Linda Chavez: If you’re against open borders, you might be a Nazi

posted at 8:17 pm on May 30, 2007 by Allahpundit

That’s a paraphrase, of course, but only a slight one. Dig it:

Some people just don’t like Mexicans — or anyone else from south of the border. They think Latinos are freeloaders and welfare cheats who are too lazy to learn English. They think Latinos have too many babies, and that Latino kids will dumb down our schools. They think Latinos are dirty, diseased, indolent and more prone to criminal behavior. They think Latinos are just too different from us ever to become real Americans.

No amount of hard, empirical evidence to the contrary, and no amount of reasoned argument or appeals to decency and fairness, will convince this small group of Americans — fewer than 10 percent of the general population, at most — otherwise. Unfortunately, among this group is a fair number of Republican members of Congress, almost all influential conservative talk radio hosts, some cable news anchors — most prominently, Lou Dobbs — and a handful of public policy “experts” at organizations such as the Center for Immigration Studies, the Federation for American Immigration Reform, NumbersUSA, in addition to fringe groups like the Minuteman Project.

I don’t have much to add to what See-Dub said, but if you don’t know who Chavez is, please note: she’s not a leftist, no matter how classically leftist this “argument” might be. Not only is she a conservative, she was Bush’s nominee to be Secretary of Labor in 2001 — before she withdrew due to suspicions that she had hired illegal aliens. Most of you know that, of course, but I want to make sure everyone understands where this rhetoric is coming from. First it was Chertoff, then Bush, now Chavez: three Republicans, one of them president, another a cabinet member, the third a would-be cabinet member, all not merely criticizing the base’s position on amnesty but impugning their character for taking that position.

If you’re following the headlines section you’ve already seen this from Rush Limbaugh’s show today, but it bears repeating:

The thing that is most troublesome to me is that the words that he spoke yesterday were a criticism of the people who have stood by him through thick and thin. When everybody’s been trying to destroy him, be it the National Guard story, take your pick, Rumsfeld, the entire war in Iraq, the whole weapons of mass destruction thing, people have stood by him, and because they trust him and believe him on those issues…

I’ve told you what I think the president’s motivations here are on the immigration bill, and I think they’re far loftier motivations than political, frankly. I think they have to do with his desire to help the less fortunate around the world to realize dreams, his belief in this country as a way to get it done. But this criticism of his base is going to be problematic for him because the left is going to keep up their incessant harping on Iraq, and he needs people to support him on this. He needs to have a base of support that will not waver…

I just wish he hadn’t done it because he’s not going to lose me on Iraq, and he’s not going to lose me on national security, he’s not going to lose me on the war on terror, but he might lose some of you, and that might mean losing some of your votes for other Republicans because the president’s not on any ballot anymore, but other Republicans are. The people who have hung with you, you don’t just cast them aside in an even casual sense. That’s the thing about this that troubles me, that’s what’s the saddest aspect of this, to me.

Exit question: How many of us has he already lost?

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The entire Republican Party is losing its direction . . . and its collective mind.

rplat on May 30, 2007 at 8:20 PM

I wish Bush had heeded Fred Thompson’s advice when he said he thought the White House had not figured out that immigration was connected to support for the Iraq war. Tone deaf is all I can think of — The legacy, the Harriet Meyers President.

As for the Republicans, there is a food fight between the Republicans and the Conservatives. A lot is going to depend on who the nominee is, if it is not someone that the Conservative base can back … toast.

tarpon on May 30, 2007 at 8:24 PM

I see Bush differently now. He is the elitest, he doesn’t care about destroying the middle class, he doesn’t care if he lowers wages or imports crime and bankrupts social security. I used to be one of his staunches supporters, even when I disagreed. And it’s not because of Bush that I don’t support many republicans these days, it’s because the lot of them are weak, spinless sellouts.

JustTruth101 on May 30, 2007 at 8:24 PM

He lost me.

geoff on May 30, 2007 at 8:26 PM

What a presumptuous crypto-racist biyatch.

Presuming to know that the thoughts of those who want to defend their national integrity are really some secret KIND OF racism.

Fire this public sloth. Save her wasted salary.

And build the wall that much higher.

profitsbeard on May 30, 2007 at 8:26 PM

Linda Freda Chavez: If you’re against open borders, you might be a Nazi

Fixed.

thirteen28 on May 30, 2007 at 8:26 PM

In retrospect, something he said on the day after he won a second term in 2004 now makes sense to me. I don’t normally remember quotes for a week, let alone three years, but this one had a funny ring. He said, “Now I have political capital, and I intend to spend it.” As the dust clears, it meant, “Thanks for your vote, suckah!”

laelaps on May 30, 2007 at 8:29 PM

Bush lost me…. as has the Republican party…

Romeo13 on May 30, 2007 at 8:30 PM

What is really disappointing about this is that Bush & Co. are using the liberal strategy of demonizing their opposition when they can’t answer the criticism. This is the same political team that has refused to fight hammer and tongs against the Democrats, but now are all too willing to call their own constituency a bunch of KKK-loving, neo-Nazis. Why won’t Bush do this with Reid, Pelosi, Dean or Kennedy?

Bush and Rove may have the worst political sense in the history of American politics. Ann Coulter said as much in 2005 when she pointed out that he lost the popular vote to such a dufus as Gore and then barely beat an elitist, anti-American jerk in ’04.

cmay on May 30, 2007 at 8:32 PM

WASHINGTON – CONGRESS IS SET TO END ITS SESSION NEXT WEEK WITH A VOTE ON AN $820 BILLION APPROPRIATIONS BILL, CAPPING TWO YEARS OF RECORD-LEVEL SPENDING ECONOMISTS SAY HAS RAISED THE PER-HOUSEHOLD OUTLAY TO ITS HIGHEST SINCE WORLD WAR II.

He lost me way back in 2003.

Valiant on May 30, 2007 at 8:33 PM

They have lost my financial support. After helping to elect that flaming idiot, Arlen the Specter, I’m through. He wore me out. Why contribute to the republicans, then have them elected and act like stupid democraps??? Nope, no more money from me.

Term limits. Conservative Party.

Zorro on May 30, 2007 at 8:34 PM

Hey, let’s look on the bright side…at least he’s answering his critics!

I’m pretty upset by this. I’ve supported the president since before the 2000 NH primary, even going so far as to walk door-to-door in the freezing cold to pass out campaign material.

In 2004, I donated to his campaign, worked the phone banks and drove people to the polls.

