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NYT survey: Most Iraqis, military leaders predict chaos if U.S. pulls out

posted at 8:19 pm on May 26, 2007 by Allahpundit
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They interviewed intel experts and politicians too, but the consensus seems to have been strongest among Iraqi pols and citizens and U.S. military commanders — the groups closest to the facts on the ground, oddly enough. In fact, even most of Bush’s critics agree that things will get worse; they simply tend not to believe it’ll be too bad or last very long.

Read all of this one, if only because the howling from Rick Ellensburg and company about the Times “shilling” for the administration by publishing it will be shrill and savory. The different camps tend to split three ways: those who would keep American troops in the field until the Iraqi army is ready and terrorist attacks are down; those who would force the Iraqi government to assume responsibility by pulling American troops back, but only to bases in Iraq so they’re not too far away; and those who would would force them to assume responsibility by quickly withdrawing from the country. The last camp seems to consist mainly of Jack Murtha and the Sadrists, who have some pretty definite ideas about who it is who’ll be handling most of those new responsibilities.

There’s a lot of quotable material — note in particular what Anthony Cordesman has to say about which group in all this is best positioned and best motivated to decide when it’s time to go — but I’ll leave you with this, from one of the many anti-war vets whom the left has invested with absolute moral authority to serve its own ends. It’s safe to say the bloom is off the rose:

Anthony C. Zinni, a retired four-star general who formerly led Central Command, strongly opposed the decision to invade Iraq, fearing that it might lead to sectarian fighting and regional destabilization. But now that American forces have occupied the country, General Zinni fears that a troop withdrawal will compound the instability. The notion that the United States can pressure the Iraqis to take more responsibility for their own security, the general said, was impractical: with Iraqi security forces still not ready, militias would fill the gap.

General Zinni said it made sense to keep American forces at current levels for a year or so before gradually reducing troop levels and executing a strategy to try to keep Iraq’s instability from spreading. “When we are in Iraq we are in many ways containing the violence,” he said. “If we back off we give it more room to breathe, and it may metastasize in some way and become a regional problem. We don’t have to be there at the same force level, but it is a five- to seven-year process to get any reasonable stability in Iraq.”


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The American Left has been immune from reality since Stalin’s time, if not longer. Articles like this in the NYTreason, though welcome, are too little too late.

Besides, Pelosi isn’t in town to read it. She’s off in Europe, having once again forgotten the difference between being Speaker and being Sec of State.

Anton on May 26, 2007 at 8:37 PM

We don’t have to be there at the same force level, but it is a five- to seven-year process to get any reasonable stability in Iraq.”

Yes, and due to political calculations and an election in 18 months, the insecure left just doesn’t have time for that commitment.

Sorry folks, we have an election to win.

JammieWearingFool on May 26, 2007 at 8:56 PM

Well, duh.

Tru2my2 on May 26, 2007 at 9:00 PM

Tantor Survey: Most lefties don’t care if Iraq takes a bloodbath as long as America loses.

Tantor on May 26, 2007 at 9:02 PM

Most lefties don’t care if Iraq takes a bloodbath as long as America loses.

Tantor on May 26, 2007 at 9:02 PM

True that. But this time they won’t be able to sweep it under the rug, as it was with Cambodia. The Global Jihad marches on, and if America doesn’t fight against it, who will?

infidel4life on May 26, 2007 at 9:36 PM

>Most lefties don’t care if Iraq takes a bloodbath as long as America loses.

Liberals don’t care if the whole world goes to hell in a hand basket, as long as everybody is in the same basket.

Doghouse on May 26, 2007 at 9:36 PM

The question that comes to my mind is if the left would do anything different after they use the issue to get in power. They want to make Bush pull the troops and take the blame for the mass murder that will result but would they “redeploy” our troops from Iraq or even just Baghdad and get their own hands covered with the blood of the innocents they left to be slaughtered? I think the proper way to phrase it is that the left doesn’t care if Iraq takes a bloodbath and America looses as long as they gain in power and keep their own hands clean.

Buzzy on May 26, 2007 at 9:59 PM

As long as they get their universal health care for all Americans (plus the illegal aliens): Iraq can go to tell and be invaded by Iran, Saudi Arabia and Syria, have al Qaeda set up a new command center, attack Israel, hell the whole Middle East can just go down in flames – the liberals won’t care as long as they get the universal health care that Michael Moore has been promising them.

Oh, and if al Qaeda sets up shop in Iraq and plans new attacks on us, it won’t matter, because when they kill another 3,000 of us, with our super duper new health care system, we’ll be able to treat all those who were lucky enough not to die. Of course, they’ll all have to stand in long lines and wait for treatment, some may die waiting in line, but that’s OK because it’s going to be free. Free health care is worth dying for. Oh, but freedom and democracy in Iraq isn’t. You know, because they’re not Americans. Iraqis should really just come to the US as illegal aliens if they want freedom and democracy. Don’t make your own country better, just come to ours! There’s room enough for everyone! Well, once all the evil Republicans are killed off, anyways.

In the great American spirit of I Want Mine, the liberals will bring all the troops home no matter what the truth in Iraq is.

Seixon on May 26, 2007 at 10:02 PM

We should do Plan A and then Plan B.

