There are, unfortunately, plenty of Christian Fundamentalists with more in common with Islamic Fundamentalists then people would care to admit. I suppose the argument could be made that sects who are virulently anti-gay, anti-woman and anti-science aren’t really Christian, but the same can be said for Muslims who espouse those beliefs.

Krydor on May 14, 2007 at 2:56 PM

The next time theres a militant Christian rally, please notify us here. The only requirement is their must be thousands of people screaming ‘death to(fill in the blank)’ topped off with a couple beheading tapes all done with government approval. Thank you I can’t wait, it sounds like such a blessed event.

Bravo!

It began with a post by Glenn Reynolds on InstaPundit:
THE ANSWER TO THE EXAMINER’S QUESTION [”And for once wouldn’t it be refreshing to see a college president show some real backbone when faced with unreasonable demands from activis…

Your extended discussion with Krydor is evidence that you have far more patience than I.

When someone pulls out the thread-bare “I-can-make-the-Bible-say-whatever-I-want” proposition and credulously offers it as support for their argument, I have no interest in debate with this person since it’s futile! Krydor’s assertion that Scriptural meaning is maleable offers support neither to his position or any other. It’s ridiculous on it’s face.

The fact that scores of people twist, willfully misrepresent, or misunderstand the Bible’s meaning in no way negates or invalidates the meaning it’s Author actually intended. I can argue that my state traffic law can be interpreted to encourage DUI – nevertheless the state trooper and magistrate are going to hold me to the actual meaning intended by the author and prosecute me for violating it. In short, the myriad human interpretations of Scripture do nothing to change its actual meaning. This should be obvious to anyone, Christian or not.

Thanks for your strong constitution and persistence. Maybe your approach might send a little light in his direction.

“…as for the majority of Protestant pastors, they, like almost everyone else in Germany, submitted in the face of Nazi terror.” “Submit”? Mein Kampf was published in 1925. They had no excuse for not knowing what he was up to. They still supported him. They didn’t get disillusioned by his rants against the Jews, they only got disillusioned when he turned on them.

Keep fighting the good fight, you do well. Bryan, you are right to post on such a topic, maligning Christianity has become rather too common a participation sport in this country founded upon Christian principles and faith.

The term fundamentalist has begun being used in the last 25 years as if interchangeable with extremist, and that is disingenuous at best. A fundamentalist Christian is NOT one who would resort to violence to get his way. Perhaps a poorly taught or misguided believer would, but it would be proper to call them an extremist, not a fundamentalist.

There is nothing among the Christians fundamentals that directs followers to ignore Christ’s words, which includes the Golden Rule, the beatitudes, and a clear restatement of 9 of the 10 commandments. The time of physical struggle in the religious arena was past, the war has since been on the spiritual level.

Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.

Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness; And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked. And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God: Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints

– Ephesians 6:10-18

This is the manner and method of the Christian’s warfare. Not bullets or bombs. Anyone who does not follow this pattern is NOT a fundamentalist Chrisian, but a mistaken extremist.

That’s an interpretation. Don’t forget that the Jews themselves don’t think Jesus is the prophesied Messiah because he didn’t do what what was promised by the Old School Prophets. The reason the meaning was changed has little to do with what Jesus said, but more to what a Gentile who claimed to meet Jesus said.

The problem is not with what the Gentiles believed, but with what the Jews of Jesus’ day believed. The Jews paid attention to the OT passages declaring that the Messiah would come in triumph and put all things right, but they ignored Isaiah 53. They also ignored the Psalmist saying, ‘My bones are out of joint’ and ‘they cast lots for my clothing,’ and ‘cursed is the man who is hung on a tree.’ They also miserably failed to understand the underlying function of their sacrifices, the Passover, and so on and so forth. The problem is not with the Gentiles at all. The Jews thought that the Day of Judgment and the advent of the Messiah were one in the same, based on their reading of the OT, and selective readings of Messianic prophesies.

Regardless, and I say this again, open to interpetation and has been used (in and out of context) for some bad stuff. That people think it can’t or won’t be used again in a similar manner is dreadfully naive.

Krydor on May 15, 2007 at 1:22 PM

People can quote Scripture out of context, but we can easily contextualize it, if we know our Bibles. We can also point to the historic interpretation of passages in question. We still have the writings of Augustine, Ireneus, Origen, Polycarp, Calvin, and Luther. They are largely in agreement over the essentials: the Gospel, justification, etc. Calvin thought the idea of a Christian theocracy to be ridiculous. If you don’t believe me, read through the Institutes (his later writings). Theonomy/Christian reconstructionism has very little traction in the church today.

