calls. I’ve been doing the same thing for a year now. But this is not going to make a d@mn bit of difference, unless you think our Senators are somehow unaware that we’re pissed off. Bush, and the rest of our leaders are well aware of our feelings on this issue. They simply choose to ignore it. Your faxes are not going to be what stops this bill. It’s going to be an uprising of the people that does it, if that ever happens. The situation will not change until they fear that we will take to the streets in mass.

As for your phone calls, faxes, and emails … do you really think they’re listening? What gives you that indication?

Two hours of your time. Hell! ONE hour will do!

You don’t need to drive ten hours. Unless you’re living in the center of a desert somewhere, I guarantee you there’s protesters somewhere within 50 miles of your doorstep every weekend. If you would like, I can hook you up with them quite easily.

Gregor on May 31, 2007 at 5:42 PM

Military…would we do this.

tomas

Any President who truly had the best interest of his country and the people in it would have put the military on the border long ago while a fence was built. Alas, cheap labor seems to be the most important thing on his mind.

darwin on May 31, 2007 at 6:12 PM

Alas, cheap labor seems to be the most important thing on his mind.

darwin on May 31, 2007 at 6:12 PM

Or something even worse.

Gregor on May 31, 2007 at 6:18 PM

THIS is the root of the problem right there. 25 yrs of waiting. That is ridiculous.

Rightwingsparkle on May 31, 2007 at 5:17 PM

Very ridiculous.

heatherrc77 on May 31, 2007 at 6:38 PM

Hey,

If you legalize rape and murder there will be less need to protect people from rape and murder. It only makes sense.

Good-bye GOP. Even if I would vote for you again, you’re signing your own death warrant.

cmay on May 31, 2007 at 10:07 PM

iViva Jorge Boosh!

SilverStar830 on May 31, 2007 at 10:13 PM

What is that tone, AP…incredulity? This is new for you. No savvy, cynical, worldliness…just amazement.

Welcome to my world. Bush has gone off the reservation.

Jaibones on June 1, 2007 at 12:14 AM

LOL! Half of the posts here sound like Andrew Sullivan when Bush came out for a federal marriage amendment!

I’ve voted for Bush twice; I support the war in Iraq, but am vehemently opposed to the current immigration package. I think it’s a serious mistake not to insist on border integrity first, but it’s not like Bush’s stance came as a surprise. He’s been quite consistent, and it’s absolutely typical pro-business, “compassionate conservative” (vs real conservative) stuff, and he’s “selling” it the same way he’s sells everything else he tries to do, more’s the pity in the case of Iraq & the GWOT, IMO.

Bush may not get the “reforms” he wants, but he didn’t suddenly turn into an idiot — he’s going for whatever votes, he thinks he might get, and he knows they’re not coming from Hot Air regulars. I’m not quite sure why conservatives think Bush owes them for their past support when I can’t think of any other group who have so regularly threatened to jump ship over one issue after another. Does “not one dime” ring any bells?

JM Hanes on June 1, 2007 at 1:32 AM

Hi heatherrc77!

Having to post without a preview window is a real bummer, isn’t it? I can’t get used to the new fangled formatting buttons, so now and then when I have a longish post with multiple tags, I actually trundle off to another site to use the preview function there, before coming back to hit “Submit” over here. If I’m the only one who does that, then I’m pretty damn impressed with everybody else. At any rate, the tricky part for me is remembering to expunge my trial runs elsewhere….

JM Hanes on June 1, 2007 at 1:47 AM

You guys left him long ago…He owes you nothing. You scream about that which you disagree and you whimper quietly on that which you agree. Very sad.

tomas on June 1, 2007 at 7:21 AM

You guys left him long ago…He owes you nothing. You scream about that which you disagree and you whimper quietly on that which you agree. Very sad.

tomas on June 1, 2007 at 7:21 AM

So with all these illegals taking all the jobs, what are all the people living on welfare supposed to do? What about all those dis-placed workers when the mills moved out of the country. And in 20 years when all the illegal alien “anchor” babies flood our job market, will they do the same work as their parents, or expect better?

I’m thinking the “Three America’s” is looking good right now. “First America = John Edward’s type wealth,” “Second America = Average Workers, $30K-$180K per year,” and “Third America = unskilled labor force, temporary work visa, no citizenship, you leave after 5 years and don’t come back for 5 years.” I think this is how Japan and Korea do it.

Wuptdo on June 7, 2007 at 11:39 AM

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