Rumors fly: GOP leaders set to cave on amnesty

posted at 10:17 pm on May 15, 2007 by Allahpundit

Alarms are sounding. Red State says Reid’s going to force a vote on the compromise bill before Republican hardliners have a chance to review it. Jed Babbin claims the Dems are trying to expand the number of relatives a legalized alien would be allowed to bring in with him. And now the LA Times reports that both sides have agreed to the scarlet “A” in the form of a measure labelled, ironically, with a Z.

With a deadline looming to craft an accord on immigration reform, a bipartisan group of senators has agreed that their final compromise should immediately grant legal status to all illegal immigrants currently in the U.S…

[T]hey have settled on a plan that would award a “Z visa” to all qualified illegal immigrants in the country before a date that has yet to be decided. Applicants would have to pass security checks, learn English and pay a $5,000 fine.

The visa would have an eight-year probation period, during which time the head of the household would have to return to his home country and then re-enter the U.S. They would have to take their “Z visa” to the U.S. Embassy or consulate and would be guaranteed re-entry to the U.S.

Not a word is mentioned in the piece about border enforcement, but you will be pleased to know that they’ve agreed to let illegal aliens attend state colleges at in-state tuition rates as part of the deal.

Reid threatened earlier today to cancel the compromise bill entirely if a final deal wasn’t reached tonight and resubmit the bill they passed this last year in its place. But what do you know — at Teddy’s request, he’s had a change of heart and has extended the deadline until Monday.

Sounds like the only big issue still keeping them apart is how “temporary” the temporary guest worker program should be. Once it comes to the floor, it stands a great chance of passing: with bipartisan support among the leadership, they might very well have the 60 votes needed to bust the filibuster. And lord knows, they don’t have to worry about a veto.

I fear we need a miracle, my friends — a savior, like Bruce Campbell in “Evil Dead 2,” to deliver us from the amnesty demon.

But where would we find such a man as that?

tancredo-lancelot.jpg


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Traitors.

As for Tanc…heh, He’s busy chasing windmills on FNC.

Bad Candy on May 15, 2007 at 10:24 PM

Ay Caramba!

JayHaw Phrenzie on May 15, 2007 at 10:26 PM

My friends, we’re screwed.

amerpundit on May 15, 2007 at 10:30 PM

First defend the borders.

The rest will follow.

The medical models:

First clear the airway.

First control the bleeding.

First stabilize the patient.

We got a Congress of quacks, snake-oil salesmen, bunco-artists, pimps and shysters.

Until you do the first, most important, and elementary thing, nothing else matters.

The Department of Smoke and Mirrors marches on.

Abyss ahead.

profitsbeard on May 15, 2007 at 10:30 PM

@#$%^& Harry Reid, the =@#$%^&* Democrats and the @#$%^&* RINOS!

georgej on May 15, 2007 at 10:30 PM

Red State says Reid’s going to force a vote on the compromise bill before Republican hardliners have a chance to review it

And the Chimperor will sign it.

Valiant on May 15, 2007 at 10:33 PM

Not surprising, really. For all y’all that “stayed home” last November, don’t start crying now!

SouthernGent on May 15, 2007 at 10:35 PM

Not a word is mentioned in the piece about border enforcement, but you will be pleased to know that they’ve agreed to let illegal aliens attend state colleges at in-state tuition rates as part of the deal.

NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!

4shoes on May 15, 2007 at 10:37 PM

I’ll state this flat out.

If the Republicans don’t stand firm on the border, they have lost my vote next election.

We need a third party, one not made up of Rhinos.

Romeo13 on May 15, 2007 at 10:37 PM

Compared to the RINO scourge and insane statements of Ron Paul, Tanc performed well in the debate.

Valiant on May 15, 2007 at 10:40 PM

So long, Sovereignty! Now I know what a good back-stabbin’ feels like.

hillbillyjim on May 15, 2007 at 10:40 PM

I’ve said it before:
Cease all foreign Visas, secure the borders, and arm yourselves to the teeth.

Vote for Me.

Tru2my2 on May 15, 2007 at 10:49 PM

In 10 years, Republicans will never be elected again, because the Dems will recruit all those criminals to their side when they start getting citizenship (or even before they do).

Republicans are fools.

Tim Burton on May 15, 2007 at 10:50 PM

We had a House that fought to keep the #%&! Amnesty Bill from passing. We lost that House in the last election. Like it or not, this is what America voted for. Maybe we’ll remember this in ’08′. Maybe we won’t.

