Back-taxes requirement stripped from amnesty bill — at Bush’s urging

posted at 5:26 pm on May 19, 2007 by Allahpundit

Hey, look on the “bright side” — it would have been stripped anyway once illegals started complaining about it.

A provision requiring payment of back taxes had been in the initial version of a bill proposed by Senator Edward M. Kennedy, the Massachusetts Democrat. But the administration called for the provision to be removed due to concern that it would be too difficult to figure out which illegal immigrants owed back taxes…

Laura Capps, a spokeswoman for Kennedy, said a provision for requiring back taxes was in Kennedy’s original bill and that [DHS Secretary Michael] Chertoff called for it to be removed. “Chertoff thought it would be too challenging to accurately determine the amount of an applicant’s back taxes,” she said…

Pete Sepp, spokesman for the National Taxpayers Union, which says it has 362,000 members, was stunned that the provision was removed. While saying it would be difficult to come up with a precise estimate of the amount of back taxes owed by undocumented residents, he said it would be in the tens of billions of dollars, with a similar amount in fines for failure to pay the taxes.

Too challenging, you see. In contrast to, say, the bureaucracy that’s going to be needed to enforce the moronic, purely symbolic touchback requirement. That’s not too challenging.

The real reason they stripped it is because they know illegals wouldn’t comply with it, just like many of them aren’t going to comply by paying the $5,000 penalty. Which is why that’ll end up being stripped too.


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At the close of the Constitutional Convention in Philadelphia on September 18, 1787, a Mrs. Powel anxiously awaited the results, and as Benjamin Franklin emerged from the long task now finished, asked him directly: “Well Doctor, what have we got, a republic or a monarchy?” “A republic if you can keep it” responded Franklin.

I guess we couldn’t keep it.

Remind me again, how many Latin American nations have voted in Presidents that support Austrian Economics?

Tim Burton on May 20, 2007 at 4:46 AM

1. You don’t get blood from a turnip.
a. it isn’t like these people got filthy rich off not paying taxes and have thousands of dollars lying around to pay.

b. Because most of them work for cash and there is no documentation of earnings, figuring how much is owed would be practically impossible.

2. You can’t ignore he problem for 40 years and then suddenly tell people you are going to ruin their lives. Yeah, technically owning a vibrator is illegal in some places in this country but if the police went on a house to house search looking for them and tossing people into jail for it, hell would be raised. What do you do with illegals who were brought here by parents and have been raised here? What do you do with illegals that now have natural born US citizen children? Do you kick a person out of the country who has never known any other place besides the US? Do you deport a half-dozen citizens just to get rid of one who isn’t?

3. The illegals don’t like this proposal because it:
a. doesn’t give blanket residence just because they have been here long enough.
b. requires stricter employment checking and tossing out of illegals who do not register for work permits (end of catch/release
c. will result in their being deported if they become unemployed or arrested.

4, The hard-assed wing of the Republican party doesn’t like it because it doesn’t extract a pound of flesh or kick them out alltogether.

3 and 4 together tells me it is probably a good idea. If the illegals don’t like it and Tancredo doesn’t like it, it has two characteristics of a solution I am probably going to be in favor of.

5. There are somewhere between 12 and 20 million illegals here. There are only 6.8 million unemployed citizens and legal residents. We don’t have enough unemployed people to take the place of the illegals. Hell, where I live we apparently still don’t have enough illegals if you look at the “HELP WANTED” signs on darn near every business in the area (except the San Francisco Chronicle). If we threw out all the illegals we would face a severe shortage of workers causing some businesses to go tits up.

6. Only half of illegal aliens come across the Mexican border. The other half cross at legitimate crossing points with legitimate papers but stay after their visas expire. You can make the Mexican border into a Berlin Wall with orders to shoot to kill and you only slow the growth of illegals by 50%. It doesn’t fix the problem, nor does it prevent it from getting worse.

7. Drug cartels have more money to spend on tearing up a fence than we have to build it. Building a fence is a never ending project because they will spend millions of dollars tearing it down as fast as we can build it.

