Thought For The Day
posted at 4:56 am on May 5, 2007 by see-dubya
[I]f you yield to a threat, you do so in order to avoid war, and more often than not, you do not avoid war. For those before whom you have thus openly demeaned yourself by yielding, will not stop there, but will seek to extort further concessions, and the less they esteem you the more incensed will they become against you. On the other hand, you will find your supporters growing cooler towards you, since they will look upon you as weak or pusillanimous. But if, as soon as you become aware of your adversary’s intentions, you prepare to use force, even though your forces be inferior to his, he will begin to respect you, and, since those with which you were allied will now esteem you, they will be ready to help when you begin to arm, which they would never have done had you given up.
–Niccolo Machiavelli, Discourses Book II, Chapter 14.
Not bad for a book written in 1517.
Blowback
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Dang, now way I’m gonna get that to fit on a bumper-sticker, is there? That must be why the left is addicted to bumper-stickers, simple, childlike, uninformed thinking is more likely to be able to be condensed into that format.
TBinSTL on May 5, 2007 at 5:04 AM
Here are some much earlier quotes in the same vein by Sun Tzu, about 1900 years earlier than Nicolo’s:
There is more, but y’all get the drift. It is downright embarrasing that this kind of stuff has been obvious for centuries, but our politicians are incapable of comprehending it.
LegendHasIt on May 5, 2007 at 5:24 AM
“All war consists of deception.” –Sun Tzu
.
The Machine on May 5, 2007 at 5:27 AM
If the assumption here is that Democrats actually want to win, but just can’t figure out how, check your premise.
Halley on May 5, 2007 at 5:47 AM
I was wondering if your user name was Atlas Shrugged related. :-)
I don’t know about anyone else, but I never thought that more than two Democrat Senators and a handful of Democrat Congresspersons actually want to win. I’m talking about our Government in general, since 1945, including most Republicans.
LegendHasIt on May 5, 2007 at 6:00 AM
Sounds like what used to be called ‘common sense’.
It applies to dealing with the MoveOn left, too. Regrettably, it’s a big mistake to think the old (honorable) rules of adversarial politics still apply. Insofar as they still have significance, it’s because the old rules are used as a trap and turned against us as expedient.
petefrt on May 5, 2007 at 8:09 AM
Good choice for thought of the day.
But I doubt the democraps would comprehend such a fine point.
Zorro on May 5, 2007 at 8:17 AM
Can’t we have a World Peace Ceremony to build bridges and resolve our differences?
Mr. Bingley on May 5, 2007 at 8:26 AM
Up until the Korean War (aka the Korean Conflict or the Korean Police Action, etc.) the US had one war strategy: complete victory punctuated with unconditional surrender.
At the end ow WWII we allowed the Japanese emperor to remain while we installed a Western-style government, but we just obliterated any foe in our way. from Sherman’s March to Nagasaki, we made it clear that we were at war to win. And we defined winning as defeating the enemy body, heart and mind. It was brutal. It was ugly. And it left a stable world when we were done.
Since Korea, we have emphasized winning the hearts and minds of the world. We’ve forgotten about beating the bodies. Because we no longer try to beat them into complete submission, we’ve failed to win hearts and minds either.
Bin Laden referred to the US as the “weak horse” not because we lack a strong military, but because we don’t have the will to use the military to annihilate our threats. In Korea we’ve left a madman and his son in place for 50+ years. In Iraq we were going to do the same.
Even now we’re not fighting the way we should. Islamofascists kill and maim our troops and we fret over whether they are given proper legal counsel. I got an idea, turn Gitmo into a pig farm in which we get blood and pork products to dip all of our bullets into. Every Iranian, Syrian and Suadi we find should be marched to their respective borders, dowsed in pig blood and executed for all their Muslim compatriots to witness. They are fighting a “holy war.” We’re running a PR campaign.
cmay on May 5, 2007 at 8:40 AM
Hey, there are some good simple, childlike Republican stickers out there too.
click here (hint hint)
wryteacher on May 5, 2007 at 8:56 AM
Machiavelli on the First Amendment:
Machiavelli on the Second Amendment:
Machiavelli on Bush Derangement Syndrome:
Machiavelli on liberals:
Machiavelli on the Mexican border:
Machiavelli on National Defense:
RedWinged Blackbird on May 5, 2007 at 8:58 AM
Someone should sent this to the Republican National Committee and Bush.
