Breaking: Feds bust six in NJ plot to murder troops at Fort Dix; Update: At least three are illegal aliens; Update: Suspects ID’d, complaint added
posted at 8:18 am on May 8, 2007 by Allahpundit
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No word yet on whether they’re freelance or part of a cell, but there’s a presser scheduled for this afternoon at 2:30.
Six people were arrested on Monday in connection with an alleged plot to murder as many soldiers as possible at Fort Dix, according to various media sites.
The men, ethnic Albanians, allegedly attempted to purchase automatic weapons from an arms dealer working with the FBI and were arrested in New Jersey after officials learned of the plans, a law enforcement source said…
Officials raided the homes of the men, described as Islamic radicals, and said there is video showing some of the alleged planning.
Standby for updates.
Update: The article originally described them as “ethnic Albanians” but now it’s been updated to say they’re from what used to be Yugoslavia. By way of background, AQ has been working for awhile on recruiting “white Muslims” from Bosnia to stage attacks in the west because they blend in better in western societies.
Update: Looks like they were most interested in military targets, which makes me suspect they weren’t part of AQ:
Investigators told Newschannel 4’s Jonathan Dienst that these arrests are the result of a tip to the FBI and use of an informant to track the suspects. The terror suspects traveled over the last several months from New Jersey to the Poconos where they practiced firing automatic weapons, investigators said.
Investigators said the group discussed targeting numerous locations like Dover Air base, Fort Monmouth and several Coast Guard stations before deciding on Fort Dix as their intended target. Fort Dix is run in part by the Army and is a reserve-training center, but active units take part in training, including some which focuses on counter-terrorism.
Update: Details galore from the Newark Star-Ledger:
The would-be attackers, ethnic Albanians who had been under surveillance by the FBI for months, practiced by shooting paintball guns and real weapons in a rural area of the Poconos, one source said. They also allegedly watched jihadist videos in which Osama bin Laden urged them toward martyrdom.
“They were prepared to die,” said the law enforcement source. “We became increasingly convinced this was for real and these guys were ready to roll.”…
The men – several of whom were in the same family – had videotaped their practice sessions in the Poconos, the source said. That videotape, in which they railed against America, led to their arrests.
The men made the mistake of bringing it to a retail store seeking to get a copy burned to a DVD, according to one of the sources. A store employee who later watched the tape called the FBI who began immediately investigating.
Needless to say, that last detail also makes me think they’re not AQ.
Update: ABC News has a teaser up about one of the suspects being a pizza delivery man who had access to the base.
Update: Three of the men were brothers. I wonder how they hooked up with the other three.
Three high-level law enforcement sources told ABC News that the investigation into the plot had been ongoing for 15 months. Four of the six suspects were born in Yugoslavia, one was born in Jordan and the other in Turkey. All were U.S. residents…
[Fort Dix] was chosen because one cell member’s family owned a pizza parlor near the base and that member was able to enter the base to deliver pizza. The group believed this access would enable its attack to succeed.
Update: No ties to any international terror groups, according to CBS News. It was homegrown.
Update: Fox News updates its report with a quote from source saying they’re all recent converts. Really? The guys from Jordan and Turkey, too?
Update: Spruiell issues a broad strata alert after catching a few cops — and CNN, of course — politely ignoring the organizing principle here.
Update: Just across on Fox News — at least three of the suspects are here illegally, which contradicts ABC News’s report that all were U.S. residents. Reuters doesn’t give a number but quotes a spokesman from the U.S. Attorney’s office as corroborating Fox’s report. Some are illegal, some are U.S. citizens.
Update: MM sends the link to the criminal complaint (in PDF form). The suspects:
Dritan Duka (illegal alien)
Eliver Duka (illegal alien)
Shain Duka (illegal alien)
Serdar Tatar
Mohamad Shnewer
Agron Abdullahu
Update: On page 7 of the complaint, it says 10 men were identified in the DVD shot at the training camp. Shnewer appears to have been the ringleader; Abdullahu may or may not have been a sniper in Kosovo. Fort Dix hosted several thousand Albanian refugees from Kosovo in 1999.
Update: On page 21, there’s a reference to attacking American warships docked in the port of Philadelphia followed by some talk of training for overseas jihad, then followed on the next page by the bright idea to wage jihad right here at home — including possibly joining the military so that they could frag people instead. They were keen on getting AK-47s too, and there’s a mention of rocket-propelled grenades towards the end.
Update: According to CBS News, Shnewer is from Jordan and is the lone U.S. citizen of the six; Tatar, from Turkey, and Abdallahu, from the former Yugoslavia, are legal permanent residents. The Duka brothers are also from Yugoslavia and, as previously mentioned, are here illegally.
Update: Here we go with this Orwellian crap already:
The description of the suspects as “Islamic militants” renewed fears in New Jersey’s Muslim community. Hundreds of Muslim men from New Jersey were rounded up and detained by authorities in the months following the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, but none was connected to that plot.
“If these people did something, then they deserve to be punished to the fullest extent of the law,” said Sohail Mohammed, a lawyer who represented scores of detainees after the 2001 attacks. “But when the government says ‘Islamic militants,’ it sends a message to the public that Islam and militancy are synonymous.
“Don’t equate actions with religion,” he said.
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Gregor, can you please resign your membership to this site? You’re an embarrassment. It’s one thing when our few resident liberals say idiotic things (that’s expected), but you make the rest of us look bad.
Wow! Guessing is now considering stating facts! Point me to the local seller of Powerball tickets! I’m going to be a millionaire!