And this is the thanks I get?

Slublog on May 30, 2007 at 8:35 PM

I emailed Chavez about her column and she actually responded. Did she address any of the concerns I raise (such as the specific problems with this bill, the national security issues, issue of fairness, etc.)? No of course not. All she did was copy a bunch of comments left on the feed by anonymous posters who made stupid, idiotic and racists comments to justify her point.

BTW–Bush’s comments in the speech yesterday were completely false and disingenuous (“it’s clear they hadn’t read the bill” and “it you don’t want to do what’s right for America..” The reason most people hate this bill is because they’ve read all the stupid little provisions in it (no back taxes, only 24 hours for the background check, etc..) which are unacceptable. This bill is exactly what’s wrong for America. It places political calculations and the thoughts of poorly educated low skilled “workers” over the safety and security of average Americans (and legal immigrants).

truthmattersfa on May 30, 2007 at 8:37 PM

It’s just so damn depressing lately. Not each the prospect of Fred! jumping in the race can make me feel funny in the pants..

ulyses on May 30, 2007 at 8:41 PM

Rush is right. It’s not the bad bill. Bad bills come and go. It’s the arrogance, the condescension, the elitist “drafting in the dark”, the “unnamed government official” who happens to head Homeland Security who thinks I want to execute illegals.

Most of all, it’s the McCains of the world who think they gain power when they gain office. They gain not power, but the opposite: servitude. And now they’re upset because a very gentle reminder of this essential republican fact has been served upon them.

Serve it again. It’s best served cold, and a man best know who his betters are.

HerrMorgenholz on May 30, 2007 at 8:41 PM

Hey, let’s look on the bright side…at least he’s answering his critics!

Yeah he pummels his base without lifting a finger against the liberals in 7 years.

Valiant on May 30, 2007 at 8:41 PM

Bush has lost me but I am still with the conservatives. Bush has left the building.

Wade on May 30, 2007 at 8:43 PM

As the last great Republican President (and unfortunately, it looks like he might be the *last* great Republican President) might have said, “I didn’t leave the Republican Party, the Republican Party left me.”

hindmost on May 30, 2007 at 8:43 PM

Yeah he pummels his base without lifting a finger against the liberals in 7 years.
Valiant on May 30, 2007 at 8:41 PM

A finger? Heck, I would have been happy with an eyebrow.

Slublog on May 30, 2007 at 8:44 PM

Especially vile:

more prone to criminal behavior

Latinos do have a higher violent crime rate, just as blacks have an even higher one. How are we supposed to tackle these problems if we lie about them? And intimidate people into not wanting to talk about them? Apart from language and academics (where latinos also lag), what could be a greater assimilation problem than this?

She may say that she’s accusing people of claiming inherent criminality in latinos, ie there’s nothing that can be done. But if she really gave a damn about the problem of latino criminality, the greatest victims of which are of course latinos themselves, she wouldn’t waste time with such a stupid straw man in the first place. She’d acknowledge the problem and understand that talking about is made more difficult if doing so gets you called a bigot and a hater of latinos.

Anyway, since she names names/organizations, the extent of her slander and her own bigotry is clear. When pushed (say by commenter “truthmattersfa” above) she may cite anonymous internet posters making authentically nasty remarks, but in her column she names CIS , FAIR and NumbersUSA. These are thoughtful, fair-minded groups who study and argue this issue in precisely the moderate tone that it should have. Accusing them of being bigoted against Mexicans, let alone not liking them, requires willful ignorance of their careful work, as well as a dishonorable willingness to say or do anything to reach her political ends.

Alex K on May 30, 2007 at 8:47 PM

Point 1: Support for Bush on Iraq CAN be separate from support for Bush on Immigration. They are two separate issues. I support Bush on the former, not the later.

Point 2: Ms. Chevez is, indeed, a conservative. However, her position on the topic is colored by her hiring of illegal aliens herself.

Point 3: For those who intend to abandon the Republican party ENTIRELY over this need to understand the mindset of those who commit suicide. Many times they are trying to PUNISH someone else, for whatever reason.

Abandoning the Republicans means YOU ARE GOING TO GIVE THE GOVERNMENT TO THE TRAITOR PARTY IN 2008!

Doing that is *STUPID*! It is the equivalent of putting the muzzle of a gun in your mouth and pulling the trigger in order to punish the Republicans.

You won’t. Your suicide won’t punish the Republican Party.

What you’ll actually be doing is punishing America.

You’ll be putting the TRAITORS and AL QAEDA SUPPORTERS in charge of the government. You’ll be GUARANTEEING another 9/11. You’ll be putting the a$$holes into power that let Al Qaeda strike America repeatedly during Clinton; the same people who made Al Qaeda strong through their inaction.

Learn to separate the Immigration issue from the war issue.

Fight like HELL to kill the amnesty program. But win or lose on that issue, remember, OUR COUNTRY IS AT WAR WITH PEOPLE WHO DON’T GIVE A SH*T about illegal immigration. Put the Democraps in power and YOU will be praying towards Mecca 5 times a day, OR YOU AND YOUR FAMILY WILL BE DEAD!

Do not be stuck on stupid!

georgej on May 30, 2007 at 8:52 PM

Bush didn’t lose me but then he never had me to begin with. I can happily say that I didn’t vote for the open borders, big government, not planning the occupation, worst President outside of Jimmah Cartah this country has ever seen.

Benaiah on May 30, 2007 at 8:52 PM

I think what hit me in the gut the hardest was the way the entire administration spoke with one voice both in supporting the bill and in condemning those who opposed it. Their voice is loud, the words and implications unmistakeable, the language strong, and the message clear. Where was this concerning Iraq? Where was this concerning CIA leaks? Where was this concerning judicial filibusters? Why this language towards the base?

Weight of Glory on May 30, 2007 at 8:56 PM

Very, very well said, Alex K.

OneEyedJack on May 30, 2007 at 8:59 PM

Boy, they talk about the rush to war in Iraq as if it had happened overnight, not over a period of 12 years and 14 UN statements (that’s all they are, just words with no weight).

But THIS is happening fast. And speed in politics requires the squelching of dissent by any means necessary.

OneEyedJack on May 30, 2007 at 9:05 PM

You won’t. Your suicide won’t punish the Republican Party.

Who said anything about suicide? Who is trying to punish the GOP?

The Republican power structure and the majority of Americans who will vote in the government you fear are in need of an intervention.

