honora on May 10, 2007 at 12:15 PM

Thank you. I take pride in my work.

What do you think they’re doing for the Catholic politicians who are manifestly in error over abortion?

You’re referring to intent. Intent is irrelevant to my point, which is that this will only fuel anti-Catholicism. It’s already started. Did you see that “column” about how the SCOTUS voted the way they did on the partial birth abortion law because the Pope told them to?

Intent isn’t relevant. Effect is the only thing that’s relevant.

Sydney, I’ve been more than cordial with you. I gave a clear argument that didn’t explore name-calling. Gloves off.

You are an itellectually dishonest harping wingbat. You support capitol punishment; great. But when it comes to the Church, there is a huge difference between “supporting” capitol punishment and tolerating it “if this is the only possible way of effectively defending human lives against the unjust aggressor.” It is not the only possible way. Option #2 is life in prison.

This is an itellectual argument so it may be over your head.

Lastly, you can take your bile, revenge, and hatred; wad it up in a tight little ball; and shove it up your a$$.

natesnake on May 10, 2007 at 8:36 AM

natesnake: It’s a far, far better thing you do than you have ever done.

Sorry, couldn’t help myself.

Alden Pyle on May 10, 2007 at 6:24 AM

My pleasure. Army is a career. Marine is a state of mind.

You are an itellectually dishonest harping wingbat. You support capitol punishment; great. But when it comes to the Church, there is a huge difference between “supporting” capitol punishment and tolerating it “if this is the only possible way of effectively defending human lives against the unjust aggressor.” It is not the only possible way. Option #2 is life in prison.

This is an itellectual argument so it may be over your head.

Lastly, you can take your bile, revenge, and hatred; wad it up in a tight little ball; and shove it up your a$$.

Right because we all know Jesus only accepted the perfect, 100% followers, who had never committed sins, or disobeyed the church – oh, wait. He accepted tramps, prostitutes, etc.

They repented.

Does the Pope have a right to dictate my religion to me? Yep. My politics? No. Great thing about America – separation between church and state. You know who else thinks their religious leaders have the right to dictate to their politicians, and interfere with politics? Muslims. You’d all be fine with an Imam dictating what one of our politicians does and believes, right?

Don’t be ridiculous. The Pope has no political authority. The separation between Church and State? What insitution of the US government (or any other government) is the Pope currently in charge of? Gee, maybe we small government types should votes for an administration that will cut off federal funding to the Vatican. It’s bad enough that the Democrats increase spending on welfare but that recent $18 million subsidy to the Catholic Church really crosses the line.

Wake up amerpundit. The Pope exercises a moral authority. He inspires and enrages millions of people because of it. You haven’t the slightest obligation to pay attention to anything he says. If you and I are allowed to give our opinions on politics then why isn’t he?

This is a political statement. He didn’t say: “To all Catholics, if you want to be pro-choice, then you can’t stay in the church.” He went for, and addressed politicians.

He didn’t go for and address politicians. He was asked a question and answered truthfully. Let me refresh your memory:

The Pope was asked whether he supported Mexican Church leaders threatening to excommunicate leftist parliamentarians who last month voted to legalize abortion in Mexico City. “Yes, this excommunication was not an arbitrary one but is allowed by Canon (church) law which says that the killing of an innocent child is incompatible with receiving communion, which is receiving the body of Christ,” he said.

The Pope isn’t Bill Clinton. He can’t, and would not and should not, weasel his way out of simple questions. The fact that the Pope is Catholic seems to be very surprising to you. A Pope who upholds Catholic doctrine? Say it isn’t so!

I don’t know how all that squares with his “flock”, made up more and more of illegal mexican immigrants, most of whom have very strong family values. Mahoney doesn’t care, as long as they can keep coming, his coffers can keep getting more and more full.

“The Catholic church does not support Capitol Punishment. “

That is a flat-out, 100% pure lie. You are lying. Stop. I just quoted a section of the Catechism of the Catholic Church which says the traditional teaching of the Church does not exclude recourse to the death penalty.

Your persistant defiance of this teaching is just as bad as those Catholic politicians who persist in supporting abortion. It’s one thing to think that most, if not all, criminals should avoid execution. But you are LYING ABOUT THE CHURCH’S TEACHING ON THE DEATH PENALTY.

