Nutroots overcome by the vapors after GOP congressman quotes KKK founder
posted at 5:10 pm on May 8, 2007 by Allahpundit
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Ace, surprisingly, chalks it up to ignorance of the context: the (mis-)quote in question belongs to Nathan Bedford Forrest, who, in addition to being a terrorist and a moral monster, was an almost universally recognized military genius. (If you’ve seen Ken Burns’s documentary on the Civil War, you’ll remember Shelby Foote talking about him.) “Git thar fustest with the mostest” is his most famous military aphorism. Ted Poe, the congressman, was quoting him on a basic point of strategy, not a point of morals. Ace seems to believe the left doesn’t know that … but of course they do. It’s all readily available on Wikipedia and Google. They simply choose to ignore it, much like when Think Progress — which is leading the outrage parade on this story — demanded an explanation from Tony Snow last year after he used the phrase “hug the tar baby” even though they admitted they knew he didn’t mean it in a racist sense. The point isn’t to prove that Ted Poe is racist, it’s to float a facially credible charge of racism against Republicans in hopes of getting it into the wider media where most people will glance at it without checking to see if it has merit. Olbermann will probably pick it up tonight for his “Worst Person in the World” segment, where he conveniently allots himself only a few seconds to explain the charge without offering context.
This is a useful example of why it’s pointless to engage the left. Not only do they act in bad faith, they justify it by attributing bad faith to their target. Some of them, I promise you, would tell you that even if Poe didn’t intend anything racist by what he said, he intended it unconsciously by choosing Forrest for his point of reference, as some sort of code or semiotic secret handshake or whatever among members of the nefarious Republican secret society. Which is also why, incidentally, I think Jeff Goldstein’s wide of the mark when he rips on them (as in the post linked above) for not being intentionalist in their textual interpretations. They are intentionalists; they have to be in order to prove the proper level of criminal culpability in their perpetual trial of conservatism. But they allow themselves a fudge in the form of unconscious intent when the facts aren’t there to prove intent otherwise. That’s why being pro-life is really about “controlling women’s bodies,” why opposing affirmative action is a backdoor attempt to reinstate Jim Crow, etc. etc. There’s always a malign motive or an evil conspiracy to be found if you squint hard enough. Why do you think so many Truthers skew left?
Anyway, riddle me this. If quoting moral monsters for the occasional truth of their observations is wrong, how is it that this little jewel’s been shown off on so many “reality-based” sites over the past four (or six) years? In fact, in my googling travels this afternoon, I found it buried in the archives of a certain nutroots blog that’s making one of the biggest stinks about Ted Poe. But I’ll leave you to find that for yourselves, as a sort of hypocrisy easter-egg hunt. Like I say, it’s usually not worth the time to engage the left, even to make fun of them.
Update: Captain Ed reminds the left that their tolerance for Klansmen seems to be a bit selective.
Update: Goldstein corrects me in the comments below:
Actually, I argue that they are proceeding from an intentionalist argument, but their fudge is that they posit that someone somewhere who is less astute than they might “misinterpret” the use of tar-baby as racial and become offended, which is why Snow should have avoided using it.
All interpretation is intentionalist, is my argument. The question is, whose intention are we privileging when we say we are interpreting, the utterer’s or the receiver’s?
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Actually, it’s not that our “friends” across the aisle neither don’t know nor don’t care that Forrest was a military genius. Indeed, that fact is just another reason for them to vilify both him and anybody who (mis)quotes him.
Damn, but that’s a lot of negatives in that sentence. It, however is fitting considering we are talking about liberals.
steveegg on May 8, 2007 at 5:17 PM
Wow. So, we have a guy who somewhat quoted a KKK member. They have a former KKK member, who continues to spew racist remarks. Yet, somehow, we’re the racist ones?
2 words: Senator Byrd.
amerpundit on May 8, 2007 at 5:17 PM
Senator Byrd will be mentioned 1000000000000 times in this thread.
Nonfactor on May 8, 2007 at 5:20 PM
Nonfactor, 999999999998 to go as of 5:20. Maybe you should have pared that one down. And given the brazillion times I’ve seen that Goering quote on various lefty sites and non lefty sites posted by lefty commenters, you’re gripes will fall on deaf ears.
