Majority of Iraqi MPs endorse bill demanding timetable for U.S. withdrawal; Update: Parliament session ends early over quarreling; Update: Bush embraces benchmarks
posted at 10:57 am on May 10, 2007 by Allahpundit
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Blair’s gone, centrist Republicans are in revolt, the Iraqi parliament’s planning to take a little summer vay-cay while U.S. troops are busy dodging IEDs, and now this. It’s a perfect storm. I think it’s safe to say we’re at endgame.
A majority of Iraqi lawmakers have endorsed a bill calling for a timetable for the withdrawal of foreign troops and demanding a freeze on the number of foreign troops already in the country, lawmakers said Thursday…
The Iraqi bill, drafted by a parliamentary bloc loyal to anti-American Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr, was signed by 144 members of the 275-member house, according to Nassar al-Rubaie, the leader of the Sadrist bloc.
The Sadrist bloc, which sees the U.S.-led forces as an occupying army, has pushed similar bills before, but this was the first time it had garnered the support of a majority of lawmakers…
Al-Rubaie said he personally handed the Iraqi bill to speaker Mahmoud al-Mashhadani on Wednesday.
It doesn’t say which parties the 144 come from, but I noted last night that the Sadrists have been cuddling up to the Sunnis lately, presumably to broker exactly this kind of deal. I still don’t understand why the Sunnis would sign off on that unless some companion deal has been struck granting them de facto sovereignty over Anbar and a promise, for what little it’s worth, that the Shiites will keep out. Gates told Congress yesterday that a pullout would see Anbar transformed into an Al Qaeda base, but if this vacation thing goes through, I don’t think the American public’s going to care:
To many U.S. policymakers, the vacation has become a symbol of a lack of will by Iraqis to tackle the country’s deep divisions. An extended break this summer also would have important practical implications: The administration plans an assessment of its “surge” strategy in September and has promised to measure its success based on Iraqi political reforms and reconciliation policies, legislation that cannot be passed if the parliament is not in session.
Gates called the idea “unacceptable,” to which Iraq’s smartass parliamentary speaker, Mahmoud al-Mashhadani, said this:
In a barb at the Bush administration, he said those behind the criticism of Iraq’s parliament would make better use of their time trying to counter criticism by Democratic House Speaker Nancy Pelosi who is leading a campaign against U.S. President George W. Bush’s handling of the war in Iraq.
“You had better try and control Nancy Pelosi rather than Mahmoud al-Mashhadani,” the speaker said.
Captain Ed puts it succinctly:
If the Iraqis walk away from the Assembly without any [reforms] getting accomplished, and then spend two months without making any effort at all, the war effort is over. The surge will be a dead letter in Congress, and almost certainly Republicans will start to consider defunding as an option as well as Democrats. Dick Cheney understands this, which is why he made a surprise visit to Maliki to explain the situation in small words.
Ed also explains, in similar small words, to John Aravosis why the Democrats would be smart not to put up a fuss about war spending at this point and just give Bush the money he needs, a point I made myself on Tuesday. If they cut him a check, it leaves the looming failure in his hands alone, which is what they’ve been after all along.
Update: Very good news on a very bad day — the Patriquin plan is taking root in AQ’s new home base, Diyala province.
Update: Super.
Iraq’s parliament session Thursday ended abruptly amid quarreling in the chamber that reflects the tensions between Sunnis and Shiites and the dissatisfaction among politicians with the Nuri al-Maliki government.
Bickering and chaos erupted after a parliamentary delegation read a graphic report describing and cataloguing the tribulations of displaced Shiite families who fled their homes in Diyala province, north and east of Baghdad, for Karbala — a city in the south considered holy by Shiites.
Parliament speaker Mahmoud al-Mashhadani — a controversial Sunni who is not liked by all for his blunt and undiplomatic personality — asked the delegation to present parliament with its recommendations on the problems the families are facing on Saturday. He said the recommendations would then be forwarded to the government.
But the delegation members interpreted al-Mashhadani’s handling of their concerns and his grinning manner as dismissive and disrespectful, and they didn’t like the way other lawmakers greeted the report.
Update: With the political winds against him, Bush starts to bend.
Update: Reader D.J. Elliott e-mails to point out this excerpt, which suggests passage of the Iraqi bill is no sure thing:
Kurdish lawmaker Mahmoud Othman said he had backed the draft but only on the condition that the withdrawal timetable be linked to a schedule for training and equipping Iraq’s security forces.
“But the sponsors of the legislation did not include our observations in the draft. This is deception,” he said.
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I almost actually feel a little sorry for Bush..you know he must be just shaking his head…these people are absolutely amazing…I can’t imagine our revolutionary leaders taking a two-month break in 1776…and now these guys want us out? Let’s grab a few oil fields for our trouble and get the hell out!
DCJeff on May 10, 2007 at 11:03 AM
I’m sure the democrats will go to great lengths to shoot themselves in the foot repeatedly over this.
Canadian Imperialist Running Dog on May 10, 2007 at 11:07 AM
I hate to say it, but I have finally have come to grips with the fact that we need to get the hell out of Iraq. I hate the idea… but we haven’t had enough commitment here from the get go. We were never really in it to win it… just in it not to lose and keep everyone happy. Maybe when were attacked with a Democratic administration they will untie our hands. In the mean time… Spend all that money on alternative energy sources so we can tell the mideast to go screw themselves.
