Now playing at ABC News: Cameron and Comfort versus the atheists
posted at 1:15 pm on May 9, 2007 by Allahpundit
I promised you the link on Monday, so here it is. The hour of reckoning is at hand, my friends. But, er, not for me — I won’t have time to watch until tonight. Some of us have jobs, you know.
Will C&C prove the almighty’s existence through the skillful use of their local produce section? I’m going to buck the CW and guess — yes! Click the image to watch.
Blowback
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Allah,
you forgot to capitalize the ‘almighty’. I’m just sayin’. Heheh.
PRCalDude on May 9, 2007 at 1:22 PM
Haven’t finished it, but so far it’s just a re-hash of the argument from design, with lots of props. All of it collapses with the realization that a significant factor in our recognition if things like Coke cans and churches as having been consciously crafted is the fact that we frequently observe people crafting similar items. That doesn’t hold true for, say, things like mountains or wolverines. It’s all a bit dull, really. I was hoping for something more outlandish.
No idea yet how the “Rational Response Squad” (which consists of two people?) will fare, though with any luck they’ll bring some crazy.
Blacklake on May 9, 2007 at 1:24 PM
Wow! ABC is so determined to find out once and for sure whether there is proof of God’s existence that they get a celebrities to express their viewpoints. Is there anything that we can’t learn by just listening to our moral and intellectual superiors in Hollywood?
cmay on May 9, 2007 at 1:26 PM
*Sigh*
Kurt said: “The existence of God can be proven 100% absolutely without the use of faith.”
Doesn’t the ability to prove beyond a reasonable doubt remove the need for faith?
Slublog on May 9, 2007 at 1:27 PM
C&C approached them to do the debate, though. ABC didn’t seek them out.
Allahpundit on May 9, 2007 at 1:28 PM
“Kurt”? (Kirk?)
Allahpundit on May 9, 2007 at 1:28 PM
Doesn’t the ability to prove beyond a reasonable doubt remove the need for faith?
Yes, of course.
This is silly and it keeps non believers from taking faith seriously.
Rightwingsparkle on May 9, 2007 at 1:32 PM
Slublog on May 9, 2007 at 1:27 PM
Exactly. The very reason I avoid this tomfoolery.
Theworldisnotenough on May 9, 2007 at 1:33 PM
Whoops. Yeah.
Kirk.
Slublog on May 9, 2007 at 1:34 PM
This is going to be like watching LARPers fight, isn’t it?
Bad Candy on May 9, 2007 at 1:39 PM
Isn’t that his point?
Andy in Agoura Hills on May 9, 2007 at 1:39 PM
I suppose, but it kind of goes against Christian teachings on the importance of faith to God (Heb. 11:6 for example).
Slublog on May 9, 2007 at 1:41 PM
Allah you gonna to take the blasphemy challenge?
Drtuddle on May 9, 2007 at 1:52 PM
Or Serenity/Star Wars fans.
CT on May 9, 2007 at 2:09 PM
Meanwhile, God looks down upon us and shakes His head.
.
GT on May 9, 2007 at 2:10 PM
KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANNNNN!
What? Sorry, wrong Kirk.
Steve LLamabutcher on May 9, 2007 at 2:10 PM
Um…what’s a LARPer?
Slublog on May 9, 2007 at 2:11 PM
Sheesh, I didn’t realize that this site was Jesus Central. Jesus and Rosie O’Donnel, 24/7. Who needs Rosie.com or Biblegateway.com when I can just breeze by here!
I finally have the answer to the question, “What do Jesus and Rosie O’Donnel have in common?”
Lehosh on May 9, 2007 at 2:12 PM
Slubbo, Live Action Role Player.
Remember Lightning Bolt! Lightning Bolt!
Bad Candy on May 9, 2007 at 2:13 PM
I haven’t watched this yet, but may later… But I am worried that these two made asses out of our side. There are plenty of scientists who would have been much better in their place. I mean, just about anyone would be better than someone who used to have a TV best friend named “Boner”.