The real issue is that this problem will never be solved. The reason is that there are too many very influential people making too much money off the way things are now. Look at the political clout of real estate developers, construction and agricultural tycoons in the border region. No matter what is proposed will be rejected because drug cartels alone would be able to pump millions into political campaigns of people who oppose whatever is proposed.

So far from what I have read, this proposal is the best thing I have seen yet as far as being a START towards fixing the problem. The trouble is that all sides want perfection the first time around.

My country is “ate up with the dumbass” to quote an old platoon sergeant of mine.

crosspatch on May 20, 2007 at 5:38 AM

Allah

Please don’t ban me brother but this is the first time I\ve heard some conservatives complain about a tax break…..

Okay now you can ban me…..

EricPWJohnson on May 20, 2007 at 7:39 AM

Well

This is the first time I’ve heard some conservatives complain about tax breaks……

Personally

Lets rewrite this thing to start this way

A complete wall will be built and monitored first in 24 months, thats all along the border

Then English shall be the established language, any foreign language channels must switch to a mixed format then to an english format within the 24 months, Schools will end ESL, Toefl, colleges will end such programs beginning immediately, English can be taught after school for free with Federal Aide, materials for learning english will be expedited to all parties – if we could feed Europe after WWII we can teach 20 million people english.

a large national prison will be built to house all state and local prisoners that are aliens

Then in 2009

A seven year program for Citizenship with a special 5% tax levied on all income (in addition to all current taxes) until citizenship is granted, this will be in effect forever until all legal and illegal citizens complete their requirements

No more greencards ever, period.

National ID Card with uniform rules for driving (granted as an additional staus on an ID Card), no more state control of Drivers Licenses, roads, safety are a Federal Matter with can be seconded to the state police in a uniform system.

EricPWJohnson on May 20, 2007 at 7:55 AM

Apathy.

csdeven on May 20, 2007 at 8:11 AM

Apathy.

csdeven on May 20, 2007 at 8:11 AM

Apathy?

explain

I mean what do you want CSdeven?

EricPWJohnson on May 20, 2007 at 8:25 AM

No legality and deportation is much easier than all of our president’s and congress’s “path to citizenship” babble.

lynnv on May 20, 2007 at 8:29 AM

Lynnv

Explain how we could do that? deport 5, 6, 20. million people to an already screwed up and struggling country and keep our national pride and morality?

I mean, there are thousands, no millions of God Fearing Christians, that are going to stop playing with their kids, coaching sports and we are going to hear from them

I don’t think deportation is on the table (Tancredos maybe) but no ones going to deport little children to certain disease, poverty and death.

Its just not an American thing

EricPWJohnson on May 20, 2007 at 8:39 AM

EricPWJohnson on May 20, 2007 at 8:25 AM

Not from you. I’ve been reading all this trying to figure out WHY america is at this point. The only word I can come up with is apathy. Americans are apathetic.

Sorry for the confusion.

Apathy.

csdeven on May 20, 2007 at 9:14 AM

I don’t think deportation is on the table (Tancredos maybe) but no ones going to deport little children to certain disease, poverty and death.

“Certain” disease, poverty and death. You’re sure of that huh? How about Mexico take responsibility for it’s own people? The American taxpayer has been doing it for years and we’re sick of it. These people make no effort to assimilate, learn english, our history … in fact it’s us who are bending to them. Everything’s popping up in spanish, from aisle signs to radio and TV. Criminals and gangs make up a good portion of what flows over the border.

We can, and should do anything needed to maintain our sovereignty, maintain our culture and traditions and enforce our laws. We’re spending billions on people who couldn’t care less about being American. They just want the freebies that come with “legalization”.

I don’t want to hear or see spanish everywhere … if you do, you know where to go.

darwin on May 20, 2007 at 9:18 AM

Lets get real and discuss something that actually matters! Have you all heard that we may get a reality TV show starring Amy and Joey?

OH HAPPY DAYS!!!

csdeven on May 20, 2007 at 9:21 AM

To think, Americans get thrown in jail everyday for not paying their taxes. But if you’ve been avoiding ALL laws completely by illegally coming into the country and working for cash, then you will be rewarded with a visa and citizenship without having to pay your taxes.

Maybe I should go get Mexican citizenship and then refuse to pay the taxes on my company. Then they’ll say OK and let me be American again for the promise of $5,000.