This can very easily apply to their dealing with the Democrats.
CrazyFool on May 5, 2007 at 9:25 AM
Machiavelli on Cinco de Mayo………line up the buses.
Limerick on May 5, 2007 at 9:29 AM
What no here seems to understand, is that none of this applies to the left. They are not some half-real image on a fading canvas, some dusty tired words from a people who were probably still enthralled by fire and humours and leeches. Liberals hold a privileged position in all of history– they are the first ones to really figure it all out. Why read old dead men when you are going to see the singularity in your lifetime, rewrite the rules for good and evil, and probably– if doctors can only learn just a few more things– live to be 500?
The eternal garden of the fifteen year old scholar: arrogant, cocksure, moody and disdainful.
Too bad they don’t realize that Machiavelli was writing to people who were exactly like them, the spearpoints of modernity, 500 years ago.
a4g on May 5, 2007 at 9:50 AM
I like these quotes from George Patton Jr.
sonnyspats1 on May 5, 2007 at 10:16 AM
Excellent posts in this thread! You guys get it, what’s it gonna take to get common sense out of our government??
Privatestock on May 5, 2007 at 10:17 AM
I’m convinced that Democrats really do want to win. Just that their idea of ‘win’ is a lot different than mine.
Plus, they have completely convinced themselves that we have already lost the current conflict.
Kinda hard to win a conflict after you capitulate.
Lawrence on May 5, 2007 at 10:18 AM
Let me get my dictionary…at first glance it looks like the root word for a certain unmentionable slang word, which kind of fits, actually.
These quotes are amazing!
jjjen on May 5, 2007 at 10:23 AM
I don’t understand. I joined the ACLU and bought a gun, but the Bush administration still doesn’t respect me!
Ah crap… that’s why.
Mark Jaquith on May 5, 2007 at 10:24 AM
Not bad at all, considering this book was written way back when the Arab culture was rather primitive; wielding swords against their enemies, beheading captives, stoning women, cutting off the hands of thieves and cutting out the tongues of false witnesses.
Wait a darned minute!
Other than discovering IED technology to blow up their enemies and black gold beneath their desert to bully their enemies into PC submission, very little has changed in the Arab culture in the last six hundred years.
There are three kinds of people, those who make things happen, those who watch things happen and those who don’t have a clue what’s happening. The first are fearless leaders who take bold steps against the enemy, the second are the MSM who no longer report the news, but decide what should be the news, and the third are the uninformed sheeple who take the word of the MSM as gospel and elect surrender monkeys to congress. – fogw, 2007
fogw on May 5, 2007 at 10:39 AM
To anyone interested in closely studying Machiavelli’s works in English translation, I recommend the translation of The Prince by Leo Paul S. de Alvarez and the translations of The Prince, the Discourses, and the Florentine Histories by Harvey C. Mansfield.
De Alvarez and Mansfield have written commentaries on individual works by Machiavelli. I think both of them would acknowledge a debt to Leo Strauss for his interpretation of The Prince and the Discourses in Thoughts on Machiavelli. I want to praise all three writers, but I don’t really consider myself well-qualified to bestow honors on them.
Kralizec on May 5, 2007 at 10:57 AM
This is no more true than it is with Americans proved everyday on the highway, we will not be detained.
We will certainly rally to a cause however Americans have a personal time limit after which job performance issues versus the job at hand start cropping up.
Personally, for the safety of America I think there are X number of Jihadis that need to be sent on to Allah and that number hasn’t changed much in the last six years but the difficulty of getting that job done while Americans are listening to liberals is rising at a logarithmic rate.
For the sake of the nation, the debate needs to come back to those who understand what’s at stake and give Americans the reasons why the cause has not gone away.
Speakup on May 5, 2007 at 11:04 AM
HA is in fine form this morning!
Carry on, Patriots!
Here’s an interesting article from Drudge entitled “Democrat’s Momentum Is Stalling“.
techno_barbarian on May 5, 2007 at 11:12 AM
Sadly, it doesn’t seem this part has survived the test of time.
Blacklake on May 5, 2007 at 11:18 AM
“There are three kinds of people in the world, d*cks, p*ssies, and *ssholes.” – Team America
D*cks – Conservatives
P*ssies – Liberals
*ssholes – Terrorists
“P*ssies and *ssholes are only an inch apart.”