Do unto others implies no actual expectation of reciprocity.

Buck Turgidson on May 15, 2007 at 12:45 PM

Thanks, Buck, and I agree. The thing is, AP is obviously (*warning: shameless suckup ahead*) a very bright guy and not some hypersensitive atheist extremist, and yet:

“I do … often feel that unless you’re a family values evangelical, you’re a guest in the Republican Party — to be treated with hospitality (since, after all, your vote is needed), to be sure, but there’s no question whose party it is.” (Allahpundit on May 14, 2007 at 2:07 PM)

So, I’m just saying that this must be real. And who would know better how conservatives address the issues of Christianity than AP and Bryan, since about once a day they open the door of the dog cage and throw some red meat in there and stand around watching the carnage…

sharinlite on May 15, 2007 at 2:00 PM

Now you pulled me in
.
Atheists often present the problem of evil to theists as if it is a fatal argument for the existence of God. Nothing could be further from the truth. In reality, it is an absolutely unsolvable problem for the atheist. How does the atheist explain evil-the sense of moral right and wrong-in the absence of a moral Lawgiver? They can’t! If there is no moral Lawgiver, then there is no way to explain the sense of moral wrong and moral right we all possess. C.S. Lewis said that evil is God’s megaphone to a non-believing world. Evil speaks of moral law. Moral law demands a moral Lawgiver, and it is He that we call God!

God Bless You

Too Jewish.

But to be fair, even Phelps isn’t physically harming anyone.

I know, I just picked him because he’s pretty extreme, and everybody knows who he is.

That’s an interpretation. Don’t forget that the Jews themselves don’t think Jesus is the prophesied Messiah because he didn’t do what what was promised by the Old School Prophets. The reason the meaning was changed has little to do with what Jesus said, but more to what a Gentile who claimed to meet Jesus said.

Regardless, and I say this again, open to interpetation and has been used (in and out of context) for some bad stuff. That people think it can’t or won’t be used again in a similar manner is dreadfully naive.

BigOldDog: Which is both a comparison and a prediction.

It is a prediction, but not the one you accused me of making. I didn’t, as you claim, predict that Christianity would become just like Islam. I predicted that some Christian groups would resort to violence. Notice that this doesn’t predict that even these groups would “become just like Islam.” Also notice that it’s not much of a prediction since some groups (that would be the fringe elements of the right to life folks) are already there.

It also isn’t a comparison if by that you mean an equating of the two religions. I didn’t make any general statements about what the majority of Christians would do, only that it was very likely that some Christians would see the success of the Islamists’ strategy and seek to emulate it. You’re free to disagree and obviously do, but as Glenn says, we’ll soon see who is right.

sonnyspats1 on May 15, 2007 at 12:43 PM

That’s what drives me absolutely crazy. Why many on “our side” of the WoT would go out of their way to disparage Christians when they have plenty of examples of large groups on the Left who already embrace similar tactics is beyond me. It’s does not take a giant leap of faith to see them getting more and more violent yet they rather go after fundamentalist Christians who are more likely to embrace the family of the man who murdered their children in a one room school house than they are to use terrorism to achieve political objectives.

For the record, I am merely a bad Catholic so it’s not like I am POd simply because I feel attack – that’s not the case. I am sick of small minded people who try to paint all people of faith as a threat.

Christians should be sensitive to the reality that atheists feel like illegal aliens when in the presence of believers, and that the Bible teaches us that the opposite should be true.

Reach out to Allah and seek forgiveness for all of your (my) previous insults and slights…

Jaibones on May 15, 2007 at 12:03 PM

I agree Jai. Too bad it seems to have little effect on the atheist axe grinding.
Do unto others implies no actual expectation of reciprocity.

Sooner or later, you know, fundamentalist Christians are going to pick up on this lesson, engage in similar behavior, and make similar demands. Because, apparently, it works fine.

Not some. Not a small group or an individual but, fundamentalist Christians

Actually not. Neither Glenn nor I made any such comparison or prediction. We merely observed that if we continue to reward bad behavior on the part of the Islamists, that behavior will be emulated by some Christian groups

Which is both a comparison and a prediction. It says both groups have the capacity and, in the case of fundamental Christians, they will emulate that strategy (your words, not mine).