RightWinged on May 9, 2007 at 2:13 PM
Comfort: “We’ll be judged according to the 10 commandments”.
What about the 4th one, keeping the sabbath day holy. I assume he follows that just as much as the 7th-no murdering.
Just sayin’.
Also if the 10 commandments are the only measuring stick, I don’t remember accepting Jesus as your personal savior as one of the 10.
Again, just sayin’.
mattshu on May 9, 2007 at 2:13 PM
Ah, here you go, lightning bolt!
http://youtube.com/watch?v=j_ekugPKqFw
Bad Candy on May 9, 2007 at 2:14 PM
I actually agree with them on nearly all they say, but they look as foolish as every episode of Bibleman.
mattshu on May 9, 2007 at 2:15 PM
Sweet mother of Buddha…I thought that was just a goof.
Slublog on May 9, 2007 at 2:15 PM
No. It’s gimmicky and smacks of a profession of faith. It’s like an atheist shahada. Makes my skin crawl.
Allahpundit on May 9, 2007 at 2:17 PM
LARPers are a breed unto themselves, huh?
Bad Candy on May 9, 2007 at 2:19 PM
Oh dear, neither side did very well…at all.
I think part of “Kelly” was intelligently designed.
jdpaz on May 9, 2007 at 2:20 PM
“Kelly” is a Lamarkian. D’oh.
jdpaz on May 9, 2007 at 2:21 PM
St. Thomas Aquinas gave it a really good try, but even he realizes the need for faith. Me, I’m more of the Nominalist tradition of William of Ockham–as far as I’m concerned, there are things that should only be approached through reason: Science for example; and there are other elements, such as the existence of God that can only be approached through faith. I don’t make any effort to rationalize my faith–it’s a part of who and what I am, but I’m not going to pretend to even try to rationally prove the existence of God, nor do I need to. My faith works well enough for me.
Matt Helm on May 9, 2007 at 2:23 PM
Well, it certainly makes me feel a lot less geeky for playing paintball.
Well said.
Slublog on May 9, 2007 at 2:24 PM
MATT 12 30-32. This goes beyond playing with fire. For anyone contemplating taking the blasphemy challenge I implore you not to participate in such a self destructive act.
sonnyspats1 on May 9, 2007 at 2:33 PM
Meh, it’s like watching the fight after suggesting that Spock was a Jedi…
Not enough fun to keep doing, but worth doing once I guess if you’re bored.
gekkobear on May 9, 2007 at 2:39 PM
I applaud Kirk Cameron and his colleague Ray Comfort for their efforts however it turns out. But I don’t need a TV show to tell me that God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit exists. They not only exist, they are alive. The Holy Spirit not only exists in my life, the Holy Spirit lives in my life. And as fallable and non-perfect as I am in every way, the Holy Spirit lives in me and I am forgiven.
I have accepted before, will accept again now for all to witness, and will always accept in the future, Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior. I accept God and the Holy Spirit into my life now and forever. I pray for all those misguided people on that website, that they may find redemption before it is too late, and AllahP too, so that he will see the light, accept the Lord Jesus Christ as his savior, and maybe someday stop with the snide little remarks whenever he posts anything remotely related to Christians.
Amen.
SilverStar830 on May 9, 2007 at 2:42 PM
How ’bout the Bible Fight Challenge?
zb42 on May 9, 2007 at 2:42 PM
“Kelly” says, jesus may not even have existed….”Kelly” just revealed herself as an unthinking moron.
jdpaz on May 9, 2007 at 2:45 PM
And Allah…no bananas or peanut butter…just the coke can.
jdpaz on May 9, 2007 at 2:49 PM
The atheists/agnostics have Comfort and Cameron,
and Hannity has Colmes.
All I can say is, “how Convenient.”
Oh yes, and if you’re thinking that all morons have names that start with the letter C,
don’t you dare say it. (CyberCipher)
CyberCipher on May 9, 2007 at 2:49 PM
Interesting that the only audience reaction occured during the atheists’ presentation (applause).
Makes me fear for the species.