BadBrad on May 10, 2007 at 11:07 AM
I think this is great. Now it’s not defeat if we are asked to leave by what is being treated as a legitimate govt. Didn’t Bush say we would pack up as soon as we were asked to? Now if only the republicans could look at this as an opportunity and say the Iraqi government has asked to take the reins so here you go. They would assume responsibility for the aftermath and the Dhimmicrats couldn’t come back and say we should have stayed.
We did what we intended to do we eliminated the threat of WMD’s (in Iraq). Mission accomplished.
frreal on May 10, 2007 at 11:10 AM
Congress is as congress does. If we leave and have to come back a 2nd, (3rd?) time, it won’t be as liberators, Haji.
Buck Turgidson on May 10, 2007 at 11:12 AM
I
Roger that.
Fred on May 10, 2007 at 11:16 AM
By the by, if this goes down like this? Invest in “first responder” stocks, cos that shite is going through the roof like bodies being hurled out of shopping malls when bombs go off.
We’re losing the long war.
Fred on May 10, 2007 at 11:17 AM
Hey, this is our exit. If the Iraqi parliament orders us out, that’s the perfect opportunity for Bush to wash his hands of it and say, Hasta la vista… baby.
Then, in a few years, if Iraq does become a hotbed, we fix it the EASY way.
Skywise on May 10, 2007 at 11:18 AM
‘End Game’ for not just the war in Iraq. Well played MSM. Well played indeed.
Limerick on May 10, 2007 at 11:18 AM
Screw ‘em. They want to play it this way, fine.
Next time we go to Iraq, the closest our troops will get to the ground is 3,000 feet. They had their chance.
unamused on May 10, 2007 at 11:19 AM
So the Sadr-ists are proposing the same legislation the Dems are? That’s real nice. God help us.
CP on May 10, 2007 at 11:21 AM
Will any sane country ever trust America again?
This is the legacy the Democrats have left for our future. How will any country that is in trouble be able to look to America for help in the future?
JayHaw Phrenzie on May 10, 2007 at 11:31 AM
I hate to say it, but isolationism is looking pretty good all of a sudden.
Privatestock on May 10, 2007 at 11:34 AM
I am an old man and will not see it in my lifetime but there many of you here who will see the end of the USA as a bastion of freedom. The division in this country can not be repaired.
Wade on May 10, 2007 at 11:34 AM
Disgusting.
EnochCain on May 10, 2007 at 11:35 AM
Sweet. An Iraqi face on there pending doom. “They wanted us to leave.” So be it. The only way to leave Iraq without the resulting upswing in liberal ideology was to put an Iraqi face on Iraq’s problem (they simply are incapable of democracy) or subduing the populace. They are helping us with the former.
Theworldisnotenough on May 10, 2007 at 11:37 AM
*their
Theworldisnotenough on May 10, 2007 at 11:37 AM
Pretty much. Even Sowell mentioned it in a recent column of his.
lorien1973 on May 10, 2007 at 11:38 AM
And just like that, the beginning of the end. The end of American standing, the end of American trustworthiness, the end of big stick diplomacy. When my son has to go back and fix the mess we left, I won’t tell him not to go, but I will warn him that the American culture has reached the point of voting itself bread and circuses, so don’t get your hopes up. THIS is why the founding fathers feared democracy: no staying power whatsoever and small minded people manipulating the system to maintain their own power.
Militant Bibliophile on May 10, 2007 at 11:39 AM
Since the Democrats want to hang this on Bush and all Republicans by association, do we get to say I told you so if Iran turns that country into a it s proxy?
Theworldisnotenough on May 10, 2007 at 11:41 AM
Well, what the hell…Mebbe’, Anarchy isn’t such a bad idea, after all.
f’eh
franksalterego on May 10, 2007 at 11:42 AM
Militant Bibliophile on May 10, 2007 at 11:39 AM
I do not think so. If Iraqis choose this then the consequences are theirs. We could turn this into a “see what happens without America” situation.
Theworldisnotenough on May 10, 2007 at 11:42 AM
That did not work in Viet Nam when millions were slaughtered when the democrats stopped the funding. The democrats have never answered for all the blood on their hands caused by cutting and running.
Wade on May 10, 2007 at 11:44 AM
This is a welcome development.
PRCalDude on May 10, 2007 at 11:46 AM
Yep, I guess it’s time to get our guys back home. My stance has been that we had an obligation to stay until the country stabilized and if these idiots think they can handle what happens when we pull out, let’s do it.
I also agree that we should never again have troops on the ground there. The next time we have to take care of issues there it should be from the air.
Benaiah on May 10, 2007 at 11:47 AM
So should we start the pool? Who will be the lucky HA community member that is in the City of ‘Steel-melted-by-fire’? Yours? Mine? Rangles?……oh that is fear-mongering isn’t it? Fort America is unmeltable after all. ‘CSI’ and ‘The Practice’ will see to it.
