Breaking: Feds bust six in NJ plot to murder troops at Fort Dix; Update: At least three are illegal aliens; Update: Suspects ID’d, complaint added
posted at 8:18 am on May 8, 2007 by Allahpundit
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No word yet on whether they’re freelance or part of a cell, but there’s a presser scheduled for this afternoon at 2:30.
Six people were arrested on Monday in connection with an alleged plot to murder as many soldiers as possible at Fort Dix, according to various media sites.
The men, ethnic Albanians, allegedly attempted to purchase automatic weapons from an arms dealer working with the FBI and were arrested in New Jersey after officials learned of the plans, a law enforcement source said…
Officials raided the homes of the men, described as Islamic radicals, and said there is video showing some of the alleged planning.
Standby for updates.
Update: The article originally described them as “ethnic Albanians” but now it’s been updated to say they’re from what used to be Yugoslavia. By way of background, AQ has been working for awhile on recruiting “white Muslims” from Bosnia to stage attacks in the west because they blend in better in western societies.
Update: Looks like they were most interested in military targets, which makes me suspect they weren’t part of AQ:
Investigators told Newschannel 4’s Jonathan Dienst that these arrests are the result of a tip to the FBI and use of an informant to track the suspects. The terror suspects traveled over the last several months from New Jersey to the Poconos where they practiced firing automatic weapons, investigators said.
Investigators said the group discussed targeting numerous locations like Dover Air base, Fort Monmouth and several Coast Guard stations before deciding on Fort Dix as their intended target. Fort Dix is run in part by the Army and is a reserve-training center, but active units take part in training, including some which focuses on counter-terrorism.
Update: Details galore from the Newark Star-Ledger:
The would-be attackers, ethnic Albanians who had been under surveillance by the FBI for months, practiced by shooting paintball guns and real weapons in a rural area of the Poconos, one source said. They also allegedly watched jihadist videos in which Osama bin Laden urged them toward martyrdom.
“They were prepared to die,” said the law enforcement source. “We became increasingly convinced this was for real and these guys were ready to roll.”…
The men – several of whom were in the same family – had videotaped their practice sessions in the Poconos, the source said. That videotape, in which they railed against America, led to their arrests.
The men made the mistake of bringing it to a retail store seeking to get a copy burned to a DVD, according to one of the sources. A store employee who later watched the tape called the FBI who began immediately investigating.
Needless to say, that last detail also makes me think they’re not AQ.
Update: ABC News has a teaser up about one of the suspects being a pizza delivery man who had access to the base.
Update: Three of the men were brothers. I wonder how they hooked up with the other three.
Three high-level law enforcement sources told ABC News that the investigation into the plot had been ongoing for 15 months. Four of the six suspects were born in Yugoslavia, one was born in Jordan and the other in Turkey. All were U.S. residents…
[Fort Dix] was chosen because one cell member’s family owned a pizza parlor near the base and that member was able to enter the base to deliver pizza. The group believed this access would enable its attack to succeed.
Update: No ties to any international terror groups, according to CBS News. It was homegrown.
Update: Fox News updates its report with a quote from source saying they’re all recent converts. Really? The guys from Jordan and Turkey, too?
Update: Spruiell issues a broad strata alert after catching a few cops — and CNN, of course — politely ignoring the organizing principle here.
Update: Just across on Fox News — at least three of the suspects are here illegally, which contradicts ABC News’s report that all were U.S. residents. Reuters doesn’t give a number but quotes a spokesman from the U.S. Attorney’s office as corroborating Fox’s report. Some are illegal, some are U.S. citizens.
Update: MM sends the link to the criminal complaint (in PDF form). The suspects:
Dritan Duka (illegal alien)
Eliver Duka (illegal alien)
Shain Duka (illegal alien)
Serdar Tatar
Mohamad Shnewer
Agron Abdullahu
Update: On page 7 of the complaint, it says 10 men were identified in the DVD shot at the training camp. Shnewer appears to have been the ringleader; Abdullahu may or may not have been a sniper in Kosovo. Fort Dix hosted several thousand Albanian refugees from Kosovo in 1999.
Update: On page 21, there’s a reference to attacking American warships docked in the port of Philadelphia followed by some talk of training for overseas jihad, then followed on the next page by the bright idea to wage jihad right here at home — including possibly joining the military so that they could frag people instead. They were keen on getting AK-47s too, and there’s a mention of rocket-propelled grenades towards the end.
Update: According to CBS News, Shnewer is from Jordan and is the lone U.S. citizen of the six; Tatar, from Turkey, and Abdallahu, from the former Yugoslavia, are legal permanent residents. The Duka brothers are also from Yugoslavia and, as previously mentioned, are here illegally.