Allah’s right, actually, dunno why I’m trying to discuss this with you.
Bad Candy on May 8, 2007 at 5:25 PM
Robert “Sheets” Byrd
Robert “Sheets” Byrd
Robert “Sheets” Byrd
Robert “Sheets” Byrd
Robert “Sheets” Byrd
Robert “Sheets” Byrd
Here, I’ll even give you a few gimmes. 999999999992 (as of 525)
Bad Candy on May 8, 2007 at 5:27 PM
Gee. Maybe because there’s a reason? While the Democrats accuse the Reps of being racist, they have a former KKK member sitting on their side, prominently. Apparently, your upset a fact will come up in the discussion.
amerpundit on May 8, 2007 at 5:29 PM
your = you’re
amerpundit on May 8, 2007 at 5:30 PM
One of my favorite sayings: “Those who live in glass houses, shouldn’t throw stones”.
amerpundit on May 8, 2007 at 5:32 PM
Uh oh, if this gets out it cause make black people to develop an unflattering image of Republicans. THE HORROR!!
Enrique on May 8, 2007 at 5:32 PM
Gah, thats your! I didn’t think I’d make that mistake.
Bad Candy on May 8, 2007 at 5:32 PM
Just proves my point….anyone who quotes Bill Clinton is a philanderer.
Limerick on May 8, 2007 at 5:32 PM
Heh.
Bad Candy on May 8, 2007 at 5:32 PM
Whoa, what the hell was I smoking when I wrote THAT gramatically disastrous sentence?
Enrique on May 8, 2007 at 5:32 PM
Cool, so he’s right up there with Grant, Sherman and Sheridan…
Hiraghm on May 8, 2007 at 5:34 PM
How many federal properties in West Virginia are named after a former Klansman?
The ends justify the means when you’re on the left sided short bus.
rw on May 8, 2007 at 5:35 PM
Probably what I was when I unleashed the grammatically-correct (I think) triple-negative.
steveegg on May 8, 2007 at 5:36 PM
People like to quote Sun Tsu all the time, and he was a moral monster, terrorist and military genius.
Hiraghm on May 8, 2007 at 5:38 PM
NEW RULE: If military historians can’t quote Forrest, then college students can’t wear Che tees.
fusionaddict on May 8, 2007 at 5:39 PM
OK, I really like this rule.
As for this thread, what the hell is with this thread that is making us grammatical morons?
Bad Candy on May 8, 2007 at 5:46 PM
Hiraghm on May 8, 2007 at 5:47 PM
Done and done!
I want to punch the smug little punks every time I see them in their stupid Che shirts – and I’m not prone to violence.
JadeNYU on May 8, 2007 at 5:47 PM
Great point. Julius Caesar anyone?
Allah, you perfectly echoed, much more wordy than I’m able, the exact reason why I left the left. Dishonest debate and the gotcha! factor that they so adore.
SouthernDem on May 8, 2007 at 5:53 PM
quoted for truth.
jummy on May 8, 2007 at 5:54 PM
Yup. And until you folks manage to get rid of him or finally call him on his continued racism, we’re going to keep bringing him up.
Slublog on May 8, 2007 at 5:54 PM
Sen. Robert “Sheets” Byrd
Sen. Robert “Sheets” Byrd
Sen. Robert “Sheets” Byrd
Sen. Robert “Sheets” Byrd
Sen. Robert “Sheets” Byrd
Sen. Robert “Sheets” Byrd
Sen. Robert “Sheets” Byrd
foxforce91 on May 8, 2007 at 5:56 PM
Wow. Tomorrow’s a dark day in history and I almost missed it.