Limerick on May 10, 2007 at 11:47 AM
Well Allah, looks like we’re at an end game and echoing what others have said, perhaps it’s time to pick up and they can live with the consequences but we’ll be back and it will be worse. Guess the dims have gotten their message to them loud and clear. Well, they can take responsibility for it too.
I, am also worried about the division in this country. I don’t remember anything like this before but my folks tell me it was pretty bad during Viet Nam. When my half brother died, there was a split in my family as the cousins who had been in or were also going to Nam had a big fight with my two peacenik cousins at his funeral. I don’t remember much, I was only 4 at the time. But the family has never healed and I had the same relatives refusing to come to my wedding because it was at a military base and I married a Solider. This is one family but I see the same thing happening in our country. Maybe it was this bad during the Civil War but as some would perhaps say the South was brought back into the Union and they had to reform. Are we going to split Blue State/Red State?
Wish we got Sowell in our paper, have to look those columns up.
Catie96706 on May 10, 2007 at 11:48 AM
Time to go. We fought the good fight, but the Iraqi’s did not have the guts in large enough numbers to take hold of the opportunity. I could use a two-month vacation.
On another note, I actually pity reportes who stay behind after US forces leave, because no one is going to protect them in Iraq after our soldiers exit.
doufree on May 10, 2007 at 11:50 AM
I dunno, Limerick. I live in an obvious target city because of the Port of Los Angeles. But the low population density and topography of the city lead me to believe that they might strike somewhere else. It’s an inevitability either way. As long as we keep giving Muslims our money, they’ll use it for jihad.
PRCalDude on May 10, 2007 at 11:50 AM
It is time for Bush to get some balls and get back to straight talk. He should tell the government in Iraq “time to shit or get off the pot”. He needs to lead by taking the reins and make it his decision to leave or stay based on what the Iraqis do in 30 days. He has the power, now he needs to use it, but I am afraid that will not happen.
Wade on May 10, 2007 at 11:51 AM
That’s the problem with this president, Wade. He has the resolve of George B. McClellan, and all the other Army of the Potomac generals until Grant. He hasn’t tried actually being tough with the enemy. He had 5 years to do so. As Patton said, “Americans hate a loser.”
PRCalDude on May 10, 2007 at 11:53 AM
Dr Sowell Here
Wade on May 10, 2007 at 11:55 AM
That is the truth
Wade on May 10, 2007 at 11:57 AM
And, if I might add ….
Discontinue ALL funding to foreign nations, close ALL embassies, close ALL military bases overseas (the B2 Stealth Bomber can reach any hotspot in the world from their bases in Kansas), demolish the UN building and send the occupants home with a complimentary one-way ticket, ban imports from China, start drilling in ANWR and the Gulf of Mexiao, send the illegals home, put our troops on the border, build a fence – north and south, appropriate 50 billion in new spending for the U.S. coast guard, specifically profile the bad guys at every US entry point, screen all muslims for valid passports and throw in a polygraph test, post a big sign every 100 yds along the coast and at every land entry point that says “DON’T TREAD ON ME” and initiate the Patton Doctrine – “One Good Nuke Deserves Another”.
Do we need them, or do they need us? Let’s run the litmus test. I’d be willing to sacrifice much, just to stick it to those in the world community who not only fail to appreciate what we contribute and sacrifice, but imply that we are the bad guys on this planet.
fogw on May 10, 2007 at 11:59 AM
Thanks Wade & gotta agree with you & PRCalDude 1000%!
Catie
Catie96706 on May 10, 2007 at 12:00 PM
I can’t aim a tank cannon at Pelosi’s house – your’s, well, that’s different. How would you like a few midnight raids by a few hundred heavily armed US soldiers, tearing your walls apart, ripping your floors up, and staying a few hours?
Then you know what, screw them all. Time to get out of Iraq. We’ve given them a chance at democracy many countries around the world would give anything – including their own blood – for. While our men are getting blown up, their smart-assing us on the floor of the Parliament. I don’t want another soldier dying to protect that ass.
I agree. Grab a few oil fields, throw in the towel, and leave. After we leave, and it becomes an al Qaeda working ground, bomb the living hell out of every infrastructure that houses al Qaeda anything.
On the contrary. We take out all necessary targets from the air. The forces we have can be used to fight the war on terror elsewhere, where we don’t need to set up a government afterwords.
The Iraqis had the “Nice guy” option, which they abused. While our guys were dying to install a democracy, they were wheeling and dealing with terrorists. They had the option of the ground forces, with raids on certain houses, patrolling the streets, etc. Next time we have to go back, we go back with bombs.
amerpundit on May 10, 2007 at 12:00 PM
Actually, this might be better. It gives us a chance to get out, by being thrown out, and not surrendering. We weren’t thrown out of Vietnam, we quit.
amerpundit on May 10, 2007 at 12:01 PM
The Iraqi bill, drafted by a parliamentary bloc loyal to anti-American Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr, was signed by 144 members of the 275-member house, according to Nassar al-Rubaie, the leader of the Sadrist bloc…
…131 Death Warrants to follow.
franksalterego on May 10, 2007 at 12:03 PM
Can we pretty please cease foreign visas, secure our borders and arm ourselves to the teeth NOW??