Corky on May 9, 2007 at 2:52 PM
or just in case your wrong! :)
Drtuddle on May 9, 2007 at 2:57 PM
You are correct that the law is a measuring stick. It shows us that “all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God” (Romans 3:23)
The wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. (Romans 6:23)
So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith. (Gal. 3:24)
In short, Jesus was the only one who kept the law and thus the only one who could have died in our place.
jman on May 9, 2007 at 3:00 PM
If Ray and Kirk changed the mind of just one nonbeliever and helped save another lost soul from HELL. Then no matter how foolish you may think they looked, They WON !
abinitioadinfinitum on May 9, 2007 at 3:00 PM
I am convinced that the existence and attributes of the First Cause can be deduced logically and scientifically (eg. without invoking faith). The faith comes in when someone posits that this First Cause must be the God of the Christian Bible. That step cannot be proven purely logically and must be taken on faith.
jdpaz on May 9, 2007 at 3:06 PM
I’d only like to point out that the Atheists completely ignored Ray’s MAIN point. How complex is your body? Extremely complex. How complex is a house, not nearly as complex. If it’s obvious that something that’s slightly complex has a creator, then isn’t it just as obvious that something as complex as our body also has a creator? They completely ignored this point, and avoided it.
After that, wow, just wow, nothing that the Atheists were saying was true, or any good for refuting what Ray said.
j_ehman on May 9, 2007 at 3:07 PM
“You can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make him drink”, has never rung any truer than it does in these modern days.
The best anyone can do is to build your treasures in heaven and spread the word as far and wide as you can, then let God’s gift of Freedom of Choice do its work… because you can take nothing of this world with you when you die.
SilverStar830 on May 9, 2007 at 3:07 PM
FSM
Nonfactor on May 9, 2007 at 3:07 PM
Comfort really blew the lady’s question about cancer. He had his talking points – dealing with suffering and he refused to budge. I was like watching Rudy struggling through an answer on abortion. You wince and hope it ends soon.
He had the right answer, but he wouldn’t deviate from the points. Christians do not believe that “creation” is perfect now. Who would be that stupid? The Christian explanation for cancer and all the other sufferings of the world is the “fall,” which Comfort finally got to.
One can point to the initial design of humans, as Comfort, did and still acknowledge and explain the existence of cancer and other diseases. Every worldview faces the same question. For the evolutionists the question becomes if we are continually evolving, shouldn’t be we getting less and less diseases, cancer, etc.
i was nervous about this from the beginning, but you can’t fault ABC too much. C&C came to them, which gives them the added B (C?) list celebrity action, plus you add the Blasphemy Challenge people, which gives them some recognition and controversy without the struggles of getting a big name.
Unfortunately more people are going to watch this debacle than would sit through Norman Geisler and Ravi Zacharias butting heads with Christopher Hitchens and Richard Dawkins.
wardrobedoor on May 9, 2007 at 3:07 PM
The 10 commandments are the law by which the Judge will judge. Since NOBODY has kept them perfectly (aside from the Judge), nobody is worthy of Heaven. That is the function of the law; to point the way of righteousness, but also to prove sin.
But the fix is in. The Judge is also our Advocate, and His blood covers our sins, if we have asked Him to.
If we tell Him “No, your death and blood mean nothing to me”, then he will allow us to stand before the judgement seat uncovered, with our sins clear to see, and by the 10 commandments we will be guilty, earning everlasting punishment.
If we have surrendered to His supreme authority, then His blood as a ransom is all that is seen, our sins are invisible, and we are welcomed by grace, through faith, into His heavenly eternity.
– Ephesians 2:8-10
– Hebrews 11:1-3, 6, 7
Freelancer on May 9, 2007 at 3:10 PM
I love when people resort to “FSM” it makes Christian apologetics so much easier.
wardrobedoor on May 9, 2007 at 3:11 PM
Bingo!
Freelancer on May 9, 2007 at 3:13 PM
I actually thought that Kirk Cameron comported himself quite well given the circumstances. He actually gave respect to the other side. The other guy didn’t need to be saying, “You need to have a brain that works” over and over again.