Hasta la vista, America.

DannoJyd on May 15, 2007 at 10:50 PM

Get ready for a new war if this amnesty goes through. They have created a racism that will not be appeased. The war between real Americans and the interlopers will heat up and continue unabated. The ugliness is about to begin. Yes, and do call Jack Bauer , we are going to need him!

Mellen on May 15, 2007 at 10:52 PM

Sean Hannity has McCain on now and is doing nothing but kiss his ass. Its shameful how our so-called leaders care NOTHING about their own people.

Rudy was just on saying how we should send the “criminal illegals” home. Gee thanks Rudy, too bad you didnt give a shit about YOUR OWN PEOPLE BEFORE THEY WERE RAPED, MURDERED, STOLEN FROM, RUN OUT OF AMERICAN NEIGHBORHOODS, ETC…

ahhhhh, I cant hardly speak Im so mad….

DwnSouthJukin on May 15, 2007 at 10:52 PM

I suggest everyone redo your tax form….Place the number 11 for dependants….Let’s keep the money out of the criminals hands.

Mellen on May 15, 2007 at 10:53 PM

That’s it, I’m goin’ fishin’.

–Hank Hill

The Ugly American on May 15, 2007 at 10:53 PM

Someone remind me. We still maintain the INS for …… what?

fogw on May 15, 2007 at 10:56 PM

I agree with the above. If this bill passes, America is screwed.

PRCalDude on May 15, 2007 at 11:12 PM

Why are they caving ? 56% of Americans want ENFOREMENT ONLY NO AMNESTY as their choice !

They are on the right side of this issue !

William Amos on May 15, 2007 at 11:16 PM

Fear not! I should remind you all this isn’t the first time amnesty was handed to illegal aliens. Of course there’s a price to pay, and of course I think this really, really sucks! The next step is to remove these @sshats from office and replace them with people who care about enforcing our borders and immigration policies.

thedecider on May 15, 2007 at 11:18 PM

Things are going to get real ugly, real fast! For those who don’t think the sovereignty of this nation is worth openly fighting for, then stay cloistered in your safe and sound homes and let the real patriots deal with the situation. And don’t be crying about the methodology used, they leave little options, and it is for our country afterall. Pity, it didn’t have to come to this.

Chief1942 on May 15, 2007 at 11:37 PM

Things are going to get real ugly, real fast! For those who don’t think the sovereignty of this nation is worth openly fighting for, then stay cloistered in your safe and sound homes and let the real patriots deal with the situation. And don’t be crying about the methodology used, they leave little options, and it is for our country afterall. Pity, it didn’t have to come to this.

Yep, grim times ahead. Best to stock up on the ammo and prepare for the civil war that’s definitely coming around the bend. You’re right, it didn’t have to come to this. But a couple of greedy f***heads wanted to make a few bucks by making an end run around the American worker. They’re going to reap what they sow. Going to be tough to turn a profit when the corporate headquarters is on fire and the country’s exploding.

jaleach on May 15, 2007 at 11:49 PM

KFI radio said this afternoon that Reid was going to hand the senators 700+ pages of the bill and call for a vote shortly after.

The only hope for some semblance of sanity is in the House and Tancredo was a disappointment tonight on the topic. He could have driven that home to all of America, and floundered.

Entelechy on May 15, 2007 at 11:58 PM

Dare they try this this close to an election? Goodnes, McCain didn’t drop his bill cold turkey for nothing.

This will not play well for Republicans and they know it. Did you all hear the cheering at the talk of border enforcement? Sheesh what are these crackpots thinking?

I’m thinking this last gap is exactly that. The Republicans were supposed to cave during the last amnesty scare. Even if it gets passed the Senate the Blue Dogs aren’t dumb. Heath Schuler’s district did’nt go pro amnesty when they elected him.

Exit question: Does Lindsey Graham make it out of the 2009 primary?

Theworldisnotenough on May 16, 2007 at 12:25 AM

Entelechy, I guess it is time for me to give you a keep your chin up talk. I agree that Tancredo should have said more with the ILLEGAL Alien Bill comming to a vote, but politically tonight will fade right off of the radar within a few weeks. I’m not going to get worked up until next year.

I am all for the big tent idea of politics. I believe we should make the Mexican Immigration law our law.

DannoJyd on May 16, 2007 at 12:33 AM

While the purpose of a snap vote is obviously to sneak through unconstitutional garbage, the main ideas of this bill I happen to agree with.

