And waiting …

Gregor on May 10, 2007 at 5:34 PM

Yup, we sure are… waiting for YOU to prove YOUR 50% claim that got this ball rolling.

Again, when are you going to stop demanding others prove a negative and show statistics backing up your 50% figure? YOU issued a bet and right2bright took the bet… which you are now afraid to really get in to. YOU made the claim, and you’d have to be a complete idiot to not understand that it’s on YOU to prove it.

Again, key points (outside of you being an idiot and a liar): Oakland doesn’t = California. No more than I speak for 100 people around me (as Oakland makes up only 1% and change of California’s population), the demographics are completely different. Higher minority population = higher minority business ownership. Even though Oakland is primarily black, Asians and Middle Easterners are better at opening businesses. ARE YOU GETTING THIS YET!? Oakland does NOT = California!!! And again, that’s irrelevant anyway because you didn’t give statistics on Oakland, you gave links to blogs and Yemeni papers that cite quotes from special interest people, not from any legitimate stats, AND THEY ALL CONFLICT WITH EACHOTHER!!!

Gregor, either prove your 50% claim, or STFU.

You f-ing liar!!! YOU BROUGHT UP DETROIT!!! I didn’t even come close to attempting to relating it with California liquor store ownership by Muslims. I simply pointed out that poor cities have high minority populations and ownership of businesses AFTER YOU FOR WHATEVER REASON MENTIONED DETROIT.

RightWinged on May 10, 2007 at 3:56 PM

My God! Are you that stupid? You just repeated exactly what I said. Let’s break it down into simple parts for you to understand.

You write:

YOU BROUGHT UP DETROIT!!!

I wrote:

you actually tried to relate Detroit to California Muslim ownership of liquor stores, even after I mocked you for it in advance.

I wrote:

you actually tried to relate Detroit to California Muslim ownership of liquor stores

You write:

(Interesting that you raise it though, because it is another poor city filling up with Muslims, among other minorities, which does add to my point about minorities flocking to the poor inner cities, and it just so happens that asians and middle easterners open a lot of businesses

And you wrote:

I didn’t even come close to attempting to relating it with California liquor store ownership by Muslims.

I’ll stand my ground. Sounds pretty much like you’re trying to relate the two.

Still waiting dufus.

You’re such a joke you actually tried to relate Detroit to California Muslim ownership of liquor stores, even after I mocked you for it in advance.

Still waiting for you to offer your evidence that what I said is incorrect. Still nothing from you at all.

Gregor on May 10, 2007 at 3:13 PM

You f-ing liar!!! YOU BROUGHT UP DETROIT!!! I didn’t even come close to attempting to relating it with California liquor store ownership by Muslims. I simply pointed out that poor cities have high minority populations and ownership of businesses AFTER YOU FOR WHATEVER REASON MENTIONED DETROIT.

I don’t need to offer you evidence, because I’m not making a claim on the percentage one way or another you POS. YOU need to prove your 50% claim that YOU made.

RightWinged on May 10, 2007 at 2:53 PM

You’re such a joke you actually tried to relate Detroit to California Muslim ownership of liquor stores, even after I mocked you for it in advance.

Still waiting for you to offer your evidence that what I said is incorrect. Still nothing from you at all.

Still waiting for either of you to produce just one source indicating Muslim ownership of liquor stores at less than 50%. And no. Quoting a million statistics referencing the rate of poverty in Detroit does not relate.

Gregor on May 10, 2007 at 11:58 AM

Who said anything about Detroit? (Interesting that you raise it though, because it is another poor city filling up with Muslims, among other minorities, which does add to my point about minorities flocking to the poor inner cities, and it just so happens that asians and middle easterners open a lot of businesses, wherever they are, but it’s obviously cheaper in the ghettos).

Anyway…

YOU made the 50%+ “guess/fact” claim, it’s on YOU to prove it. And pointing to Oakland (with quotes, not actual hard numbers, none of which agree with eachother) which is not even close to representative of California as a whole is utterly ridiculous. I’ve explained in detail why the Demographics matter, but you’re extremely dishonest, so you refuse to acknowledge why it matters. So don’t YOU come here and tell ME not to cite Detroit numbers (WHICH I NEVER DID YOU FRICKIN’ GENIUS), while putting forth numbers from Oakland that aren’t hard statistics, rather they’re quotes from special interest groups and they all conflict with each other!!!