Update: Here we go with this Orwellian crap already:
The description of the suspects as “Islamic militants” renewed fears in New Jersey’s Muslim community. Hundreds of Muslim men from New Jersey were rounded up and detained by authorities in the months following the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, but none was connected to that plot.
“If these people did something, then they deserve to be punished to the fullest extent of the law,” said Sohail Mohammed, a lawyer who represented scores of detainees after the 2001 attacks. “But when the government says ‘Islamic militants,’ it sends a message to the public that Islam and militancy are synonymous.
“Don’t equate actions with religion,” he said.
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That was so stupid I actually laughed out loud. I guess that war against Fascism was a real failure. Oh and that war against Japanese imperialism was such a disaster too.
Capitalist Infidel on May 8, 2007 at 11:34 AM
Jaherer:
I’m finished trying to reason with you. However, I do have a question that I would sincerely like an answer to–and I’m not being a wise-guy here.
Why do trolls–troll?
Seriously. Is it because you believe that you can convince anyone here to come over to your way of thinking? Do you enjoy it when everyone piles on? Do you just like to stir things up?
I ask because I consider most liberals to be narcissists so my guess is that you believe you’re doing us all a favor. However, I’m really not sure how masochistic trolls fit into that equation.
IrishEi on May 8, 2007 at 11:34 AM
Faraway, that’s one reason I stopped even looking at the Puff Post. As long as it’s military, well that’s okay. Those people over there and the liberal loons who lurk here make me sick.
Catie96706 on May 8, 2007 at 11:34 AM
faraway,
Thanks for giving us a peek into the jumbled minds of Democrat voters.
Obama could win.
fogw on May 8, 2007 at 11:35 AM
Ah, Rightwinged, thanks for the timely reminder. We should never forget Islam is the religion of pieces… err… peace. And, “there is no terrorist threat” (x3!).
eforhan on May 8, 2007 at 11:36 AM
First…..doesn’t matter if it was the Elephant Man and South Park Timmy or Rambo and Terminator……OBL wants em all. It doesn’t matter to AQ if you have an IQ of 10 or 200 as long as you are willing to scatter your guts all over the enemy. AQ recruiters love diversity.
Limerick on May 8, 2007 at 11:39 AM
Everyone knows one or two people like them, but I have to read PuffHost occasionally to remind myself there are actually millions of them in this country.
faraway on May 8, 2007 at 11:39 AM
And fear-mongers like you who wish to maximize every threat, frame the debate using the most apocalyptic and disaterious terms, deamonize an entire religion, and keep the American people in a constant state of fear and uncertainty, should, in my personal opinion, be treated just like the terrorists because by very definition you are helping them achieve their goal of terrorizing the American public. Terrorists want people to fear them, they want to terrorize–maxmizing the threat they pose helps them achieve their goals without them even raising a finger.
I’m not afraid–are you? Son.
Rock On.
JaHerer22 on May 8, 2007 at 11:45 AM
You make me sick. If this were my site, I would ban you.
IrishEi on May 8, 2007 at 11:49 AM
I’ve read all the comments and I still don’t know what agenda the conservatives here are trying to push. We all know terrorism is real. Most all people want to stop it before anybody is killed. And?
It almost looks like some people are gloating that there was a terrorist plot and salivating while pondering what the liberals will do next.
Nonfactor on May 8, 2007 at 11:49 AM
It would not surprise me at all if JaHerer22 were a terrorist. They are taught to infiltrate blogs and message boards. But then again he seems too articulate so my best guess is he’s just your typical leftist Jihad sympathizer.
Capitalist Infidel on May 8, 2007 at 11:52 AM
Yeah, repeated attempts, and one large successful one, to blow up the WTC should be diminished and categorized as sort of important, but not really rising to the level that we need to care about.
Nice spelling, BTW. The liberal schools have done you well to teach you putting a condom on a cucmumber and Spanish rather than the three R’s.
benrand on May 8, 2007 at 11:53 AM
I haven’t followed the entire argument with the delusional Jaherer, but I have to say one thing…. Skimming a few of his comments he keeps talking about how this was a poor plan because they wouldn’t make it past security or would be gunned down by military guys immediately.
From what I was hearing on Fox earlier, the plan was to use RPGs and mortars… exactly how they attack bases in Iraq. They were determining the locations where at times you might find hundreds of individuals at once.
And by the way, they weren’t “wannabes” who hadn’t really cooked up a plan. This was in the works for a while and they’d conducted video tape surveillance.
Again, Michael Moore would like Jaherer to lead the crowd in this chant:
There is no terrorist threat!
There is no terrorist threat!
There is no terrorist threat!
RightWinged on May 8, 2007 at 11:53 AM
So much for civilized debate.
SouthernDem on May 8, 2007 at 11:54 AM
That could very well be the most incoherent disjointed comment I’ve ever read and that says something.
