Results: Hot Air says Rudy Giuliani won second debate
posted at 1:22 pm on May 16, 2007 by Ian
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In the last poll Rudy got 16% while Mitt received an overwhelming 54%. I’m going on a hunch here, but I believe it was his smack down of Ron Paul that did it.
Also, notice the amount of votes Ron Paul received. It’s obvious that Ron Paul supporters are sending people over to skew the poll in favor of their candidate. Charles at Little Green Footballs is having the same problem and has decided to remove Ron Paul from his current poll and future polls.
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Let me be the first to say welcome President Giuliani.
CanaryinaCoalMine on May 16, 2007 at 1:26 PM
Mitt’s my guy but Giuliani won that debate last night hands down. I’m looking forward to the # of people on the stage being reduced so each of the relevant candidates can have more time to speak in greater detail.
Zetterson on May 16, 2007 at 1:28 PM
I vote that Hot Air remove Ron Paul from future polls both for ballot box stuffing and for his unforgivably shameful remarks regarding 9/11.
cool breeze on May 16, 2007 at 1:29 PM
A gun grabbing, baby killing, drag queen who refuses to stop an invasion of our country….I expect nothing less from the Republican party these days.
What the hell are people thinking?
DwnSouthJukin on May 16, 2007 at 1:29 PM
Hey Paulsies…Grow Up!
Vote Frudy 2008
liberrocky on May 16, 2007 at 1:33 PM
I second the vote.
Sammy316 on May 16, 2007 at 1:33 PM
Ruuuuuuuuuuuuuudyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy!
JayHaw Phrenzie on May 16, 2007 at 1:34 PM
All it takes to be perceived as the winner of a debate is one strong phrase (Gules) or witty comment (huckabee)?
Really?
mattshu on May 16, 2007 at 1:36 PM
We are wondering if you “true conservatives” are noticing how you are being played by the Libs in the MSM like Colmes when they use you and your issues to try to torpedo the one GOP candidate they ruly fear.
I wonder are some Republicans really that stupid.
That’s what we are thinking.
Go ahead, nominate Newt and get ready to watch Bill make his second coming to the White House.
JayHaw Phrenzie on May 16, 2007 at 1:37 PM
Guys, just because we disagree with his opinion doesn’t mean he should be removed. He should be removed because his supporters are gaming the system and defeating the purpose of the whole poll.
We’re still deciding what to do …
Ian on May 16, 2007 at 1:37 PM
Understandable, but the spoilers will still be out there. At least with Paul on the tab it’s easy to see where they’re focusing their efforts. Think of him as a kind of garbage bin for bad votes (a bit like Ralph Nader when you think about it).
Blacklake on May 16, 2007 at 1:41 PM
Dude everyone is taking him off their polls (PJ Media, LGF)
It is the right thing to do. Maybe in the future people will be less likely to game polls if they know their canidate will be pulled.
liberrocky on May 16, 2007 at 1:42 PM
I am OK with tolerating disagreements, but you have to draw the line somewhere, like Trutherism. I think Ron Paul has crossed that line.
cool breeze on May 16, 2007 at 1:42 PM
The scary part, though, is when Paul drops out those people who voted for him are still voters.
Ian on May 16, 2007 at 1:43 PM
I’m a bit skeptical of the acutal numbers here. While I can believe that first, second, and third place are in correct order, the fourth place finisher sticks out like a cockroach on a wedding cake.
thirteen28 on May 16, 2007 at 1:43 PM
While you’re at it, take Gilmore out too.
BacaDog on May 16, 2007 at 1:50 PM
The only thing of note said last night was FAIR TAX by Mike Huckabee.
DCJeff on May 16, 2007 at 1:51 PM
Yes, how silly of me to stand for something. I should just follow along simply because Rudy has an “R” by his name…
DwnSouthJukin on May 16, 2007 at 1:53 PM
Easy decision- remove him. His supporters have rigged and cheated in just about every online or text message poll they can get their hands on, have been warned about it at LGF and PJM, yet continue. Paul isn’t a serious candidate, has no chance of winning and almost no real support- especially after the debate last night.