Gregor, quick question, just to gauge what type of cat you are… Do you believe that we’re on the verge of creating a North American Union, and that there are secret plans to build a NAFTA Superhighway, 4 football fields wide, going from Canada to Mexico?
RightWinged on May 8, 2007 at 3:02 PM
Quoting a liberal is considered by liberals to be hate speech.
RedWinged Blackbird on May 8, 2007 at 3:02 PM
RedWinged Blackbird,
I’m starting to think that just allowing a liberal to think ought to be a thought crime………
Rock on……………..
doriangrey on May 8, 2007 at 3:10 PM
Let me be first to beat any headline reader or news person giving a tease before a break and say:
“Federal agents arrested six men for plotting a terrorist attack on Fort Dix. The only dix on this fort appear to be the terrorists themselves”
Okay, it’s not polished, and no real news person would ever actually say something like that… But maybe Gutfeld?
RightWinged on May 8, 2007 at 3:14 PM
Can you stop shamelessly plugging your site?
RightWinged on May 8, 2007 at 3:15 PM
What the loony libs are missing is that ANY attack on ANY military installation IN THE USofA would be seen as a HUGE success for the terrorists reagrdless of how many casualties there were.
They would also condemn Bush, call for investigations, and blame it on the US for resisting terrorism abroad.
csdeven on May 8, 2007 at 3:17 PM
Answer: yes. But that topic should be its own thread. (attn: AP, Ian, Bryan) Not meaning to hijack the thread, but this is a primary reason Bush is so hesitant to close the borders.
pullingmyhairout on May 8, 2007 at 3:33 PM
My comment was specifically addressed to the ranting Gregor, but AP has just thrown up a post for you to go freak out about the potential of a Transatlantic Superhighway.
RightWinged on May 8, 2007 at 3:38 PM
Gee, what a shock! Muslims who want to kill
Tim Burton on May 8, 2007 at 3:46 PM
Of course they would – as I’ve learned in this very thread, resisting terrorists create more terrorists. America’s fault.
See, what we should do (as I have learned herein) is to not resist the terrorists, that way we won’t make them mad and then they will just go away and not bother us because the only reason there are terrorists in the first place is because us evil, imperialistic Americans resist terrorists. If we would just stop resisting the terrorist then there wouldn’t be any terrorists in the first place.
Logic – it’s not just for anointed, uber-sophisticated worldy liberals anymore.
thirteen28 on May 8, 2007 at 3:46 PM
If I were to accurately state my opinion of you on this thread, it would most likely cause Allah to take care of my resignation from the blog for me, but I won’t give you that satisfaction. I will state however, that you don’t appear to be too bright. How about giving me some sort of indication that you have ANY evidence that what I say is false? I’d love to hear it. Do you live in California? I do. Have you ever been to California? Have you ever entered a California liquor store? If so, what percentage of the time would you estimate those stores are owned by Muslims? I used the term “I guess” because I obviously do not know an EXACT percentage. Do you? I would actually be willing to place a very high financial wager with you that the number is actually HIGHER than 50%. Would you like to take that bet?
Take the bet dufus. Make some quick cash.
Gregor on May 8, 2007 at 3:48 PM
RightWinged,
Ummm, let me see….No..(that is of course provided a tagline doesnt violate HotAir policy)..That’s why it’s called a shameless plug……Furthermore and most importantly does my shameless plug cause you or anyone else any real harm? Oddly enough the answer again is No. Now to take this just one step further, does my shameless plug violate any known netiquette? Again since taglines are as old and accepted as the internet itself the answer is No. Lastly does my shameless plug in any way distract from either my posts or the posts of anyone else, the answer is getting rather redundant.
Rock on……………..
doriangrey on May 8, 2007 at 3:57 PM
I will take that bet, after 59 years in California, and many decades in the food distribution business, I will wager any amount of money that not over 50% of food (or liquor) stores are owned by muslims.
Any amount, I will even make it easy, any amount to any charity of the winners choice.
right2bright on May 8, 2007 at 4:02 PM
As for doriangrey, be nicer. Stop being a troll with that “rock on” stuff.
Bryan on May 4, 2007 at 2:24 PM
Slublog on May 8, 2007 at 4:04 PM
the ABC link above makes it sound like these terrorists just good ol’ American boys gone bad. There is a connection,ISLAMAFASCISM. FRICKIN DHIMMI’S!!!
Lets put the 6 in prison, feed them nothing but pork (the other white meat) until the terrorists die, then ground up the hogs into halal burgers and feed the terrorists ingested hogs turned burgers to the mo followers at Gitmo.
When word of that gets around, maybe they will think twice about fvking with us.
sorry about the fword, but I am pissed.
shooter on May 8, 2007 at 4:05 PM
Gregor, that all went over your head (as you call me not to bright). You “guessed” (your words) and then told everyone that you aren’t just dreaming it’s a “fact”. The point was, guessing isn’t fact reporting. Perhaps in your world it is, but not for the rest of us. You obviously don’t even get the joke about Powerball (judging by your response). If a guess is a fact, then my guess at the Powerball numbers guarantees I’m a winner! And why did you sidestep the NAFTA superhighway question?
And I will argue, briefly, about the food supply, even though that wasn’t my point. My point was you embarass us when you talk about terrorists sticking needles in donuts. Give me a fricken’ break, the idea that sickos did this to Halloween candy is an old wives tail, but yeah, it’s the new terrorist MO. In the name of Allah, we’re going to make a kid stick a needle in his mouth and perhaps bleed a bit, cause a scare that may in turn hurt the snack industry for a short period of time!
