Third-party Hagel: Which side does he hurt more?
posted at 3:22 pm on May 7, 2007 by Allahpundit
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Barnett’s popping the champagne on the theory that an anti-war centrist veteran is bound to attract more disgruntled Democrats or Democrat-leaning independents than vice versa. Is he?
There are two things we know about the Democratic nominee: First, he or she will be anti-war. And second, he or she will not be a veteran. Even in their lower tiers, the Democrats don’t have a candidate who served. If they did, that guy would move up to the top tier in a hurry.
The modern Democrats are very fond of their Absolute Moral Authority™ rubbish. Some of them will be drawn to the fact that Hagel can tap this much more effectively than their nominee…
It’s not like he’ll get more than 5% of the vote in any state. But on the war, he’ll be running to the left of the Democratic nominee and with a lot more credibility than the typical lunatic fringe candidate. Hagel could be even more destructive to the Democrats’ chances than Nader was in ’00.
The only way he does the Dems damage, I think, is if Hillary’s the nominee, and even then it won’t have anything to do with his vet status. It’ll be because part of the left considers her too hawkish notwithstanding her recent war criticism and can’t vote for her in good conscience. They’re not going to abandon Obama, the only serious candidate on either side who opposed the war from the beginning, or nutroots hearthrob Silky Pony, who’s worked hard to reposition himself as the most ostentatiously anti-war figure in the race, for a Republican who (like Edwards) voted to invade in 2002. Literally the only reason to vote for Hagel in either of those cases would be because he’s a veteran, but that’s an odd justification for a protest vote in a tight race — essentially protesting Obama’s and Edwards’s lack of service, not any of their positions. Besides, military backgrounds won’t matter nearly as much in war-weary ‘08 as they did in ‘04, when the left needed to play up Kerry’s to give hawkish independents some reason to trust him to be tougher on terrorism than Bush. The theme of the next election won’t be “tough on terror,” it’ll be “breath of fresh air,” which is why there’s so much excitement around Obama on the left and Fred, for his perceived back-to-basics Reaganism, on the right.
Plus, check this out:

There are a lot of unhappy Republicans in that sample. Dean’s right to say Hagel would top out at 5%, but I’m not as convinced that the lion’s share of that five would come from the left instead of the right. Especially if McCain’s the nominee, which would make the contrast between Hagel and the Republican candidate especially stark given their shared status as vets and the fact that McCain, at his age, represents anything but fresh air. Imagine what the media would do, with the storyline of the surge’s biggest proponent being threatened by the “real” maverick, who dared to represent “brave” anti-war Republicans by breaking away to run as an independent. Rudy and Fred would be better bets to neutralize the Hagel factor, Rudy because he can attract centrists who might otherwise gravitate to Hagel and Fred because he can force a tough choice on anti-war conservatives: a protest vote for a RINO versus a hold-your-nose vote for a pro-war but rock-ribbed Republican. Tough to pass up that latter option. Each of them will still lose votes to him, though, I think.
Exit question: Who’s right, Dean or me?
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I gotta think Dean’s right, but maybe just cuz I want him to be. Seriously, how could any self-respecting Republican vote for a jerk like Hagel?
bdfaith on May 7, 2007 at 3:32 PM
I think Hagel will attract the type of Republican described in this story from Newsweek.
Slublog on May 7, 2007 at 3:35 PM
Come on, Hagel’s stauncly pro-life, pro-energy (support ANWR), he’s a low-tax deficit hawk, against special treatment of homeosexuals, supported the Patriot Act and on and on and on.
What nutroot will vote for him? They would go for any Green candidate in a heartbeat over Hagel or either Hillary.
I agree with AP, he can only hurt the Republican candidate, losing votes of conservatives who are fed up with Iraq. Will he get 5%? I seriously doubt it, I would figure closer to 2%
RW Wacko on May 7, 2007 at 3:36 PM
Hagel will attract regional votes in swing states that are going to be won handily by Fred anyway. Hagel gets a few disatidfied folks in Deep Blue states, thata Republican is not going to win anyway. He has little to no effect. Thank you electoral college.
Theworldisnotenough on May 7, 2007 at 3:40 PM
Hagel……Nonfactor (no offense Nonfactor)….credibility zero.
McCain is going to be the jumper. That’s Hillary’s ace in the hole.
Limerick on May 7, 2007 at 3:46 PM
I don’t think that he would poll any differently than Pat Buchanan. The two parties would work to keep him out of the debates with the 10-15% polling threshold for entry.
After 2000 and Nader, the left will vote for Hillary, even if they have to hold their noses with both hands.
rw on May 7, 2007 at 3:47 PM
Dont think Democrats and Republicans are the only voters here.
Just saw a receint rasmussen report that says both parties numbers are going down and more people are registering as independants.
Hagel would pull those people.