Hollowpoint on May 16, 2007 at 1:54 PM
You know, I’m wondering if we’re seeing the beginnings of a Leftist strategy. I’m still a registered Dem here in Maryland. There’s no way I’d have anything to say during the primaries otherwise. But we’re allowed to ‘cross-vote’ during the Presidential primary, so I was able to vote Republican, in 2000 for McCain, and 2004 for Bush.
Could the Dems be laying the ground work for a massive get-out-the-vote campaign in those states where it’s allowed (and more and more are), and having their nutroots voters vote for Paul? That’d seriously screw up some Republican ballots. Especially in heavily Democratic states like MD.
Am I being paranoid?
nukemhill on May 16, 2007 at 1:54 PM
DwnSouthJukin
The choice you have is to either vote on principal (which is fine–I don’t have a problem with that), and run the real risk of your candidate losing to someone who supports none of your causes, or to vote pragmatically, with the real possibility of Rudy winning in ‘08. Rudy certainly won’t support everything you believe in, but he certainly does support some of them. And given his stand on appointing SCOTUS judges, I’d say you have a real chance at having a Court that would seriously defend what you believe in, potentially for decades.
nukemhill on May 16, 2007 at 1:58 PM
Who cares if Paul gets 82 billion votes in an online poll. He wont get the nod so it’s moot.
I’m unconvinced that any Paul voters would otherwise vote for Rudy/Mitt/McCain.
Dash on May 16, 2007 at 2:01 PM
I *heart* huckabee and the fair tax
lorien1973 on May 16, 2007 at 2:01 PM
As if there’s much really that much difference between Clinton and RINO Rudy. If he gets the nomination, he’ll return to his “moderate” roots so fast it’ll make your head spin.
Vote for gun-grabbing, pro-amnesty, sanctuary city RINO Rudy if you want, but even if my vote came down to making the difference between Rudy winning or losing, I’d still stay home if he got the nomination.
Hollowpoint on May 16, 2007 at 2:02 PM
Is there any sort of proof Ron Paul’s supporters are rigging the polls? Have you traced any IP addresses? Or are these “gaming the polls” assertions just based on the fact you don’t believe Ron Paul should be getting this many votes?
JaHerer22 on May 16, 2007 at 2:03 PM
Once Paul is out of the running, you will not have to worry about his supporters voting. Just spread a rumor that voting machines will record your brainwaves and send them to the NEW WORLD ORDER database.
BohicaTwentyTwo on May 16, 2007 at 2:05 PM
And you honestly believe that a gun-grabbing, anti-Second Amendment RINO who doesn’t have strong feelings about Roe v Wade would actually follow through and nominate a strict constructionist? Spare me.
Hollowpoint on May 16, 2007 at 2:06 PM
Did you catch my comment in another thread? I knew for a while, and finally proved how Paul got such high numbers in the debate (as well as internet polls). It’s just like when Kos dispatches readers to flood MSNBC online polls to make it look like 95% of Americans want to impeach Bush (You remember highlighting those polls in the old days, right Ian?)
Anyway, here’s what I found at Ron Paul’s blog. (Make sure you read after, they’ve deceptively edited the post now)
http://www.ronpaul2008.typepad.com/
Notice anything odd about the section I put in bold? Yeah, the debate didn’t start until 9, yet they were pushing readers to vote starting at 7:30. Typo? I doubt it. And if it was, why not note it? That section now reads:
Either way, this proves what I had been saying all along. It’s just sad that the Ron Paul people hit the HotAir poll too. You guys might want to look in to making the polls “members only” in the future. These people are annoying. They are wild at YouTube about how great he did, etc. and how this is supposed to be such a great thing.. when all that happened was a campaign to bombard Fox with text messages in order to rank Paul high enough to get him some press. Pretty sad that he’s running on deceptive tactics entirely. Anyway, how does this clown differ from Sanjaya?