Tru2my2 on May 10, 2007 at 12:04 PM
Here’s why the Vietnam analogy doesn’t hold water: the sunnis and shia have been killing each other for ~1300 years. We’ve had a brief reprieve from that, and now they’re going to do it again. We’re not morally responsible for preventing two natural enemies from killing one another, and neither are we making them do it. This is good news for the infidel.
PRCalDude on May 10, 2007 at 12:06 PM
I see this as a good thing… well, a better thing than the other thing. It solves all of the political problems except the big one, which did not appear to be on the way to being solved anyway. We all knew that the war funding would end this year anyway… this move by Iraq lets the White House and congressional Republicans wash their hands of it without necessarily turning their back on the war effort.
The White House promised that we would leave when the Iraqis no longer wanted us there. This entire rebuilding fiasco has been predicated on the notion that Iraqis want American troops there and want [insert Western idea]. If we get voted off the island, we will just be responding to their desires and the consequences will be of their own making.
If the foreign aspect of this war is going to be the same in January 2008 either way, this seems like the golden opportunity to salvage the domestic aspect.
Lehosh on May 10, 2007 at 12:07 PM
Don’t be too happy, Lehosh. This president can snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. His hubris will convince him that he needs to stay, as he’s stated numerous times that it is up to a future president to decide when to pull out.
PRCalDude on May 10, 2007 at 12:10 PM
Congress already has a reply. The House is expected to pass yet another bill with a timetable in it. The dont care if it gets vetoed again.
The democrats have convinced the American people this is the way to go. Sometimes you have to give them what they want even if only pure evil will come out of it.
Again Iraq is not the entire WOT. We have to win that war even if it means losing one battle.
William Amos on May 10, 2007 at 12:12 PM
what happens to oil prices when we get out and Iran/Syria take over, then the preceding war with Saudi Arabia vs. Iran takes place?
$10 a gallon may sound reasonable.
jp on May 10, 2007 at 12:13 PM
Who will apologize to the families who lost their loved ones in Iraq? Their suffering will go on, only exacerbated by leaving the job undone and knowing the sacrifices were for naught.
fogw on May 10, 2007 at 12:16 PM
I will say one thing if we leave Iraq and the Islamics there start mass murdering people I better not hear ONE leftie utter any nonsense about “Darfar” or “Tibet”
Your hollow worthless words of want to end genocide will ring so false then.
William Amos on May 10, 2007 at 12:18 PM
Well we have said all along that we were there at the invitation of the Iraqi goverment and if that goverment wnats us to leave we really have no choice. I however don’t want to leave one usable piece of equipment in the country. If we can’t take it with us it needs to be blown in place. Iraq we in the US have an expression. “You made your bed now lay in it”.
LakeRuins on May 10, 2007 at 12:22 PM
If these clowns actually take their summer break, this statement will serve as the Maliki government’s epitaph. The profound ignorance of the true political reality in the USA (and the consequences for Iraq) displayed by these words is staggering.
docob on May 10, 2007 at 12:22 PM
Revolting maybe… but that’s nothing new. They just want to protect their jobs above all else. The GOP has more free thinkers I guess, the Dems seem to go along with their own leadership all the time. A happy medium would be nice, third party anyone?
reaganaut on May 10, 2007 at 12:25 PM
Amen to that. But hey, why go back? Pave the damn country now on the way out. I’ve had it with those people. It was never about giving them “democracy” as a primary objective for me, anyway. Just because they want freedom doesn’t mean they’re our friends. (Same with Iran–to hell with them. Pave it.) It has always been for me about killing bad guys (Saddam and sons first, as well as their Nazi-Baathist cohorts, but also those Shiite savages). Democracy was just a nice side-effect of the flypaper (Al Qaeda) and overthrow strategery. Apparently democracy and peace doesn’t mean shiite to most of those people, because if it did, they’d step up and take control of the situation instead of bloviating about how they’re “in charge” (my @ss they are).
bamapachyderm on May 10, 2007 at 12:27 PM
My sentiments exactly. Put our money into securing our borders, keep a battle group in the persian gulf, and if the terrorists twitch, NUKE em!
csdeven on May 10, 2007 at 12:30 PM
Some good suggestions. Personally I’d like to see the Senate abolished. I’m certain we could manage just fine with the House of Rep’s. I mean it is more representative of the states. The turnover is higher, and legislation would pass at least twice as fast… Of course, the first rule would be no former senator could ever run for the House.
I actually hope we never leave Iraq, we really need maintain a base somewhere in that country. Even if we aren’t out actively patrolling, we still need some large-scale presence in the country.
reaganaut on May 10, 2007 at 12:31 PM
The good news is that the lefts entire argument is built around a great lie. That Islamics will never again target the US. I have little faith in that.
The bad news is that it will cost american lives to make people see the democrats and the leftists for the liars they are.
William Amos on May 10, 2007 at 12:31 PM
The good news is that the lefts entire argument is built around a great lie. That Islamics will never again target the US. I have little faith in that.
The bad news is that it will cost american lives to make people see the democrats and the leftists for the liars they are.
William Amos on May 10, 2007 at 12:31 PM
Excellent point, but I wonder if those who survive would even care. They certainly don’t seem to value life and liberty like you’d think they would. (Yes, I’ve lost faith in the Iraqi people, can you tell? Their Parliament sure hasn’t helped, either.)