Capitalist Infidel on May 8, 2007 at 11:54 AM
No… in fact, I think some of us are still shocked that liberals don’t get it (as you apparently do). In fact, I think we’d be much happier if there were no such threats anywhere.
When people like JaHerer22 equate pointing out that there is a terrorist threat with people who actually want to carry out acts of terror, our natural response is: “THERE ~IS~ A TERRORIST THREAT!” and any other way to knock sense into such people.
eforhan on May 8, 2007 at 11:55 AM
Really? Is that how you read the poll that said that 35% of Democrats are Truthers, and another 26% “aren’t sure”. Yeah, “we all” know that terrorism is real. But the most outspoken on your side either think we do it to ourselves, or that we’re the cause of it when it’s done by others.
RightWinged on May 8, 2007 at 11:57 AM
It’s difficult to have a debate when one side won’t admit there is an issue to debate.
IrishEi on May 8, 2007 at 11:57 AM
The sad thing about people like him (and everyone who takes the war against jihadists with due seriousness) is that in doing so it saves the ass of people like yourself who don’t take the threat seriously and wouldn’t have a chance if left to your own devices.
thirteen28 on May 8, 2007 at 11:58 AM
Get what? It’s hard to understand what “it” is if you don’t define “it.”
Where did JaHerer say that there wasn’t a terrorist threat. I’ve read him stating that this was a terrorist threat, but definitely not as organized as AQ. But the bottom line is that there will always be people who want to kill other people no matter what we do; it’s a sad reality.
Nonfactor on May 8, 2007 at 12:00 PM
JaHerer22 on May 8, 2007
Seriously, why don’t you give it up. A terrorist no matter what his/her motivation or instigation is bad. They are all bad. We don’t say someone who murdered someone for money isn’t as bad as someone who murdered out of jealousy. We say murderers as murderers are all bad. If a terrorist isn’t directly associated with AQ they aren’t as bad? There is a global islamofacist terroism problem because they all belive the same thing; kill anyone, especially Americans, who arent’ muslim by their definition.
I’m tired of people like you who come to this site pretending to want to engage in an honest dialogue when all you really want is to waste everyone’s time. This tells me you just don’t get it and you probably vote…God help us…
Why don’t you just stay at Daily Kos or Huffington where you are wanted…
CCRWM on May 8, 2007 at 12:01 PM
No, I don’t think I can change anyone’s opinion, everyone here seems pretty set in their ways. Maybe I’ll cause someone to think twice about something or take something different into consideration, but that’s about all.
Mostly I post here because it’s challenging, it keeps me on my toes, and I know anything I say is going to get torn apart. It’s kind of exciting, it helps me find the holes in my arguments and then do the necessary research to fill those holes. If I can make valid points here and get a few extreme right-wingers to concede I might have a point, when I’m out talking to normal people it’s almost too easy to win political arguments and get them to come around to my point of view. I’m not so insecure I need people to agree with what I post, I like it to be attacked and challenged. It makes me tougher and forces me to develop stronger arguments.
And I ask you, why do you post here? What fun is it to say something and have 95% of people reading it to agree? It’s an echo chamber; a circle jerk. That’s why I rarely post at left-wing sites, they bore me, I don’t want people telling me I made a good point, I want them attacking the weak points of my arguments so I can make a stronger one next time. And let’s be honest, I come for the entertainment value, sometimes things are just funny. Andy for Agora Hills is my favorite, I wish he was around more.
JaHerer22 on May 8, 2007 at 12:02 PM
That poll has nothing to do with the statement “we all know terrorism is real;” people can not be sure about all the facts of 9/11 (I’m not), but we still know terrorism exists–just turn on the T.V. Unless those same people think that the attacks in Iraq and Spain and the UK are all conspiracies as well.
Nonfactor on May 8, 2007 at 12:02 PM
Oh, yeah, right. Just great. The next time your pals successfully carry out one of their attacks, you should be the one to go tell their dead vicitms that we’ve been overestimating the terrorists. DUUUHHH! Oh yeah. That’s right. I guess that you won’t be able to do that, because their victims will be dead already. DUUUHHHH! Okay, so I think that you should be the one to go tell the victims’ surviving family members that we’ve been overestimating the terrorist threat. DUUUHHH!
(If the surviving family members react the way that I think that they will, we WON’T have to suffer through any more posts authored by this nimnul.)
CyberCipher on May 8, 2007 at 12:04 PM
Aww. *Group hug!*
Pffft.
IrishEi on May 8, 2007 at 12:04 PM
We plan to show that democrats and liberals are clueless cowards who exploit and cheer the death of our Soldiers all in the pursuit of political power.
They dont care who dies, they seek to blame everyone else but those that are guilty. And their sole reason is they want political power to ram down everyones throats their fauxcompassionate socialistic agenda.