Now Gregor, I’ll tell you this again, YOU made the 50% claim and haven’t backed it up at all, and those bogus Oakland numbers don’t matter, even if they had been accurate! I couldn’t care less if the number turns out to be 70%, it’s your dishonesty that’s pissing me off.

RightWinged on May 10, 2007 at 4:19 AM

right2bright on May 10, 2007 at 10:08 AM

LOL! Classic. Refuse to answer with a single relevant fact or source and then accuse the other of deflecting and using a liberal tactic. Sort of like Al Sharpton calling someone a racist to shut them down. Beautiful.

Still waiting for either of you to produce just one source indicating Muslim ownership of liquor stores at less than 50%. And no. Quoting a million statistics referencing the rate of poverty in Detroit does not relate.

I knew you couldn’t do it. So did you.

Did we just have a brokeback moment between rightwinged and not2bright?

RightWinged on May 10, 2007 at 4:19 AM

Wow…nice finish RightWinged, remind me not to debate you.

I was hoping not to have to go to real stats (like you so did so effectively) about Oakland and it representing California, pretty much obvious demographically, economically, socially, in just about every stat it does not reflect California…and you don’t have to use any gov. stats to know that.
One thing, don’t diss those “Yemeni papers” and reporters are known for their excellent and accurate reporting skills. You can tell by the writing style and the objective reporting that they are the NYT of Yemeni, why they are regular Pulitzer prize winners…and if angry they may inject something into your Hostess cupcake.

Gregor, seriously, just leave. I’m not going to repeat myself. I never said nor implied that “Muslim” was a race (this is called a diversion, liberals do it all the time. You want me to follow the tangent so we can get away from embarrassing you on earlier comments). So please stop playing dumb just so you don’t have to answer points. You, like a liberal, focus on just a few parts of my comment, while ignoring the full comment where you were owned from every angle. You know the point about the racial make-up of Oakland, because it’s cheaper to do business there, and minorities flock there. Hmmm.. interesting how you totally ignored that point so you could pull out your diversions. Just like you ignored me owning you on those “Oakland” stats not coming from any study or survey, but from statements of special interest groups and from a Yemeni paper.

Seriously, why don’t you just give this up? You keep making an ass out of yourself over and over.

Anyway, I have now proven to you that Oakland isn’t representative of CA simply based on racial make-up and median income.

RightWinged on May 10, 2007 at 2:44 AM

That was really impressive. It must have taken you forever. Unfortunately, absolutely nothing we’re debating has ANYTHING to do with racial make-up of the population. We are debating liquor store ownership. Being that the city I live in is close to 80% white, yet the Muslim ownership of our liquor stores is approaching 100% … I believe it’s a pretty good indication that the statistics you’re attempting to relate have absolutely no connection to the discussion. Nowhere in your post is there any mention at all of Muslim business ownership.

It might also be pointed out that “Muslim” is not a race. Duh.

But nice try. I guess next time I’m debating which pizza parlor has better business, I can include numbers from steak houses too.

What I am “smart enough” to do is copy and past your original comment again to make a fool of you. Let’s take a trip down memory lane.

RightWinged on May 10, 2007 at 2:44 AM

Wow! That’s a neat trick. Simply leave out the proceeding sentence from my comment and completely change the context.

That would be THIS one:

“I simply said they are quickly obtaining control of our food supply, which is silly to even debate.”

What a jackass.

Gregor on May 10, 2007 at 2:35 AM

Lol, seriously Gregor, do you hear yourself? Give it up guy. You would probably have more fun at a NAFTA conspiracy theory site, seriously.

So, to use your theory … YOU just made the claim that “Oakland isn’t representative of most of California.” So, I guess it’s up to you to prove that claim?

I would hope you’re smart enough to realize how ridiculous that is. How exactly would you prove that claim?