Sometimes you have to hit rock bottom before things have a chance of improving. We crossed the threshold years ago where the federal government became too large to be fixable.

A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world’s greatest civilizations has been 200 years.

Great nations rise and fall. The people go from bondage to spiritual truth, to great courage, from courage to liberty, from liberty to abundance, from abundance to selfishness, from selfishness to complacency, from complacency to apathy, from apathy to dependence, from dependence back again to bondage.

unknown

On the bright side, there are always pockets of resistance and self-sufficient people living free.

Valiant on May 30, 2007 at 9:06 PM

They think Latinos … will dumb down our schools.

Linda Chavez

No … that’s the Teacher’s Union job. And the Federal Government helps of course.

Maxx on May 30, 2007 at 9:08 PM

Bush has lost his way. It is sad. How dare he question my patriotism. He has made a mockery of the Republican party. Iraq is not my issue with him. Its his appeasement to the latinos that illegally enter this nation. His policy on border security and illegal immigration is pure disgusting.

msipes on May 30, 2007 at 9:09 PM

Pretty soon we can stop calling it Mexican food and just call it food.

JackStraw on May 30, 2007 at 9:16 PM

anyone see McCain on the O’Reilly Factor tonight..

OR: Are you going to guarantee me that the Southern Border is going to be secured, that it will be locked down so these people can’t come across? Are you going to guarantee me and put your good name on it sir?

McCain: “I guarantee you that we will hire 20,000 new Border Patrol, that we will build 300 miles of fencing, that we’ll use UAV’s (sp?) and sensors, etc..

So no, you won’t guarantee that the southern border will be secured…well done, McCain.

Also, earlier
McCain: “We’re talking about fines, We’re talking about learning English, We’re talking about everything short of deportation to make sure that illegal behavior is punished…You’ve got 2 choices here Bill, you can either round up and deport 12 million people and I know of no one who thinks that is a good idea, nor practicable, or you make sure that you do everything possible to make sure that they pay a very heavy price for having acted illegally and breaking our laws.”

truthmattersfa on May 30, 2007 at 9:26 PM

I’ve come to see the Republican Party as two camps. On one side are the common-sense, national security oriented, fiscally responsible, small government Reaganesque conservatives. On the other are the open-borders, big money, big business, arrogant D.C. elitist RINOs, who are giving the rest of us the middle finger.

I will continue to vote for the former, but not the latter. There has to be more than just an ‘R’ after the name, they have to stand up for what is right for America.

infidel4life on May 30, 2007 at 9:27 PM

They think Latinos are freeloaders and welfare cheats who are too lazy to learn English. They think Latinos have too many babies, and that Latino kids will dumb down our schools. They think Latinos are dirty, diseased, indolent and more prone to criminal behavior. They think Latinos are just too different from us ever to become real Americans.

I wish to heaven that the people who call people fascists, nazis and others would just spend 45mins seriously researching what a Nazi thinks and how they feel about minorities. I mean hell just go google any neo-nazi group and see what they truly think of Latinos and African Americans and Jews and others and then tell me how our arguments against open borders can be construed this way. its willing ignorance on a grand scale.

Defector01 on May 30, 2007 at 9:27 PM

About the violence thing, Iraq was the deadliest country in the world for reporters in 2006. Not too surprising given that there is a war going on. But I wouldn’t have guessed this.

Vera Cruz crime reporter becomes seventh journalist murdered this year in Mexico, making it second-most dangerous country for press, after Iraq

JackStraw on May 30, 2007 at 9:28 PM

I might be a Nazi ‘eh… Ziek Heil! National Security!

E L Frederick (Sniper One) on May 30, 2007 at 9:30 PM

Well Chertoff told us that anything short of the death penalty would be considered amnesty too. And these are the guys who are supposed to be on our side.

LakeRuins on May 30, 2007 at 9:30 PM

This bill must not pass. Once we kill it the Neocon purge can begin.

Why does Rush think Bush wants to help “the less fortunate around the world to realize dreams?” Its the oil stupid. Mexico has been dangling that carrot for a long time. Well guess what? We don’t need your oil, we have our own. I am so tired of Bush.

Theworldisnotenough on May 30, 2007 at 9:33 PM

Dig it:

Like a Rolling Stone….

Like the F B I……

And the C I A…..

And the B B C….

B B King….

And Doris Day,

Dig It, Dig It, Dig It, Dig It, Dig It, Dig It

Jack M. on May 30, 2007 at 9:37 PM

Who even cares about race? What a strawman. The destruction of the middle class and the erosion of the standard of living is what is important.

What kind of a moron do you have to be to actually believe that importing impovrished, uneducated people is good for the economy.

Resolute on May 30, 2007 at 9:39 PM

Theworldisnotenough,

we have our own.

HOLY SH%T somebody get AP to do a article on this…….

doriangrey on May 30, 2007 at 9:42 PM

I feel like I am living in bizzaro world.

robblefarian on May 30, 2007 at 9:43 PM

Kudos to the New Majority, the RMSP and the Bush dynasty.

What the left hadn’t been able to do in 75 years, the utter and complete destruction of the GOP, they now stand on the precipice of having accomplished in less than 10, albeit with the aid of a disloyal opposition.

The ‘enemy within’ comes in many shades and owes an allegiance to no one save themselves.

normsrevenge on May 30, 2007 at 9:52 PM

The fact that illegal immigration is directly linked to national security, the GWOT, and Iraq is lost on the Bush administration and thank God that administration is nearing its end. Sad to think that Bush, who seldom said a word against the Democrats would now take such pleasure in kicking his own political base in the teeth on a daily basis. Without the base the Republicans will lose in 2008 and no amount of telling us how bad the other side is will make us forget or forgive these insults.

Buzzy on May 30, 2007 at 9:54 PM

Rush is right. It’s not the bad bill. Bad bills come and go. It’s the arrogance, the condescension, the elitist “drafting in the dark”, the “unnamed government official” who happens to head Homeland Security who thinks I want to execute illegals.

Actually, with me (and many others I’m sure), it is the bad bill. However, the arrogance, condescension, the elitism, the refusal to answer the critics or even acknowledge that there are good faith reasons for opposing such a bad bill is a is an awful lot of salt rubbed in an already large wound.

thirteen28 on May 30, 2007 at 9:58 PM

The President, not content with demonizing just the Minutemen he now alienates (pun intended) a couple hundred million Americans, shame on us.