William Amos on May 8, 2007 at 12:05 PM
And the problem appears to be almost exclusively endemic to the Muslim religion.
I think what many of the people here want, at a miminum, is for the mainstream media to stop ignoring this fact, and start asking questions of Islam that are as hard and critical as, say, the questions they have few compunctions about asking of Christianity.
Blacklake on May 8, 2007 at 12:05 PM
Bing-badda-boom……….unfreakin real.
Limerick on May 8, 2007 at 12:06 PM
“Fear-monger” – anyone who attempts to portray the truth about the danger that the entire world faces from islamofascism. Liberals simply prefer to bury their heads in the sand and hope for the best … it’s more comfortable than facing reality.
“deamonize an entire religion” – In lib speak this means lay off islam, it’s a religion of peace don’t you know. Plus, you might offend them and that’s really not a nice thing to do. Other religions, especially Christianity, are fair game. Come to think of it, I’ve never heard a lib say lay off demonizing Christianity … in fact they encourage it.
“be treated just like the terrorists because by very definition you are helping them achieve their goal of terrorizing the American public” – In other words, by not keeping quiet and having the audacity to speak the truth, you my son … ARE the terrorist. How dare you try to awaken the American people to a danger that threatens the entire world?
darwin on May 8, 2007 at 12:07 PM
Do you really think the government tells the people everything about terrorist events? I’m not saying the government orchestrated the attacks or even knew about them, I’m saying that we, the American people, don’t know everything about 9/11; if you think you do you’re mistaken.
I think you purposefully misinterpreted my statement. There will always be people like you; a sad reality (queue misinterpretation).
Nonfactor on May 8, 2007 at 12:09 PM
“It almost looks like some people are gloating that there was a terrorist plot and salivating while pondering what the liberals will do next.” Nonfactor on May 8, 2007
No it’s just hope tht maybe the truthers and the unhinged left will start to acknowledge there is a GWOT for a good reason. This way instead of obstructing maybe you’ll help us fight it. I believe that the left really wants us to lose because they hate Bush so much and they want to get politiccal power back. Shortsighted…
CCRWM on May 8, 2007 at 12:09 PM
It’s Andy FROM Augora Hills, JaHerer! Can’t you get ANYTHING RIGHT?!!!!??? :-)
Kidding.
I come here because it’s a pretty good cross-section of conservatism. The intra-conservative smackdowns are always the most interesting.
Slublog on May 8, 2007 at 12:09 PM
IMHO, he minimized the threat in the post where he ranted against “maximizing” the threat. YMMV.
He was wrong, though. Pointing out that this was another Islamic Extremist attack is not maximizing — unless stating facts is now fearmongering?
eforhan on May 8, 2007 at 12:09 PM
Yes, CCRWM, the entire left wants America to “lose.” Pat Tillman, how could you want this for America?
Nonfactor on May 8, 2007 at 12:11 PM
I don’t want people telling me I made a good point, I want them attacking the weak points of my arguments so I can make a stronger one next time.We’re anxiously waiting …….
fogw on May 8, 2007 at 12:12 PM
We’re anxiously waiting ………
fogw on May 8, 2007 at 12:12 PM
You’re absolutley right, we don’t know … and probably never will after Sandy “loose pants” Berger stole classified documents that may have shed light on that unknown. I guess the truth would have been just a tad too uncomfortable for Bill and especially presidential candidate Hillary.
darwin on May 8, 2007 at 12:13 PM
Finally an honest liberal!
eforhan on May 8, 2007 at 12:13 PM
Does anyone believe this family didn’t take the opportunity to use the pizzas to poison customers? What sort of chemicals might the customers have been eating along with their dinner? Muslims are very quickly gaining complete control over this country’s entire food supply.
When do we wake up?
Gregor on May 8, 2007 at 12:14 PM
I think you’re confused–conflicted even.
Ya might wanna rethink that one. Hasn’t worked so far.
IrishEi on May 8, 2007 at 12:15 PM
“Maybe I’ll cause someone to think twice about something or take something different into consideration, but that’s about all.” JaHerer22 on May 8, 2007 at 12:02 PM
You know this has to be a two way street…
CCRWM on May 8, 2007 at 12:15 PM
Nonfactor is either sick or evil or both.
JaHerer22 follows suit, glibly sidestepping the issue of our fighting men and women’s lives in order to prove something deranged.
Nothing new about that.
ANY successful terrorist attack of any kind, from any source, adds to the effect that terrorism is designed to inflict.
And it has obviously already inflicted terminal damage on the minds of a few in this country.
Look at them, they are indeed terrified beyond belief, resorting to denial (It’s Bush’s fault!), displacement (Global Warming), hysteria and histrionic.
Others are just evil and cannot hide behind the excuse of mental disorder.
Time is marching inexorably onward to the day when these people are going to have to face judgement.