Martin Bashir seemed to be a bit shaded to one side. Maybe he’ll shade the other way in part two.
On the two atheists: first, Brian reminded me of the atheist version of the Mac “Christ Follower” guy. A little too cool for school if you ask me. And Kelly seemed to relish throwing in fictional gods like “The Spaghetti Monster” and “Captain America” to get laughs. Then they agreed that the universe has just “always been” when scoffing at the Christians for explaining that God has “always been”.
All in all, the Christians lost part one of the debate before it even started. Faith is an important part of Christianity and you should never say that you can prove the existence of God without the use of faith, because doing so would make it nearly compulsitory to believe.
Style points go to the Christians, though.
Matticus Finch on May 9, 2007 at 3:14 PM
Flying Spaghetti Monster?
Slublog on May 9, 2007 at 3:15 PM
Federated States of Micronesia?
jdpaz on May 9, 2007 at 3:23 PM
I find the audience fairly annoying as well. Talk about one-sided. Just isn’t right of them to do that. It makes it seem like no one believes the same as Cameron and Comfort.
j_ehman on May 9, 2007 at 3:27 PM
Flatulence Scares Me?
jman on May 9, 2007 at 3:28 PM
j_ehman on May 9:
It was really annoying when they applauded the freakin’ moderator!!1
jdpaz on May 9, 2007 at 3:30 PM
FSM, indeed. Who here remembers the IPU?
Krydor on May 9, 2007 at 3:31 PM
“For those who don’t have faith, no explanation will ever be enough. For those who do believe, no explanation is necessary.”
dread pirate roberts on May 9, 2007 at 3:31 PM
I can’t believe that lady had the nerve to lie through her teeth like that about Jesus. There is TONS of historical evidence for his existence. Wow, just plain wow. You know you’re desperate when you start lying to get people to agree with you.
j_ehman on May 9, 2007 at 3:32 PM
I’m with you jdpaz
j_ehman on May 9, 2007 at 3:33 PM
Oh, and there was nothing wrong with his response to the “cancer” lady. Her question was unfair, BECAUSE, if she had been listening, Ray NEVER said our body was perfect. He only pointed out how complex it is. Seriously, these people are hearing what they want to hear. His response to her was correct, and there was no need for her to get all uptight.
j_ehman on May 9, 2007 at 3:34 PM
Must be somewhere south of her vocal cords. Yeesh!
The Monster on May 9, 2007 at 3:35 PM
I agree with both of you, but my point was that Comfort simplified it in the video down to “10 commandments” being the ruler by which we are judged. Which is too simplistic of an answer for a complex question about who goes to hell.
The right answer is, “I don’t know who goes where, luckily I don’t have to judge that. I just do the best I can”.
mattshu on May 9, 2007 at 3:37 PM
They did makes asses out of your side. But if it’s any consolation, the League of Extraordinary Rebutters (or whatever absurdity they call themselves) didn’t exactly make atheism smell like roses, either.
All in all it was an exercise in mediocrity that’d make “American Idol” proud. Only even more boring.
Blacklake on May 9, 2007 at 3:38 PM
No. Faith is trust in something or someone. It is not, as it is so often wrongly construed, belief in something without evidence.
Bill Ramey on May 9, 2007 at 3:39 PM
I believe there is evidence for God. I do not believe, however, there is absolute proof.
Slublog on May 9, 2007 at 3:40 PM
J_Ehman, I know it was in a sense unfair because she misquoted him, but he should have been able to deviate enough from the talking points to address specifically cancer (which seems to be a very personal issue to that lady) instead of going on about suffering.
Christians have to do more than simply win the argument. That is not the point of the faith. We can win debates all day long, but we also must project some empathy and understanding. That lady and even the “Blasphemous Duo” aren’t our enemies, as Paul wrote, “we struggle not against flesh and blood.”