I will prove that claim right now. Let’s start with population – Just over 1% of Californians reside in Oakland (roughly 400k of 33 million). California’s median household income is $49k, Oakland’s is $40.

142k blacks reside in Oakland, and only 125k whites, 60k asians, and 46k “other” (obiviously we’re talking about virtually all hispanics here, because there are others in the breakdown but they are much smaller numbers and hispanic isn’t mentioned).

So we’re clear, 36% black, 31% white, 15% asian, 12% other (likely hispanic), and the other 6% Pacific Islands, etc. As with all other large metropolitan areas, Oakland (the sixth largest by population apparently) is very diverse, and full of a lot of slums and poor people of various races. This is standard across the country, if it’s a minority neighborhood, it’s likely poor. Due to this, running businesses is often cheaper. It’s also smart business to own things like liquor stores in ghettos by the way, but I’m not going to get all Boyz in the Hood on you.

Now, those numbers I cited were from 2000, but you can assume they’re roughly the same today… I pulled them from a site that I can provide a link for if necessary, but I’m going to be light on links to keep from tripping the spam filter.

Anyway, Wikipedia has actually done the breakdown for me on the 2005 figures for California as a whole:

According to the 2005 US Census Bureau California’s population is 60.9% White American, 6.1% Black or African American, 12.4% Asian American, 16.4% some other race, 0.7% American Indian, 3.1% mixed race. 35.5% are Hispanic or Latino (of any race). 43.3% of the population are non-Hispanic whites.

let’s compare that to the Oakland numbers I cited above shall we?

So we’re clear, 36% black, 31% white, 15% asian, 12% other (likely hispanic), and the other 6% Pacific Islands, etc.

Yeah, 6% and 36% black are the same, and 60% and 31% white are the same… right? I think I’ve made my point, so I won’t waste much more time on this… The point is immigrants and other races congregate in metropolitan areas, and it stands to reason that stores in Oakland would be minority owned. It just so happens blacks and hispanics aren’t great at starting businesses (statistics wise), but Asians and Middle Easterners are… And by the way, not a lot of white guys want to run a liquor store in the hood.

Oh and I almost forgot to ask you… do you have any reputable source for the statement that the liquor stores are primarily owned by Muslims? You linked to 3 sources, all of whom don’t agree, and are questionable at best.

And oh by the way you dishonest turd, you left this quote out of the one reputable source you cited on Oakland’s Muslim owned liquor store figures:

Coalition members said 90 percent of Oakland’s 350 liquor outlets are owned by Muslims, but Mohamed put the figure between 50 and 60 percent.

Honest mistake I’m sure? You linked to a blog, a Yemeni newspaper, etc…. but you didn’t give any actual statistics. Just people speaking and claiming certain figures.. AND NONE OF THEM AGREED! 70%, 80%, 90%? Which is it? Doesn’t matter, so long as it helps the insanely dishonest Gregor push his agenda while dodging the bet he asked for with right2bright!

Anyway, I have now proven to you that Oakland isn’t representative of CA simply based on racial make-up and median income. The gist is minorities gravitate to inner cities, but there’s a lot more to California than inner cities.

There’s no way for me to prove an official and exact percentage any more than you can. That’s why I stated very clearly in my comment that the percentage was a guess. I also hope you’re smart enough to be able to read my comment and figure out that my “fact” claim was referring to the reality that Muslims are buying up all the liquor stores, gas stations, and fast food restaurants.

Gregor on May 10, 2007 at 1:36 AM

What I am “smart enough” to do is copy and past your original comment again to make a fool of you. Let’s take a trip down memory lane.

In California, I think it would be fair to guess that at least 60% or more of all liquor stores, fast food restaurants, pizza restaurants, motels, and gas stations are owned by Muslims. I am not dreaming this. It’s a fact.

Gregor on May 8, 2007 at 2:40 PM

As I said at the time, I’m going to win Powerball! I just found out that a guess is the same as a fact.