Their biggest problem will be finding out the hard way that the judgement will not come from other human beings, but from their own mouths.
Meanwhile, The Machine mouths a stupid, God-fearing unintelligent Bushco prayer to Our Saviour for allowing yet one more terrorist plot to be thwarted. Thank you, Lord.
“Because God’s existence in our tiny little lives TRUMPS your belief that He does not exist.” –Jeff Foxworthy
.
The Machine on May 8, 2007 at 12:18 PM
“Yes, CCRWM, the entire left wants America to “lose.” Pat Tillman, how could you want this for America?” Nonfactor on May 8, 2007 at 12:11 PM
What you couldn’t come up with anything so you have to resort to the usual liberal tactic of victimization? I bet Mr. Tillman was a conservative Christian. I would have not told anyone but the family the truth about his death because it would do no good to point out that he was accidentally killed by one of our own… not for some cooked up nefarious reason…
CCRWM on May 8, 2007 at 12:21 PM
Folks, we’ve got someone on the verge of Trutherism, all he needs is a nudge! Someone quick, tell him that Ben Chertof, in charge of research at Popular Mechanics is a cousin of Michael Chertof (even though he’s not, but Truthers believe this anyway). Or quick, someone play out of context audio of someone saying “it sounded like a bomb went off” on 9/11.
And Gregor, shut up.
RightWinged on May 8, 2007 at 12:23 PM
JaHerer22 on May 8, 2007 at 12:02 PM
Well said. Truthfully I admire you for coming here and challenging us and yourself. As for your question about why we righties post here I would say three things. One, I’m sure many regular right wing posters here are not foreign to the concept of shuffling over to huffpo and other left leaning sites to do exactly what you are doing here. Two, only the libs who are willing to challenge and be challenged come here and so we are provided with the opportunity to converse with the cream of the crop from the opposite side of the political spectrum right here in our comfy home. Three, Allah, Bryan, Michelle, et al are all must reads, no matter what your political leanings, as I’m sure you are aware.
Zetterson on May 8, 2007 at 12:25 PM
Dude…you forgot the glint of light off something that looked like a pod on one of those aircraft.
That means something.
Slublog on May 8, 2007 at 12:25 PM
I did not misinterpret your statement, purposely or otherwise.
Although I cannot post comments every day, I do read HA religiously (sorry AP). My remark was in response to your overall outlook on the WOT and your political persuasion. I have read many, perhaps most, of your comments on this site over the past year and I have a pretty good idea where you are coming from.
IrishEi on May 8, 2007 at 12:27 PM
Based upon the names released in the complaint, can we please refer to this plot as the “Duku Duku, Mohammed Jihad?”
Bob Owens on May 8, 2007 at 12:28 PM
The problem here is that everything I say is misrepresented and taken to the extreme.
I say the NJ 6 were unorganized and half-assed–suddenly I’m saying they aren’t actually jihadists and there is no terrorist threat.
I say we need to differentiate between the threats posed by different types of terrorists–suddenly I’m saying only AQ is bad and other jihadists are harmless or even okay.
I say we shouldn’t fear-monger and exaggerate the terrorist threat–suddenly I don’t believe in terrorists, don’t believe there is a threat, and believe the terrorists all really just want to hold hands and sing songs.
THERE IS A MIDDLE GROUND…
We can take radical jihadists seriously and work tirelessly to stop them and protect Americans without letting them control our lives and occupy our every thought, without convincing Americans to live in fear, without taking away privacy rights, without risking our reputation by using torture, without Gitmo, etc, etc, etc…
You may disagree, and that’s fine, but at least awknowledge there is a middle ground and the only two camps are “gung ho for the GWOT” or you don’t believe there is a terrorist threat and you think jihadists just need a hug.
JaHerer22 on May 8, 2007 at 12:28 PM
Basically, “We object to you referring to a group of militants who all happen to be Islamic as Islamic Militants.”
What other unifying trait would people rather one use to convey the proper distinction? Militant Brown People? Militant Guys-In-Their-Twenties? Swarthy Militants?
Objecting to the term “Islamic” when the unifying principle of the group seems to be Islam amounts to an unserious argument.
Lehosh on May 8, 2007 at 12:29 PM
Three Cheers for John Doe!!!
Zorro on May 8, 2007 at 12:29 PM
JaHerer22
Afraid…No far from it, what I am is mad as hell, especially at fools like you who can’t grasp even the simplest of concepts.
Asymmetrical warfare may not be the simplest concept to grasp. But having hundreds of millions of people dedicated to your death and the destruction of your way of life and values pretty much is.
1.6 billion Muslims on earth with approximately 20% being dedicated to violent jihad, do the math s**t for brains, that’s 320 million people actively engaged in violent jihad with the express purpose of killing fools like you.