RightWinged on May 16, 2007 at 2:06 PM
Rudy only won because he was allowed to use Ron Paul as a punching bag (as he should have). Rudy is toast on the issues.
Valiant on May 16, 2007 at 2:08 PM
This is gonna be another pitched internal battle in our ranks. Frankly your answer strikes me as insane, but I’ll try my best to keep an open mind. I don’t care who gets nominated, the republican ticket will get my vote. There’s too much at stake with Iraq and the GWOT, and I think the adults among us realize that. Some times you need to hold your nose when you vote, “for king and country” to borrow a phrase.
Max Power on May 16, 2007 at 2:09 PM
The only thing that saved Rudy last night was the Paul smack down. Period. My impression was he was stumbling completely until he jumped Paul. Mitt recognized it right away (that Rudy scored big). Neither are my favorite but they both walked out of this thing winners. McCain is over and he might as well get started on his third party run.
Paul is a lesson on how the left manipulates polls(yes Birchers skewed it too), and how internet polls(text polls) across the board deserve zero air-time. We need to put them in the box with ‘Chariots of the Gods’.
Limerick on May 16, 2007 at 2:09 PM
I bet Leiberman is kicking himself for not switching parties and running for president as a Republican. He’s everything Rudy is without the baggage.
It’s amazing how many Republicans just want a radical far left president but one who will fight terrorism like a Republican.
Perchant on May 16, 2007 at 2:12 PM
Good idea Hollowpoint, stay home and insure you get someone opposed to everything you’d like to see.
That’s using the old noodle.
Dash on May 16, 2007 at 2:12 PM
Interesting
Gregor on May 16, 2007 at 2:13 PM
Let’s not pretend that these shows are really actual debates. Perhaps, our side will have the common sense to stage real debates between the more serious candidates, instead of these sound-bite performances.
It would be great to see Giuliani, Romney and McCain sit down with a moderator and discuss – in depth – the issues that really matter, where they could display their passions and their knowledge. The Dems would never dare do such a thing, since they have no ideas and cannot ever say what they really believe, but it would be a great merit for our side (and the country would sit up and notice) if real debates and/or discussions were held.
Halley on May 16, 2007 at 2:13 PM
What do you mean – they already ARE doing that!!!
(wink, wink)
thirteen28 on May 16, 2007 at 2:18 PM
JaHerer22 on May 16, 2007 at 2:03 PM
PJM shut out Paul from their polls because of pro-Paul sites linking to the poll and encouraging people to game it.
And as Randy points out, this is not a new tactic in the blogosphere. Since Paul’s campaign obviously knows about blogs, I would really like to see them condemn this.
Ian on May 16, 2007 at 2:20 PM
I think that’s a ridiculous assumption. I don’t like Ron Paul, but I think it’s more an indication of how many liberals there are on this site. How hypocritical is it to remove the guy from the poll for the reason given when it’s just as easy to suggest we remove Giuliani from the poll because Giuliani supporters are daring to vote? Giuliani is an A$$ and the fact that HotAir voters are claiming he won the debate for continually misrepresenting the facts is embarrassing.
Winner of most dishonest statement by any candidate …
“The Fort Dix terrorists did not enter the country through the southern border.”
Why did nobody call him on this?
Gregor on May 16, 2007 at 2:23 PM
I meant to link that statement, so here it is.
Gregor on May 16, 2007 at 2:26 PM
Even the PM poll has spoilers — nothing scientific about online polls YET.
When given an option — name a conservative who votes for either OB or Shrill.
One-liners, mis-information, hypes and sound bytes do not a candidate make — I’m with Romney for the long-haul.
Gull on May 16, 2007 at 2:37 PM
Why is it so ridiculous? The Paul-bots were out in force last night. Even my small blog got a comment trying to “clarify” Paul’s statement on the attacks of September 11.
They’re well-organized, you’ve got to give them that.
Slublog on May 16, 2007 at 2:37 PM
You guys are really fickeled. Don’t misundertand me; if Rudy is left standing, I’ll vote for him. BUT..