Apparently three quarters of us are racist bigots, just wait worse still, we’re probably vigilantes too.

Interestingly, now after taking flak for nearly anything and everything and doing all but nothing; suddenly the President and his allies are willing to fight…very strange.

Speakup on May 30, 2007 at 9:59 PM

It seems to me that the President has always cared more about what the Democrats thought than about what the good people who elected him did.

calnevari on May 30, 2007 at 10:03 PM

Blind as a bat and deaf as a rock. The administration has the steering wheel lock engaged and no amount of yelling from the back seat is going to get the driver to stop. Put your seatbelts on cause we’re going to hit a wall(pun intended).

Limerick on May 30, 2007 at 10:07 PM

In the past, whenever I’ve heard lefties say that the Bush administration has called people names and questioned their patriotism, etc… well, I always thought they were nuts. But I can see how they might have felt that way if, perhaps, he was using the same sort of rhetoric and I just didn’t notice it because I agreed with him on the issue.

DaveS on May 30, 2007 at 10:07 PM

I left the democrats to get away from this crap but now its followed me here in a way

Defector01 on May 30, 2007 at 10:19 PM

Georgej,

Abandoning the Republicans means YOU ARE GOING TO GIVE THE GOVERNMENT TO THE TRAITOR PARTY IN 2008!

Doing that is *STUPID*! It is the equivalent of putting the muzzle of a gun in your mouth and pulling the trigger in order to punish the Republicans.

I fail to see the logic in the above. One should vote for your fiscally irresponsible, big government, open borders party because the other fiscally irresponsible, big government, open borders party is the dangerous one.

I’ve only seen this kind of horrendous miscalculation once before. Guy by the name of Brian Mulroney. He rammed through unpopular legislation and a whole host of things that didn’t go over too well with his base. Killed any sort of national conservative movement up here for over a decade.

The only people up against the (figurative) wall right now are the leaders of the GOP. A house cleaning is in order down there, and it may cost some time in the wilderness. Overall, it will be worth it.

Krydor on May 30, 2007 at 10:23 PM

Put the Democraps in power and YOU will be praying towards Mecca 5 times a day, OR YOU AND YOUR FAMILY WILL BE DEAD!

Do not be stuck on stupid!

georgej on May 30, 2007 at 8:52 PM

geaorgej,

Don’t kill the messenger when you read this and realize that I’m only explaining the historical reality of your position.

If the Republican Party relies on the slogan “Vote for us because the other party sucks!” then they’ve already lost. Conservatives vote for people. Case in point, Bush41 lost because he gave economic conservatives a reason to stay home or vote third party. Despite the weakness of Bill Clinton’s candidacy, he won.

Next: In ’96 Dole/Kemp relied on the negative feelings toward Clinton. Result: 4 more years of Clinton.

In 2006 the Republicans had completely alienated their base with corruption and overspending. They ran on the notion that we can’t let Nancy Pelosi be Speaker of the House at such a critical time. They lost.

Conservatives will vote for someone with great ideas, but they won’t lift a finger to fight a rear-guard skirmish while Vandals are sacking Rome. Unless the Republican Party learns this, look forward to losing even more ground in ’08. Your protestations (which are reasonable and logical) will not deliver a victory.

Bush, Chertoff, Chavez, McConnell, McCain, Huckabee, Perdue, et al (all prominent Republicans) have called a clear majority of the American people (including a majority of Democrats who support enforcement) a bunch of racists. They refuse to listen to the American people. They are arrogant and condescending. They have done all they can to make the base take a walk. So don’t blame the base for taking that walk. Blame Bush, Chertoff, Chavez, McConnell, McCain, et al. Get mad at them for pissing away what little goodwill is left toward the Republican Party.

cmay on May 30, 2007 at 10:27 PM

I really like Linda Chavez. She has an excellent think tank that battles bilingual education and affirmative action: The Center of Equal Opportunity. Before unloading on her too much, check out the site.

Her comments are off here. What conservatives are against (including her) is the lack of assimilation that liberals try to hoist in the public schools upon Latinos through bilingual education and affirmative action. However, she doesn’t seem to understand the security threat. Everyone in the world now is now flying to Mexico to cross the U.S. border illegally. Does she not get that that is the reason why conservatives are against this immigration bill?

I can understand why Mexicans are coming here in droves: most to escape their backward, corrupt country. However, we need to secure our borders.

And one more thing: No conservative thinks Latinos are “dirty, diseased, indolent and more prone to criminal behavior.” This stereotype about being dirty and indolent is long gone. They are very hardworking, which is why employers want them. For my job, I have to meet many Latinos and I find them always extremely polite and respectful. However, they are more prone to gang activity like the very destructive MS-13, and that is a fact she doesn’t mention, which she should know since she lives in Northern Virginia where MS-13 has caused so much crime and graffiti.

This Bush campaign to discredit those who have the audacity not to comply with his wishes is going to backfire on him and those engaging in it.

januarius on May 30, 2007 at 10:27 PM

Note the 381 comments to her column, on Townhall, where even a really exciting column might receive 23 comments, and “red meat” might explode into a 75 comment blood-letting.

Jaibones on May 30, 2007 at 10:36 PM

Exit question: How many of us has he already lost?

After him calling me bigoted, racist and un-patriotic for refusing to back his amnesty for illegal aliens while screwing over legal immigrants any which way he can?

George who?

Dead to me.

Misha I on May 30, 2007 at 10:36 PM

Oh, and Linda Chavez?

Isn’t there a village somewhere that needs its idiot back?

Misha I on May 30, 2007 at 10:37 PM

Exit question: How many of us has he already lost?

At least me. I’d have trouble supporting Bush even on passing a law stating that ‘good is better than evil’, so much have I lost faith in the man. He got a couple of great SCOTUS guys in (one under severe protest by us of course), but other than that, he blows.

I’m considering smoking weed and wearing tie-dye.

Kevin M on May 30, 2007 at 10:39 PM

Bush has lost me, but I will always support the war on terror and I will forever be a conservative. Why in the world would I leave the conservatives to go to a party (the Democrats) who stand for everything I revile? Never, never, never.

Glynn on May 30, 2007 at 10:39 PM

This stuff is priceless, you guys are so immature you prove his point.

tomas on May 30, 2007 at 10:40 PM

This stuff is priceless, you guys are so immature you prove his point.

tomas on May 30, 2007 at 10:40 PM

The immigration bill is a good law. Face it, the law dreamed by conservatives will never happen. This is as good as it will get and if people want to turn the Republican party, their choice of candidates and the next elections about the immigration issue then you can forget about Republicans being in government – for a long time.

