As Ulysses S. Grant put it:

“In every battle there comes a time when both sides consider themselves beaten, then he who continues the attack wins.”

But since my intention is to say something that will prove of practical use to the inquirer, I have thought it proper to represent things as they are in real truth, rather than as they are imagined. Many have dreamed up republics and principalities which have never in truth been known to exist; the gulf between how one should live and how one does live is so wide that a man who neglects what is actually done for what should be done learns the way to self-destruction rather than self- preservation. The fact is that a man who wants to act virtuously in every way necessarily comes to grief among so many who are not virtuous.

Ambrose Bierce:

CYNIC, n.
A blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are, not as they ought to be.

Nonfactor, you’re wayyyy wrong there. Machavelli wrote a book on how to be a ruthless king–The Prince. But the point of the Discourses –where that passage comes from–is that it is a handbook about how Republics can keep their liberty.

I’ve read them both. I’ve taken classes where both are discussed. People can argue that Machiavelli wasn’t being genuine when he was writing The Prince just as they can argue Plato wasn’t being serious when inventing his just society, but in the context of when and why he was writing the book it makes more sense to believe that he was genuine when talking about Kings and more hypothetical when talking about Republics.

But that’s way way way different from saying that you “can’t take him seriously”.

see-dubya on May 5, 2007 at 9:34 PM

True, poor choice of words.

Warms my icy little heart.

And he was quite utterly ruthless in defense of that liberty, in ways modern people, heck, even the Founders, couldn’t tolerate.

A better criticism is that anyone who values human rights–or individual rights– can’t embrace his solutions for keeping a Republic free. But that’s way way way different from saying that you “can’t take him seriously”.

For that matter, I think Islamism is ridiculous, retrograde, and unworkable. But that doesn’t mean I shouldn’t take it seriously.

Anybody who values democracy can’t take Machiavelli seriously.

(csdeven, hide your eyes) jk
techno_barbarian on May 5, 2007 at 4:13 PM

Too late!

I actually liked a lot of what freddie boy had to say last night. I was disturbed that he claimed Ronnie used his suggestions in a speech. I’d like to know if this is verifiable. If it isn’t, it was a stupid thing to claim and is worse than name dropping. He referenced Ronnie several times and then Bush and John Wayne. That doesn’t bother me too much, because that is the kind of stuff his audience wanted to hear him say.

But in the final analysis, it was just another speech from another conservative who is NOT running for president.

Heh, Kini, didn’t mean to eat the second ‘e’ in Venezuela, but just realized that I did :) Have a happy Hawaiian Saturday.

Entelechy on May 5, 2007 at 5:46 PM

LOL! I too have been accused of murdering the English language!
Have a wonderful Weekend!

Did you watch Fred!’s interviews with hannity this week. He sounded great and was very good; but he looks old. And that bugs me. I hadn’t seen him live in a long time and it was a little surprising.

lorien1973 on May 5, 2007 at 4:47 PM

I saw a little of that. I recorded his speech on CSPAN last night, but haven’t watched it yet (working). Also saw him on H&C a bit and recorded that too.

As far as looking and being old. He looks to be in pretty good shape to me. I don’t have any past history or knowledge of Fred!

Hell, I’d never even heard of him until a few months ago. Never even seen him in a movie or on TV. What he’s saying and writing right now are what’s got my attention riveted. Learning of his experience as an elected official just helped cement my support.

As far as I’m concerned, Fred!’s the right man for the times. Others are entitled to their opinions, of course.

See Venzuela, Bolivia, chunks of Europe, and our elites who want to ‘lead’ us.
Entelechy on May 5, 2007 at 4:01 PM

What’s ironic is that we have elected officials running around Europe and the middle east cozying up to these/our elites. Theirs and ours, like AlGore, JKerry, and the like, all enjoying each other company with the singularity of thought.

They think they know what’s best for us.

These dangerous people will use public opinion to sway us down the road where history has taught ua all been before.
Complacency in the face of evil. Because it’s easier to negotiate your subjugation till it’s too late to do anything about it (see Hugo Chevas) . Let there be no mistaking what evil’s plans for the the world and those who would placate into evil’s plans.

History continues to teach, some never learn the lessons.

What a great time for a word from Fred!. This, like all his other writings, is excellent.

Did you watch Fred!’s interviews with hannity this week. He sounded great and was very good; but he looks old. And that bugs me. I hadn’t seen him live in a long time and it was a little surprising.

… pusillanimous …

Well, I’ll be darned.

..you prepare to use force, even though your forces be inferior to his, he will begin to respect you

That’s the same advice my dad gave me when I told him a tough guy was picking on me 40 years ago.

I think his exact words were, “You tear into his ass and give him all you got. Next time, he’ll look for an easier target”

Applies to terrorists and schoolyard bullies.

These two are the greatest dangers of our time and we need a leader who can convey this simply to those who don’t read much and have no idea who Machiavelli, Sun Tzu, Kipling, my favorite war strategist Genghis Khan, or Ayn Rand are.

Entelechy on May 5, 2007 at 4:01 PM

(csdeven, hide your eyes) jk

What a great time for a word from Fred!. This, like all his other writings, is excellent.

//hat tip to my good friend rayra over at GCP

There is more, but y’all get the drift. It is downright embarrasing that this kind of stuff has been obvious for centuries, but our politicians are incapable of comprehending it.