The day Forrest surrendered
Hiraghm on May 8, 2007 at 5:57 PM
From Wiki… thought I’d remembered that part…
Yes, they are condeming him for misquoting one of the FIRST people to CONDEMN the KKK… the one who asked it to disband…
History a funny thing… there is the popular story, then there is real history which is often quite different…
Romeo13 on May 8, 2007 at 5:58 PM
Time to do my part…
Sen. Robert “Sheets” Byrd
Sen. Robert “Sheets” Byrd
Sen. Robert “Sheets” Byrd
Sen. Robert “Sheets” Byrd
Sen. Robert “Sheets” Byrd
Sen. Robert “Sheets” Byrd
Sen. Robert “Sheets” Byrd
Sen. Robert “Sheets” Byrd
Sen. Robert “Sheets” Byrd
Sen. Robert “Sheets” Byrd
NEXT!
steveegg on May 8, 2007 at 6:01 PM
Don’t get too upset with them , Jade. They probably think he was one of the Beatles. I counter them by wearing my No-Che shirt. And, on Fridays I wear my Reagan campaign button that I bought at…wait for it…a GUN SHOW! Heh.
Barntender on May 8, 2007 at 6:01 PM
And, as a loyal browncoat and dedicated Firefly fan, I’m compelled to quote:
Hiraghm on May 8, 2007 at 6:03 PM
I forgot.
Sen. Robert “Sheets” Byrd
Sen. Robert “Sheets” Byrd
Sen. Robert “Sheets” Byrd
Barntender on May 8, 2007 at 6:04 PM
The horrors!
You should make a t-shirt that says “This button purchased at a gun show” with a giant arrow that points at the button. That will get more people to read the button and have the added benefit of doubly pissing of the Che-shirt wearers.
JadeNYU on May 8, 2007 at 6:04 PM
Judge Poe for President!
Ropera on May 8, 2007 at 6:06 PM
Speaking of the “Che” shirt, one of the Cheddarsphere denziens has a shirt styled like it, but with Ronald Reagan’s face on it.
steveegg on May 8, 2007 at 6:08 PM
And Al Gore set up a memorial for Mr. Forrester.
Capitalist Infidel on May 8, 2007 at 6:18 PM
Robert “Sheets” Byrd
Robert “Sheets” Byrd
Robert “Sheets” Byrd
Robert “Sheets” Byrd
Robert “Sheets” Byrd
Robert “Sheets” Byrd
Robert “Sheets” Byrd
Robert “Sheets” Byrd
Robert “Sheets” Byrd
So, does this mean that liberals will have to stop watching “Forrest Gump”, since his character was named after Nathan Bedford Forrest?
BigOrangeAxe on May 8, 2007 at 6:18 PM
Consequences are for conservatives! Liberals can do no wrong
Cold Cash Jefferson
Di Haliburton Fi
Harry Dingy Reid
Ted Snorkel Kennedy
Pat Ambien&Scotch Kennedy
Sandy Burglar
The 6-8 unnamed Dem Senators heavily involved with Jack Abramov (You guys should do a post on Brian Ross’ selective corruption investigations, I lay money that most of the DC madam’s clients were Dems, that’s why the list didn’t come out)
Sen. Robert Sheets Bird
Sen. Robert Sheets Bird
Sen. Robert Sheets Bird
Sen. Robert Sheets Bird
Iblis on May 8, 2007 at 6:24 PM
Jimmy Carter descended from a family that had resided in Georgia for several generations. His great-grandfather Private L.B. Walker Carter (1832–1874) served in the Confederate States Army in the Sumter Flying Artillery, seeing considerable action at the Battle of Gettysburg.—-
thanks Wiki for clearing that up.
Limerick on May 8, 2007 at 6:30 PM
I concur
Welcome Back AP
although Senator Bird should not be mentioned because He should not be
SenatorBirdabinitioadinfinitum on May 8, 2007 at 6:35 PM
Ah those nutroots … couldn’t find a more sanctimonious bunch if you tried. At least they keep the tinfoil mills working.
darwin on May 8, 2007 at 6:38 PM
SouthernDem,
I meant that statement applied to myself !
abinitioadinfinitum on May 8, 2007 at 6:41 PM
I wouldn’t call Forrest a moral monster or a terrorist.
When slavery was in the slave business there was on stigma on him. He was no different than the local horse trader in the eyes of his contemporaries. Obviously, in today’s eyes he’s a monster but I’ve never liked imposing our modern taboos on historical figures.