But that’s at the retail level anyway, not “food supply”. The “food supply” is actually controlled more by illegal Mexicans than it is by Muslims. A guy owning a liquor store is quite different than a guy canning or picking vegetables. And when was the last time you saw Mohammad running a butcher shop, grindin’ up some beef? Do you think a lot of Muslims work factory grunt jobs making beer?
Anyway, keep on guessing the facts for us Gregor!
Guy, the point is that you’re spamming and it’s annoying. You already get a link from your user name. That’s not enough? There are many of us who have blogs and other monetized sites that don’t end each post by spamming with our link, especially when we already get one just by our user name.
RightWinged on May 8, 2007 at 4:08 PM
Dude, you’ve totally cracked.
Bad Candy on May 8, 2007 at 4:08 PM
Heh, good catch Slu. I would have been surprised if no one had warned him. I’m sure AP doesn’t approve if he’s aware. I can’t say I haven’t linked to my blog in the past, when I was linking to a specific post related to a given issue. But I don’t post a link to my home page or any of my marketing sites with a tag line every time I comment.
RightWinged on May 8, 2007 at 4:11 PM
Actually, yes. Yes to most of your narcissistic justifications. The harm is by ruining a decent place, by dumbing down a good site, by not caring about others.
It’s rude , it’s selfish, it’s annoying, it’s so last decade, it’s a huffpo tactic and it’s just NOT welcome.
And it just might be against the policy of HA, as of yet you’re the first to pursue your selfishness to this extent.
Anyway, you’re just not welcome in doing so. Why do you persist after numerous hints? Are you the one who shows up uninvited to a party? Stays longest, eats the most, drinks the most and leaves nothing in the way of monetary help? Is that you Dgray? rhymes w/…?
shooter on May 8, 2007 at 4:16 PM
I don’t eat anything coming from a gas station anyway, and it has nothing to do with muslims.
…wait, wait… I still can’t get over it… the food supply? By taking over Shell stations and Wendy’s? Really? Kentucky Fried Chicken and Taco Bell and Chevron… Is that our food supply these days?
Two possibilities assuming this is true. Either 1) Muslims are completely retarded, or 2) America is filled with more lazy fatass beach-whales than I thought. Both are entirely likely, but neither actually proves your Protocols of the Elders of Mecca theory.
Lehosh on May 8, 2007 at 4:32 PM
shooter,
Let’s see, that would be no, no, no and no. Unless the management says otherwise it really isn’t your place to dictate policy here now is it. If I were posting on your site I would abide by the rules of your site. Unless I am profoundly mistaken this isn’t your site, moreover last time I checked it wasn’t Diggs either. As to your views on netiquette, perhaps you should do a little research on netiquette before commenting on internet practices that have been around since the very earliest days of the internet.
doriangrey on May 8, 2007 at 4:32 PM
It seems you walk through life with blindfolds. Good luck with that. Still waiting on ANY stats to support your claim that I’m wrong, other than you simply … saying so. I can post stats to support my stance all day long.
Well over 80% of the 350 liquor stores in Oakland are owned or operated by “Muslims.”
“On a personal level, there’s a lot of guilt they’re selling a substance that’s against their belief,” said Mohamed, who represents more than half the city’s liquor store owners, most of whom are Muslim. “At the same time, they have made an investment.”
“Yemenis hold close to 70 percent of Oakland’s 373 liquor store licenses.”
“over 90 percent of Oakland’s 350 liquor stores are owned or operated by Muslims”
Gregor on May 8, 2007 at 4:34 PM
Hey, its gone. Good on you dorian, much better.
Bwahahahaha!
Bad Candy on May 8, 2007 at 4:40 PM
Don’t see how that rules it out. It’s not like these guys are criminal masterminds. One of the ‘93 WTC bombers rented the Ryder truck under his own name. And Atta and his stupid little buddies went to a strip club the night before…
Jim Treacher on May 8, 2007 at 4:41 PM
Dgrey, I’ve been in the IT field for 12 years. I’ve been a commenter on HA since day one. You’re mooching just doesn’t fit here. No one asked you to leave, just show a little respect for the thousands of hours these people put into hotair. And that’s on top of what Michelle has accomplished which is way more than I could even list. So, if you need her to carry you, just ask her.
As far as Digg goes, if thats where you get your info….well, I give up.
shooter on May 8, 2007 at 4:44 PM
Why is that such a big deal? Should people be denied the right to establish a business based upon their ethnicity or religion?
Slublog on May 8, 2007 at 4:45 PM
Gregor on May 8, 2007 at 4:34 PM
nice job!
shooter on May 8, 2007 at 4:46 PM
shooter,
So what you are saying is that this is your site and you do get to set the standards and rules, glad we got that cleared up.
doriangrey on May 8, 2007 at 4:46 PM
What he’s saying is that you’d be surprised how easily you can stick a needle into a bottle of Jack.
Lehosh on May 8, 2007 at 4:48 PM
Oh and shooter with regards to your 12 years in IT BFD……..I’ve been at this a lot longer than that……
doriangrey on May 8, 2007 at 4:50 PM
doriangrey, your screen name serves as your tagline. Hope that helps!
Jim Treacher on May 8, 2007 at 4:51 PM
Yeah, and then he’ll give them some swell patches to wear…
Bad Candy on May 8, 2007 at 4:52 PM
Treacher, you always make me laugh.
Bad Candy on May 8, 2007 at 4:53 PM
Jim Treacher,
Yea, I know, but I’m old school. It just doesnt feel like a proper tagline. As that article I posted a snip from points out I have been doing this online thing for a long time. Old habits die hard I guess.