As a little aside, the Blasphemy Challenge is such a joke anyway, as it is a complete misunderstanding of the text. There are numerous people who over the course of history have denied the existence of God and thus the Holy Spirit while later deciding to follow God and accept Jesus – C.S. Lewis being a prime example.
wardrobedoor on May 9, 2007 at 3:42 PM
Lay atheists and lay Christians are usually poor arguers. I recommend J. L. Mackie’s The Miracle of Theism for a good defense of atheism and J. P. Moreland’s Scaling the Secular City for a good defense of Christianity. Both of those books point to other good resources as well.
Bill Ramey on May 9, 2007 at 3:44 PM
Athesist’s don’t like the idea that Hell might actually exist, so like an ostrich with their head in the sand,
they choose to tell everyone that it doesn’t exist.
Choosing to believe that people will never be held responsible for their own actions is what a engineer (like myself) might call a:
FSM (Fail Safe Mechanism)
You see the same behavior out of Paris Hilton. Of course, she can wallow in denial all she wants, but THAT b*tch is goin’ ta JAIL! Woohoo!
CyberCipher on May 9, 2007 at 3:45 PM
Yeah, her upper body is kind of a microcosm for the whole debate, isn’t it?
Blacklake on May 9, 2007 at 3:45 PM
wardrobedoor on May 9, 2007 at 3:42 PM
yes, I do agree with your point. But, his talking point applied just as much to her question without having to use the word cancer. Oh, and here’s a verse that you should read.
Matthew 7:6
The point being to not bother telling people details about God and scripture that don’t want to hear it. From what I could tell, Ray and Kurt’s words fell on deaf ears.
j_ehman on May 9, 2007 at 3:47 PM
Maybe in the audience, but probably not on network television. They reached a lot of folks.
Matticus Finch on May 9, 2007 at 3:56 PM
Let’s see… I am faced with a difficult choice. Watch these Nancy Girls or the Sopranos. Think I’ll take a pass on queer eye for the atheists.
Wade on May 9, 2007 at 3:57 PM
“The christian folks think they’re at the top/
Ask any proud christian son/
2 thousand years of evolution/We get Kirk Cameron”
Drtuddle on May 9, 2007 at 3:58 PM
I personally do not understand how anyone can read Prophesy in the Old Testament, that was fulfilled centuries later in the New Testament and still deny God.
Micah 5:2
But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, [though] thou be little among the thousands of Judah, [yet] out of thee shall he come forth unto me [that is] to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth [have been] from of old, from everlasting.
(Jesus was born in Bethlehem)
Zechariah 9:9
Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he [is] just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass.
(Jesus entered Jerusalem riding upon an ass)
Zechariah 11:12
And I said unto them, If ye think good, give [me] my price; and if not, forbear. So they weighed for my price thirty [pieces] of silver.
(Jesus was betrayed for thirty pieces of silver)
Zechariah 13:6
And [one] shall say unto him, What [are] these wounds in thine hands? Then he shall answer, [Those] with which I was wounded [in] the house of my friends.
(Jesus was wounded in his hands)
Isaiah 53:7
He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.
(Jesus did not open his mouth) “to defend himself”
Isaiah 53:9
And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither [was any] deceit in his mouth.
(Jesus was crucified between two wicked and buried in a rich mans tomb)
Psalms 22:16
For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet.
(Jesus had his hands and feet pierced)
This all was written 700+ years before crucifixion was even invented!
abinitioadinfinitum on May 9, 2007 at 4:02 PM
because they’ve been told that the Bible is full of lies, and never bothered to do their own research on it.
j_ehman on May 9, 2007 at 4:11 PM
False
Pride is Satans favorite Sin and the sin
God hates the most
We do not do this for our sake, but for YOURS
abinitioadinfinitum on May 9, 2007 at 4:12 PM
Agreed.