Figure it out retard, they don’t have to be coordinated, the barbarian hordes that brought down Rome weren’t coordinated, they did it with sheer numbers and an unrelenting assault.
We face the exact same threat Rome faced, sheer numbers and a willingness to die to achieve their goals. Sadly just like Rome and the barbarians the Muslims are actually the lesser of the threats facing western civilization.
The threat most likely to bring about our downfall is imbeciles like you who are intellectually and constitutionally incapable of grasping how real and emanate the threat facing them is.
The question here is not am I Islamophobic but am I Islamophobic enough. 320 million Muslims dedicated to the destruction of everything that I value, the answer incontrovertibly is no I don’t even remotely approach being Islamophobic enough.
Oh and at 46 I am far from being your son, if I were obviously I would have killed myself long ago out of embarrassment of sharing your genes.
Rock on……………..
doriangrey on May 8, 2007 at 12:30 PM
Man, I just read through that complaint and it is some truly chilling stuff. I go to the Army-Navy games. I work in Camden. I live in Philly. Like most everyone else here, I’ve been fully cognizant of the threat we’re facing for quite a while now, but this is just hitting a little too close to home for me.
Many, many kudos to the two cooperating witnesses and all those involved with this investigation. We need to shine lights into every nook and cranny of our society, because those who wish to do us harm are everywhere.
World B. Free on May 8, 2007 at 12:31 PM
@^#$#@%&#@*^#$@&#@^#%@%&#%*@*&#@$@!!!!
They never round up a dozen atheists who intend to commit acts of terrorism, do they?
Enrique on May 8, 2007 at 12:31 PM
So, you come here to further bolster your viewpoints and entertainment value? How very open minded of you.
We have a word for that: Troll. ;-)
eforhan on May 8, 2007 at 12:31 PM
We love the Balkans and hate Iraq?
Screw Iraq, the Middle East and Israel but go head over heals into an American soldier bloodletting trap in Darfur?
Brain damage, severe brain damage.
Speakup on May 8, 2007 at 12:35 PM
Not in modern times, but social Darwinism has been at the root of the world’s biggest mass murderers in history.
RightWinged on May 8, 2007 at 12:35 PM
Wait, what? Complete control over the food supply for 300 million people? Really? *REALLY?*
In no way am I in the JaHarer camp on this thing, but this is either sloppy thinking or paranoia.
“Muslims? In My food supply? Its more likely than you think.”
Bad Candy on May 8, 2007 at 12:35 PM
Heh.
Slublog on May 8, 2007 at 12:36 PM
What??? So “amateurs” who want to kill in the name of jihad are different from well financed “professionals” who want to kill in the name of jihad? I never knew. I always thought dead was dead. I had no idea there were variations on dead depending if you were killed by a professional, well financed jihadist versus an amateur one.
Hmmm … something to think about.
I just wondering if these guys had succeeded … would they have been elevated to “professional” status? That would be quite an achievement for an amateur jihadist.
Hmmmm …
darwin on May 8, 2007 at 12:36 PM
You are right JaHeer……the middle ground…..don’t rescue the hostages…..don’t knock the snot out of Kadaffi for bombing Pan Am…..don’t flaten Jihadistan after WTC1….don’t turn Yemen into ash after the Cole…..send a cruise missle into an African factory after two American embassies are flattened……
The middle ground………..NCIS, CSI Jihad, Elliot Ness,
Madeline Albright, Sandy Berger,,,,,,,, that middle ground.
Limerick on May 8, 2007 at 12:37 PM
Of course they do. They just don’t call it as such. I mean, “atheism” is not supposed to be a religious belief, right (well, except for a few here on HA!)?
Those people who bombed SUVs a few years ago come to mind, for starters. OTOH, this particular attempt at terrorism likely ~is~ religiously-motivated.
eforhan on May 8, 2007 at 12:37 PM
“The problem here is that everything I say is misrepresented and taken to the extreme.
I say the NJ 6 were unorganized and half-assed–suddenly I’m saying they aren’t actually jihadists and there is no terrorist threat.
I say we need to differentiate between the threats posed by different types of terrorists–suddenly I’m saying only AQ is bad and other jihadists are harmless or even okay.
I say we shouldn’t fear-monger and exaggerate the terrorist threat–suddenly I don’t believe in terrorists, don’t believe there is a threat, and believe the terrorists all really just want to hold hands and sing songs.” JaHerer22 on May 8, 2007 at 12:28 PM
No misrepresentation…you actually nailed yourself dead on…
Where are all these Americans we are scaring to death? I hear this all the time and never see the evidence of it… Just another mantra the left hopes everyone starts to believe…
Okay in order to try to undertand your side…please describe this middle ground.
CCRWM on May 8, 2007 at 12:37 PM
The only middle ground in the war on terror is a hole about six feet deep.