Recap: I didn’t really care if 50% did own them, my point was you mixing facts with guesses in the same sentence. Something you still can’t admit was stupid. Next, I’ve proven your sources were questionable, and the figures not actually based on any reporting or census taking, but on interest groups making comments and none of the figures agreed.. We’ve got a range of opinions about Muslim liquor store ownership in Oakland ranging from 50-90% (and this doesn’t even take in to account folks who may not even practice their religion after coming from Yemeni, as selling liquor would be against their religion). So, I’ve proven you to be dishonest with those links and your assertion that they contain “facts”. You’ve challenged right2bright to a bet, which he’s begged you to follow through on, but you refuse to because you know you’re dead wrong. I’ve shown you that Oakland isn’t even close to being representative of California, despite you claiming it was an impossibility, and I barely even tried. Gregor, just take your licking and move on.

not2bright on May 9, 2007 at 10:01 PM

Amazing. A post of that size and not a single fact in your entire comment? Impressive.

Am I missing something? I’m the one who put the bet out there and you’re pretending to be waiting for ME to accept it? Baffling. And you’re claiming that it was YOU’RE offer? Just how arrogant are you? Just go back to sleep already. You know damn well you’re wrong. You also know damn well that I could post stats and links all night long, consisting of every city in California and you would claim it doesn’t prove anything, while offering absolutely zero information of your own. What a clown.

It’s interesting that I can post seven or eight sources, all listing liquor store ownership in the Bay Area as being between 80% – 90% of the over 350 total stores, and you say that doesn’t mean anything. I wonder why it is you can’t post a single source of information.

Is the Bay Area PROOF that the entire state has similar numbers? Of course not. But do you have a single piece of information that offers ANY suggestion that it’s NOT representative?

Go ahead. I’ll let you post all week long. You can have the thread all to yourself until you can find SOMETHING to support your claim that less than 50% of California liquor stores are owned by Muslims. It can’t be THAT hard, can it? Just one? Anything? Good luck. I’m pulling for you.

Until then, I’m done. I refuse to respond to anything other than an actual statistic and source.

Gregor on May 10, 2007 at 1:36 AM

Gregor, you are now stating that Oakland demographics represent all of California?

Let me see…what is the hispanic population of Oakland compared to all of California? What is the black population of Oakland as compared to all of California?

Some things are so obvious, you don’t need stats to prove them.

reality that Muslims are buying up all the liquor stores, gas stations, and fast food restaurants.

Note the word all. Better drive through Garden Grove and meet all of those Muslims with the last name of Nyugen.

Had a little problem in the ol’ statistics class huh Gregor?

YOU made the initial claim Gregor, and it’s up to you to support your statistic that, as you recall, you “guessed” and called it a “fact” in the same line.

And Oakland statistics mean nothing. You don’t have to be a genius to understand that Oakland isn’t representative of most of California.

RightWinged on May 9, 2007 at 8:09 PM

So, to use your theory … YOU just made the claim that “Oakland isn’t representative of most of California.” So, I guess it’s up to you to prove that claim?

I would hope you’re smart enough to realize how ridiculous that is. How exactly would you prove that claim?

There’s no way for me to prove an official and exact percentage any more than you can. That’s why I stated very clearly in my comment that the percentage was a guess. I also hope you’re smart enough to be able to read my comment and figure out that my “fact” claim was referring to the reality that Muslims are buying up all the liquor stores, gas stations, and fast food restaurants.

Gregor on May 9, 2007 at 6:53 PM

Thanks RightWinged (although he thinks we are the same. Listen Gregor, first I did not insult you (and get original, every liberal troll has used that not2bright stuff already). Second, as stated, you are the one making the claim and you back it up with a couple of news story’s from Oakland. Googling is not the answer to all questions, common sense is needed.

If just a small portion of liquor store owners were to inject specific chemicals into various food items throughout the country, over a long time period such as a year, then we’re talking about the possibility of hundreds of thousands dead or sick. Depending on the chemical, we could be looking at sicknesses and birth defects which could pass through generations.

Does anyone believe this family didn’t take the opportunity to use the pizzas to poison customers? What sort of chemicals might the customers have been eating along with their dinner? Muslims are very quickly gaining complete control over this country’s entire food supply.

would actually be willing to place a very high financial wager with you that the number is actually HIGHER than 50%. Would you like to take that bet?