The immigration law balances the so-called “amnesty” with tough new restrictions and requirements on stopping future illegal immigration, as well as a reform of the points system for awarding citizenship. It’s what conservatives have been asking for all along, although with the possibility of, yes, “amnesty”. Which reminds me, what’s wrong with that? Isn’t paying a bail fee “amnesty”? Aren’t parole hearings, governatorial pardons and early releases “amnesty”? The illegal immigrants who are granted this option are required to comply with a series of requisites before they are legalized. It’s reasonable and it will work, opposition withstanding.

I would like to know what this dread of the word “amnesty” really means, when in fact the concept of paying back for violations of the law is thoroughly institutionalized in the American as well as in many other legal systems.

Baphomet on May 30, 2007 at 10:49 PM

Bush senior hands the presidency to the dems in 92 with his no new taxes flip-flop.
Bush jr is handing the dems the presidency to the dems in 08 with his insults to his base.

Why do I feel like these guys have an agenda that transcends party affiliation?

csdeven on May 30, 2007 at 10:54 PM

Get bent Chavez, I don’t care who these people are, they broke the law, and they don’t deserve to be rewarded for it. Give it to some poor starving person in Darfur who deserves it, or some poor Middle Eastern woman who’s tired of being beaten, not some prick who decided to break the law then have the nerve to demand to be rewarded for it. I’m all for helping people in unfortunate situations, people who deserve it, not the illegals. They are near the bottom of the list of people I want here.

Someone needs to make one of those Motivational Posters for Chavez, a picture of her with the caption:

—————-
Illegal Immigrants:

Because American citizens are really stubborn about following that pesky Thirteenth Amendment.
———————-

Anyone else got one?

Bad Candy on May 30, 2007 at 10:55 PM

I honestly think he is turning the last year or two of his presidency into a Jimmy Carter presidency. I am beginning to think he may turn out as one of the worst in history with crap like this and his one decision that will destroy the Republican party.

zerodamage on May 30, 2007 at 10:56 PM

Baphomet….no, just no.

Bad Candy on May 30, 2007 at 10:57 PM

Heh, Baphomet is even mouthing the talking points…These aren’t the droids you’re looking for.

Bad Candy on May 30, 2007 at 11:01 PM

Back in 11/06 i posted a ‘BRAWL FOR IT ALL’ comment. This is what I was warning about. Sitting out electiong or leaving the party in a hissy fit is Bull Crap. Stand up and fight damn it! You have to understand! Ther is no comming back from this one. The NWO is on the march and this country as we know it is being disolved. We are now the minority! We need to stand back to back and fight like hell NOW! This is the reality of out situation. we are going to be the ones on the endangered species list! WAKE THE HELL UP!

sonnyspats1 on May 30, 2007 at 11:02 PM

Why do I feel like these guys have an agenda that transcends party affiliation?

csdeven on May 30, 2007 at 10:54 PM

Your damned right they do!

sonnyspats1 on May 30, 2007 at 11:04 PM

Baphomet on May 30, 2007 at 10:49 PM

No it’s not allright! The legal immigration process is set up so as to assimilate people into the culture. Thats what makes this America it is the basis of everything American.The illegal mexican exodus into this country is bypassing the assimalation process. We don’t need a large group of foriegn people who refuse to learn the language and want to colonize us instead. The standards these people have in their country proof of their not being a great asset to the US as is touted! Take your bill and shove it!

sonnyspats1 on May 30, 2007 at 11:16 PM

Is she wearing a wig in that picture?

WisCon on May 30, 2007 at 11:20 PM

The immigration law balances the so-called “amnesty” with tough new restrictions and requirements on stopping future illegal immigration, as well as a reform of the points system for awarding citizenship. It’s what conservatives have been asking for all along, although with the possibility of, yes, “amnesty”. Which reminds me, what’s wrong with that? Isn’t paying a bail fee “amnesty”? Aren’t parole hearings, governatorial pardons and early releases “amnesty”? The illegal immigrants who are granted this option are required to comply with a series of requisites before they are legalized. It’s reasonable and it will work, opposition withstanding.

I would like to know what this dread of the word “amnesty” really means, when in fact the concept of paying back for violations of the law is thoroughly institutionalized in the American as well as in many other legal systems.

Baphomet

If it wasn’t the obvious case that this is the same as the last time we tried to fix it and we didn’t enforce it that time, why is it assumed we’ll do it this time?
I don’t want every immigrant deported, i don’t think latinos are lazy and worthless to america. My grandfather was an immigrant, g-d rest his soul. Immigrants are the soul of this country. However that doesn’t mean we should allow everyone to come over. I’ms ure you and Tomas point to the 1870s-1920s when so many immigrants came to this country; never did more then 1million come in any given year. We took in roughly in that 50yr stretch as many people as we are being asked to swallow now. I’d be far more supportive of the presidents plan if it added a few provisions;

1. build the fence, literal and electronic, across the entire southern border. This to prevent not just terrorists but MS13, drug dealers and coyotes from coming in.
2. Add alot more people to the border patrol and permit them to be effective
3. Throw out every single illegal that’s committed a felony (not including the getting into the country, i’m talking about murder, arson, burglary, rape, etc.) and DNA tag them to ensure they’re known if they try it again.
4. Have a way for people to apply for jobs from outside of the country, track them and ensure they do their jobs a’la harvesting and then leave. If they want to stay they wait in line
5. Streamline legal immigration
6. Ensure you pay into social security/welfare/educational taxes for more then one month before you receive every single handout avaliable

#6 i’m willing to work on but 1-5, you put those in with some teeth, then this is over and the conservatives by and large agree with this

Defector01 on May 30, 2007 at 11:20 PM

The immigration law balances the so-called “amnesty” with tough new restrictions and requirements on stopping future illegal immigration, as well as a reform of the points system for awarding citizenship.

Where are the funds going to come from to finance the manpower and technology to manage this, Baphomet? Not to mention the background checks, fine payment, cross checking paperwork filed out of country (touchback) with old in-country data, testing for english, and on and on.

Do you really believe the US government is capable of managing this process?

It’s gonna cost a fortune and will be a total cluster-fu%$. In the end, we’ll have accomplished nothing.

Just make it so penal to hire an illegal alien that no business would ever hire one. Then they’ll go home, wherever they came from.