- These people are already here and working. We know that 99.999.. percent of them are not terrorists because there just aren’t that many attacks here. The criminals of course should go back, but the only way to separate the criminals is to allow the real workers to get in the system.
- Having people paid above the table brings in more tax revenue that below the table.
- If we don’t allow workers to come here, the jobs will go there. It seems that already about half the earnings of S&P 500 companies come from overseas, so they know how to do it already. If we don’t keep labors costs competitive, future growth will go to other countries.
- The current unemployment rate is only 4.5%. I know firsthand how difficult it is to be unemployed, but if we drive out low wage workers, costs will go way up to replace those workers, and so people will cut back in other areas or just plain do without the services. The net result is a slowdown in the economy and a lot of people who have jobs now will lose them, perhaps to the very people who were sent away to work in another country.
- It’s just not Christian, or Jewish, to put someone out of work just because of where they are from.

pedestrian on May 16, 2007 at 12:35 AM

- It’s just not Christian, or Jewish, to put someone out of work just because of where they are from.

pedestrian on May 16, 2007 at 12:35 AM

They need to obey the orders of those appointed over them just like everyone else (Romans 13). They’ve taken benefits they’re not entitled to (stealing) and taught their children to scoff at the law. Christians need to read what their Bibles say about civil government before they jump on the ‘no person is illegal’ bandwagon.

PRCalDude on May 16, 2007 at 12:58 AM

You know, if I have to pay an extra quarter for a head of lettuce, I’ll pay it if it means keeping the country I love in tact.

gmoonster on May 16, 2007 at 1:00 AM

- It’s just not Christian, or Jewish, to put someone out of work just because of where they are from.

pedestrian on May 16, 2007 at 12:35 AM

You mean like the foreigners who live here ilegally are doing to our poor? THE hardest hit by open borders are the low-wage earners.

Mojave Mark on May 16, 2007 at 1:01 AM

They need to obey the orders of those appointed over them just like everyone else (Romans 13).

You mean like the foreigners who live here ilegally are doing to our poor?

This whole process is about changing the laws, so they will no longer be illegal.

THE hardest hit by open borders are the low-wage earners.

The low wager earners will be even harder hit when all their customers are forced to go to another country and spend their money there instead.

pedestrian on May 16, 2007 at 1:05 AM

- It’s just not Christian, or Jewish, to put someone out of work just because of where they are from.

pedestrian on May 16, 2007 at 12:35 AM

Heh. Where is that written? Sounds more like something from the diversity / inclusion manual.

AZ_Redneck on May 16, 2007 at 1:16 AM

Rumors fly: GOP leaders set to cave on amnesty.

A: They aren’t ‘caving’; they always intended to go with amnesty.

B: Expecting them not to cave, even were not A: a given is the height of folly.

LegendHasIt on May 16, 2007 at 4:35 AM

good luck getting 5 large out of these workers

EricPWJohnson on May 16, 2007 at 5:46 AM

Best to stock up on the ammo and prepare for the civil war that’s definitely coming around the bend.

So, Chief1942 and jaleach, are you actually organizing a militia or just letting off steam? Who gets shot against a wall first when the revolution comes — the capitalist bosses and their boot-licking running-dog lackeys, or the foreign infiltrators?

I appreciate that feelings run high on this issue. I myself have been known to grumble, in times of frustration, about the need to hang some prominent Democrats from the capitol lamp-posts. But do try to read what you’ve written before you punch the “submit comment” button.

The immigration issue would not be a problem if we didn’t have the bigger problem of multiculturalism. Protestant nativists were mad about Teddy Roosevelt letting in the Irish and the Italians — I know, because I am descended from such nativists on the Massachusetts branch of my mother’s family. There was massive illegal immigration during the “Ellis Island” years, contrary to popular myth. But, with the exception of the Kennedey family, disaster did not follow because this earlier wave of immigrants were encouraged to integrate into American society.

So we can sit at home and oil our guns, or we can do what needs to be done at the ballot box. Vote against entitlements, vote against multi-cultural initiatives, and vote out the amnesty-granters.

Anton on May 16, 2007 at 7:39 AM

..you will be pleased to know that they’ve agreed to let illegal aliens attend state colleges at in-state tuition rates as part of the deal.

Isn’t that peachy.

My kid wants to go to Duke next year and the out of state tuition is a killer. I guess I should change my name to Hernandez and sneak across the North Carolina border so I can get the good rate.