Tony737 on May 5, 2007 at 11:18 AM
Only because they don’t yet perceive that they need us. But with the islamic invasion of our traditional allies’ homelands, it won’t be long.
I must be honest and say that I’m not in all that much of a hurry to render the aid they will soon be crying for. Actions should have consequences, and we have been betrayed by nearly every traditional ‘ally’. They should not be rewarded for their disloyalty. In my opinion, of course.
YMMV.
techno_barbarian on May 5, 2007 at 11:34 AM
When will politicians learn that when we go to war it needs to be a total war. All through history you win wars by beating the other guy until he can stand it no more or begins to fear you more than he is willing to fight and die.
What the hell has happened to our disgusting politicians? First they voted to send them to fight, then once over there they tell our soldiers they are just a bunch of uneducated murderers and loosers? Then after degrading their honor and service they further insult them by this F’ing “Slow Bleed” BS. Now they say the war is “lost”
Politicians have a direct responsibility for this war. They ALL have blood on their hands. Every damn one of them. Nearly all of them voted for it (they demanded they be allowed to vote for the support of it!) and no amount of backpeddling or passing the buck will save their collective asses now. I am getting to the point where I want to grab a torch, some tar and feathers and go clean out the capitol building.
If we can’t stand together, we fall.
I leave you with this….
Let that sink in. Politicians are destroying our freedoms, security and way of life. We have one chance to take back our government in ’08. If the socialists gain complete control again I feel we won’t ever be able to ever get it back, at least for another 40 years unless the terrorists nuke/bio us in the next 5.
Oh yes, I almost forgot. Global warming will kill us all in 10, no wait 9… or is it 7 years now? So this whole argument is moot.
FireFly on May 5, 2007 at 11:55 AM
When you come to the aid of an ally, it isn’t “rewarding” them, it is simply doing the right thing. Whether they betrayed us or not only figures into the equation if you are not who you represented yourself to be when the deal was struck. To not render aid to them when the time comes then makes us far worse than they.
It sort of reminds me of the time that even though Jesus Christ knew we all would eventually betray His trust, He still willingly died for us…
NRA4Freedom on May 5, 2007 at 12:06 PM
Also, if you haven’t checked out Iraq The Model lately, you really ought to.
Secular Iraqis like the guys at ITM are very angry and justifiably frightened at the policy lunacy coming out of congress right now.
Reports of the progress being made are also uplifting and encouraging. The news needs to get out that the change in tactics, that the traitor harry reid and m’fkn murtha claim is NOT happening or working, absolutely is working. We’ve learned from the mistakes and our efforts have been VERY fruitful. The aq leadership in Iraq is being steadily decimated.
Sure the progress comes at a cost, but that’s to be expected when the enemy is supercharged to continue fighting because they hear the dems screaming for US surrender and exit. Cause and effect.
May God encourage, shield, and defend General Patraeus, our Troops, and our Iraqi Allies, and help them crush our enemies, foriegn AND domestic.
techno_barbarian on May 5, 2007 at 12:06 PM
And yet, 490 years later, the Democrats still don’t understand. Machiavelli must be rolling in his grave.
amerpundit on May 5, 2007 at 12:15 PM
Respectfully,
I understand and agree with your basic point. Honor among allies is the way it should be.
However, many of those governments once loyal to us, are now vehemently not so. To the point, loyal action on their part would’ve made the current conflict much less costly and dangerous. Instead, many of our ‘allies’ actively armed and aided saddam and profited from Oil For Food even as we struggled to get the UN off it’s corrupt ass to help.
To your last salient point; like Christ, the US is being crucified, dispite our intentions to literally save the world. Point well taken.
Still doesn’t make me eager to come to their rescue when the time comes. Pretty sure a great number of Americans will feel that way. Just a gut feeling on my part, and worth next to nothing.
techno_barbarian on May 5, 2007 at 12:20 PM
I’m not sure we could render that aid anyway. This war doesn’t really lend itself to a Normandy-style invasion. We could send troops to back up their unarmed police, but the first civilian casualty would put us at war with the population we’re trying to defend. The smartest thing the Europeans could do at this point is to arm themselves before the infidels are outnumbered.