My biggest concern about bailing out is that whole “paper tiger” thing encouraging more fun and games from Al Qaeda. If we do leave, it would be nice to leave a mark on the way out (but no, that won’t happen).
bamapachyderm on May 10, 2007 at 12:32 PM
I hope you’re not holding up Iraq as a model of a “sane country.” I’ve supported the war effort since day one and it pains me to say it, but the Iraqi people are just not worth it. Not worth our effort and certainly not worth our blood. They had their shot and they blew it, and that should in no way affect what “sane countries” think of us in the future.
World B. Free on May 10, 2007 at 12:33 PM
For people who complain about others not having resolve, you sure are quick to hop on the “it’s all over bandwagon”. I’ve been hearing the “we only have six months left” stories since we went into Iraq, usually from the retired Generals who are no longer popular fixtures on cable news channels. Could it be right this time? Maybe, but i doubt it.
forged rite on May 10, 2007 at 12:35 PM
When the Israeli bodies start piling up you America Firsters be sure to pat yourselves on the back. I for one want no part of it, nor will I applaude anyone for wanting to stay at home to teach the world a lesson. Never again my ass. When they are done in Jerusalem they will start in New York. Yeah let’s fort-up. Let’s NUKE EM’!…..And just where does this magic leader reside that is actually going to do that? Where is the political will in either party now for such a solution? ‘We will kick their fanny’….yeah….right….show me exactly who the hell is going to have the power to do that.
Limerick on May 10, 2007 at 12:35 PM
pipe dreams, my friend. pipe dreams.
On a different, but related note, my relative in the 4th ID, came back from Iraq last fall. I asked him recently when he’s going back, he said maybe not until 2008-09, and probably to AFGHANISTAN, not Iraq. The army probably sees the writing on the wall, as well. Anyway, that’s just a rumor.
pullingmyhairout on May 10, 2007 at 12:35 PM
3 State solution:
Salafistan
Wahabbistan
Kurdistan
All coalition forces head on over to Kurdistan. I don’t know how many more times the Kurds are going to put up with being hung out to dry by the west, but they are the only sensible ones in that region.
Krydor on May 10, 2007 at 12:37 PM
not Iraq, the rest of the world and any future engagements. Which with the population boom and mickey mouse jihad brainwashing there will be a need for more in the near future. Why would anyone trust us after this mess when we try to get a future coalition together?
It would go something like, well once they start their bomb a day for western media headlines strategy you are just going to cut and run and not finish the job….
its a point Mark Steyn has tried to make multiple times.
there is no easy exit with this, the Dems know it and are absolutely dispicable for politicizing this threat.
jp on May 10, 2007 at 12:38 PM
I already am.
csdeven on May 10, 2007 at 12:38 PM
That’s a good point – if we leave now this will be the last time it happens, because there won’t be any Kurds left.
reaganaut on May 10, 2007 at 12:40 PM
I can point you to 35,000 names who’s orders are for 15 months starting August and it isn’t Afghanistan.
Limerick on May 10, 2007 at 12:40 PM
I suggest buying Gold, silver and guns, get out of the cities and somewhere you can farm your own food.
jp on May 10, 2007 at 12:41 PM
4th ID?
pullingmyhairout on May 10, 2007 at 12:42 PM
That is where we come in. Our undying appreciation and respect for their loved ones will always be honored.
csdeven on May 10, 2007 at 12:43 PM
Here is the Pentagon’s list…..
yes it includes elements of 4ID
The 10 brigades are: the 2nd Stryker Cavalry Regiment in Germany; the 4th Brigade, 3rd Infantry Division from Fort Stewart, Ga.; the 1st, 2nd and 3rd Brigades of the 101st Airborne Division from Fort Campbell, Ky.; the 3rd Armored Calvary Regiment from Fort Hood, Texas; the 2nd Brigade, 1st Armored from Germany; 4th Brigade, 10th Mountain Division from Fort Polk, La.; 2nd Brigade, 25th Infantry Division from Hawaii; and the 1st Brigade, 4th Infantry Division from Fort Hood, Tx
Limerick on May 10, 2007 at 12:44 PM
didn’t some of the 4th infantry moved to Ft. Carson? He was at Ft. Hood up until a few months ago.
pullingmyhairout on May 10, 2007 at 12:48 PM
Yes…..the 3rd Armored Cav and the 4th ID switched posts in part of the reorgnization plan of 06 but the complete move is not finished.
Limerick on May 10, 2007 at 12:50 PM
That’s not his brigade.
OK, back on topic…
I’m not sure what the solution is – I DO know that if they don’t want us there, we shouldn’t be there. Let them all kill each other for all I care. There’s no use in trying to establish a democracy in a country where the citizens continue to blow each other (and us) up.
pullingmyhairout on May 10, 2007 at 12:52 PM
I don’t think some of you get the sequence of events.
The Congress of the US votes to leave. MSM toutes polls saying the American people have given up. MSM keeps saying there will be a Democrat in the Whitehouse.
Iraqis who would like to support us seeing us surrendering, and are now making the best deals they can to survive.