BacaDog on May 16, 2007 at 7:40 AM

But a couple of greedy f***heads wanted to make a few bucks by making an end run around the American worker. They’re going to reap what they sow. Going to be tough to turn a profit when the corporate headquarters is on fire and the country’s exploding.

jaleach on May 15, 2007 at 11:49 PM

Sounds kind of like a union talking points excerpt. And you sound a little joyful about the prediction – hope I’m reading too much into it.

BacaDog on May 16, 2007 at 7:40 AM

You could always move there and establish residency. Is he a senior yet?

Bradky on May 16, 2007 at 8:01 AM

And the stupid Republicans STILL can’t figure out how they lost Congress last year? They got fired for their RINO ways….however, those who did the firing should have figured out that the alternative was much worse. God help us all.

lynnv on May 16, 2007 at 8:06 AM

And what is the penalty if the illegal can’t come up with $5,000? What government agency is going to test them to see if they know English? What is the criteria for security checks? Details, please!

ctmom on May 16, 2007 at 8:09 AM

In-state tuition for an alien. We get punished for being citizens.

The Republicans can’t even make a logical argument against this inane proposal, let alone a complete bill.

right2bright on May 16, 2007 at 8:12 AM

BacaDog on May 16, 2007 at 7:40 AM

I hear ya.

I’ve got two kids in a small liberal arts college in PA because it’s next to impossible to get into NJ state colleges anymore for in-staters. They are filled with international students whose tuition is paid by their princely uncles in Saudi Arabia, and “diversity” students who get a free ride courtesy of NJ taxpayers.

The course catalogue at Rutgers (which, by the way, has its very own strain of venereal disease) is filled with remedial English and Math classes as well as English as a Second Language classes–so much so that qualified, English-speaking, American freshmen generally have schedules that begin at 7am and end at 8pm, with six-hour gaps in the middle of the day. So much for commuting.

Also, since 2000, students have been told to expect a five-year course of study to obtain a Bachelor’s degree–all because it is impossible to get into the classes needed for graduation.

That I-R-I-S-H with one “Ei”

IrishEi on May 16, 2007 at 8:13 AM

So we can sit at home and oil our guns, or we can do what needs to be done at the ballot box. Vote against entitlements, vote against multi-cultural initiatives, and vote out the amnesty-granters.

This last election, we punished open borders pubs and elected immigration hawk dems. We are still in the same boat. Neither party is looking out for the American people. Thus what good is the ballot box?

If this isn’t bad enough, there is always the open border’s trump card, activist judges. So even if we were to elect pols that have the American citizen’s interests at heart, the legislating justices would simply undo any progress made on that front.

When legislative and judicial means are rendered useless, a state we are presently witnessing, what alternatives do the American people have?

voiceofreason on May 16, 2007 at 8:52 AM

Team Tancredo
NOW MORE THAN EVER

400lb Gorilla on May 16, 2007 at 9:02 AM

They may get away with it but they’ll never live it down. The gutless panderers should be driven out of office.

rplat on May 16, 2007 at 9:09 AM

When legislative and judicial means are rendered useless, a state we are presently witnessing, what alternatives do the American people have?

voiceofreason on May 16, 2007 at 8:52 AM

I have read about some folks that drew up the list of grievances and usurpations, and declared to the then current government that they could govern themselves.

AZ_Redneck on May 16, 2007 at 9:47 AM

Least We not Forget

When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.–That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, –That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.–Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.

He has refused his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.
He has forbidden his Governors to pass Laws of immediate and pressing importance, unless suspended in their operation till his Assent should be obtained; and when so suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend to them.
He has refused to pass other Laws for the accommodation of large districts of people, unless those people would relinquish the right of Representation in the Legislature, a right inestimable to them and formidable to tyrants only.
He has called together legislative bodies at places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant from the depository of their public Records, for the sole purpose of fatiguing them into compliance with his measures.
He has dissolved Representative Houses repeatedly, for opposing with manly firmness his invasions on the rights of the people.
He has refused for a long time, after such dissolutions, to cause others to be elected; whereby the Legislative powers, incapable of Annihilation, have returned to the People at large for their exercise; the State remaining in the mean time exposed to all the dangers of invasion from without, and convulsions within.
He has endeavoured to prevent the population of these States; for that purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migrations hither, and raising the conditions of new Appropriations of Lands.
He has obstructed the Administration of Justice, by refusing his Assent to Laws for establishing Judiciary powers.
He has made Judges dependent on his Will alone, for the tenure of their offices, and the amount and payment of their salaries.
He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harrass our people, and eat out their substance.
He has kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies without the Consent of our legislatures.
He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil power.
He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his Assent to their Acts of pretended Legislation:
For Quartering large bodies of armed troops among us:
For protecting them, by a mock Trial, from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:
For cutting off our Trade with all parts of the world:
For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:
For depriving us in many cases, of the benefits of Trial by Jury:
For transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended offences
For abolishing the free System of English Laws in a neighbouring Province, establishing therein an Arbitrary government, and enlarging its Boundaries so as to render it at once an example and fit instrument for introducing the same absolute rule into these Colonies:
For taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable Laws, and altering fundamentally the Forms of our Governments:
For suspending our own Legislatures, and declaring themselves invested with power to legislate for us in all cases whatsoever.
He has abdicated Government here, by declaring us out of his Protection and waging War against us.
He has plundered our seas, ravaged our Coasts, burnt our towns, and destroyed the lives of our people.
He is at this time transporting large Armies of foreign Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy the Head of a civilized nation.
He has constrained our fellow Citizens taken Captive on the high Seas to bear Arms against their Country, to become the executioners of their friends and Brethren, or to fall themselves by their Hands.
He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us, and has endeavoured to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers, the merciless Indian Savages, whose known rule of warfare, is an undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes and conditions.