Romney has the most to SERIOUSLY offer AND WILL DO.
Your fickelness: If Fred! hops in you’ll leave Rudy in a heartbeat. Anyway, if it Fred! and Romney, I’m still for Romney. On the shake out for the Repubs between them, I’ll vote for either. We must retain the Presidency from the loonacy of the Left.
auspatriotman on May 16, 2007 at 2:44 PM
I didn’t mean that it’s ridiculous to think they are sending people to the polls to vote for the candidate. What I meant was that it’s ridiculous to suggest that this should be grounds to remove the candidate. Giuliani supporters do the same thing. So do Tancredo supporters and Romney supporters.
I just think it’s more likely that Paul’s numbers on these polls (especially the MSNBC poll) are more the result of his bashing of the war and the fanatical response to that from liberals. What all the “Ron Paul won the first debate” hype ignores, is that MSNBC is a liberal news site, so it’s completely expected that the one person bashing the war would win the poll. What MSNBC viewers think is a little meaningless in determining who won a conservative debate.
Gregor on May 16, 2007 at 2:45 PM
Ah. Misread on my part.
Apologies.
Slublog on May 16, 2007 at 2:54 PM
Oh, and MSNBC is pretty useless all-around.
Slublog on May 16, 2007 at 2:54 PM
Many of the readers on this site baffle me in their blind support of Giuliani. The man is an absolute fantastic speaker and he’s completely at-ease when in front of a camera. He’s as good at playing with words and facts as Bill Clinton is, and it seems to be having the same effect.
It seems as though many HotAir readers, and many conservatives in general, would rather have a man who speaks and debates well, over a man who actually shares their ideology and morals.
To me, Tom Tancredo and Duncan Hunter were the only candidates who answered questions honestly and in line with conservative values and beliefs … but look at their standings in the polls. It’s very telling.
Gregor on May 16, 2007 at 3:03 PM
The Paul-bots (hey, I like that!) gamed the Fox News poll too:
Click me.
Ian on May 16, 2007 at 3:03 PM
By the way, don’t digg this thread, some lib hijacked it.
Ian on May 16, 2007 at 3:06 PM
It’s as if the “Vote for the Worst” people got involved.
Rick on May 16, 2007 at 3:38 PM
DwnSth et al: I know all about single issue voting. I am a single issue voter and only care about the most dedicated, meanest candidate who will wage unreeting war on jihadism. Rudy and Fred are the ones who get that. None of our other concerns matter if we are turned into part of the Caliphate or are so cowed by Jihadis that people have to flee the country in fear if they annoy the wrong mullah like in Holland.
I like the Fair Tax, and am fine with a social coservative as long he’s in favor of smaler government. In a different election I could support most of these candidates, despite our differences on some issues. This is not a normal election – even with Shrillary in office the war of jihadism will be stymied by bureaucrats and congressional majority staffers, not to mention the horror of surrender and defeatism of an Edwards/Gore/Obama presidency. This horror will extend far beyond the war to EVERY issue. R vs. D matters because of who they hire – Young Democrats, ACLU, NARAL, etc interns or YAF, NRA, CR interns. That’s an amazingly critical difference, no matter how supposedly small the difference between Shrillary and Rudy.
The NYT HATES, HATES, HATES Rudy and looooves the Shrilldebeast. Rudy really is a social conservative except for 3 issues. I know you’d like a better candidate on your issues but you haven’t come up wth one who has a serious chance or big enough profile. Brownback is amost Paulian in his foreign policy, McCain can’t be trusted, Gilmore’s a nut, and 1 Ark Gov is too many! Rudy wants Alito just as much as you do, but for different reasons. Why argue with it, since you achieve your ends? He’s not great on 2nd either, but his appointees and staffers will be. Let’s win the war, then we can worry about domestic issues.
I have to say that Fred is growing on me, especially his HaMaus comments.
libertarianuberalles on May 16, 2007 at 3:41 PM
Huh? Duncan Hunter and Tom Tancredo don’t get that? Are you even paying attention?