Hiragm hit the nail on the head here:
To call a military commander a terrorist because he plied his trade (that of a soldier) during wartime is a bit of a stretch. I’m not normally a Confederate Apologist by any stretch and I firmly believe Jeff Davis and his minion were WAY out of line and paid the price for their actions. All that said, I do have to rush to Forrest’s defense here. During his various raids he foraged for sustenance which is perfectly acceptable under the 1860 Articles of War.
Lastly, Forrest slapped together the Klan to defend southern white families against the occupation Union army. They, the Klan, started attacking the newly freed black folks and he shut it down…or at least tried. The Klan as we know it was really reborn in the 20’s I believe.
Pilgrim on May 8, 2007 at 6:58 PM
Count=38
while [ $Count -le 1000000000000]
do
echo ‘Senator Robert “Sheets” Byrd (D-WV)’
Count=`expr $Count + 1`
done
The Monster on May 8, 2007 at 7:02 PM
needs to be a space between 0 and ]
When will you guys get a preview button?
The Monster on May 8, 2007 at 7:05 PM
Thanks for reminding me to do what the presstitutes usually don’t, Monster. Time for a redo….
Sen. Robert “Sheets” Byrd (D-WV)
Sen. Robert “Sheets” Byrd (D-WV)
Sen. Robert “Sheets” Byrd (D-WV)
Sen. Robert “Sheets” Byrd (D-WV)
Sen. Robert “Sheets” Byrd (D-WV)
Sen. Robert “Sheets” Byrd (D-WV)
Sen. Robert “Sheets” Byrd (D-WV)
Sen. Robert “Sheets” Byrd (D-WV)
Sen. Robert “Sheets” Byrd (D-WV)
Sen. Robert “Sheets” Byrd (D-WV)
I must have had a presstitute moment for forgetting Sheets is a Dim bulb.
steveegg on May 8, 2007 at 7:06 PM
I did point them over here. It does the job over at my hole in the wall.
steveegg on May 8, 2007 at 7:08 PM
Robert “Sheets” Byrd
Robert “Sheets” Byrd
Robert “Sheets” Byrd
Robert “Sheets” Byrd
Robert “Sheets” Byrd
Robert “Sheets” Byrd
Robert “Sheets” Byrd
Robert “Sheets” Byrd
Robert “Sheets” Byrd
amerpundit on May 8, 2007 at 7:22 PM
I might add that even this post is historicaly inaccurate.
He didn’t create the KKK, he joined it, and because of his celebrity became one of its leaders as it grew.
But the origional KKK was built around trying to get the Northern Carpetbaggers to stop their Congressionaly mandated theivery of every Southern resource. The Congress put this policy in power because they were afraid that if the South remained strong, that the war could start all over again. There was no forgive and forget, no rebuilding, there was wholesale looting going on.
When the North attempted, UNCONSTITUTIONALY to put Congressionaly mandated laws about voting on the books… somthing that was left to the discretion of the states… some of the KKK got violent… and Forrest attempted to disband the KKK, and condemned its violence…
Sooo..
Would be more accurate if it read…
Nutroots overcome by the vapors after GOP Congressman Misquotes the man who Condemned KKK violence.
Romeo13 on May 8, 2007 at 7:23 PM
Word.
Incidentally, isn’t it almost comical to see them foaming at the mouth over this when their beloved ACLU was founded by Communists? And where was their outrage when Howard Dean. embraced European Socialists by making shaking hands with Ségolène Royal and making a speech at the PES-Congress of European Socialists Parties convention last December? Oh that’s right. They love that sort of thing. When a GOP congressman uses a quote by a military genius to make a larger point, of course it’s ignored in order to paint the entire GOP as a group of filthy racists. When the head of the DNC openly supports Socialism, and when virtually the entire Democratic party embraces the ACLU even though it was founded by Communists, well, that’s ok, because, like, they mean well.
SisterToldjah on May 8, 2007 at 7:41 PM
I just tried to post something that completely disappeared, so instead of retyping it, I’ll simply say “word.”