Vincenzo on May 20, 2007 at 9:29 AM

Vincenzo

True but the problem is here and they are poor most of them. First all that they were probably due in taxes were Social Security and since they were ineligible for it then the principal of taxation without representation kicks in.

It could have been the billions it would have taken to collect millions would not have made a better sound bite.

Its like the stupid rules for the college savings account, instead of just having a simple line item for – did you pay tuition for anyone – we go through some of the wildest family law forms IN A TAX BOOKLET

So we spend billions to grant millions due to bad decisions

EricPWJohnson on May 20, 2007 at 9:40 AM

CSdeven

yes we are its apart of our charm, don’t make us put our beer down!

EricPWJohnson on May 20, 2007 at 9:42 AM

Can we impeach Bush for violating his oath of office by failing to uphold our immigation laws?

Then maybe there would be a chance of a Cheney veto.

cool breeze on May 20, 2007 at 10:05 AM

The man that was on O’Reilly on Friday from the Heritage Foundation said the Z’orro Visa’s will be automatically eligible for 60 to 80 entitlement programs. They will also be entitled to Social Security benefits, however, they won’t make enough to really put anything into Social Security, so expect your taxes to go up. Where is the AARP on this issue?

BTW, when I’ve watched all these protest marches, I can’t recall one time where an illegal invader ever said they wanted to become a citizen of this country. Most have said they already were and that we stole their country. Does anyone in Washington ever watch the news?

moonsbreath on May 20, 2007 at 10:23 AM

Can we impeach Bush for violating his oath of office by failing to uphold our immigation laws?

Then maybe there would be a chance of a Cheney veto.

cool breeze

I’ve never heard Cheney on this issue. Does anyone know what his stance is? However, I’m for impeaching Bush even though I voted for him. He’s not looking into the future of this country at all.

As for hiring people to “do jobs American’s won’t do,” there are plenty of people around the world that would come here, through legal channels, to do those jobs. I’m just not sure exactly what jobs they’re referring to anymore.

moonsbreath on May 20, 2007 at 10:27 AM

First off, 12 million is a very consevative estimate of how many illegals are in the country, I believe its closer to 20 million.

One thing in the bill, according to reports, is that they will essentialy STOP deporting people, between the siging of the bill, and the implementation of the Z Visa (during which there will be a further grace period). Estimates are that it will take 12-18 months to implement the Z visa system. So for 12 -18 months we will have no ICE raids and such happening, just some immediate border enforcment.

We only catch about 1 out of 3 illegals crossing the border. Many are caught multiple times without penalty.

This means that there will be a 12 – 18 month RUN for the border to get into American before the Z Visa Amnesty happens. To get the Z Visa, you will only need 2 non family affidavits as documentation to proove when you were in America… ie… before the signing of the bill to be eligable for the Visa.

This could easily add at least 10 million more illegals to the rolls.

It is unclear, but looks as though only the Head of Household will need the Z visa, which will then propogate amesty to his immediate family. Thus anyone currently here will Grandfather there familys, and dependents, into the legal system, granting them benefits and Social Security.

30 million… add the familys… it will at LEAST double the numbers to 60 million… within 12 – 18 months.

Thats between 15% and 20% of the current population… and does NOT add in the greater LEGAL immigrants this bill will allow (doubles legal immigration as well).

Sorry… way too many, way too fast. These people are coming from cultures where there is no respect for the rule of law (look at Mexico having to use its ARMY to maintain law), and we are reinforcing the fact that the law means nothing…

Romeo13 on May 20, 2007 at 11:00 AM

How about Mexico take responsibility for it’s own people? The American taxpayer has been doing it for years and we’re sick of it. These people make no effort to assimilate, learn english, our history … in fact it’s us who are bending to them. Everything’s popping up in spanish, from aisle signs to radio and TV. Criminals and gangs make up a good portion of what flows over the border.

We can, and should do anything needed to maintain our sovereignty, maintain our culture and traditions and enforce our laws. We’re spending billions on people who couldn’t care less about being American. They just want the freebies that come with “legalization”.