Napster and the indy musician
doriangrey on May 8, 2007 at 4:57 PM
This is meant to be a joke, right? There’s certainly plenty of room to criticize both social Darwinism and Communism, but the two notions didn’t exactly swap any spit, if you catch my drift.
Blacklake on May 8, 2007 at 5:10 PM
You forgot to mention that pesky little fact that the same poll listed 22% of all voters believe this, which leaves several million republicans who believe in fantasy conspiracy theories.
You must have also been terribly disappointed that some of the terrorists were white instead of black, given your repeated angst about black people and Obama in particular.
Can’t make the call to round up all Muslims and arabs now can you?
Is Robert Byrd your uncle?
Bradky on May 8, 2007 at 5:30 PM
Lol, seriously. Aside from that being gross, a gas station is hardly “food supply” (as explained earlier)
So Oakland represents all of California right now? As I said, I’m not even arguing about what the actual number is (others can feel free to, I just don’t find it interesting). My point was you “guessed” and claimed it to be “fact”, which was stupid, and now you’re trying to support your claims about the state of California by pointing to Oakland.? Lol! And again, the more important point is that gas stations and liquor stores are hardly “the food supply”. The “food supply” is where food is picked, prepared, slaughtered, packaged, and sent out to the retail stores. Smarten up.
Dorian, you obviously missed Slublog’s comment earlier where he dug up something interesting:
on May 4, 2007 at 2:24 PM
Slublog on May 8, 2007 at 4:04 PM
Is Bryan management enough for you? And don’t try to play semantics and say he just didn’t like “rock on”, he was clearly referring to your spamming.
RightWinged on May 8, 2007 at 5:32 PM
Raaaaace card!
I can’t speak for RW, but I wouldn’t go throwing that name around. He’s yours.
Slublog on May 8, 2007 at 5:44 PM
Oh Okay.
csdeven on May 8, 2007 at 5:45 PM
RightWinged,
Yes but what Slublog’s rather disingenuous post failed to point out was that I asked Bryan straight up if there was a policy against my tagline and informed him that if there were I would drop the tagline. Bryan never responded.
It is rather comforting to see that HotAir does have its own DKos Nazi’s(You shooter and Slublog) who make public policy standards for this place based upon what you think is right, never mind what the management might actually think.
Now answer this straight up. Do you shooter or Slublog have the right to set policy here. If not why are you attempting to do so? If you dare in all of your vainglorious hypocritical conceit think my adding a tagline to my post denigrates this place compared to your usurping the authority of the management then you have some serious issues.
doriangrey on May 8, 2007 at 5:46 PM
DKos Nazi’s, huh?
Well, you certainly have a way with insults.
No, I don’t think your tagline denigrates the site. I just find it annoying.
Slublog on May 8, 2007 at 5:48 PM
Slublog,
Now answer this straight up. Do you shooter or Slublog have the right to set policy here. If not why are you attempting to do so?
doriangrey on May 8, 2007 at 5:50 PM
None of us were trying to set policy – we were simply pointing out that you annoyed us.
Get over yourself.
Slublog on May 8, 2007 at 5:52 PM
That’s actually a lie, as evidenced by your own words …
Actually, not true again. The fact that I stated in my comment that the number was a guess is a pretty good indication that I wasn’t claiming the specific number was a fact. I was stating that it is a fact that Muslims are buying up all the businesses in the categories that I mentioned. Again, would you please show some evidence that this is not true. Do you have anything at all? Anything other than your opinion? I’m still waiting. It’s been all day now and you’ve come up with nothing. That’s some fine work.
Gregor on May 8, 2007 at 5:54 PM
This thread needs a hug.
SouthernDem on May 8, 2007 at 5:56 PM
The site operators don’t always have time to respond to comments, I’m sure we’ve all experienced this. But what you’re now saying is that you acknowledge that Bryan told you to stop spamming his site, yet you continue to do so simply because he didn’t notify you of a specific policy against it? Wow.
And Nazis? Are you kidding me? We’re just pointing out your obnoxious spam. If I wanted to be a d*ck I’d be emailing the fellas and complaining about it. I figured I’d just comment to you here and assumed you’d stop… but again, despite being specifically asked to stop by Bryan, you refuse to do so unless he puts it in the ToS.
By the way, why have you yet to acknowledge that you don’t need a tagline when you get a free link via your user name? That’s not good enough for you?
And just for sh*ts and giggles:
http://hotair.com/about/termsofuse
Nighty night.
RightWinged on May 8, 2007 at 5:58 PM
This thread needs an enema.
csdeven on May 8, 2007 at 5:59 PM
right2bright and I are 2 different people genius. I expect your apology to be posted here when I get back home. And again, if anyone is lying it’s you by calling your “guesses” (your own word) “facts” in the same sentence.
RightWinged on May 8, 2007 at 6:00 PM
So the battle for absolute moral authority on this issue is to be settled by who’s been on the internet the longest, is it, dgrey?
You might notice that you, and you alone, are the only one using a tag line in that format on this site?
It’s not going to be fun for you to have to eat crow and back down in the face of the beating you’re taking, but we’ll all give you credit if you man up and do it.
TexasDan on May 8, 2007 at 6:00 PM
Doesn’t matter, they have the right to own liquor stores in Oakland. My guess is that Koreans or some other immigrants owned them before the current people do. Its new immigration, they always run little shops, its what immigrants do and have always done. Lemme ask, what would you do with these people?
Bad Candy on May 8, 2007 at 6:02 PM
I wrote a coment that essentially finished you doriengrey, but for some reason it’s hung up in moderation. Hopefully it will be posted soon, but I’ve got to take off.