I’m not sure what city you live in, but this is becoming normal throughout most of the country. The next time you buy your kid a pack of Hostess donuts at the local gas station, you might want to think about how easy it would be to stick a needle through the plastic.

think it would be fair to guess that at least 60% or more of all liquor stores, fast food restaurants, pizza restaurants, motels, and gas stations are owned by Muslims. I am not dreaming this. It’s a fact.

I’m speaking of the ‘long term’ poisoning of

the food sold in liquor stores with chemicals which might take years to have an impact. Chemicals which cause cancer or birth defects. Or, how about sterility.

…then we’re talking about the possibility of hundreds of thousands dead or sick. Depending on the chemical, we could be looking at sicknesses and birth defects which could pass through generations.
Sometimes it is best to review some of the important things you have stated.

My offer still stands, a bet. I am not going to give you any information until you make the bet. But I will give you a hint the CGA (figure it out, you are the food expert) has enough stats on their memebers to prove your statements are inaccurate.

And it must make you feel secure to name call behind a keyboard…

LOL! You make me laugh not2bright. I’ve posted link after link after link and yet you haven’t blessed us with a single offer of anything to back up your claim that I am wrong. How many times have I asked you for even ONE bit of evidence, and you simply ignore it and offer us your word.

It’s apparent that I could list 400 pages of evidence and you would continue to say “prove it.” I know how your kind works.

Still waiting.

Gregor on May 9, 2007 at 6:53 PM

I know you and right2bright have your own thing going here… but I have to say, YOU made the initial claim Gregor, and it’s up to you to support your statistic that, as you recall, you “guessed” and called it a “fact” in the same line. And Oakland statistics mean nothing. You don’t have to be a genius to understand that Oakland isn’t representative of most of California.

Mellen on May 9, 2007 at 7:15 PM

What do you propose we do Mellen? Let the Democrats take the reigns?

right2bright on May 9, 2007 at 4:37 PM

LOL! You make me laugh not2bright. I’ve posted link after link after link and yet you haven’t blessed us with a single offer of anything to back up your claim that I am wrong. How many times have I asked you for even ONE bit of evidence, and you simply ignore it and offer us your word.

It’s apparent that I could list 400 pages of evidence and you would continue to say “prove it.” I know how your kind works.

Still waiting.

Gregor on May 8, 2007 at 4:34 PM

My offer of a bet is still on, you say a great majority are muslim owned in California, and you say you have all of the stats to back it up. My offer of a bet is still on, any amount to the winners favorite charity. You quote stats for Oakland, you think that Oakland represents Calif. put up your money.
I will send a check to AP, we will let him hold the money.

The muslims do not want to control the food business, even one of your articles you quote states that this is an “easy”, (they sell to their own and can make a living…a cash living) way to start a business, and they want to move on. The Koreans in L.A. did the same thing, it is hard long hours work, and they are willing to do it. The Caldeans in San Diego, same thing, the Armenians in Montebello, same thing, Vietnamese in Garden Grove, same thing. Textiles used to be (a hundred years ago) the entry level into business, now it is food. The Chinese in Cali-Mex and Mexi-Cali, same thing.
Oakland is Oakland, a large population of Muslims, try Monteray Park, Santa Ana, Long Beach, Santa Barbara, Sacramento. It reminds me of the panic a couple of decades ago of the Japanese buying all of the real estate in L.A. “They are going to own L.A.” was the cry, and a few years later they were selling at a discount.

Neighborhood stores are one thing, chains are another, what chain of liquor or food stores are Muslim owned?

You won’t take my bet (I guess you know you are wrong)…so on to other things.

I just don’t think gas stations and liquor stores are connected to that in any way.

RightWinged on May 9, 2007 at 2:15 PM

Why? You’re telling me that THESE guys, who are preparing for war against Americans and happen to own a liquor store, would not take advantage of such an opportunity? If they want to kill Americans and believe it is their duty as Muslims, what would be the reason they would NOT use the food product as a weapon? I just find it IMPOSSIBLE to believe the same people who would stockpile weapons, bomb airports, and cut off heads would believe it off limits to spike a pack of donuts with something that will give a kid leukemia in ten years without anyone ever know what caused it.