I don’t want to hear or see spanish everywhere … if you do, you know where to go.

darwin on May 20, 2007 at 9:18 AM

Amen to that. I just want these people to learn about, and respect our country, and follow our laws, if they can’t then they’re just visitors with too many benefits and should go home.

4shoes on May 20, 2007 at 11:03 AM

I like Michelle’s The Bigger “F**k You”! posting. That just about sums up the whole thing.

repvoter on May 20, 2007 at 11:30 AM

The real reason they stripped it is because they know illegals wouldn’t comply with it, just like many of them aren’t going to comply by paying the $5,000 penalty. Which is why that’ll end up being stripped too.

Allah

So, when I read the impassioned defense of this mess from idiot Republicans like Kyl, McCain, Snow, and the Georgia peaches, I wonder how they could be so naive and stupid? How can any lucid observer of the history of illegal immigration and the inaction of Congress possibly think that any of the hurdles named in this legislation will stand up to … anything?

Fence? Heh.
Taxes? Already gone.
Fines? Next.
Touchback? Don’t be silly; it’s “symbolic”.
English? 90% of our current population can’t “master” English; how are they going to mandate that? (A cursory examination of these comments is scary enough, and these are the literate ones…) Is Ebonics an acceptable form of language? Psychobabble? Ghetto slang? Pidgeon English? Please…

Jaibones on May 20, 2007 at 12:32 PM

This will never pass… so unbunch your undies folks

…and if it does….Allah will have to ban the lot of us!!

omnipotent on May 20, 2007 at 12:35 PM

The man that was on O’Reilly on Friday from the Heritage Foundation said the Z’orro Visa’s will be automatically eligible for 60 to 80 entitlement programs.

There’s that many entitlement programs???????? I don’t know what he meant by eligible … they get anything we do anyway. Immigration status means nothing. Speaking of O’Reilly, he’s been trying to pander to everyone for a while now, especially with this latest immigration “bill” … he supports it. Bye O’Reilly.

darwin on May 20, 2007 at 12:36 PM

Don’t tempt Allah

really….

EricPWJohnson on May 20, 2007 at 12:59 PM

There’s that many entitlement programs???????? I don’t know what he meant by eligible … they get anything we do anyway. Immigration status means nothing. Speaking of O’Reilly, he’s been trying to pander to everyone for a while now, especially with this latest immigration “bill” … he supports it. Bye O’Reilly.

Yep. O’Reilly’s dead to me after endorsing this bill. Worse, he endorsed KNOWING the damage it will do to the country. And he continues to provide airtime to the racist Geraldo.

jaleach on May 20, 2007 at 1:04 PM

There’s that many entitlement programs????????

There’s a lot of “programs” that none of us have even considered besides Social Security and Medicaid/Medicare.

They will be eligible for programs for low-income families such as housing assistance, school lunch & breakfast programs, grants for college & other education, various food stamp programs, temporary assistance for needy families, social security income for needy families, child support programs, disability programs, etc.

A lot of programs have attached to them sub-programs as well.

moonsbreath on May 20, 2007 at 1:15 PM

I can’t believe they think a majority of citizens are just going to sit back and let this nonsense happen without some sort of response. What are they smoking in D.C.? What do they think is going to happen when they reward lawlessness? Do they think lawlessness will decrease instead of increase? Think of all the unintended consequences that will happen after this legislation passes.

This is an enemy government, folks. It’s an illegal, illegitimate government that doesn’t deserve power anymore. This is a government that has willingly separated itself from the people in order to advance an anti-American agenda. I’m not calling for a civil war, but it won’t matter what I say or do if this legislation passes. Millions of others will eventually act. It might take awhile, but act they will.

jaleach on May 19, 2007 at 6:02 PM

Isn’t that ironic. The US population wants the politicians to follow the law and the politicians want to “change/break the rules”.

Tim Burton on May 20, 2007 at 1:16 PM

What do you do with illegals who were brought here by parents and have been raised here? What do you do with illegals that now have natural born US citizen children? Do you kick a person out of the country who has never known any other place besides the US? Do you deport a half-dozen citizens just to get rid of one who isn’t?

Well, I never knew how to income pay taxes when I was 15, but I was still required to pay. (Father kept me as a deduction)

Life isn’t always easy. It wasn’t fair that my brother had nerve damage from military training. It wasn’t fair that I caught a deadly disease from him that required so much hospitalization that I had to get rid of my business. It wasn’t fair that I had to pay for college.