This week the head of the Los Angeles Archdiocese, Cardinal Roger Mahoney, basically threatened his faithful with denial of heaven if they don’t support amnesty for illegal aliens….

Guess he forgot about that little something in the bible about honoring your government and following their dictates. Just a little oversight, a few words in the bible that can be ignored…no big deal, the Cardinal can choose what part of the bible to adhere to, he is a Cardinal…not some ordinary man, he is special, he can ignore God’s words.

…the will of the masses is divided by far-reaching distortions and the mass mind is corrupted by a knowledge worse than ignorance because it is false.
Ely Culbertson

. . .the “anti-war” crowd (and I’m afraid this Pope may be with them regarding the war)

Halley

Here’s a little exercise for all those who thing that JPII or BXVI were against us overthrowing Saddam Hussein: Show me a quote from either of them. JPII did say that when man resorted to war all mankind loses but he also acknowledged the unfortunate necessity of war at times. He never, to my knowledge, specifically criticized Bush or the US and actually removed any Vatican spokesman who did.

To further your earlier point, remember also that John Paul II was the son of a career military officer.

. . .if you don’t follow it now, you’re outa here.

ameripundit,

Ole Rudy has had a public life for decades and has persistently been pro-abortion. This is not new as you seem to imply.

I think Rudy’s learning to follow the ways of the church, as he’s moved towards being more pro-life. I just don’t think he’s opposed to the teachings, but he’s moving towards them. He’s learning.

amerpundit

As you said, the Pope was not addressing any particular politician much less Rudy. However, Rudy is still unapologetically pro-abortion. He may be trying to hone a more palatable message than his “Get over it” line. But he is still for unlimited abortion (including partial birth abortion).

Here’s a twist: Almost every Catholic GOP politician could be excommunicated for support of Capitol Punishment.

natesnake

Not true. The Catholic Church’s teaching on capital punishment is that it is morally licit but should be used sparingly. Pope John Paul II was notably against the death penalty in societies that had the ability to remove dangerous people by imprisonment. He, however, was always clear that this was his personal opinion and it did not constitute a teaching of the Church. You can disagree with the Pope on this issue and still be in union with the Church.

The Catholic church does not support Capitol Punishment. I remember this being a sticking point with John Paul II. The Church supports “preservation of all life” which includes opposition to abortion, the death penalty, and euthenasia.

I’m not here to change your mind, just to give some statistics. I’m Catholic and try my best (and it’s a bitch sometimes) to faithfully follow all the cannons of the Church.

Bottom line, we have millions of people in prison. We only execute hundreds (114 in 2006) of them a year.

That seems “very rare” to me. I don’t understand your objection at all, at least from a Catholic standpoint. Justice sometimes requires the death penalty.

No. Unless you see no problem being locked up with a serial killer. Go ahead. You can be his roommate.

If memory serves correct, the most heinous offenders have their own cells. Tim McVeigh had his own cell just a few doors down from the Unibomber.

Bottom line, we have millions of people in prison. We only execute hundreds (114 in 2006) of them a year. The appeals process is long, ineffective, and costly. From a financial standpoint, we’d save money not executing them.

Sure people like the revenge aspect, but considering the low numbers, we’d gain moral capitol (and save money) by recinding it.

Rudy’s trying to straddle the fence, and it’s rising up to bite him.

I wonder how he feels about catholic Marines who have killed in combat.

The Catholic Church is fine with Marines.

2265. Legitimate defense can be not only a right but a grave duty for one who is responsible for the lives of others. The defense of the common good requires that an unjust aggressor be rendered unable to cause harm. For this reason, those who legitimately hold authority also have the right to use arms to repel aggressors against the civil community entrusted to their responsibility.

Our Constitution protects religion from the intrusion or coercion of the state. But we have precious little protection against the political adventurism of all manner of churches and religious organizations.

As much as I personally believe that separation of Church and state has encouraged Americans to attend Church and allowed the US to become greater than if the Church ruled the state, this is actually true, the Church is protected from the state but not necessarily the state from the Church.

Reading the Lou Dobbs article made me want to ask is there different levels of heaven and hell?

Maybe it’s possible to say to someone, that’s not hell enough for you, seems not that much different from saying he’s not Christian enough.

Just depends on your perceived standing I guess.

Thine fury hath not heaven enough!