Here’s the gist though… You acknowledge that Bryan (one of the site’s operators) told you to stop, yet you refused to do so because no one listed a specific policy you’re violating? Wow, classy dude.
And just for fun, from HotAir’s ToS:
We reserve the right to delete your comments or revoke your registration for any reason. Rarely, if ever, will we do so simply because we disagree with you. We will, however, usually do so if you post something that is, in our good-faith opinion, (a) off-topic; (b) libelous, defamatory, abusive, harassing, threatening, profane, ############, offensive, false, misleading, or which otherwise violates or encourages others to violate these terms of use or any law, including intellectual property laws; or (c) “spam,” i.e., an attempt to advertise, solicit, or otherwise promote goods and services.
RightWinged on May 8, 2007 at 6:02 PM
Both?
Bad Candy on May 8, 2007 at 6:03 PM
“without letting them control our lives and occupy our every thought” – JaHerer22, without any sarcasm, you have no idea what it means to have one’s “lives controlled and thoughts occupied”, unless someone dictates which kind of wine you buy/drink, or if they are available, which kind of coffee you favor, which kind of car you drive, if any, who you associate with, whom you share a joke with, what kind of joke it is, who extracts your teeth, and their nerves, live, whom you work for, and in what capacity, how much you get paid, not determined by you and your efforts, etc., all these being the lesser of the torture options.
And “awknowledge there is a middle ground” – so long as they wish to kill themselves, to kill us, there can’t be a middle ground.
Entelechy on May 8, 2007 at 6:03 PM
Slublog,
Are you always this intellectually dishonest. Contrary to your bald faced lie of an assertion otherwise setting policy is exactly what you guys were attempting to do. You weren’t simply stating that you found me annoying; you were in fact attempting to establish what behavior on my part is and is not acceptable here.
While I have no problem abiding by the policy set by the management, you are not the management and will not dictate to me what behavior is acceptable. For you to even attempt to do so is profoundly disrespectful not only to me, the other people who visit here but most importantly the management.
This is not a site like Diggs where those who post dictate to the management what policies the management should or will abide by. You guys seriously need to sit the f**k down and shut the f**k up and allow HotAir’s management to run this place as they see fit.
If you really feel an uncontrollable urge to set policy go set it at your own blog.
doriangrey on May 8, 2007 at 6:04 PM
LOL!
Funny stuff. Here’s your apology for that.
Gregor on May 8, 2007 at 6:05 PM
RightWinged,
This refers to HotAir’s management, NOT YOU. Don’t post back again until you are HotAir’s management.
doriangrey on May 8, 2007 at 6:09 PM
It’s a big deal because we buy our children candy, sodas, and food from these liquor stores and fast food restaurants, which are owned by members of an ideology which has sworn it’s members to an oath to kill us. Do all Muslims feel this way? Absolutely not. But the ideology does in fact hold them to that oath, whether or not they wish to participate. If some feel comfortable watching their 8 year old kid chow down on a donut sold to them by a Muslim, their welcome to it. And in California, it’s interesting to note that even the ice cream trucks are now being purchased by Muslims.
For those who cook every single meal at home, using food grown in your own garden … maybe they’re safe.
My opinion on the second question is that nobody should be discriminated against due to ethnicity, but ideology is an entirely different thing. Islam is not a religion. It’s an ideology of genocide. Knowing what you do now about Nazi Germany, would you suggest that Jews would have been wrong to warn other Jews against eating at a restaurant where the cooks are Nazis? What’s the difference here?
Really? You mean, it’s all safe then? I guess terrorists aren’t planning to target those.
Gregor on May 8, 2007 at 6:15 PM
Absolutely. Intellectual honesty is for chumps. I’m all about subvertin’ the dominant paradigm!
Funny. You, speaking of acceptable behavior. How many names have you called me, RightWinged and shooter? How many times did you toss personal insults at honora the other day? To quote that great sage Tony Soprano…those who want respect, give respect.
Touchy, touchy. I find that sort of talk…disrespectful.
How interesting.
Slublog on May 8, 2007 at 6:15 PM
Enema first, hug second?
csdeven on May 8, 2007 at 6:22 PM
It’s going to take a lot of soymilk, but okay.
Slublog on May 8, 2007 at 6:25 PM
Slublog,
Oddly enough I bet nobody finds this either humorous as you intend nor surprising.
Did I say anything that was untrue??? No thats right I didnt.
Funny how intellectually dishonesty works. Is it your place to decide anything here at all? No thats right it isnt. Go be a Nazi control freak on your own site. Allah or Bryan might decide that they agree with you, they might actually decide that they like the Digg’s model, where the guest’s make all of their decisions for them. But until then, you really dont have any business making decisions for them.
doriangrey on May 8, 2007 at 6:28 PM
This isn’t that kind of place.
SouthernDem on May 8, 2007 at 6:29 PM
Homework assignment – find where I tried to make decisions for them Where I told you, outright, to get rid of the tagline.
Slublog on May 8, 2007 at 6:29 PM
Slublog,
Man you really got a serious case of intellectually dishonesty.
doriangrey on May 8, 2007 at 6:32 PM
Refresh you memory any……….
doriangrey on May 8, 2007 at 6:34 PM
And this is where I bow out, as this has jacked enough thread for one night.
Adieu.
Slublog on May 8, 2007 at 6:34 PM
That was a quote, not a command.
Nice try, though.
Slublog on May 8, 2007 at 6:34 PM
I vote for banning every commenter who participated in this childish pissing contest.