There is a lot that isn’t fair or easy, but if they broke the law, they still should pay for it. Send the kids home. Most those kids (I work at a public inner-city HS) hate the US anyways. They believe that we screwed them over, that they are owed something. If they are going to hate the US, we might as well give them a reason for it.

Tim Burton on May 20, 2007 at 1:25 PM

omnipotent,

This comment censored……

doriangrey on May 20, 2007 at 1:49 PM

Is anyone else amazed at the republicans lack of learning from the 2006 elections?

Wade on May 19, 2007 at 5:38 PM

No. They think they lost because they were too far to the right (not the case). The fact is that they lost because they moved to the center and no one could tell the difference between them and “conservative” Democrats.

I think they will pay the price for their arrogant betrayal of their base and get their clocks cleaned in ’08. Unfortunately, they deserve it. Its too bad because the dems have really done nothing to earn power (Pelosi, Murtha, Reid, etc deserve nothing but scorn for their borderline treasonous undermining of the administration & war), yet will get it anyway.

jman on May 20, 2007 at 2:18 PM

I would be interested to know the immigration position held by each of the Republican House members that were tossed out on their ears in 2006 but am too lazy to research it myself so I am not going to make any blanket statements. It would be interesting to know, though.

crosspatch on May 20, 2007 at 2:33 PM

Support the Border Patrol Rally
Join other patriots of America to demand pardons for our wrongly convicted border patrol agents who are serving time
Something is terribly wrong when you let lawbreakers go free and lock up our law enforcement officers
Bring your American flags & signs

Date: Saturday, May 19, 2007
Location: Sidewalk located in front of front gates of the Capitol at 11th & Congress, Austin, TX
Time: 11 – 1 p.m.

*******************************************************
MARCH FOR AMERICA RALLY

U.S. Border Watch is proud to sponsor the Texas March For America
Rally. Americans will be Marching on The Capital of every State.

Date: Saturday June 16, 2007
Place: State Capital in Austin
Time: 12:00 noon – 3:00pm
Speakers to be announced.

Join us for informative speakers, music and more.
Law prohibits anyone from selling items on Capital grounds, so bring your own food
and drinks. Bring your flags, lawn chairs and American pride. Summer, you may want to bring an
umbrella for shade.

Please contact U.S. Border Watch for information
http://WWW.USBORDERWATCH.COM

*********************************************************

Showdown in San Antonio, TX
American Patriots vs. Prosecutor Johnny Sutton and the Gonzales Gang

High Noon – Saturday, June 30th, 2007

At Johnny Sutton’s Office in the Bank of America Building

NOTE: More Details to be Released Soon
For the first time we are going to get in Johnny Sutton’s face in person. The American Freedom Riders, the Texas Minutemen organizations, and many others are going to gather in front of Johnny Sutton’s office for a huge demonstration demanding pardons for Ramos, Compean, Hernandez, and Brugman. Ironically, his office is in a Bank of America building.
*******************************************************
Immigration Reform Coalition of Texas
http://www.ircot.com
12400 Hwy 71 West, Suite 350-109
Austin, Texas 78738
USA

RushBaby on May 20, 2007 at 2:40 PM

Well, my letter is sent to my representatives. I asked for the form to waive all penalties for back taxes.

Since the 14th Amendment provides for equal protection, and equal enforcement, this cannot legally or Constitutionally be a provision that only applies to immigrants who live here illegally. Hopefully there’s a form; but if not, then tax law just got trickier.

Justice Stanley Matthews wrote the Court’s opinion in Yick Wo v. Hopkins (1886).[4] He said: “These provisions are universal in their application, to all persons within the territorial jurisdiction, without regard to any differences of race, of color, or of nationality; and the equal protection of the laws is a pledge of the protection of equal laws.” Thus, the Clause would not be limited to discrimination against African Americans, nor would it be limited to equal enforcement of existing laws.