RedWinged Blackbird on May 5, 2007 at 12:28 PM
Very Funny, LMAO, and I needed a good Laugh, thanks
but,
IMHO, about the post and other quotes, its not that people don’t know these things (excluding Dims). As the post shows, people have known for centuries. The problem is in LEARNING. We all have problems learning lessons unless its a hot fire that burns the sh*t out of you. People want to believe that other people are much like they are, so they refuse to see EVIL. Some people screw you over not just to do you harm but for their own selfishness, like salesmen selling trash that you don’t need. Then there are those who sell you trash knowingly, that’s evil. Then you have real EVIL like Iran’s President Mahmoud AhmaGenocide! and still people refuse to see it, especially Defeatocrats. ………..just my 2 cents
abinitioadinfinitum on May 5, 2007 at 12:29 PM
Magnifique.
I am feeling a strange and powerful flow in the ebb and flow of our political life. Maybe it’s just this morning’s meetings with church groups and a high fiber breakfast, and maybe it’s just last night’s wine.
But, PowerLine blog forum was strong last night, and HotAir is even stronger, with Sun Tzu and Machiavelli. The Dems have been slapped with a veto that they are powerless to override, a wave of public rejection of their whining legislation, and a surprising new respect for the generals and the President — maybe because of his bravura veto.
It feels like a good day for battle.
Jaibones on May 5, 2007 at 12:35 PM
In a class discussion my 14 yr old son was called ‘Machiavellian’ by one of his teachers last week.
I was never so proud.
Tru2my2 on May 5, 2007 at 12:42 PM
Great quote, it sounds like the days gone by when Dhemocrats had male parts.
Mojave Mark on May 5, 2007 at 12:50 PM
Agreed. The nature of war and international conflict has definitely changed.
And this isn’t the first time I’ve heard that solution proffered. Lots of advocation and predictions of gun-running into eurabia.
Wild and wooly times ahead.
techno_barbarian on May 5, 2007 at 12:59 PM
Here is another good qoute;
It has been the fault of both pacifism and liberalism in the
past that they have ignored the immense burden of
inherited evil under which society and civilization labor and
have planned an imaginary world for an impossible humanity.
We must recognize that we are living in an imperfect world
in which human and superhuman forces of evil are at
work and so long as those forces affect the political
behavior of mankind there can be no hope of abiding peace.
— Christopher Dawson
AZPatriot on May 5, 2007 at 1:00 PM
Quotes and thoughts like these should be broadcast to the American masses every single day.
Can’t wait for the hermetically sealed bubble the dems are currently living in to finally pop.
It’ll be a mental health professional services bonanza! Imagine having to come to grips with the fact that nearly everything you think you know is wrong…
Hopefully they’ll self-medicate and assume the fetal position and just get the hell out of the way. God willing, that is.
techno_barbarian on May 5, 2007 at 1:06 PM
Yeah….been my biggest gripe about America for years. What would Machiavelli have written after graduating from Jerry Brown high school and Caesar Chavez community college? Probably ‘West Wing’ episodes to enlighten our minds and free our spirits.
When Rome finally got their act together and invested Carthage the Carthagenians sued for peace. Rome said fine, throw down your weapons and open the gates. The Carthagenians complied. The Roman general said ‘great-now march out into the desert and die’ and proceeded to tear Carthage down stone by stone. Carthage ceased to be a problem. Cruel? Barbaric? Survival? I choose survival.
Limerick on May 5, 2007 at 1:07 PM
The fine folks over at RedState have a link to an outstanding piece of video by Saul Anuzis everyone should see.
It’s just excellent. Enjoy.
techno_barbarian on May 5, 2007 at 1:19 PM
Indeed.
So many of those on our side stress to “not sink to their level” and in the normal course I agree.
However, not only do they not play by the rules, but the referees (the MSM) are blatantly and unabashedly on their side. With such an alliance arrayed against us, I believe good sportsmanship must suffer a bit to gain victory. Now, I’m as white/black and follow the rules as you come, but I’d rather WIN this fight than lose fairly. The stakes are too high.
Darksean on May 5, 2007 at 1:44 PM
When war becomes politics you had better bet that politics have become war. Unless you play both to win you’ll surely lose both.
Buzzy on May 5, 2007 at 2:15 PM
And by denying that evil even exists, Liberals and Pacifists become its partner.
infidel4life on May 5, 2007 at 2:24 PM
.
Great Link techno
abinitioadinfinitum on May 5, 2007 at 2:54 PM
*wipes a tear*
I’m so proud. Last week I began singing the praises of Machiavelli, defending him, and now my effort has been rewarded. It sometimes gets lonely, being out on the frontier, scouting ahead, engaging the enemy while the main body debates.