RedWinged Blackbird on May 8, 2007 at 6:36 PM
Slublog,
Thats why it’s called intellectually dishonesty. You pretend that by quoting someone else that you are not responsible for what you posted……
doriangrey on May 8, 2007 at 6:38 PM
Are you seriously talking about disrespecting folks?
SouthernDem on May 8, 2007 at 6:38 PM
Some of you really are putting words in JaHerer22’s mouth. He didn’t say it wasn’t a real threat that should be dealt with, he said they were unorganized amateurs. That being said he totally misunderstands what that means.
Your strategic thinking is 100% backwards. They are more of a threat to us in disorganized grass root attacks. The nature of a free Republic makes us an easy target. It is easier for us to defeat them when we force them to organize into groups or can get them to operate out in the open. This is exactly what is hapening in Iraq and Afganistan now. We win whenever we get them to expose themselves. For U.S. citizens, a surge in grassroots terrorists like this is worse news then if Iran declared war on us tommorrow.
Resolute on May 8, 2007 at 6:43 PM
Heh.
Bad Candy on May 8, 2007 at 6:43 PM
You lose that bet. What do I win?
Lehosh on May 8, 2007 at 6:48 PM
Lehosh,
Front row seats to a long winded childish pissing contest…….
doriangrey on May 8, 2007 at 6:50 PM
Awesome!
Wait… center orchestra or side orchestra? I’ll be damned if I have to sit side orchestra and have the one fat woman with a hummingbird sized bladder scrambling over me every 5 minutes.
Lehosh on May 8, 2007 at 6:52 PM
No one is thanking Tony Soprano, when he informed Agent Harris in Last episode of the Sopranos. Amazing how a show that was filmed months ago prognosticates events today.
StuLongIsland on May 8, 2007 at 6:54 PM
Lehosh,
Oh center orchestra of course, but dont forget to wear your Gallager rain coat, just incase some of the children on stage start pissing in the orchestra pit……..
doriangrey on May 8, 2007 at 6:55 PM
Lehosh,
Oh BTW love your blog, I guess you’re to smart to let a certin like me post there though…….Sigh……
doriangrey on May 8, 2007 at 6:58 PM
It would seem terrorism is so much of making people scared as in making them fight each other.
eforhan on May 8, 2007 at 7:00 PM
I came back to read more about this very important topic…sheesh..Rightwing, Slublog, doriangrey, lehosh, gregor…really…enough already! This is not a far left liberal site…
CCRWM on May 8, 2007 at 7:05 PM
eforhan,
Whose fighting? Let’s see we have a minor childish pissing contest and a couple of slight disagreements.
doriangrey on May 8, 2007 at 7:11 PM
CCRWM,
Does this mean I have to pout and go stand in the corner now????
doriangrey on May 8, 2007 at 7:15 PM
There are more posts than I want to read before I lose this thought, so if someone(s) already said it, my apologies.
ONE of the (many) things that our liberal (and, admittedly, a few pseudo-conservative) ‘friends’ irritate me with is their belief that Osama Bin Ladin is (WAS; Personally I believe he is long dead) ‘the be all and end all of islamic terrorism’.
COMPLETE AND UTTER NONSENSE. Osama didn’t even chose the targets when he was ‘the leader’. He was merely the financier and ’spiritual leader’.
Zawahiri was in charge of plans, training and operations. He decided what the targets were, how and when to attack them. You people that call Bush an idiot for saying that he doesn’t put much thought into Bin Ladin any more are the idiots. About an hour after we determined that Osama ‘was responsible’ for 9-11 he ceased to be a significant threat.
Why? Because his only real operational value to the terrorists was the money he provided, and other than what he had ’stuffed in his mattress’ his personal fortune (from his incredibly wealthy family) was cut off.
Dead or alive. Osama just doesn’t matter anymore.
Al Quaeda is still a danger, obviously, because their ‘brain’ Zawahiri is still kicking and they have developed other sources of funding, but they are a mere shadow of their former power, spending more time running and hiding than anything else.
Even if Al Quaeda does get slaughtered to the last man, our problems with islamic terrorism are hardly over. There are at least six other muslim terror organizations out there that have financing equivalent or better than Al Quaeda’s; That are just as determined to slaughter Americans (and essentially all non-muslims, and even other muslims that ‘aren’t muslim enough’).
And tens of thousands of individual mosques, many here inside the USA, with imams that preach hatred of America and encourage ‘Sudden Jihad Syndrome’, even if they are not well organized terror cells.
Just one determined person, one who is not afraid to die, can do incredible damage, with minor training and minor resources, to our way of life. Even without directly killing anyone…. I’d better quit here… It ‘aint rocket surgery’ but I don’t want to give anyone any specific ideas.
Anyway, we ARE in a “Global War on Terror”, and even if ‘Osama’s Lads’ are wiped out to the last man; even if we pull out of Iraq, and never again ‘meddle in the affairs of muslim countries’ the threat, the danger to our way of life, our economy and our personal safety isn’t going to go away.
LegendHasIt on May 8, 2007 at 8:28 PM
JaHerer22: “But the whole idea and conduct of the GWOT has created a strict dichotomy of us vs them; America vs jihadists. Before there were a bunch of scattered, unrelated terrorist cells working to attack us. Now, we’ve effectively worked to put them under the same umbrella and practically encouraged them join forces and for a united front against us.”
Brilliant reasoning. By the same logic, we should have never declared war on Japan after Pearl Harbor because it just united Nazi Germany and Mussolini’s Italy against us in an Axis of evil. I guess that whole us versus them thing wasn’t the way to go, huh?