Face it, Oil is up. Nigeria just elected a Moslem. Chavez is playing solcialist with AMERICAN oil companies, and we are not doing anything. Hamas sucessfully got the UN to give them a win in the last war with Israel, and the UN is now letting them rearm and rebuild. UN is NOT doing anything to Iran for building nukes. Iran is funding and arming Jihadists, and we are not even willing to call them on it.
They see America as weak… and its acting like it is. In their world view America is being humiliated and brought low by Allah.
Romeo13 on May 10, 2007 at 12:53 PM
Ft carson is the where the 4th ID Striker brigades are posted, right? And he’s right about the 101st. That where my kid is and he leaves in August.
After my initial knee-jerk reaction I have a few more knee-jerk comments before I calm down and get rational……
1) This is just a proposal and still has to go through legal and then debated by the MP’s.
2) Mookie should have been killed years ago.
3) A freeze on troops? BS! If we are going, everyone goes now.
4) No more money to the Iraqi government.
5) We leave nothing behind. Scorched earth so to speak, without the fire.
6) We load up a billion or so gallons of oil, refine it and give it away to the american public.
7) We establish a monument to Iraqi war troops.
8) Any terrorist activity is dealt with immediately and without asking permission of the Iraqi government.
csdeven on May 10, 2007 at 1:01 PM
Or at least just position yourself so you’ll go quickly.
PRCalDude on May 10, 2007 at 1:05 PM
What job’s been undone? We weren’t going to end the War on Terror in Iraq. We completed all of our original objectives. Saddam has been removed from power and a new regime has been placed. Democracy gives people what they want. If the Iraqi people want to live under jihadists they have used democracy. If the Iraqi parliament asks us to leave through a vote, they used democracy.
Just because we
believeknow that what they are about to do is idiotic, doesn’t give us the right at this moment to continue fighting. You go to war with the public you have. Right now we don’t have the public to fight, and we have to deal with this fact.Keljeck on May 10, 2007 at 1:07 PM
Again the greater threat isnt to Iraq its to the US.
Imagine if Hillary or Obama wins in 2008. Thats 4 years that the Commander in Cheif would be one of these two nitwits. This during a time the Jihadist are riding high.
While I absolutely HATE having to leave Iraq we have a bigger problem here at home. The democrats fully want to make 2008 about Bush and Iraq. We have to remove that issue as much as possible.
Because 4 years of a disasterous democratic party control of the White House is a greater threat to the US right now than Jihadists in Iraq.
William Amos on May 10, 2007 at 1:12 PM
I just want it made perfectly clear that this was not a failure of military, but rather the politicans of everywhere and every stripe who did not have the courage, the will, foresight or determination to face what will become the plaque of the 21st century. You want population control you are going to get it jihadi style.
Me and the wife we are looking at Australia if it just wasn’t for the fact that all of the critters they got whether on land, sea, or air either want to kill or eat you.
LakeRuins on May 10, 2007 at 1:17 PM
Over half of them signed? Screw em. Why the hell we are still there is beyond me. It sure as hell isn’t about getting their oil because I’m paying $3.75 a gallon where I’m at and if we had a flood of Iraqi oil rolling in, I don’t think we’d be edging on 4 bucks a gallon.
Here’s a thought, how about we leave NOW, today! Let’s
slap em across the face with the bottom of a shoekiss those mud hut dwelling barbarians on both cheeks and say, “Have a nice life!” It’s not about “surrender”, nor is it about “giving up on the Iraqi’s”. There are no “lives wasted” and no regrets. We gave it our best shot, but some peoples just aren’t cut out for freedom and democracy. They gave up on themselves eons ago and they’ve not lifted a finger to help themselves yesterday or today. They’re corrupt, tribal, and will never ever know peace for all of eternity. As a whole, it’s just not in their blood to be civilized, peaceful, and free. None in the Middle East have it in their blood. The individuals who do immigarte to America or any number of other western countries so they can be free. I think they’ve made it very loud and very clear what they want for long enough. You can lead a camel to water, but you can’t make him drink.Our troops, our American men and women, deserve way better, and they deserve to be at home, now. Those ungrateful Iraqi slobs can have what they desire, the same thing they’ve always had through the ages… internal strife, tribal wars, no peace, genocide, everything opposite of peace. Dear Lord, as much as it pains me to say it, I have to admit, I was for the war, (before the people’s majority who wanted us there the most turned their backs on us and never actually lifted a finger to help themselves from the get-go) before I was against it.
I feel bad for the women and children, and the men who fervently desire freedom and democracy. But, on the same token they’ve done NOTHING for themselves. Nothing, zero, zip, nada! So that’s all they’ll get from me from now on, sympathy, and nothing, zero, zip, nada more. And that’s more than I reckon they deserve at this point.
Iraq is now officially a lost cause to me, I’ve had my fill. From this day forward, we need to get out of the entire Middle East and let it implode on itself. Let them reap what they sow. We can try to help lessen the pain and suffering with humanitarian aid as much as we can, or would even be permitted to, and it would cost a helluva lot less than even one more American life in the cause of a country that is, and in hindisght always has been, a lost cause.