William Amos on May 7, 2007 at 3:49 PM
Who would Ron Paul hurt, there’s alot of fanatics with political IQ’s close to zero that think he has a shot because of the internet buzz he gets.
jp on May 7, 2007 at 3:53 PM
The same ones who’d vote for Paul. I agree with Allah, unfortunately. I’d like to agree with Dean, but Allah’s being realistic.
amerpundit on May 7, 2007 at 3:56 PM
Hagel might get some RINO votes, but we all know what THE defining issue of our day is and he isn’t onboard for it. He can be 100 percent rightwinger on every other issue but if he’s a dove on war then he’s goin’ the way of the dodo bird.
Tony737 on May 7, 2007 at 3:56 PM
Perot got us Clinton, Nader got us GW. I don’t believe either side will forget for a very long time. If anyone on the scene is capable of spoiling it for either party it is McCain and Gorebot. An independent run by either will be a diaster for their parent party. Only these two gentlemen (kaf-choke) have the clout to pull off a credible third party run.
Limerick on May 7, 2007 at 4:00 PM
Not many “Republicans” will vote for Chuckie Cheese. In fact, the RINO support may be gravitating to Obama.
Valiant on May 7, 2007 at 4:05 PM
All I got to say about this
liberrocky on May 7, 2007 at 4:08 PM
There’s still time to convert the states to instant runoff ballots, so we can this anxiety of third parties “stealing” from the major candidates. Then, finally, we can sensibly welcome as many options as we can fit on a ballot.
Typewriter King on May 7, 2007 at 4:08 PM
Hagel’s a legend in his own mind.
CP on May 7, 2007 at 4:09 PM
Typical leftwing dribble. One reepublican says he doesnt like anyoen but sort of likes Obama means now that all republicans are flocking to elect Obama.
Spin spin spin.
William Amos on May 7, 2007 at 4:10 PM
Thanks I needed that. Smiles always welcome.
Limerick on May 7, 2007 at 4:12 PM
Is he talking to Pam Anderson in that picture?
nico on May 7, 2007 at 4:19 PM
Please, God in Heaven, let Al Gore run for president!
Lehosh on May 7, 2007 at 4:24 PM
Yeah, he’d hurt us a bit, but he’ll hurt more if our candidate is weak. If the election is a super close one, it could sink us.
Bad Candy on May 7, 2007 at 4:51 PM
The American side.
ReubenJCogburn on May 7, 2007 at 5:00 PM
In my nightmares, I dream of the only third-party tickets with any chance at all:
Guilliani/Gore OR far more unlikely: McCain/Gore
If either of those materilized, we could see the end of one or both of the current major parties.
Yeah, I know – never happen . . . . . or could it?
Fatal on May 7, 2007 at 5:06 PM
Just the RINOs who are the core constituency of Chuckles and his ilk.
RINOs just so happen to share the ideology of big government left-wing Commies.
Valiant on May 7, 2007 at 5:13 PM
You’re both wrong. Hagel isn’t going to hurt anyone. By the time the election comes along, the Iraq war issue will either be turned around and Iraq is functional, in which case the pro war Republican nominee will be the next POTUS or the war will be a continued quagmire and the Democrat will win.
So, you see, I am right. Hagel will be a non-issue because the defections from either party will more than cover Hagels’ measly 5%.
csdeven on May 7, 2007 at 5:28 PM
Meh, I can’t imagine anyone who still thinks that voting matters would waste it on Hagel. If he runs as a third party, he’ll get his vote, his wife’s vote, his running mate’s vote, and his mom’s vote. Does anyone know if Hagel’s mom supports Guliani? Or if she’s alive?
Enrique on May 7, 2007 at 5:44 PM
Hagel won’t hurt EITHER side because NO ONE cares about him on ANY side.
Warner Todd Huston on May 7, 2007 at 5:58 PM
Dean’s right.
Hagel hurts Hillary.
If Obama gets the nomination, Hagel’s vote tally is less than 1% of the total, IMHO. In the general, Republicans won’t vote for him (they remember Perot), even if they don’t like either Rudy or McCain.
georgej on May 7, 2007 at 6:10 PM
Hagel [hay-gull] –noun
1. a politically irrelevant dork.
2. a nonfactor.
3. an embarassment to the Republican party and all military veterans
4. Archaic; a type of fanboy
[Origin: 1150–1200; ME; apocopated var. of Hagelwussy]
—Related forms
hagel-ish, adjective
hagel-ly, adverb
hagel-ize, verb
(Sometimes I even crack myself up.)
Mojave Mark on May 7, 2007 at 7:03 PM
The exit’s a tough call. My money was on two third-party challenges – one from the Tancredoesque right and one from the Kucinich/Naderesque left. But an anti-war “centrist” vet? Too close to call for my feeble grey cells. But since the persuadable center is so small, any ripples there cause worry to both sides.
Another problem with evaluating “different approach” Republicans in a poll like this is that the “get out”-ers are pretty much lumped together with the “hit ‘em harder”-s.
eeyore on May 7, 2007 at 8:06 PM
Sometimes we have a similar affliction :) That was very funny. I laughed out loud, as I love words and plays on them. Thank you. Regards,
Entelechy on May 7, 2007 at 9:36 PM
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