I’m not sure how “liberally” (can I use that word here? ;) ) we should apply Jesus’ words about pearls and swines. Taken to the extreme it could almost discount The Great Commission and the use of apologetics in general.
wardrobedoor on May 9, 2007 at 4:13 PM
ya, I don’t mean it like that. It’s whenever you know people are going to do to your words what the Atheists did to C&C’s words, you just don’t bother. Something like that anyways. I wouldn’t say don’t minister, and share the gospel with others, but don’t get in debates like that. So I’ve decided to stop debating people here on Hot Air about my beliefs, because all they ever seem to do is insult me. I’ve been called delusional at least once on here, and I think maybe idiot, and moron a couple times already as well. It isn’t worth having people say such things, especially when they don’t even know you.
j_ehman on May 9, 2007 at 4:17 PM
I respect and understand that. I guess that is one of the areas where we have to see what God has called and gifted us to do and act accordingly.
Not everyone is called and gifted to throw down apologetics in the public arena. I wish I had the skills of men like Geisler and others to do that. But it’s like Paul says to the church at Corinth, we are all part of the same body but we have different functions and none of the functions or parts are more important than the others.
Whatever you do, don’t lose heart and give up doing what God called you do, no matter what reaction you get. Remember that you are in charge of your obedience, God’s in charge of the results.
wardrobedoor on May 9, 2007 at 4:24 PM
wardrobedoor on May 9, 2007 at 4:24 PM
Thank you.
j_ehman on May 9, 2007 at 4:32 PM
Remember Matthew 5:11
jman on May 9, 2007 at 4:37 PM
Kirk hasn’t been a celebrity in a long long time, having given up Hollywood to devote his life to his faith. I think they did very well in the debate and as someone said above, if they made just one person question or even turn to faith, they were a success.
Glynn on May 9, 2007 at 4:47 PM
Since when have atheists been in the closet????
Esthier on May 9, 2007 at 4:48 PM
I like Kirk, but he has this one way wrong.
Problem is that without faith we can’t have understanding of God. So trying to prove God without faith is self-defeating.
Lawrence on May 9, 2007 at 4:54 PM
Just watched what was available on ABC.com, as well as the extras on http://www.rationalresponders.com. Kirk was definitely rattled. Some of the devout Christians here at HA should head over there and get on their debate threads and check out their free shows and debates. Also, read why Kelly brought up the whole mythicism of Jesus thing, it wasn’t just to be “dishonest”.
Yeah their style is a little arrogant, but they’ve never lost any debates I’ve heard them in. But, there will always be as many arrogant theists as there are non-theists. It’s just human nature! Everyone can point fingers at the other side.
All in all, I knew the RRS would wipe the floor with C&C after watching the whole “banana” video lead-up, haha. I just don’t know how people here can say how lame and boring this was! For the first time in my lifetime (that I can recall), there was an actual “live” debate on national TV on a major network about the existence of God. This should be happening every week on American TV, with all the Christian scholars and scientists out there, against all the atheist scholars and scientists out there. It would be way more beneficial to our culture than crap like Idol or Dancing with the Stars, sheesh! We need more education and more of this kind of debate, since our pop culture is freakin garbage!
Roark on May 9, 2007 at 4:59 PM
Understanding God and knowing with your mind that God exists are two different things.
Esthier on May 9, 2007 at 5:09 PM
Atheism is a form of intellectualism that demands that logic be the first commandment in an Atheist’s belief system. And being that they cannot see, feel, smell, taste, or touch God, He, by their logic, does not exist.
Atheists do have faith, but it resides solely in themselves, which is the primary tenet of intellectualism and why it is the antithesis of religion.
Atheism, however, goes far beyond that of the non believer by finding it necessary ridicule and demean those of us who believe in God through pure faith.
It’s as if they were jealous of something we knew and they didn’t.
pocomoco on May 9, 2007 at 5:10 PM
FSM?
OMGLOLZ!!!1!1!111
RAmen! HAHAHAHA! Soooo Funny. Seriously, there should be a rule, if you evoke FSM, you get backhanded, the debate ends and you lose, period. FSM is about as funny as genocide at this point. The morons who howl uncontrollably every time FSM is evoked have driven any potential that stupid thing had at being funny into the ground.