SilverStar830 on May 10, 2007 at 1:18 PM
I don’t know what your profession is, but if it’s not PR, run, don’t walk to get yourself into this, you are a natural-born spinner!!! Bravo!!! “Mission Accomplished–This Time We’re Serious”
If this is true, it will be entertaining to watch the pro-war crowd try to make this look like 1) a victory or 2) all the fault of the Democrats.
Well entertaining except for the families of those who lost their sons and daughters, but what the hell? No harm no foul to most people. And I bet Wolfowitz and Rummy et al sleep like babies at night.
honora on May 10, 2007 at 1:20 PM
Ohhh pass me the duct tape. Let me get this straight. Because a lot of the comments on here are now saying fine let’s get out of there, (that would be the pro war crowd), and in effect agreeing with the Dems it is now the Repubs fault we are wanting to leave and not the party who campaigned on getting out of Iraq, who in their first debate of presidential candidates tried to one up each other on how fast they would get out of Iraq culminating now with Hillary asking for a do over, and somehow we would “blame” the Dems???? The Dems are getting what they want!
LakeRuins on May 10, 2007 at 1:26 PM
Yes Honor we lost in Iraq because of the Democrats.
Truth hurts dont it ?
William Amos on May 10, 2007 at 1:30 PM
Why would this be viewed as a betrayal? I take the opposite view. We stood by the Iraqi government’s side until the bitter end. Now, they have politely asked us to vacate their country. We should oblidge them.
It’s time to come home.
BacaDog on May 10, 2007 at 1:34 PM
There’s no shame in making an effort and failing honora… the liberals have been doing it for many many years before they finally got a break.
SilverStar830 on May 10, 2007 at 1:39 PM
It was a mistake not to have taken out Sadr years ago. That mistake is coming back to haunt us.
Phil Byler on May 10, 2007 at 1:45 PM
This underestimates the true malice in a good number of Dems – particularly leading Dems.
They want to do damage. To the war making capacity of the country. There are Yippies wearing suits among this bunch STILL imagining no countries.
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
There are creeps in that in power in that party who would leave our troops there without bullets if they could figure a way not to get caught. And they would not (privately) shed one tear for one troop if an entire Division were nuked into vapor right now.
You weren’t there when these mindsets were formed in the Sixties and Seventies AP. I was there. I still know a lot of folks from those days who have acquired pretty patinas over their hate of this country’s military. But the structure is unchanged.
Stephen M on May 10, 2007 at 1:49 PM
Wait, so now we’ve lost? WTF is wrong with some of you? We haven’t lost jack. So friggin what if the Sadr loyalists and their friends signed something saying they want a timetable. OK, here’s your timetable. We’ll leave when we are damn well ready, and when you can control your constituents. Let this play out before the gloom and doom starts, please.
SouthernDem on May 10, 2007 at 1:51 PM
“the end of the USA as a bastion of freedom”
I refuse to accept that. It isn’t a reality. It is the ‘Ghost of Independence day future’, and these ’shadows’ are not fate! The USA is not dead while the legend of this nation is told and retold. Freedom is not dead while the dream is alive. Our Founding Fathers are as alive today as ever, because thier ethics are honest, and eternal.
Let Freedom Ring! Make FREEDOM RING!
This country survived a civil war and came out even better. If necessary it can happen again. If you ever believed in the country, you have to believe that we can overcome, one more time! Iraq may fail, the Left may win the Whitehouse, and pass ugly laws to stifle our speech by enforcing a false doctrine of ‘fairness’, but the people ARE more resilient. The US Constitution is simple, clean, and easily restored as long as the people believe.
Once it was the fledgling USA, against the world. A world of Kings, and Tsars, and Emporers, and Caliphes with armies and empires, and fleets of ships all dwarfing the power of our ‘government’ resources. WE THE PEOPLE prevailed! We have been at the forefront of modern civilzation for the length of our nations history, and there is no reason this should not continue!
If the Iraqi’s say we should leave, then they have sealed thier own fate. I can’t argue there.
However, if we surrender our OWN FREE COUNTRY, then we have squandered the gift given to us! A gift given by those who suffered at Valley Forge, those who died for the Dream, in every battle, and war! A gift from those we elected, those burdened with the task of ordering action in defense of what we are, and what we aspire to!
Yes, the guys who stayed home also guareded our liberty. Do you suppose Jefferson had no care for the men he ordered into action against the Barbary Pirates? Or that Lincoln had no concern for the people who lost thier limbs, thier minds, and thier lives fighting to end slavery, and preserve the Union? Those who paint our history in colors of evil have my utmost contempt!
No offense those who feel we are doomed to decline, but I’m voting with my feet, and I’m marching forward! I do not have it on my ‘to-do’ list, to sit and watch the nation fall from it’s special place in history, or see it’s glory fade! I am only one guy, but I know in my heart I am not alone, and that eventually all those marching feet will come together and be heard as the Earth shakes!
I’ll go one further! If we are doomed, I’d rather that history remembers that we went down in a blaze of glory, than in a weak fluttering sigh, or some rattling cough! I’d like to know that future historians will marvel at the legend of the American Dream, and the way it shaped the world! Don’t you?
I’d like to know that every totalitarian, party chairman, fascist, or caliph, trembles in his bed at night because there was once a Land Of The Free, and people still remember it! That it WILL happen again, because the Dream is eternal, and cannot be killed just by killing those who first breathed life into that Dream, or those who carry that dream to other dreamers!