Wikipedia, for Equal Protection Clause agrees…

Best of luck to the IRS prosecuting anyone anywhere for tax evasion when they’ve given an entire class of people immunity from that law for previous lawbreaking.

gekkobear on May 20, 2007 at 2:51 PM

So far from what I have read, this proposal is the best thing I have seen yet as far as being a START towards fixing the problem. The trouble is that all sides want perfection the first time around.

A rare flash of sense in this thread…

I am disappointed in Allah, who I respect, and others, for drawing a transparently false analogy between collecting back taxes from:

a) Legal residents whose employers report their wages, and
b) Illegals who work for cash and leave no paper trail

The whole point of the legislation is to bring these people within the legal economy, at which point they CAN be taxed like the rest of us.

The whole “amnesty” label is just demagogery. If you don’t accept that compromise is inevitable in order to make progress on this issue, you are saying that you’re happy to see the status quo (and the problems with it, some real, others exaggerated to greater or lesser extent) continue. This bill may well not pass, but neither will the draconian measures many of you hardliners are talking about. If this bill, which is substantially the same as the one the President proposed 3-4 years ago, had passed, we would be that much closer to getting a handle on the problem. Kudos to him for making a good-faith effort to tackle it.

LagunaDave on May 20, 2007 at 2:59 PM

but neither will the draconian measures many of you hardliners are talking about

Draconian measures??? I think you’re confused. A better example of draconian measures would be the beating the taxpayer has taken at the expense of providing EVERYTHING to illegal aliens … to include medical care and in-state tutition rates. To label people draconian for demanding that our government preserve our language, culture and traditions and enforce the law is obscene.

The simplest way to rid the country of illegals is to immediately eliminate benefits that they shouldn’t be receiving to begin with. Eliminate those … and crack down on employers and they will go home of their own accord.

Compromise will only be inevitable if it is rammed down the throat of the American public, but since you so convinced it will happen, just roll over and play dead because that’s what you’re expecting out of the rest of us.

darwin on May 20, 2007 at 3:13 PM

I suggest that everyone email Bush and all reps IN SPANISH- protesting this folly.

(Altavista’s BABELFISH can do an adequately mediocre translation of basic English to Spanish for free online.)

E.G.: (I won’t cut and paste for the upside down exclamation marks, since most email programss don’t include them, normally)

Hola El Presidente Jorge!

Protesto esta cuenta de la immigracion!

Defienda las fronteros, primero, o no tendremos ningun pais!

Haga cumplir los leyes existences, primero!

La venta fuera de los Americanos legales para los invasores ilegales es suicidio nacional y politico.

Para el minar de nuestro pais!

[firma]

In English:

I protest this immigration bill!

Defend the borders, first, or we will have no country!

Enforce the existing laws, first!

Selling out the legal Americans for the illegal invaders is national and political suicide!

Stop undermining our country!

[signature]

profitsbeard on May 20, 2007 at 3:17 PM

The real issue is that this problem will never be solved. The reason is that there are too many very influential people making too much money off the way things are now. Look at the political clout of real estate developers, construction and agricultural tycoons in the border region. No matter what is proposed will be rejected because drug cartels alone would be able to pump millions into political campaigns of people who oppose whatever is proposed.

So far from what I have read, this proposal is the best thing I have seen yet as far as being a START towards fixing the problem. The trouble is that all sides want perfection the first time around.

My country is “ate up with the dumbass” to quote an old platoon sergeant of mine.

crosspatch on May 20, 2007 at 5:38 AM

Doing NOTHING would be better than this proposal. This proposal LEGALIZES the family members of each newly legalized resident. Each “worker” can bring his kids, his wife, his parents, and wife’s parents. Let’s just say that’s 8 newly legalized residents for every new one here.

In a country of 300 million, we will be adding a third again of this population in a staggeringly quick amount of time. Think of the impact for taxpayers on education, health care, housing, incarceration, etc, etc, etc. And there is no incentive to become a citizen. No Pledge of Allegiance to the United States. Then there will be a push to give them the vote. Why stop with National Health Care – we’ll see a push for National Rent Controls, and worse.

Immigrants who want to become American citizens, say the pledge and give up their prior citizenship are welcome. Everyone else…Well, that’s why we have to prevent a bill like this from passing. As you say, there may be plenty of people profiting from the situation as it is right now, but the consequences of starting with legalization are even more appalling than the opportunism of some isolated profiteers.