In every stage of these Oppressions We have Petitioned for Redress in the most humble terms: Our repeated Petitions have been answered only by repeated injury. A Prince whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people.

Nor have We been wanting in attentions to our Brittish brethren. We have warned them from time to time of attempts by their legislature to extend an unwarrantable jurisdiction over us. We have reminded them of the circumstances of our emigration and settlement here. We have appealed to their native justice and magnanimity, and we have conjured them by the ties of our common kindred to disavow these usurpations, which, would inevitably interrupt our connections and correspondence. They too have been deaf to the voice of justice and of consanguinity. We must, therefore, acquiesce in the necessity, which denounces our Separation, and hold them, as we hold the rest of mankind, Enemies in War, in Peace Friends.

We, therefore, the Representatives of the united States of America, in General Congress, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the Name, and by Authority of the good People of these Colonies, solemnly publish and declare, That these United Colonies are, and of Right ought to be Free and Independent States; that they are Absolved from all Allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political connection between them and the State of Great Britain, is and ought to be totally dissolved; and that as Free and Independent States, they have full Power to levy War, conclude Peace, contract Alliances, establish Commerce, and to do all other Acts and Things which Independent States may of right do. And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor.

AZPatriot on May 16, 2007 at 10:13 AM

Ron Paul is a fucking knucklehead. He should be the oddball centrist candidate for the Democrat nomination…

Jaibones on May 16, 2007 at 10:15 AM

Oops; wrong post.

Jaibones on May 16, 2007 at 10:16 AM

My kid wants to go to Duke next year and the out of state tuition is a killer. I guess I should change my name to Hernandez and sneak across the North Carolina border so I can get the good rate.

BacaDog on May 16, 2007 at 7:40 AM

Duke’s private buddy, you’d be paying $40K a year even if you lived next door to campus.

JaHerer22 on May 16, 2007 at 10:42 AM

When legislative and judicial means are rendered useless, a state we are presently witnessing, what alternatives do the American people have?

voiceofreason on May 16, 2007 at 8:52 AM

One alternative is to organize mass demonstrations like last year’s May-day rallies in Los Angeles and other cities, but do it for the pro-enforcement cause. Now this won’t happen, because people who don’t like illegal immigration will be more scared of seeming “racist” since most of the illegals are brown. Once again, I return to the idea that multi-culturalism is in fact the bigger root-cause problem here.

I like Mexican music. I can play some, in fact (badly). If you want to see what Mexico would look like if their government wasn’t irredeemably corrupt, just visit the great city of San Antonio. I am against illegal immigration, but not against Mexican legal immigration. Just see how fast some liberal will call me a racist for trying to make that distinction.

Like it or not, until politicians see evidence of a mass close-the-borders movement, they are going to go with what they believe is the consensus. The liberal ones will push for total amnnesty. The conservative ones will bicker over how many years you have to reside illegally to get amnesty, and how big a fine must be paid. Neither will satisfy the Minutemen types (full disclosure: I’ve sent the Minutemen money).

So do we have the numbers or not? Polls say we do, but I’m not so sure anyone but us blogosphere politics-junkies really care.

Anton on May 16, 2007 at 10:52 AM

The Republican party has been trying to commit suicide for years now.
The effort seems to be succeeding, elected Republicans are working very hard at becoming no more relevant than the Pansexual Peace Party.
Because of immoral cowardice, bu bye guarantee of a Republican form of government, hello communist worker hive, welcome THX1138.