One, very significant, author has not yet been represented in this thread, so I take this opportunity to share a bit of Kipling wisdom:
“The Islanders”
“An American”
“The Quest” (Kipling on the MSM)
“The Thousandth Man” (Kipling on Enoosaen and our so-called “allies”)
I have to pause at this point and wipe the tears of anger aside to point to the link I inserted above. that links to an article about the Masai village of Enoosaen, who offered us 14 sacred cows after 9/11. FIVE YEARS LATER they are commemorating the attack. They remember. THEY ARE OUR FRIENDS. Where’s the factories? The schools? The modern sanitation facilities? The advisors, the security personnel? In short, why are we not doing 100 million times more for these people than we’re doing for the desert trash of Iraq? No wonder the world thinks we’re crazy. We ignore and abuse our friends, and embrace and reward our enemies. We fellate those who betray us, and ignore those who befriend us. We should show the WORLD the difference between being our friend, however impoverished,and being our enemy, however wealthy. Hell, Wal-mart, Nike, et al, I’ll BUY products made in Enoosaen at fair-market prices, without complaint.
Back to the quotes.
“Song of the Red War Boat” (a message to the GOP)
“The Truce of the Bear” (Kipling on Islamic desert trash)
Hiraghm on May 5, 2007 at 3:03 PM
History repeats.
It started with “Shock and Awe”
it ends with “Cut and Run”
History repeats.
Kini on May 5, 2007 at 3:24 PM
Sonnypats1…I like this Patton quote even better..”Give me and Army of West Point Graduates and I will win the battle, Give me a handful of Texas Aggies and I will win the war’.
Gig’em
DoctorDentons on May 5, 2007 at 3:31 PM
DoctorDentons,
The truth of that quote is a bit different:
“Give me (General Patton) six spastic monkeys and Ted Kennedy armed with potato guns and a limousine, and I’ll STILL beat that… gentleman… to Messina!”
Patton… won. Period. End of argument.
Funny, Macarthur was Patton and Eisenhower’s commanding officer when they broke up the Veteran’s camp. 30 odd years later, Patton’s dead, Macarthur’s fired, and Eisenhower’s in the White House. Who’da thunk a butt-kissing internationalist would beat out a couple of dedicated, professional soldiers?
Clearchus scowls,
John Hawkwood grins,
Tranquier howls,
and Sforza wins.
(apologies on the name-spellings)
Hiraghm on May 5, 2007 at 3:38 PM
Thank you t_b – great link.
Note to Mr. Bush – though, he already knows the first, and third one…
Entelechy on May 5, 2007 at 3:39 PM
Machiavelli and Sun Tzu are still worth reading for the same reason the Founding Fathers still are: They possessed a fundamental understanding of human nature, and that doesn’t have an expiration date.
ReubenJCogburn on May 5, 2007 at 3:49 PM
Ayn Rand
…a good part of the world playing ostrich today…all in order to achieve this:
Ayn Rand
We must fight Islamo-fascism and the sadistic socia*ist/com*unist rulers and believers, fooling the masses. See Venzuela, Bolivia, chunks of Europe, and our elites who want to ‘lead’ us.
These two are the greatest dangers of our time and we need a leader who can convey this simply to those who don’t read much and have no idea who Machiavelli, Sun Tzu, Kipling, my favorite war strategist Genghis Khan, or Ayn Rand are.
Entelechy on May 5, 2007 at 4:01 PM
the bigger problem is the politics of it, the politicians may very well understand this stuff but the voters do not and generally do not like war or war posturing.
jp on May 5, 2007 at 4:12 PM
(csdeven, hide your eyes) jk
What a great time for a word from Fred!. This, like all his other writings, is excellent.
//hat tip to my good friend rayra over at GCP
techno_barbarian on May 5, 2007 at 4:13 PM
That’s the same advice my dad gave me when I told him a tough guy was picking on me 40 years ago.
I think his exact words were, “You tear into his ass and give him all you got. Next time, he’ll look for an easier target”
Applies to terrorists and schoolyard bullies.
BacaDog on May 5, 2007 at 4:44 PM
Well, I’ll be darned.