First, keep our Troops there, training the new Iraqi Army until it’s ready, THEN pull our Troops back into their bases in Iraq. Let the Iraqis fight the terrorists while our guys rest up and prepare for Iran and Syria.

Seixon, good write up on the Lefties. You’ve got those people nailed.

Tony737 on May 27, 2007 at 12:51 AM

NYT survey: Most Iraqis, military leaders predict chaos if U.S. pulls out

Most Dhemocrates, the Vichy Americans, predict political advantage. They think, who cares if a few million people die and the rest are enslaved by tyrants; I get to be on “Good Morning America.”

Mojave Mark on May 27, 2007 at 12:56 AM

I’m not nearly articulate enough to capture the high points from an article in Foreign Affairs I read so the link is
http://www.foreignaffairs.org/20070301faessay86201-p0/james-d-fearon/iraq-s-civil-war.html

It is a long article but examines civil wars around the world since the end of WW2. Good in depth analysis of many of the issues involved with Iraq and worth the read when considering what we are facing when determining how the country deals with the Iraq issue.

My opinion is we will go with the second option of pulling back to strategic areas in Iraq. Accomplishes a couple of things (1) deters Iran (2) can still engage AQ (3) puts serious pressure on the Iraqis to take ownership of their fate

Bradky on May 27, 2007 at 1:30 AM

Yes, it would be chaos when we pull out, no matter when or how we pull out. It doesn’t matter what we do in Iraq to try to stabilize it. As long as Islam exists, a true secular government in any form is impossible. Islam is not a “religion” in the western sense of the word, it is a socio-political system, in Islam there is no difference between religion and politics or governance. Allahpundit, I’m not advocating anything here. Just making note that the western style of governance is not possible and further that one of Islam’s edicts is to spread the rule of Islam to completely cover the globe. I don’t have the link, but I believe the quote was “we will fight until Islam rules the world and Islam the only accepted religion on earth”. I do not want war, but want or not, war is upon us, brought by an again expanding Islamic empire. We will have to fight it militarily and culturally whether we want to or not. If we do fight, we may win or lose. If we do not fight, we can only lose, and either way, if we lose, we lose everything from our freedoms (what little we have left) to our history as it will undoubtedly be rewritten to suit Islam.

We NEED to take a step back and seriously reevaluate how we will fight this one. All we’re doing now is putting ourselves in the way of a never ending flow of Islamists, without dealing with the root cause. But as yet I haven’t seen anyone in office on either side of the aisle that can even bring themselves to say the name of, let alone properly identify the enemy we face, or form a realistic strategy to defeat it. Good intentions will get us nowhere without it.

P. James Moriarty on May 27, 2007 at 2:07 AM

I don’t know what to expect from out country. The lead headline for Memorial day is Grim Milestone nearly reached.

This the muther fucker is how they treat my our boys…I spit on them.

tomas on May 27, 2007 at 9:33 AM

P. James Moriarty on May 27, 2007 at 2:07 AM

Good points. They are at war with us but we refuse to take up arms to defend ourselves. You’re right, the politicos won’t even say who “they” are.

Mojave Mark on May 27, 2007 at 12:40 PM

NYT survey: Most Iraqis, military leaders predict chaos if U.S. pulls out

Duhaaa! Its Chaos now. No kidding Sherlock. So what?

How about “Prospects for Iraq’s Stability: A Challenging Road Ahead,” but the so-called National Intelligence Estimate, or NIE, partially released this week. Al-Qaeda influence back fill and increase in Iran influence in Iraq and region, all predicted. It predicted the sectarian Civil war and the extremely unlikely ability to build a working democratic government. Worst of all it was predicted it would be a boost to Islamic terrorist recruitment. ALL “conveniently ignored”.

Now the EXPERTS are going to predict chaos? Please too late.

>Most lefties don’t care if Iraq takes a bloodbath as long as America loses.

Liberals don’t care if the whole world goes to hell in a hand basket, as long as everybody is in the same basket.

Doghouse

Idiotic comments like that help the terrorist. I think the 70% of the Americans that say pull out love america as much as you super Dogfart. I guess if you have nothing intelligent to say……..say something stupid, like THOSE DAMN LIBERALS!

We, America (won’t even blame Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld/Rove) have made a real mess. Good intentions yes and now but it just turn out to be a cluster. Stuff happens.

Going into Iraq has left us (the USA people all liberal, conservative, men, woman, children, black, white…..) with out any good options, but stay the course is not going to happen. Dealing with reality verses wishful dreaming I know is hard for someone of you mental capacity to deal with Dogfart, but that is something adults need to do. It’s not about LOSING, it is what is the BEST way to go forward.

The Iraq people and the super duper government they have don’t want to help and even want up out. Even Bush said we will leave if they don’t want us there this week! Really, great because most want us out. They want to get on with killing each other. We are just getting in the way.

Clearly the two obvious options on the table are stay forever or leave, both have pro/con arguments. However pictures of Nuke (nukclur if Bush) mushroom clouds and stupid comments from you are intellectually dishonest and retarded, Dogfart. Now I’m going to write your mommy and tell her not to let you play on the computer any more.

gmcjetpilot on May 27, 2007 at 8:38 PM

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