Gregor on May 16, 2007 at 3:43 PM
The results of this poll say more about the denizens of HA than they do about the candidates.
(Why is Townhall.com so much more conservative than HotAir?)
Hiraghm on May 16, 2007 at 3:56 PM
This are moonbats Ian. There are threads in the DU talking about how to drive up Paul’s numbers.
If there is a way to restrict the vote to just registered members of this site (Having us sign in to vote) maybe the way to go.
William Amos on May 16, 2007 at 4:05 PM
There’s a lot more moonbats registered on this site than you might think.
Gregor on May 16, 2007 at 4:09 PM
Giuliani was getting his head handed to him huntil he found a way to grab some glory with his slam on Paul.
I’m not a single-issue voter, but I have four deal-breaker issues. Rudy has three strikes out of those four issues: abortion, gun control, and immigration. And I’m not assuaged in the least by lame assurances that he’ll come through on a SCOTUS nomination.
TexasDan on May 16, 2007 at 4:18 PM
I really don’t see what the problem is. I understand libs may be casting Paul votes, but if it’s an organized effort by the Paul campaign, I say it’s a good strategery to get good press.
At last (visible) count, isn’t it around two with honora being gone? :)
SouthernDem on May 16, 2007 at 4:18 PM
I believe the Hot Air poll could be voted on by anyone. The DU was urging people to vote RP on any number of sites.
William Amos on May 16, 2007 at 4:21 PM
Then I’m afraid you’re part of the problem with regards to the downfall of the Republican party, not the solution.
Just how far to we let the party slide to the left on spending, growth of government, immigration, increased regulations, more gun laws, more entitlement programs, etc, etc, etc, before we draw a line in the sand and say “ENOUGH!” to the likes of NRCC chair Cole, who wants to move the party to appeal more to “moderates”?. Are you willing to sit by and watch the Republican party slowly morph into a center left party, with the Democrats similarly shifting further left?
If the loss of both houses of Congress after the abysmal performance of Republican Congressmen and President Bush wasn’t a wakeup call, I shudder to think what it would take.
RINO Rudy, “Maverick” McCain and Flip-Flop Mitt should’ve all been thrown under the bus by now. The Democrats have given us a gift in making weak candidates like Hillary, Obama and Edwards their frontrunners. There’s absolutely no reason at all a conservative can’t win this race, but no reason to believe they derserve to win if they continue to abandon the principles the Republican party is supposed to stand for.
Hollowpoint on May 16, 2007 at 4:37 PM
I agree Rudy is not where conservatives should be staking the future of their party on.
MarkB on May 16, 2007 at 4:42 PM
Paraphrasing a very witty (Steyn-like?) commentator over at FR after the first debate:
To which I added: Plus every liberal, anti-war nutcase Dem. voted for him, based only on his cut and run strategy, ..(little realizing that Paul’s core Constitutionalist beliefs are antithetical to what they want in government).
LegendHasIt on May 16, 2007 at 4:57 PM
Anyone blind to the fact that any republican is better than any democrat is obviously hooked on selfish issues. Does any conservative here think that kerry or gore would have done as well as bush has? The same is true this year. ANY republican is better than ANY democrat ANY DAY. The people that want to stay home because their guy didn’t get the nomination obviously did not live through Ross Perot. That mentality got us 8 years of slick willy.
csdeven on May 16, 2007 at 5:03 PM
Almost all of the candidates get that. What else ya got?
DwnSouthJukin on May 16, 2007 at 5:07 PM
Rudy won the debate? That just goes to show how shallow some people go when evaluating a candidates performance. Rudy had one good line against the stupidest candidate of the ten. Why don’t we debate Rosie on trutherism and then claim ourselves something special? The rest of Rudys performance was nothing special. I gave my vote to Mitt! and I thought Huckabee did much better than Rudy or McCain.
csdeven on May 16, 2007 at 5:08 PM
Rudy is a gun grabber.
Enough said.