LegendHasIt on May 5, 2007 at 5:24 AM

the bigger problem is the politics of it, the politicians may very well understand this stuff but the voters do not and generally do not like war or war posturing.

The hardest thing to explain is the glaringly evident which everybody had decided not to see.

Ayn Rand

…a good part of the world playing ostrich today…all in order to achieve this:

We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission; which is the stage of the darkest periods of human history, the stage of rule by brute force.

Ayn Rand

We must fight Islamo-fascism and the sadistic socia*ist/com*unist rulers and believers, fooling the masses. See Venzuela, Bolivia, chunks of Europe, and our elites who want to ‘lead’ us.

These two are the greatest dangers of our time and we need a leader who can convey this simply to those who don’t read much and have no idea who Machiavelli, Sun Tzu, Kipling, my favorite war strategist Genghis Khan, or Ayn Rand are.

Not bad for a book written in 1517.

Machiavelli and Sun Tzu are still worth reading for the same reason the Founding Fathers still are: They possessed a fundamental understanding of human nature, and that doesn’t have an expiration date.

Note to Mr. Bush – though, he already knows the first, and third one…

It is better to be feared than loved, if you cannot be both.
Niccolo Machiavelli

It is double pleasure to deceive the deceiver.
Niccolo Machiavelli

It is much more secure to be feared than to be loved.
Niccolo Machiavelli

The truth of that quote is a bit different:

“Give me (General Patton) six spastic monkeys and Ted Kennedy armed with potato guns and a limousine, and I’ll STILL beat that… gentleman… to Messina!”

Patton… won. Period. End of argument.

Funny, Macarthur was Patton and Eisenhower’s commanding officer when they broke up the Veteran’s camp. 30 odd years later, Patton’s dead, Macarthur’s fired, and Eisenhower’s in the White House. Who’da thunk a butt-kissing internationalist would beat out a couple of dedicated, professional soldiers?

Clearchus scowls,
John Hawkwood grins,
Tranquier howls,
and Sforza wins.

(apologies on the name-spellings)

Gig’em

It started with “Shock and Awe”

it ends with “Cut and Run”

History repeats.

I’m so proud. Last week I began singing the praises of Machiavelli, defending him, and now my effort has been rewarded. It sometimes gets lonely, being out on the frontier, scouting ahead, engaging the enemy while the main body debates.

One, very significant, author has not yet been represented in this thread, so I take this opportunity to share a bit of Kipling wisdom:

But ye say, “It will mar our comfort.” Ye say, “It will minish our trade.”
Do ye wait for the spattered shrapnel ere ye learn how a gun is laid?
For the low, red glare to southward when the raided coast-towns burn?
(Light ye shall have on that lesson, but little time to learn.)

“The Islanders”

The Celt is in his heart and hand,
The Gaul is in his brain and nerve;
Where, cosmopolitanly planned,
He guards the Redskin’s dry reserve

His easy unswept hearth he lends
From Labrador to Guadeloupe;
Till, elbowed out by sloven friends,
He camps, at sufferance, on the stoop.

“An American”

“My wounds are noised abroad;
But theirs my foemen cloaked.
Ye see my broken sword–
But never the blades she broke;
Paying them stroke for stroke.
Good handsel over all.”

“The Quest” (Kipling on the MSM)

His wrong’s your wrong, and his right’s your right,
In season or out of season.
Stand up and back it in all men’s sight –
With that for your only reason!
Nine hundred and ninety-nine can’t bide
The shame or mocking or laughter,
But the Thousandth Man will stand by your side
To the gallows-foot — and after!

“The Thousandth Man” (Kipling on Enoosaen and our so-called “allies”)

I have to pause at this point and wipe the tears of anger aside to point to the link I inserted above. that links to an article about the Masai village of Enoosaen, who offered us 14 sacred cows after 9/11. FIVE YEARS LATER they are commemorating the attack. They remember. THEY ARE OUR FRIENDS. Where’s the factories? The schools? The modern sanitation facilities? The advisors, the security personnel? In short, why are we not doing 100 million times more for these people than we’re doing for the desert trash of Iraq? No wonder the world thinks we’re crazy. We ignore and abuse our friends, and embrace and reward our enemies. We fellate those who betray us, and ignore those who befriend us. We should show the WORLD the difference between being our friend, however impoverished,and being our enemy, however wealthy. Hell, Wal-mart, Nike, et al, I’ll BUY products made in Enoosaen at fair-market prices, without complaint.
Back to the quotes.

A Man must stand by his Master
When once he has pledged his word.

“Song of the Red War Boat” (a message to the GOP)

Not for his ragings and roarings flinch ye from Adam-zad.

“But (pay, and I put back the bandage) this is the time to fear,
When he stands up like a tired man, tottering near and near;
When he stands up as pleading, in wavering, man-brute guise,
When he veils the hate and cunning of his little, swinish eyes;

“When he shows as seeking quarter, with paws like hands in prayer
That is the time of peril — the time of the Truce of the Bear!”
…
Over and over the story, ending as he began: –
“There is no trnce with Adam-zad, the Bear that looks like a Man!”

“The Truce of the Bear” (Kipling on Islamic desert trash)

The fine folks over at RedState have a link to an outstanding piece of video by Saul Anuzis everyone should see.

It’s just excellent. Enjoy.

techno_barbarian on May 5, 2007 at 1:19 PM

.
Great Link techno