DaveS on May 5, 2007 at 4:45 PM
Did you watch Fred!’s interviews with hannity this week. He sounded great and was very good; but he looks old. And that bugs me. I hadn’t seen him live in a long time and it was a little surprising.
lorien1973 on May 5, 2007 at 4:47 PM
What’s ironic is that we have elected officials running around Europe and the middle east cozying up to these/our elites. Theirs and ours, like AlGore, JKerry, and the like, all enjoying each other company with the singularity of thought.
They think they know what’s best for us.
These dangerous people will use public opinion to sway us down the road where history has taught ua all been before.
Complacency in the face of evil. Because it’s easier to negotiate your subjugation till it’s too late to do anything about it (see Hugo Chevas) . Let there be no mistaking what evil’s plans for the the world and those who would placate into evil’s plans.
History continues to teach, some never learn the lessons.
Kini on May 5, 2007 at 4:52 PM
Heh, Kini, didn’t mean to eat the second ‘e’ in Venezuela, but just realized that I did :) Have a happy Hawaiian Saturday.
Entelechy on May 5, 2007 at 5:46 PM
I saw a little of that. I recorded his speech on CSPAN last night, but haven’t watched it yet (working). Also saw him on H&C a bit and recorded that too.
As far as looking and being old. He looks to be in pretty good shape to me. I don’t have any past history or knowledge of Fred!
Hell, I’d never even heard of him until a few months ago. Never even seen him in a movie or on TV. What he’s saying and writing right now are what’s got my attention riveted. Learning of his experience as an elected official just helped cement my support.
As far as I’m concerned, Fred!’s the right man for the times. Others are entitled to their opinions, of course.
techno_barbarian on May 5, 2007 at 5:59 PM
LOL! I too have been accused of murdering the English language!
Have a wonderful Weekend!
Kini on May 5, 2007 at 6:22 PM
Too late!
I actually liked a lot of what freddie boy had to say last night. I was disturbed that he claimed Ronnie used his suggestions in a speech. I’d like to know if this is verifiable. If it isn’t, it was a stupid thing to claim and is worse than name dropping. He referenced Ronnie several times and then Bush and John Wayne. That doesn’t bother me too much, because that is the kind of stuff his audience wanted to hear him say.
But in the final analysis, it was just another speech from another conservative who is NOT running for president.
csdeven on May 5, 2007 at 6:40 PM
Machiavelli also thought that living under a ruthless King was a good thing too, just saying.
Anybody who values democracy can’t take Machiavelli seriously.
Nonfactor on May 5, 2007 at 9:22 PM
Nonfactor, you’re wayyyy wrong there. Machavelli wrote a book on how to be a ruthless king–The Prince. But the point of the Discourses –where that passage comes from–is that it is a handbook about how Republics can keep their liberty.
And he was quite utterly ruthless in defense of that liberty, in ways modern people, heck, even the Founders, couldn’t tolerate.
A better criticism is that anyone who values human rights–or individual rights– can’t embrace his solutions for keeping a Republic free. But that’s way way way different from saying that you “can’t take him seriously”.
For that matter, I think Islamism is ridiculous, retrograde, and unworkable. But that doesn’t mean I shouldn’t take it seriously.
see-dubya on May 5, 2007 at 9:34 PM
63 comments. On Machiavelli. On a beautiful Saturday afternoon in May.
Warms my icy little heart.
see-dubya on May 5, 2007 at 9:35 PM
I’ve read them both. I’ve taken classes where both are discussed. People can argue that Machiavelli wasn’t being genuine when he was writing The Prince just as they can argue Plato wasn’t being serious when inventing his just society, but in the context of when and why he was writing the book it makes more sense to believe that he was genuine when talking about Kings and more hypothetical when talking about Republics.
True, poor choice of words.
Nonfactor on May 5, 2007 at 10:02 PM
The Prince was a job application to the re-instated Medici, trying to re-install himself as an adviser to them after he had been working as a councillor in Republican Florence–the very regime that had ousted the Medici in the first place.
see-dubya on May 5, 2007 at 10:09 PM
Machiavelli, The Prince XV:
Ambrose Bierce:
JimC on May 6, 2007 at 12:43 AM
A shame only Civilization’s enemy is taking Machiavelli seriously.
As Ulysses S. Grant put it:
“In every battle there comes a time when both sides consider themselves beaten, then he who continues the attack wins.”
profitsbeard on May 6, 2007 at 11:42 PM