SisterToldjah on May 8, 2007 at 7:43 PM
Sen. Robert “Sheets” Byrd (D-WV)
Sen. Robert “Sheets” Byrd (D-WV)
Sen. Robert “Sheets” Byrd (D-WV)
Sen. Robert “Sheets” Byrd (D-WV)
Sen. Robert “Sheets” Byrd (D-WV)
Sen. Robert “Sheets” Byrd (D-WV)
Sen. Robert “Sheets” Byrd (D-WV)
Sen. Robert “Sheets” Byrd (D-WV)
Sen. Robert “Sheets” Byrd (D-WV)
Sen. Robert “Sheets” Byrd (D-WV)
Btw you can seperate Bedford Forrest the general from Bedford Forrest the Klansmen, and he was a brilliant general who was known for being difficult to fight. I’m not particularly fond of him because he founded the Klan regardless of his reason for doing so then ‘disbanding it’ he opened the genie bottle and for that, as a jew, i really don’t like him. But this is yet another made up scandal
Defector01 on May 8, 2007 at 8:02 PM
Ted Poe did put the “skeer” into them as Forrest would say.
Valiant on May 8, 2007 at 8:10 PM
Dammit…..someone beat me to it ; )
The Ugly American on May 8, 2007 at 8:50 PM
Forrest didn’t found the KKK, he was the first Grand Wizard. George Gordon was the founder.
Verbal Abuse on May 8, 2007 at 9:10 PM
Sen. Robert “Sheets” Byrd
Verbal Abuse on May 8, 2007 at 9:10 PM
SisterToldjah, et all, when you use the word com*unist or soci*list in a comment, always use special characters. Otherwise you end up in the ‘mill’ every time.
By the nutroots’ logic they’d have to denounce anyone who mentions Napoleon. But, heh, you can mention Stalin, Marx, Lenin, Engels, Castro, Chavez, no problem…
Entelechy on May 8, 2007 at 10:18 PM
Yet. Give it a year. ;)
Connie on May 8, 2007 at 10:43 PM
Had to change it several times to get all the info…
Sen. Robert “Sheets” Byrd (D-WV)
Sen. Robert “Sheets” Byrd (D-WV)
Sen. Robert “Sheets” Byrd (D-WV)
Sen. Robert “Sheets” Byrd (D-WV)
Sen. Robert “Sheets” Byrd (D-WV)
tormod on May 8, 2007 at 10:54 PM
Actually, I argue that they are proceeding from an intentionalist argument, but their fudge is that they posit that someone somewhere who is less astute than they might “misinterpret” the use of tar-baby as racial and become offended, which is why Snow should have avoided using it.
All interpretation is intentionalist, is my argument. The question is, whose intention are we privileging when we say we are interpreting, the utterer’s or the receiver’s?
Jeff G on May 9, 2007 at 12:16 AM
I’ll update. Sorry to have misrepresented you.
Allahpundit on May 9, 2007 at 12:18 AM
Allah, this has been my point for ages now. I’m NOT afraid to debate the left. I refuse to debate them. I’d rather take the proverbial sharp stick to either or both eyes.
james hooker on May 9, 2007 at 4:23 AM
Robert Byrd is just the tip of the pointy hat.
In our view, we should be focusing on something much bigger than Senator Byrd. Namely, the fact that the KKK was created by Democrats to serve as the terrorist wing of the Democratic Party, with the specific aim of killing Republicans.
We noticed that only one person so far has mentioned that, and we think THAT is the meme that needs to be spread, because in certain ways, less has changed since 1860 than one might think.
ModernConservative on May 9, 2007 at 8:41 AM
Forrest did not found the KKK. Get your history right.
Hilts on May 9, 2007 at 10:36 AM
P.S. Mention of Sen. Byrd is simply a red herring.
Nonfactor on May 9, 2007 at 3:25 PM
P.S. a liberal on this blog, smells like a red herring.
right2bright on May 9, 2007 at 4:01 PM
Nonfactor n. The rule of the majority. eg, Mob-rule.
Democrats always use the mob method to get their ways. In a tachnological society, they do it with mob media.
Bringing up the Che shirts reminded me of this. While on active duty, upon transferring to a new command, I learned that one of my workers was named Che. My first thought was “egads, how can someone that wants to call himself that be in the military?”. Then I saw that it was his legally given name, and on meeting him discovered that his parents were total hippies, and named him for their hero. Poor guy. Good hard worker though, and not a socialist bone in his body.
Freelancer on May 9, 2007 at 4:11 PM
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