BacaDog on May 30, 2007 at 11:22 PM

He’s definitely lost me. I saw him on the news just a little while ago, insulting me and people like me with one shallow rhetorical jab after the other. He should retire to Mexico after his term–and take Linda Chavez with him.

dostrick on May 30, 2007 at 11:23 PM

Jaibones,

Holy Sh%t she sure opened a industrial sized can of whipa$$ on herself there didn’t she. I read most of those comments and they were 95% offended individuals very upset with Chavez. My bet is she doesn’t have the integrity decency or courage to read more than 2 or 3 of those comments.

doriangrey on May 30, 2007 at 11:24 PM

Forgot to mention…..McCain says we will secure our borders with 20,000 additional Border Patrol agents. Let’s see, 20,000 agents x $70,000 per year in salary and benefits = $1.4 billion per year additional cost. $1.4 billion!

OK John. Let’s raise taxes and spend that rather than fine every business $50,000 per head, per day they employed an illegal. Nobody would hire one and we’d collect fines rather than spend a couple of billion more of our money.

Let’s see, tax and spend or no tax and collect revenue. Has every GOP candidate turned into a Democrat?

BacaDog on May 30, 2007 at 11:29 PM

Hey George…..
It isn’t about racism. It isn’t about camps. It isn’t about diversity….it IS about getting to the Ballpark in Arlington (AmeriquestField or whatever you sold it for now) and going to my seat and finding out someone else, who didn’t pay for a ticket, is sitting in it and security could care less. That is what is is about George. You do remember the Ballpark in Arlington don’t your George? The place you charged admission for people to get into? Huh?

Limerick on May 30, 2007 at 11:45 PM

Limerick on May 30, 2007 at 11:45 PM

Heh. Good analogy, Limerick. The sad thing is if I beat their a$$ to get em’ out of my seat the arrest warrent would have my name on it.

BacaDog on May 30, 2007 at 11:47 PM

To anyone who believes that if I just keep voting (R), they will straighten out (the politicians), you are fooling yourself. It’s time to prune the tree. All the American people needed was two years of Clinton and a (D) Congress before things changed. To keep voting these clowns into office simply because we want to keep the (D)’s out is insane. The first stop would have to be the great senator of the state of Kentucky.

jeffNWV on May 30, 2007 at 11:49 PM

sonnyspats1

What are you talking about? Were the previous waves of immigrants subjected to the same system? Let’s stop the illusion that the previous generations of immigrants were somehow part of an immigration system and these are not. Back then, there simply wasn’t one. Everyone was legal and everyone was illegal. Having said that, this is not at all an excuse for the Mexicans and others to break the law. There are no excuses for breaking the law. My point was that there are already legal cases, in other parts of the system, where an individual can pay back for his violations of the law and gain the infamous “amnesty”, only it’s not called that. Why not with immigrants?

Also, I’m rather disgusted by the “arguments” many conservatives make. Many start with the “law enforcement” platform, which is great and with which I partially agree. But then come these pseudo-xenophobic arguments about economic depression, falling wages, erosion of the middle class, Mexicans not assimilating, higher crime rates. All untrue. Look up the research. Read what columnists like Robert Samuelson or economists like N. Gregory Mankiw, no open borders advocates by the way, have to say. Linda Chávez does have a point. There is something beyond “law enforcement” behind this hostility and even obsession with the illegal immigration issue we’re seeing right now. It’s not new. That’s why I’m so disappointed in conservatives and consider myself a Republican first and a conservative second. These last two years or so have seen a ridiculous obsession with this issue in the conservative blogoshpere and media which will only hurt conservatives. I think it’s downright stupid to stop supporting such a great President only because he did not have the immigration bill EXACTLY as you wanted it. Do you think you’ll get a President who got it right on so many issues, especially foreign policy, any time soon?

By the way: “The standards these people have in their country proof of their not being a great asset to the US as is touted!”

Would you blame Jews emigrating from Russia or Irish emigrating from Ireland or Italians emigrating from Italy for the conditions of their country of origin (at the time of their departure)? This is not an argument, and it reinforces the point I just made.

Defector01

Those are some great points. I still believe this bill addresses those issues, particularly the first and second ones, as well as the fifth one, as best as possible. By the way, the US has an awful legal immigration system. The top type of visa, for the most qualified kind of worker, is capped at around 60.000 per year if I remember correctly. That needs to be reformed too.

BacaDog

What? You can’t call for imposing limits on illegal immigration and being against paying for its costs. I don’t think your proposal would work. Both employers and employees would just avoid the law. Enforcing what you propose would impose Big Brother controls on every business in America, which would be far more costly than shutting down the flood from México.

Baphomet on May 30, 2007 at 11:52 PM

This stuff is priceless, you guys are so immature you prove his point.

tomas on May 30, 2007 at 10:40 PM

tomas felt his smackdown was so important, he had to say it twice!

Kevin M on May 30, 2007 at 11:54 PM

In my family history we have immigrants from Holland, Germany, Prussia, France, England, Scotland, Ireland, Poland, Costa Rica, Nicaragua, and Korea. Not a single one of them went around the system. Granted some came when the system was simply getting your name recorded after you got off the ship, but many others (Ireland, Poland, Costa Rica, Nicaragua, and Korea) came with visas and work permits and green cards and met their citizenship requirements as demanded by the law. Then they put away their foreign flags and pledged allegence to the United States of America. If my ‘people’ can follow the rules then why the hell can’t the current group of ‘immigrants’?
It isn’t some kind of double standard. It is a single standard that Americans like me and members of my family want enforced.

Limerick on May 31, 2007 at 12:13 AM

That’s why I’m so disappointed in conservatives and consider myself a Republican first and a conservative second.

Baphomet, its people like you that will see the Republican Party spends another 60 years in exile, if you’re lucky. Face it, you had no power till the conservative movement wrested control from the country club set, and you’ll go back to no power again without us.

Bad Candy on May 31, 2007 at 12:13 AM

Baphomet on May 30, 2007 at 11:52 PM

Baphomet, I’m not against paying the costs for useful, workable programs or manpower. I’m against throwing money at a new bureauocracy that will accomplish nothing.

As an officer of a fortune 500 company, I can guaran-damn-tee you I would never take the chance of incurring a material fine and harming the reputation of my company by hiring illegal workers. The problems now are: there’s no quick way to verify legal status, and there’s no penalty with teeth to prevent hiring illegal aliens. The result is they’re hired, money goes home, and more come for the opportunity with little risk and a huge reward.