Bad Candy on May 9, 2007 at 5:13 PM
They quote only liberal scholars, like Bart Ehrman. It’s the same thing Muslims do when debating Christians. If you only read what reinforces your point of view, and not your opponent’s arguments, what’s the point?
PRCalDude on May 9, 2007 at 5:17 PM
Hey Allah use your great Atheist powers and back this guy off of me!
Drtuddle on May 9, 2007 at 5:17 PM
Which seems strange though, doesn’t it? I mean my senses let me down on a regular basis. We can now use computers to trick our own senses into seeing something that isn’t even there.
I know the opposite is also true. If we’re so failable, then maybe Christians are wrong as well, but if Christians are wrong, so what?
Esthier on May 9, 2007 at 5:21 PM
No there wasn’t. The debate was Saturday and Nightline will play excerpts from it tonight, if some bigger story doesn’t get in the way. Or at least that’s what I read someplace anyway.
Bad Penny on May 9, 2007 at 5:39 PM
Yeah, that’s right, AllahPundit is just like Yosemite Sam:
“Back off ya’ varmit!”
(Besides, there are some of us that would rather turn the humping robot loose on the good doctor.)
Don’t thank me. Just bein’ neighborly.
CyberCipher on May 9, 2007 at 5:51 PM
I just love his argument about how the world’s energy has always existed and that that’s OK, but to say that God is infinite is somehow not OK.
And what about the universe? For some reason it has just always existed and that’s that? Doesn’t that seem illogical, especially considering that it is expanding, which implies that something put that expansion into motion?
Certainly it can’t always have been expanding since expansion must start somewhere.
Honestly, the eternity thing makes sense for people who worship a being they describe as “magical” but it feels dishonest from people who purport to speak of science.
Esthier on May 9, 2007 at 5:53 PM
Still no scientific proof of God!
But how could there be? It’s faith and faith alone.
Bring back Deism! That is my suggestion.
Oxybeles on May 9, 2007 at 5:55 PM
Lay athiests? Aren’t all athiests, by definition, lay?
Sydney Carton on May 9, 2007 at 6:07 PM
As I see it, Atheists have one task that will finally end all arguments on the existence of God. But in order to do so they first must put aside all of the ‘magical’ mumbo jumbo they’ve used in the past to refute His existence.
Then, it’s just a simple matter of them using the power of their intellectually superior logic to prove that God does NOT exist.
Elementary, my dear Watson.
pocomoco on May 9, 2007 at 6:16 PM
I disagree. If God exists, then surely He wouldn’t be hiding. To say that it’s nothing but faith is to put it in the relm of fairy tales, the relm of Peter Pan and the fairies, where kids are told that if only they believe, Tinker Bell won’t die.
And if it was supposed to be all about faith, why did God come to earth and perform miracles as Jesus Christ?
Why raise the dead?
Why raise Himself?
And why perform the signs asked of Him in the Old Testiment by Gideon or any signs He performed in the Old Testiment?
Yes, Christianity requires faith, but not merely that a God exists, mostly that God is who God says He is. Moses is creditted as having faith, but in that very same sentence, it’s mentioned that Moses saw God, so clearly Moses’s faith wasn’t in God’s existence.
Esthier on May 9, 2007 at 6:25 PM
WTF?
John from WuzzaDem on May 9, 2007 at 6:41 PM
I believe what you described would be a form of intellectualism that places empiricism at its foundation, not logic. Logic really isn’t concerned with sights, feelings, or scents, but with abstractions like p’s and q’s, truth tables, and sets.
And really, who doesn’t place empiricism at the foundation of their belief system, when one clears out all the pretentions and looks at the gritty simple business of living? It’s what keeps one from banging one’s shins repeatedly on the coffee table, enables one to locate and drive the car home after work, and countless other such practical wonders. A brain that places no urgency on processing the empirical is a brain that dies young.
The truth is that, the abundant absurdities of atheistic versus theistic debates aside, science is simply the practice of applying the sensibilities of commonsense world navigation to subjects more complicated than those we typically have to deal with in everyday life.
Blacklake on May 9, 2007 at 6:45 PM
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