JackM on May 16, 2007 at 5:31 PM
I would vote for Ron Paul before I voted for that assh*le Giuliani, who launched his political career by Nifonging Michael Milkin. Giuliani is not smart, he’s just sly. There is one hell of a difference… he’s the Republican party’s Clinton.
Franklin Hill on May 16, 2007 at 5:41 PM
Who even knew Ron Paul HAD supporters? Well, he’s obviously crazy… If he didn’t have many, he’ll wrangle in tons of them from the lefties after this latest diatribe.
Our foriegn policy caused 9-11. Might as well say the bible caused it. Or a lack of leafblowers for sale at Home Depot caused it. Maybe it was because the Saudis live in a desert, and we were hogging all the ice cream. It could be because Primus had an album named “Pork Soda.”
Funny. I thought it was jihadis flying planes into our buildings that caused it.
Why should any of us even care why they did it? Any group that would commit that kind of murder is the enemy. Their motive has no relevance after such a level has been reached. They do not deserve any further consideration on any front after that event.
It should have been a clarifying moment. It should have defined who the bad guys are. Thanks for clouding the issue Ron. You’ve sucessfully redefined the word “dope” for me.
I don’t think anyone is going to suddenly announce that all of the victims of beheadings done in the name of islam were self inflicted. But it would make about as much sense as Ron’s position on this.
Look! There is a headless body lying over there. The poor guy must have accidentally sawed his own head off. Natch!
JunkCoast on May 16, 2007 at 5:51 PM
Nonsense. I voted in that election, and had Perot pegged as the nutcase he was.
Those who mindlessly vote on party lines without evaluating the merits of the actual candidate are one of the greatest drawbacks of the two-party system and reasons for the problems the party is having now. I voted for “moderates” like Dole, HW Bush and GW Bush in the past… but after the horrible performance the Republicans have given as of late, they don’t deserve a mindless party-line vote without a candidate demonstrably worth voting for.
RINO Rudy, Maverick McCain, and Flip-Flop Mitt, in my opinion as a conservative, simply aren’t worth voting for. If it takes a Democrat in office to convince the party that perhaps more RINOs isn’t the answer, then so be it. Just don’t expect me to vote for someone who’ve governed in a way that suggests that they just as easily have a (D) next to their name.
Hollowpoint on May 16, 2007 at 5:54 PM
I second that!
What’s even worse than those who blindly vote for the R in the general election, are those who refuse to vote for the candidate in the primary who actually fit the conservative label. You have the ability to give yourself a real conservative, but instead you vote for a closet liberal to represent your party?
THIS ISN’T THE GENERAL ELECTION PEOPLE! It’s the PRIMARY. You CHOOSE who you want to represent your party, so all this nonsense about voting for Giuliani in the primary so we won’t get Billary is about as stupid as it gets.
Gregor on May 16, 2007 at 6:21 PM
So voting blindly for a Republican during a time of war and chaos is stupid? Hmmm….
Max Power on May 16, 2007 at 7:16 PM
Fred could be too late if Guiliani starts to pick up steam. His well stated position on abortion has earned him the interest of many moderates. More importantly he seems to be saying that he trusts Americans to choose what is right – little echo of Reagan.
From purely strategic point of view if New York goes to the Republicans, so goes the election. Dems can’t recover from that loss. Rudy has the best chance of any republicans to pull off that trick.
Bradky on May 16, 2007 at 7:36 PM
Well if you lived through Perot as you claim you didn’t learn a damn thing. “Punishing the party” for Bush’s failures is what got us 8 years of Clinton, the AWB, Robert Maplethorpe, the total denegration for the office of president, a desimated intel community and military, the expansion of terrorism and the freedom for OBL to attack us on 9/11, and now the threat of Hillary as the president. Why don’t you really teach us all a lesson and vote democrat in the next election? Boy oh boy, that’ll REALLY show us and we’ll suffer through 4 years of Hillary just so those with your attitude could have the pleasure of cutting off their nose to spite their face because they can’t see the real threat to our national security.
csdeven on May 16, 2007 at 10:55 PM
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