There’s no room for negotiation or understanding their “plight”. They want to kill us. They can be Al Qaeda or your local pizza delivery jihadists. They don’t need a reason, they will target anyone, any age, and feel blessed by Allah in doing so. Never has there been a bigger threat, a more bloodthirstly enemy, than the one we face now.
Like standard military tactics, we take the high ground. Period.
fogw on May 8, 2007 at 12:41 PM
So close to “Durka Durka Durka!”
KCSteve on May 8, 2007 at 12:45 PM
JaHerer22,
As long as the Islamic concept of middle ground is you die, then no actually there is no middle ground and only a complete imbecile like you would honestly believe otherwise.
Rock on……………..
doriangrey on May 8, 2007 at 12:45 PM
Well said.
IrishEi on May 8, 2007 at 12:47 PM
Yes. Really. They are buying all the restaurants, fast food stores, gas stations and even packaging companies.
I’m not sure what city you live in, but this is becoming normal throughout most of the country. The next time you buy your kid a pack of Hostess donuts at the local gas station, you might want to think about how easy it would be to stick a needle through the plastic.
Gregor on May 8, 2007 at 12:48 PM
Please do tell us what the issue is about Gitmo. Also, please tell us of an instance where the evil Rove/Boooosh ordered our troops to torture someone.
faraway on May 8, 2007 at 12:53 PM
Okay, I’m done with this thread, mostly because I’ve been completely unproductive at work today and it’s lunchtime. It’s been fun.
In future debates I would prefer to argue what I am actually saying rather than what you think the cliched liberal position is; just keep that in mind.
Remember:
Be viligant, kill the terrorists, just try not to create more in the process.
You’re thousands of times more likely to be killed in a car accident than a terrorist attack. So drive safely.
JaHerer22 on May 8, 2007 at 12:59 PM
How is it possible there are 3 illegal
immigrantsaliens?Our government is doing everything possible to close the borders.Never mind I just had a brain fartWade on May 8, 2007 at 1:00 PM
Are they poisoning wells too?
Lehosh on May 8, 2007 at 1:02 PM
poor Jaherer must have found a weak spot in his “logic”
faraway on May 8, 2007 at 1:03 PM
Uh, huh. Yeah…
Keep watching the skies, dude.
Bad Candy on May 8, 2007 at 1:05 PM
I was gonna come back and say something to that effect, but I got beaten to it.
Heh, well played.
Bad Candy on May 8, 2007 at 1:07 PM
JaHerer22 JaHerer22
what ya gonna do
what ya gonna do when Jihadi comes for you.
Oh that’s right you’ll try to negotiate the middle ground, and when that doesn’t work you will just run away( kind of exactly like what you are doing now). Problem there of course is its awfully damn hard to run away when you aint got no head.
Rock on……………..
doriangrey on May 8, 2007 at 1:07 PM
Of course. We can no longer sit back and allow Islamic infiltration, Islamic indoctrination, Islamic subversion and the international Islamic conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids.
Slublog on May 8, 2007 at 1:09 PM
“Hello, I’m a PC.”
“And I’m a Mac. What are you doing PC?”
“Oh, I’m just trying to burn a DVD of me and my friends shooting at targets painted like American soldiers for our jihad video… but for some reason my spreadsheet program won’t burn the DVD.”
“Do you want me to help you? Y’know, I’m so cool and hip that I make DVDs from my home videos all the time. And with one click I can share all my videos with millions of people on the Web.”
ScottMcC on May 8, 2007 at 1:12 PM
:) sorry Gregor but you sorta sound like the fellas who kept screaming that Japan was buying up everything in America and Hawaii was going to become the next prefecture of the Empire.
Back on topic….one of these ‘rank-amature’ groups is going to slip under the radar. Thank God this ‘John Doe’ had his/her head screwed on straight.
Limerick on May 8, 2007 at 1:14 PM
Slublog,
That was funny as hell in Doctor Strangelove, the tragically ironic fact that it proved to be a viciously accurate prediction doesn’t minimize the humor in the least. 80% of all American college professors are socialists, 90% of all liberals are socialists 35% of all democrats are truthers and 22% of Americans actually believe 9/11 was an inside job. I would say its pretty damn obvious at this point that all of our precious bodily fluids have been sapped and impurified.
Rock on…………………
doriangrey on May 8, 2007 at 1:21 PM
CAIR announcing lawsiut against the John Doe at the DVD store in 5, 4, 3, 2 ….. And Nan has to think about whether or not to protect John Does??? Memo to Harry Pelosi and Nancy Reid – time to get your craniums out of your rectums there is a war going on.
oilbertan on May 8, 2007 at 1:24 PM
Well played on the Dr. Strangelove quote! :)
But in all seriousness: http://www.debbieschlussel.com/archives/2006/02/muslims_dominat.html
I guess the “middle ground” is to install foot washing basins in the Kansas City airport at the behest of Muslim taxi drivers (and truck drivers soon, I guess?), try to turn over port security to Dubai, turn over your manufacturing capacity to China, and then hope for the best.