Dreams DO come true. Government of, for, and by the People! Yeah, I think some guys probably told our Founding Fathers that they were only dreaming too! I tell you what, I’ll take the Dream over any reality imposed by thugs, and defeatists any day!
Since I won’t be accepting defeat for the USA, I expect to see the dictators of the world losing sleep from here on out! As big a disaster as being pulled out of Iraq will be, it is no more a knife through our heart than was the shelling of fort Sumter! A wound,YES! But also, like Sumter, a call for patriots to rise to the challenge!
There are a lot of things to do, so vote with your feet! March! Move your lips! Type faster! Defend the Dream! Preserve the USA as a “bastion of freedom”! Future generations yet unborn, will thank you!
Thank you for letting me ‘vent’.
USA, all the way!
ValhallaMike on May 10, 2007 at 1:57 PM
It isn’t only this action by the Iraqi parliament, look at all of the doomed from day one bills the Dems are putting through here. They avoid actually defunding the war by passing one piece of BS legislation after another which is doing the same thing. So they didn’t defund it but they sure are making sure it won’t be funded either.
There is a part of me that doesn’t blame the Iraqis, they would rather the Americans on their conditions then to sit around and wait for the inevitable sudden withdrawal leaving them completely flatfooted.
LakeRuins on May 10, 2007 at 1:57 PM
We haven’t lost anything, honora and everyone. It’s not a matter of losing. It’s a matter of being thrown out of the country, and no longer being welcome. It’s a matter of our soldiers dying, while the Iraqi government lays on the beach. It’s a matter of our troops dodging IEDs, while the government officials are wheeling and dealing with the terrorists we’re there to fight.
Vietnam? No. We surrendered in Vietnam. We chose to leave there. Were the Democrats right about Iraq? No. They didn’t want to leave because the Iraqis wanted to. They wanted to cut funds to our troops who are there fighting, and to just walk away, without being asked to. They wanted surrender.
amerpundit on May 10, 2007 at 2:00 PM
On Iraq … they haven’t voted yet, and our troops aren’t funded yet! It’s all still in the air, so stop sounding the retreat! We are still ‘in the tenches’ and our people are still fighting. Cheer for thier victory!
USA, all the way!
ValhallaMike on May 10, 2007 at 2:03 PM
Here’s a bit of truth for you: making mistakes is fine. Refusing to acknowledge is not fine. Trying to misdirect blame for those mistakes onto others is morally reprehensible and cowardly.
honora on May 10, 2007 at 2:04 PM
Oh I see Honora. Sooo you want us out of Iraq.. buuuut you only want us out if we are running with our tails between our legs. That’s the real truth isn’t Honora. If you want to play that “what did they die for card” feel free because the American public knows EXACTLY how the left feels about our military. It’s not about the troops. It never has been it’s about political power and the Dems using poll generated psuedo concerns for troops that they couldn’t give a rip about alive or dead. Pathetic.
frreal on May 10, 2007 at 2:06 PM
If you read what I wrote, my reference to “lost” was to the fallen troops. So saying we haven’t lost anything and referencing my comment, well I assume that’s not what you meant.
honora on May 10, 2007 at 2:06 PM
No way. We’ve NOT lost. If they ask us, officially to leave, then we leave. We respect their sovereignty if we recognize their government.
Of course we just spin out to “holding” bases and maintain a presence… Murtha’s happy, the Iraqis are happy, we’re happy, Bush saves face and can ramp this up as part of a recovery measure for the GOP.
Does it solve the problem? No. But it becomes the Iraqi’s problem and they want it. Give it to them.
Skywise on May 10, 2007 at 2:06 PM
Straight from the horses mouth…
Who voted for the Iraq war, then said they were against it and have voted to defund it honorah?
Again, as previously mentioned, the truth hurts doesn’t it?
SilverStar830 on May 10, 2007 at 2:08 PM
Ohhh but the Dem’s won’t be happy unless we admit defeat.
frreal on May 10, 2007 at 2:09 PM
Honora, I wasn’t addressing you as if you said we lost. Your’s was the last comment I read before posting my comment, so your name was specifically mentioned. Sorry.
amerpundit on May 10, 2007 at 2:10 PM
First, I am not sure I want us out of Iraq, at least not completely. Try reading what is actually written.
Second, my main reaction to this is disgust: how could we have gotten ourselves into this mess, do we have no forethought at all, no ability to think things through. Fire, ready, aim.
honora on May 10, 2007 at 2:10 PM
Ahh, but that’s the beauty of it. They can’t say we bugged out. If they do, they’re absolutely against the military and will get burned that way. Not to mention that we’ll have accomplished the Democrat’s own “Murtha plan”.
Oh sure, they’ll try. But they’ll have no where to run.
Skywise on May 10, 2007 at 2:13 PM
Right. Because the wise thing to do after you make a mistake is to cling to it like grim death. As you can see unfolding right in front of your eyes, staying the course only works if the course is the right course.
You know what hurts? Knowing we lost troops because Bush et al were too arrogant to admit they had badly misread and misplayed this.
Sad, sad, sad.
honora on May 10, 2007 at 2:14 PM
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