Speakup on May 16, 2007 at 11:17 AM

Pass this amnesty and I pass up on the Republican Party period.

tommy1 on May 16, 2007 at 12:27 PM

If the Republicans support amnesty to any degree, they are dead as a party. That any would be cooperating with the criminal and America hating Democrats in the Senate is beyond sickening.

ptolemy on May 16, 2007 at 12:38 PM

DannoJyd on May 16, 2007 at 12:33 AM

Danno, I agree. June of this year will be very telling. And, yes, it’s way early. We need to stick together, though. I’ll never follow over to the socia*ist camp :)

Entelechy on May 16, 2007 at 12:54 PM

- It’s just not Christian, or Jewish, to put someone out of work just because of where they are from.

Heh. Where is that written? Sounds more like something from the diversity / inclusion manual.

Galatians 3:28

There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

pedestrian on May 16, 2007 at 1:14 PM

One alternative is to organize mass demonstrations like last year’s May-day rallies in Los Angeles and other cities, but do it for the pro-enforcement cause. Now this won’t happen, because people who don’t like illegal immigration will be more scared of seeming “racist” since most of the illegals are brown. Once again, I return to the idea that multi-culturalism is in fact the bigger root-cause problem here.

Things will never change until our “leaders” fear the people more than the leftist press….which pretty much coincides with AZPatriot’s post. Either we do it again or we lose the country (if amnesty is given). Talk doesnt change a thing if you’re talking to people too cowardly/corrupt to listen.

Someone lead, I’ll follow

DwnSouthJukin on May 16, 2007 at 1:26 PM

we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor.

I think they meant it. Ours is a loyalty lost.

Merchants have no country. The mere spot they stand on does not constitute so strong an attachment as that from which they draw their gains.
Thomas Jefferson

Speakup on May 16, 2007 at 3:26 PM

“That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.”

Az_redneck, the last time we tried to separate from an oppressive central government, we were cruelly crushed and our culture destroyed.

I don’t see us being much more successful this time.

Speakup, that quote so aptly describes the current situation in America. In the 1970s, when we were attacked economically by the Japanese, Koreans, Europeans, et al, and our own government was telling us we would have to learn to do with less, be just another country, etc, the “merchant mentality” arose Price became the, pardon the pun, bottom line. Quality mattered not at all, excuses were made for betraying our national industries, who were already competing on an unlevel playing field. So today the most common morality is measured in dollar signs.

Hiraghm on May 16, 2007 at 3:38 PM

Terrible

RD on May 16, 2007 at 4:20 PM

pedestrian on May 16, 2007 at 1:14 PM

I have observed this verse being used as an argument to abolish distinction in the male-female role in marriage and/or the church. But, not as an argumentive pillar regarding immigration. That’s new.

If you survey early church fathers, you will barely find any discourse on this passage. In those instances, the early church finds those passages lucid.

Also, if you put a little context around it:

26)You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus, (27)for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. (28)There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. (29)If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise. (Galatians 3:26-29)

I can not fathom your point. Try again?

AZ_Redneck on May 16, 2007 at 4:26 PM

Az_redneck, the last time we tried to separate from an oppressive central government, we were cruelly crushed and our culture destroyed.

Hiraghm on May 16, 2007 at 3:38 PM

My assumption is you referring to the Confederate War for Independence? To quote another …

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

Thomas Jefferson

AZ_Redneck on May 16, 2007 at 4:39 PM

Anton, You see anything in my post that refers to guns? An open revolt of that nature would simply be playing right into their hands. Marshall Law on a moments notice ala NOLA during Katrina and call out the National Guard. And no, it is not the “illegals” who are really to blame here as they are simply being exploited by the US Chamber of Commerce and it’s members nationwide, along with the Democrats who could really care less about these poor people except for the allegience at the voting box.

But one might really want to get used to a Democratic Congress and White House for the next few decades at a minimum. What was left of the Republican base will now leave like rats leaving a burning ship. If the Republicans cave on this issue, they will set a course for a downward spiral in this nation’s political discourse that at some point may end in what you misread into my post, open armed confrontation between opposing socio/political ideologies. Anyone who buys into the old “United We Stand” crap has not been paying attention.

And there are many ways of “fighting for this nation’s sovereignty” without resorting to open rebellion. Something much more clandestine is however not out of the question.

Chief1942 on May 16, 2007 at 9:03 PM