Or then again, maybe Europe would never have known a half century of peace if we did not hammer the bad guys until they unconditionally surrendered. Likewise, the racist tyranny of Japan would have remained a slave empire had we not nuked them into submission.
Maybe, just maybe, instead of us worrying about the Muslims attacking us, the murdering Muslim scum need to worry about us taking their war to them in a big way. If they want war, give them a belly full of it.
Tantor on May 8, 2007 at 8:43 PM
“Does this mean I have to pout and go stand in the corner now????
doriangrey on May 8, 2007 at 7:15 PM”
You know…it kind of felt like I was talking to my kids…
CCRWM on May 8, 2007 at 9:05 PM
Is it safe to come out of the shelter now?
baldilocks on May 8, 2007 at 9:35 PM
So, just so I’m clear….
doriangrey, the fact that you get a link back to your site via your user name isn’t good enough for you, you feel the need to spam this site with the same exact link attached to “Rock on…” everytime you post. Bryan has told you to stop, but because he didn’t respond again giving you a specific policy that you were violating, you won’t stop (and as we all know, the site operators don’t constantly read comments looking for questions to respond to). I went and found a policy that specifically applies to what you are doing, but because a site operator hasn’t presented that policy to you (because they have much more important things to do than deal with this), you still think you’re justified.
Wow.
As for Gregor… Again, all I originally took issue with you over, was when you used your “guess” (in your words) and told people it was “fact”. Even if your “guess” were to be right, that wasn’t the issue. I was simply pointing out the silliness of calling using “guess” and “fact” in the same sentence, referring to the same thing. I’m not even saying I don’t find the fact that Muslims own more and more businesses every day isn’t an issue. Likewise I find it scary that the Muslim population is growing at a much faster rate than any other worldwide. But when you’re talking about “food supply”, you’re talking about the things I mentioned – canneries, fields where vegetables are picked, bottling plants, etc. Even a warehouse is a better example than a gas station or a liquor store. To cause significant death, damage, or a scare, you need to hit it at the production level, not retail. Again, I don’t disagree with the vulnerability… but that you talk about things like putting needles through plastic and in to donuts.
RightWinged on May 8, 2007 at 10:08 PM
Cupcakes Slublog?….Childrens’ cupcakes?
Buck Turgidson on May 8, 2007 at 10:10 PM
Heh. I’m guessing you’re a fan of the movie. :-)
Slublog on May 8, 2007 at 10:14 PM
Back to the issue at hand, can anyone guess the feature that links these 6 men? The media is trying to minimize it
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070509/ap_on_re_us/fort_dix_plot_suspects_3
They gloss over once mentioning that they are Muslims in that article, so they can talk about the ordinary lives these paintball loving, former restaurant owning and working young men.
We’re in trouble. You can talk about “radical Islam” all day long, so you don’t offend those “good Muslims” (You know the ones that are the majority and are so good at taking a stand, condemning, and stamping out terrorism?). But the fact is they’re “muslims”, period. These guys weren’t running around dressed in traditional garb screaming about jihad and “allahuakbar”, they were “normal”.
I’m not here to say we need to outlaw Islam, but just let folks know that we’re in trouble if all we’re looking for are “radical” Islamists. You don’t become a successful terrorist by wearing your jihad on your
sleevekeffiyeh. I’m not claiming to have a solution, just pointing out what many fail to recognize… The problem is Islam, not a “radicalized version” of it.And my point earlier, with the sarcastic comment about good Muslims stamping out the terrorism, can be compared with other extremists. Does the KKK have any major role in society? No, our civilized society has pushed them to have bonfires in their backyards. “Radical” Islam on the other hand flourishes in the Middle East and it’s spreading in Europe, unanswered. Why are so many governments in the middle east run by “radicals” if the vast majority of the members of the religion of peace are “good”? Yeah, I know, because they’re dictatorships. Well I’m sorry, but there are millions and millions in each of these countries that could easily overthrow the “radicals” if they truly desired to. This is why very few, even when they get here, will bad mouth their former homes… because they don’t disagree with what goes on there.
RightWinged on May 8, 2007 at 10:38 PM
Anyone know what’s going on with the Muslims pictured in the FoxNews video currently linked under the “‘Unsung Hero’ Store Clerk Cracked Jihad Terror Plot” story? It looks like they’re at Fort Dix or another base praying. Seems like a strange thing to throw into the video collage.
insomni on May 8, 2007 at 10:40 PM
RightWinged,
And yet, in spite of the fact that this isn’t your site you feel the need to be the policy Nazi. Must give you a warm feeling down in the sub-cockles of your heart.
Once again I ask you to answer a simple question. If (and we know that it isn’t) this isn’t your site what makes you think that you have the right to decide what is or is not acceptable here.
Go to your own site and dictate policy there. Oh yea, that’s right nobody visits your site…Hell even you don’t visit your own site. So I guess that leaves you living vicariously off HotAir.
How long is Michele going to have to carry you? My tagline wasn’t an issue except for a couple of people whose own site don’t attract any attention at all, so you guys have to be the policy Nazi’s here since your own sites don’t allow you to do jack shit.
We reserve the right
That’s right, WE means the management here, NOT YOU. But since your own site is such an utter and complete failure I guess this is all you have to look forward to eh?
This thread never should have been about my tagline, but policy Nazi wannabe’s that some of you guys are look how it turned out.