Why would what I propose be big brother? Hell, it’s the law now! I’m not proposing sending brigades of ICE agents into every nursery and produce company in America. I’m just saying that if the penalty were so severe, no responsible company would take the risk. I know I damn sure wouldn’t.

Your comment:

Let’s stop the illusion that the previous generations of immigrants were somehow part of an immigration system and these are not. Back then, there simply wasn’t one. Everyone was legal and everyone was illegal.

is a red herring of sorts. Sure, there wasn’t a real immigration system when my great-grandpa landed here. How does that have any relevence to today? There weren’t any marijuana laws then either, but you get caught with it now and you’ll find your a$$ in big trouble.

I think you and I are in “violent agreement” on the core issue here. I’m deeply offended and dissapointed by Bush and his team by their position on this issue. Where do we turn for true conservative, REpublican leadership?

BacaDog on May 31, 2007 at 12:14 AM

I know quite a few Hispanics who don’t like this bill; who came here legally; who resent those are here illegally and are about to be given amnesty; and who seriously resent being called a racist because they don’t believe in open borders, amnesty and only obeying laws which a person agrees with.

Chavez is out of line and so is Bush by attacking those who put him into office. It’s a disgrace.

katieanne on May 31, 2007 at 12:20 AM

Chavez and the Amnesty crowds behavior confirms in me further the need in the conservative movement for a Kos-type enforcer wing to put these morons in line.

This is America, and in America, the people are supposed to be the Godfather, and the politicians are supposed to kiss OUR ring, not the other way around.

Bad Candy on May 31, 2007 at 12:22 AM

Getting Mau-Maued by a conservative? Oh, Lordy, my head hurts.

smellthecoffee on May 31, 2007 at 12:22 AM

Baphomet, you consider yourself a Republican first and a conservative second…since when was granting amnesty part of the Republican platform? Do you just change your ideas along with what the GOP tells you to?

WisCon on May 31, 2007 at 12:33 AM

Can someone explain why the administration says that they can’t track wages to make illegals pay back taxes, yet they can track their wages in order to give them Social Security benefits???

ProudPatriot on May 31, 2007 at 12:34 AM

Wait a second here. Chavez SPECIFICALLY said “some,” and even said “fewer than 10 percent of the general population, at most.”
Are y’all saying that only ten percent of the general population is against “open borders?”

Just a little sample of what she’s talking about, from the comments AT HER POST, collected by someone called “Real American” in the comments there:

“The fact is, 95% of latinos are pigs.”

“They can be referred to as: Human Locusts”

“your correct i believe only 92 % are pigs.”

“one question, do you do windows?”

“why is the country of Mexico such a toilet?”

“Doesn’t matter if they are rich or poor. They spit continually, throw their paper and trash anywhere and everywhere, don’t care about other peoples rights. Most latinos are thieves and are corrupt”

“I take Ms Chavez is of latino culture, does anyone one know if she is in america legally? The way she words her column would make one think not.”

“get over the fact many of us will stop such as you and the racists like Linda Chavez from making America like the hell hole the Mexicans wallow in”

“Quickly, the fact is that we’re being invaded by an inferior culture. Every person of low quality we import plants a family-tree that bears low-quality fruit. The rotten fruit of that tree will rot our own fruit.”

“The Mexicans getting dumped on us are the worst of a corrupt, dysfunctional nation; they’re thieves and criminals the second that they cross our borders.”

“Every Mexican who comes here makes America worse, and this article is proof of it.”

“How dare you call us racists when ILLEGAL ALIENS move 20 or 30 into a single family home next door to us and lower our property values.”

“If Linda thinks Mexicans are so great, then why doesn’t she move to Mexico? ”

“DO have too many babies (paid for OTHER PEOPLES MONEY). DO bring in disease ( T.B. anyone????). ARE PRONE TO CRIMINAL BEHAVIOR,(look at the outstanding warrants in L.A. and Ca. prison population, MS13 gangs..). DO dumb down our schools, CHECK THE STATS, (2nd and 3rd generation aren’t even advancing).”

“most Mexicans, especially men, are lazy good for nothing drunks who only care about sacking as many mujeres that they can.”

And that was from this morning–I haven’t checked back to see what other turds were dropped in the comments there since then.

Nah, Linda Chavez is craaazy for thinking anyone might be a racist!

Bush lose me? NO. But the right might lose me (to complete apathy, not to the GD left) if it’s become “offensive” to point out OBVIOUS bigotry.

I am disgusted that there is such a tiny number of pro-enforcement conservatives on the internets that are willing to condemn that BS, and even more disgusted that those of us who do are accused of being La Raza, “open borders,” PC liberals, whatever. That’s BS, and I’m f’ing sick of it. Racism is NOT a conservative value, although some people are doing a great job of reinforcing that slur.

I don’t know about y’all, but I certainly didn’t take what Bush or Chavez or Chertoff said as an attack on ME, even though I don’t support the immigration bill. But then, I don’t take offense to things that don’t describe me.

Why the hell this is so hard to understand for so many people I do not know. “SOME” does not mean “ALL.”

GAWD.

bamapachyderm on May 31, 2007 at 12:35 AM

She went a little further than that in specifying who’s among that 10%, though, didn’t she? Quote:

Unfortunately, among this group is a fair number of Republican members of Congress, almost all influential conservative talk radio hosts, some cable news anchors — most prominently, Lou Dobbs — and a handful of public policy “experts” at organizations such as the Center for Immigration Studies, the Federation for American Immigration Reform, NumbersUSA, in addition to fringe groups like the Minuteman Project.

Why doesn’t she give us names? Let her tell us exactly who the filthy big media racists she has in mind are. She named Dobbs; is Rush Limbaugh included too? Laura Ingraham? Dennis Prager? Sean Hannity? They’re all influential conservative talk radio hosts. How about Michelle?

What she’s actually suggesting here, whatever percentage she puts on it, is that conservative media is by and large racist when it comes to Mexicans. Presumably that includes blogs too. It’s utter garbage and she deserves the abuse she’s taking for having suggested it.

Allahpundit on May 31, 2007 at 12:44 AM

I think there will be a purge at the top of the Republican party. Newt was right. The next President will be a Republican if he runs away from Bush on certain issues and portrays himself as more competant.