RushBaby on May 20, 2007 at 3:19 PM

“The whole “amnesty” label is just demagogery.”

Yep, I agree 100%. The illegals are against this because it ISNT amnesty. It forces them to get a work permit and leave should they become unemployed. It forces them to register for a legitimate ID and if they don’t register, it imposes much stricter fines on employers who hire unregistered aliens.

This is not amnesty, it is a guest worker program. The work permits are not permanent.

crosspatch on May 20, 2007 at 3:21 PM

Oh, and I am done blogging for a few months. Have at it, folks. See you all on election day.

crosspatch on May 20, 2007 at 3:21 PM

If this bill does pass, it doesn’t take full effect until 18 months later, just when the “new” president is being sworn in. Can this bill be rescended?

moonsbreath on May 20, 2007 at 3:23 PM

Oh, and I am done blogging for a few months. Have at it, folks. See you all on election day.

crosspatch on May 20, 2007 at 3:21 PM

crosspatch, be careful and be well.

Entelechy on May 20, 2007 at 3:27 PM

Yep. O’Reilly’s dead to me after endorsing this bill. Worse, he endorsed KNOWING the damage it will do to the country. And he continues to provide airtime to the racist Geraldo.

jaleach on May 20, 2007 at 1:04 PM

On Fridays show, Bill added a caveate to his support. It had to do with welfare I think. Convenient after all the mail he got after Thursday show. ;-)

csdeven on May 20, 2007 at 3:34 PM

“don’t think deportation is on the table (Tancredos maybe) but no ones going to deport little children to certain disease, poverty and death.”

Don’t fool yourself. It won’t happen overnight but with a secure border it is not only very doable but we must do it. That is if we value America. Some through attrition and others as they come to light through traffic stops background checks etc. It may take ten years but it can and will be done. Your assertion that many “Christians” won’t support this is based on what? Here is one Christian who supports deportation and I know many others too who do support deportation and then some.

“The trouble is that all sides want perfection the first time around. “

Do you mean like 1986 for example? Or is this like a “do over” to you? No sure how you count but this is far from the “first time around”. The American people were given assurances from our elected representatives many times in the past on this issue that have proved to be false and an in fact out right lies. Particularly from 1965 and 1986. They are doing the EXACT same thing now. Never again!

Altura Ct. on May 20, 2007 at 3:39 PM

It won’t happen overnight but with a secure border it is not only very doable but we must do it.
Altura Ct. on May 20, 2007 at 3:39 PM

Truely! If we don’t, we just encourage another generation of immigrants to view the rule of law as worthless. If these children have to go back to their parents country, they’ll grow up understanding that the rule of law has meaning.

csdeven on May 20, 2007 at 3:51 PM

Does anyone else look at that picture with Bush sticking his thumb up and wonder if he’s showing us what he’s been sitting on when it comes to protecting the citizens of this country? Heck, he might need Cheryl Crow to show him how to use the one sheet of toilet paper on that bad boy?

csdeven on May 20, 2007 at 4:08 PM

On Fridays show, Bill added a caveate to his support. It had to do with welfare I think. Convenient after all the mail he got after Thursday show. ;-)

Good for the viewers! I couldn’t believe he was endorsing that bill. Doesn’t he know anything about the people that watch his show. I wouldn’t be surprised at all to see his ratings go into the toilet if he doesn’t change his attitude about this legislation. He also needs to jettison the racist Geraldo. And that body language lady.

jaleach on May 20, 2007 at 5:05 PM

Bradky, et al…

Last year I did a presentation on illegal immigration to a local Conservative group. I just posted some of the documents I used at my blog site, including one from the Hoover institute that claims integration rates of Hispanics (particularly Mexicans) is poor.

Here’s the link: http://www.theright-stuff.com/archives/000569.html

linlithgow on May 20, 2007 at 5:06 PM

Laguna Dave-

Every employer is required to get a Social Security number from their employees; they have a legal obligation to report wages paid. Saying “oh well, we don’t know” is admitting the scale of subtrefuge and illegal activity that has gone on to support the illegal alien population… at the expense of legal taxpayers.