Worst thing about it is that in spite of the fact that this isn’t your site there you are still attempting to dictate policy as if it were. That is pathetic beyond belief.
doriangrey on May 8, 2007 at 11:13 PM
Again with the Nazi stuff. I simply told you that you were being annoying, spamming a site that we all enjoy being spamless, and presented the policy and a comment from one of the site’s own operators. Yeah, I’m a “policy Nazi”. Face it, you’ve got no argument so you keep up the personal attacks:
I have some hosting issues at my site and I really don’t have time to mess with it, or really care that much at this point because I do like hanging out here more. I actually pulled a quite a bit of traffic for one guy who hardly ever blogged to begin with. I still get 400+ hits a day off search traffic, but that’s all irrelevant, just your diversion from your obnoxious behavior here.
How is Michelle carrying me? That makes no sense at all. And yeah, we’re pointing out how annoying your spamming is because our sites don’t attract attention. Riiiiight. Again, way to argue the facts.
Yeah, they reserve the right to take action, I simply point out the problem. And? I just asked you to stop shamelessly promoting your site (WHEN YOU ALREADY GET THE LINK IN YOUR USER NAME!). You’ve wanted to keep arguing this, despite the fact that you’ve been thoroughly owned on this. But yes “they” reserve the right to take action, not me. But you tried insisting that no one had presented you a policy (because Bryan specifically asking you to stop just wasn’t enough for you), so I presented you the policy. I’m not claiming the same right as them, I’m just showing you the policy you demanded.
No, you’re pathetic beyond belief. When I’m right, I will continue to prove it. You on the other hand are completely in the wrong, yet want to keep dancing around. Quick, call me a policy Nazi again! That means you win, right?
All I can do is repeat:
So, just so I’m clear….
RightWinged on May 8, 2007 at 11:24 PM
Can someone at HA delete all of the irrelevant comments on this thread before someone stumbles upon this site, unaware, looking for real information and throws up from the O.D. of GI/GO (to use some Hi-Tech IT lingo)?This comment, included, to make the expunge rational.
(I’ll make a real comment next.)
profitsbeard on May 9, 2007 at 12:02 AM
Jihad lashes out of the Koran like a scorpions sting from the body of the beast.
Minimizing any jihadists is suicidal silliness.
As noted: dead is dead.
Amateur or professional jihadists leave you in the same coffin.
Be glad someone at a video store wasn’t like the Delusional Librarians of America who think that the government should be hampered from preventing terrorism …because the right to have your book and video check-outs and internet usage remains inviolate.
Thanks vdeo store guy!
profitsbeard on May 9, 2007 at 12:07 AM
I tried to send a trackback to this, but it still rejected the ping as spam. Can you set it so that it recognizes trackbacks from Haloscan? Thanks.
Avi Green on May 9, 2007 at 12:11 AM
And are motivated by the same ideological fervor, whether or not they are part of a “recognized” terrorist organization or not. That’s the part that bothers me about the police and media’s rush to say that these guys weren’t “connected” to international terrorist groups.
Maybe not formally, but it’s not as though these guys have an org chart – they are connected through a shared belief in the necessity of violent jihad.
Slublog on May 9, 2007 at 12:13 AM
I believe (not sure) that you’re assuming that when I speak of putting needles into donuts that I’m suggesting something which would cause a quick death, such as cyanide. I’m not. I’m speaking of the ‘long term’ poisoning of the food sold in liquor stores with chemicals which might take years to have an impact. Chemicals which cause cancer or birth defects. Or, how about sterility.
We’re not talking about one person dying. We’re not even talking about 20 people dying. If just a small portion of liquor store owners were to inject specific chemicals into various food items throughout the country, over a long time period such as a year, then we’re talking about the possibility of hundreds of thousands dead or sick. Depending on the chemical, we could be looking at sicknesses and birth defects which could pass through generations.
Of course, there are those who can watch videos of these people sawing off human heads with a knife, cutting off limbs, hanging and shooting children, and flying passenger airliners into buildings … and are STILL somehow unable to accept that these people are capable of anything. Those of us who believe Muslims would put poison in our kid’s donuts are complete nutjobs in these people’s opinion. Never mind that terrorists are actually taught and instructed to live among us and “slit our throats from behind.” Just ignore all that.
Pay no attention to the Islamic leaders who publicly instruct Muslims that it’s their duty to kill as many Americans as possible. Just ignore all that.
Doesn’t matter how many videos they watch of actual murders. Doesn’t matter how many FBI reports they read of legitimate terrorist plans to poison our food and water. None of it matters. It’s just all our imagination and we are all crazy.
Islam is a peaceful religion, remember?
Gregor on May 9, 2007 at 3:33 AM
Gregor, if you’ve read my other comments, you may realize that I agree with you on much of what you’re saying there. I’m not big on the “good Muslims” angle. I almost hesitate to say that because even here at HotAir that’s not really PC. But as explained in a few comments I made earlier (scroll up a bit), I don’t subscribe to the whole “radical”/tiny fraction crap.
My issue with you has been when you’re talking about food supply. I just have the definition of “food supply” as canneries, fields where vegetables are picked, bottling companies, butcheries, etc. Could the owners of gas stations and liquor stores potentially do something to the food they sell? Of course, though unlikely. And I know what you’ll say, and I kind of agree, that’s turning a blind eye. But what can you do? Ban Muslims from owning stores? Outlaw Islam? I’ve said I agree that Islam, not “radical” Islam, is the problem… But seriously, what can we do? I’m all for profiling at airports, I’m even for surveillance of Muslims or people from Middle Eastern countries even when there is little if anything causing suspicion. That doesn’t go over well with a lot of people, but I’m nothing if not UN-PC and a realist.
That all said, Cho wasn’t a Muslim, and there have been countless other crazies, and countless other crazies still out there who could easily do the things you’re talking about.
RightWinged on May 9, 2007 at 4:17 AM
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