Another thought, a lot of conservatives were chastised for staying home in 2006 because they were disgusted with the Republicans. We were warned that this immigration bill might be a result but the bigger concern was the Iraq war. Now Bush is pushing a bill and demonizing his last supporters for this immigration bill. Shouldn’t he get the saem criticism for not abandoning immigration “reform” because it will hurt his war effort. How much political capital does he really have to spare when stalwarts like me are thinking impeachment.

Bill C on May 31, 2007 at 12:51 AM

Because Beth, we’ve seen it before, whenever the elite pull out the long knives on “their own side” (I don’t think they’re on our side anymore), they revert to liberal tactics against their own, specifically pulling out the various-ists.

Yeah, there are a number of racists or at least racist rhetoric, no doubt, we’ve seen a number of them banhammered here. And the fact that there are so many is alarming, and I’m stunned by the level of venom you just linked, I didn’t realize it was that bad. I haven’t seen anything that bad ANYWHERE to be honest, so maybe I can see why Chavez has such a warped view of things.

When I see Chavez make it clear she’s not talking about people who have a legitimate opposing viewpoint and not using a few radicals to smear the rest of us, I’ll calm down, till then, I’ve nothing but scorn for her, because we’ve been burned by our elites too many times to trust them even on minute issues anymore.

Bad Candy on May 31, 2007 at 12:54 AM

Why doesn’t she name names? I don’t know, beyond Lou Dobbs, and I wouldn’t know either (I don’t listen to talk radio or watch Lou Dobbs, for that matter).

Those groups, though? NumbersUSA (especially), the Minuteman Project, CIS? I get spammed with stuff from them, and I don’t even like some of the stuff I see–and I’m not even a bit Hispanic. Of course, now I just delete and report the spam (thanks, Zone Alarm), so for all I know they’ve cleaned up their acts.

“Presumably that includes blogs too.”
I would hope so, based on what I see in some of the fever swamps–including the comments at Townhall. Not here, not Ace’s, but definitely in some of the other blogs. I KNOW you’ve seen examples of the nastiness of which she speaks, if you’ve been to almost any other blog with active comments.

If anyone wants to get real immigration reform through (which since November ’06 is pretty much a lost cause anyway, but I still have hope), the ADULTS among us are going to have to marginalize the bigots. I don’t care if they’re for the same basic end result as I am; I don’t want them speaking for me–and they have become the face of the pro-enforcement side, like it or not. That is what the media focuses upon, and they’ll continue to do so–why? Because we’re conservatives.

I say to the people screaming “wetback” and all that, get the hell out of my party. This tent’s big, but not big enough for me and them.

bamapachyderm on May 31, 2007 at 12:56 AM

Wait a second here. Chavez SPECIFICALLY said “some,” and even said “fewer than 10 percent of the general population, at most.”
Are y’all saying that only ten percent of the general population is against “open borders?”

Sorry, but that’s just a little bit of misdirection on her part, a trap door to cover here race-card playing ass, and you fell into it.

In addition to the stuff Allah pointed out a post or two above, Linda also wrote the following:

Stripped bare, this is what the current debate on immigration reform is all about. Fear of “the other” — of those who look or sound different, who come from poor countries with unfamiliar customs — has been at the heart of every immigration debate this country has ever had, from the infamous Alien and Sedition Acts of 1798 to the floor of the U.S. Senate this week.

What is said today of the Mexicans, Guatemalans, Salvadorans and others was once said of Germans, Swedes, the Irish, Italians, Poles, Jews and others. The only difference is that in the past, the xenophobes could speak freely, unconstrained by a veneer of political correctness. Today, they speak more cautiously, so they talk about the rule of law, national security, amnesty, whatever else they think might make their arguments less racially charged.

So in her own words, opposition to this bill is fueled by racism. Stripped bare, that’s what the debate’s about – her own words.

No argument for rule of law, national security, against amnesty, can be uttered in good faith – it’s just a cover for racist attitudes.

As AP said, she deserves every bit of abuse she’s taking for it.

thirteen28 on May 31, 2007 at 12:57 AM

Baphomet on May 30, 2007 at 11:52 PM

No what are YOU talking about! Did you ever hear of a place called ellis island. The immigrants your are referring to had to wait for entry and pass health examinations and enter quarentine if they were carrying transmittable diseases. The immigrants of that era were tested in american history and had to show proficiency in the english language. Most of all they did not arrive in a tidal wave of arrogant “We are America or We built America” Bull Shit with DEMANDS TO BECOME CITIZENS. I say go back to your tin and cardboard homes and get some humility. Screw you ! I built America first!

sonnyspats1 on May 31, 2007 at 12:58 AM

Why doesn’t she name names? I don’t know, beyond Lou Dobbs, and I wouldn’t know either (I don’t listen to talk radio or watch Lou Dobbs, for that matter).

Oh, and to add … while I’m not a huge Lou Dobbs fan, it’s pretty hard to accuse him of anti-Hispanic racism when his own wife is Mexican … something else Linda failed to check into before she whipped out the race card with Cochrane-esque zeal.

thirteen28 on May 31, 2007 at 12:59 AM

Bad Candy, I’ve seen it regularly, and even in some of the comments at some of the blogs of commenters in this thread. Some people allow–if not encourage–that sort of rhetoric.
Here’s just a quick search on ONE word. Trust me, it gets worse.
Why it’s OK to say some of the stuff I see, I don’t know. These people presumably wouldn’t say “nigger” or “kike” or “gook,” but “wetback” and the filth above is OK?

I’m happy for you that you haven’t seen it, but it’s everywhere, and it’s exactly why Chavez and others are talking about it.

bamapachyderm on May 31, 2007 at 1:00 AM

Beth, I guess what I’m saying that I’m not giving Chavez the benefit of the doubt because people like her and the GOP elite haven’t earned it. Until the elite decide they are going to pretend they have something other than dry heave inducing disgust and contempt for their own base every once in awhile, I’m gonna view them every bit as untrustworthy as the Left.

Bad Candy on May 31, 2007 at 1:01 AM

Well, I mostly comment here and Ace’s (different handle), so I’m probably sheltered a bit, blogwise. And yeah, the “Wetback” stuff I’ve seen a bit of, and I want nothing to do with them either, but they get smacked down when their caught here and at Ace’s.

And I agree that the people engaging in that rhetoric need to be slapped down, but again there is too much of an eagerness and arrogance in our own elite to trust that they aren’t using these asshats to smear us, too, and Chavez knows it.

Bad Candy on May 31, 2007 at 1:07 AM

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