So, if you forget to report some obscure interest income do you think the IRS will be so kind to you if they find out?

I keep saying it: Class action suit, class action suit, class action suit; this is selective enforcement and against the Constitution.

American taxpayer vs. Federal Govt
Legal Visa holders vs. Federal Govt
American taxpayer vs. Mexico

Mexico has a questionable and corrupt system of government. It is not our job to fix it, especially when her own inhabitants, the illegal aliens of today, REFUSE to demand reform. It’s much easier to come to America with your hand out, what with our perpetual “Please don’t hate us, we know everything is our fault” attitude.

Folks, we didn’t get America handed to us on a silver platter; no one said life would be easy either. There are no guarantees in life except for death (since illegals are exempt from back taxes, that no longer falls into the ‘guarantee’ category… unless you’re a legal American resident).

Mexico, for her oil and natural resource wealth, has a huge portion of her population educated at a third world level (a majority of illegals here – approximately 60% – don’t have a High School diploma). That wasn’t America’s doing and it is not fair, in any sense of the word, to ask Americans to cough up dough they should be spending on their families for some John Does whose idea of progress is to march into our country illegally and demand things they aren’t entitled to.

Sure it’s a difficult problem when the Feds have neglected our sovereignty for so long; and the Senate is on the cusp of introducing another 700 – 100 pages of complexity.

linlithgow on May 20, 2007 at 5:31 PM

Bradky, et al…

Last year I did a presentation on illegal immigration to a local Conservative group. I just posted some of the documents I used at my blog site, including one from the Hoover institute that claims integration rates of Hispanics (particularly Mexicans) is poor.

Here’s the link: http://www.theright-stuff.com/archives/000569.html

linlithgow on May 20, 2007 at 5:06 PM

Only one link would allow me to view – rest said I was forbidden access. Interesting but I have to note that in the one from Stanford most of the references that the article cited were 20-29 years old. 1999 seemed to be the most current. I’ll find some others that are more recent. While the paper may be accurate based on the data it used, I would much rather see something not more than five years old for the conclusions it is drawing.

Bradky on May 20, 2007 at 6:20 PM

Thanks for letting me know Bradky; it’s fixed now.

I don’t think the trend has changed dramatically since 1999/2000 for those observations to be invalid, but I understand your concern.

The Census data I found (also on that page), was from 2002. Statistics may be limited based on the information that was public domain at the time; that’s my guess anyway.

If I find anything more recent, I’ll update it. =)

linlithgow on May 20, 2007 at 7:26 PM

linlithgow on May 20, 2007 at 7:26 PM

Thanks for the reply and for fixing the links.

Bradky on May 20, 2007 at 7:41 PM

How about taxing the billions of dollars wired to Mexico from our poor migrant friends?

If they are here legally, there should be no problem getting the money to Mexico by a more transparent mechanism.

Would it would be too harsh to ask that they carry some weight for some of the the taxpayer-funded services they receive?

Valiant on May 20, 2007 at 8:41 PM

I take it that people who want to Impeach Bush..fully understand that even if you had basis to do that, by the time it went through the motions, we’d be close to election time anyway. Wonderful use of tax dollars …oy!

Highrise on May 21, 2007 at 1:18 AM

Why are people, illegals and their bleeding heart advocates, afraid of living within the rule of law? We all are expected to, and our “feelings” have no bearing on the governments decision to enforce said law.

Lets look at this from a realist point of view….if a mother is arrested for a crime and incarcerated for say 2 years, the children are SERIOUSLY affected by this. They go to foster care or to relatives and the court does the best it can for the children yet STILL ENFORCE THE LAW. Guess what? The mother, kids, and relatives eventually GET OVER IT! They come out the other end with the same respect for the law that we all have.

I see no valid reason to enable illegals and their kids to avoid that life lesson and this country is worse for it when we do enable them.

csdeven on May 21, 2007 at 6:31 AM

I think we should militarize the border and send Dog the Bounty Hunter for the rest. He can’t like our Mexican friends to much right now.

tomas on May 21, 2007 at 10:19 AM

I’m sure if I went a few years without paying my taxes they’d have no problem making me comply.

Mark Jaquith on May 21, 2007 at 12:07 PM

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