Dave Shay on May 8, 2007 at 1:31 PM
Couple of points (if they’ve been made, apologies):
The war on terror is a horrible name for this war. That they are or aren’t a part of AQ is utterly irrelevant.
Profiling is a waste of time. What is seems to be lost in translation, probably at CAIR’s request, is that Islam is a religion with all races represented. Jihadis can, literally, be anyone.
That they were caught has nothing to do with the brilliance of law enforcement. They were caught because they don’t know how to operate a DVD burner. These dudes were incompetent. Homegrown and AQ affiliates in the West have to be more lucky than good (CLICHE!).
Krydor on May 8, 2007 at 1:33 PM
You tell me.
Gregor on May 8, 2007 at 1:47 PM
And what are you watching?
Gregor on May 8, 2007 at 1:50 PM
I’m generally not a Chicken Little, Lehosh, but:
IrishEi on May 8, 2007 at 1:55 PM
Oh noes, Gregor sez I caught teh libtardationz!!!!1!11!111
*Yawn*
Hey, Gregor, what do you think about the possible merger between Alcoa and Alcan, and what does it mean for you and your supplier?
Bad Candy on May 8, 2007 at 1:57 PM
Except that killing terrorists tends to create more pissed off Jihadis, which leads to more cannon-fodder for the war.
War divides as people choose which side they’re on. And since Jihadism is a culture of death, madrassas are naturally going to graduate more Jihadis for years to come. How is that our fault, JaHerer?
CliffHanger on May 8, 2007 at 2:02 PM
Agreed! Better to overestimate than to do otherwise.
Rule of warfare is to respect your enemy’s capabilities and dedication to their mission, even when a few of them are bumbling fools.
CliffHanger on May 8, 2007 at 2:15 PM
Youb want fear mongering ? Try
“The Patriot act is an attempt to strip away constitutional rights”
“The Federal Wiretaping probe is an illegal act to listen in on US citisens”
“Gitmo is being used for torture”
“The Bush administration needs to be investigated for Constitutional Abuses”
“We need to investigate haditha and any othe military scandel because we all know the Military likes to torture”
Anyway who is the bigger fearmongers here ? It has to be the left.
William Amos on May 8, 2007 at 2:18 PM
Because to Libs, we are to pursue ONLY those who ran planes into our buildings on 9/11. In fact, if we were to capture or kill OBL today, the war would be over.
CliffHanger on May 8, 2007 at 2:20 PM
Fine, poisoning wells and reservoirs.
But a national takeover via 7-11 debi cakes? I guess even the Illuminati have a “special needs” division.
Lehosh on May 8, 2007 at 2:25 PM
This is where your whole premise goes to shinola. It’s a thinly veiled (if that) charge that we somehow create terrorists by fighting back or taking them – ALL of them – with deadly seriousness. It also completely contradicts your “be vigilant” mantra.
The only thing we could ever do to create terrorists is to be weak, faint-hearted, and to take them with anything less than complete seriousness, for such weakness is provacative and only invites more from them.
thirteen28 on May 8, 2007 at 2:29 PM
“They were prepared to die….”
I say, accommodate them.
georgej on May 8, 2007 at 2:31 PM
Let’s be accurate Jaherer. Before responding, I quoted exactly what you said in each one of my posts. One can conclude then, that everything you say is the cliched liberal position.
Like it wasn’t obvious.
fogw on May 8, 2007 at 2:38 PM
Funny. I don’t recall saying anything about a “national takeover via 7-11.” I simply said they are quickly obtaining control of our food supply, which is silly to even debate. In California, I think it would be fair to guess that at least 60% or more of all liquor stores, fast food restaurants, pizza restaurants, motels, and gas stations are owned by Muslims. I am not dreaming this. It’s a fact.
And oh by the way.
Gregor on May 8, 2007 at 2:40 PM
DUKA DUKA JIHAD!
400lb Gorilla on May 8, 2007 at 2:45 PM
OH MY GOD NO, GEORGE!!! THAT WOULD CREATE MORE TERRORISTS!!!
(runs away screaming in horror while simultaneously wetting pants).
thirteen28 on May 8, 2007 at 2:52 PM
thirteen28,
Get serious, this kind of thinking only works on those still retaining the capacity for rational logical thought, which obviously leaves JaHerer22 out of any discussion.
fogw,
.
Hmmm, I would have thought that by now you would have noticed that they only thing that makes a liberal angrier then having their endowments cut or facing the truth is to be quoted accurately in the correct context.
Rock on…………………
doriangrey on May 8, 2007 at 2:54 PM
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