Freelancer on May 4, 2007 at 11:28 AM

Rhetoric: Language that is elaborate, pretentious, insincere, or intellectually vacuous: His offers of compromise were mere rhetoric.

It’s ALWAYS dangerous to try to correct others writings etc. But, I wont hold that against you.

Support for a candidate is one thing, but this fred orgy is simply comical to me. It’s like watching the beatles get mobbed by hysterical teenagers. Considering fred is more an actor than a politician, that simularity is quite ironic and hard to miss. There are a lot of folks getting their panties in a real twist over this and I find that even more comical.

Now, to examine your quote here:

Almost everyone who responded to this straw poll considered him acceptable, meaning that regardless of who they preferred, he is someone they would vote for in a general election if he was the nominee. Try and spin that.

I’d have no problem with that if the poll was worded that way. It was not. This is how it was worded.

2008 GOP Straw Poll: April 2007:

Which candidates would you accept as the 2008 GOP nominee and which would you find unacceptable, and who is your first choice?

Unless we are supposed to ignore what words mean, this poll was worthless. If they wanted to know who we wanted to become a candidate then they should ask it that way. They did not, so adding fred gave it a false result.

Right now, all we know is that regardless of who is an actual candidate, fred has the highest appeal. But we didn’t need a poll to tell us that.

Perhaps the best way to illustrate my point is to ask you to answer this question….

Which actual candidate can we reliable point to as the favorite amongst those people who took the poll?

Overall, nearly 90% of respondents chose Fred! as acceptable. The next most broadly popular candidate is Romney at just over 72%, then Newt at 63%.

The backers of EVERY OTHER CANDIDATE saw Fred! as acceptable, mostly in the 65-80% range. Pataki backers who took a position on Fred (17) only gave him 58.8% acceptable, and McCain backers (405) saw Fred 60.7% acceptable. Those were the lows. Romney, Newt, and Giuliani supporters all rated Fred strongly acceptable (76.8%, 93.1%, 87.9% respectively)

No other name listed on the straw poll garnered net positive acceptable results from backers of every other name.

To me, this indicates much more than a fervency on the part of those who wish to see Fred run. Almost everyone who responded to this straw poll considered him acceptable, meaning that regardless of who they preferred, he is someone they would vote for in a general election if he was the nominee. Try and spin that.

It’s amazing how many people are convinced by pure rhetoric.

csdeven on May 3, 2007 at 3:50 PM

Shall we begin with a grammar lesson?

RHET’ORIC, n. [Gr. from to speak, to flow. Eng. to read. The primary sense is to drive or send. See Read.]

1. The art of speaking with propriety, elegance and force.

2. The power of persuasion or attraction; that which allures or charms. We speak of the rhetoric of the tongue, and the rhetoric of the heart or eyes.

Yes, let’s bash people for being persuaded by persuasion. Hmm.

Now let’s move on to a bit of substance. Unlike some people keep claiming, Fred is LESS of an unknown in the political world than virtually all of the (other) candidates. It is precisely his consistent record of integrity, allegiance to constitutional government, and unflagging conservatism that has so many people excited about the possibility of his candidacy.

Of course, if blogs are the ONLY place you learn about things, you could claim that you don’t know enough yet about Fred. But that would be your own fault, it’s SO VERY EASY to learn of a former senator’s voting record, or the history of his involvement in major political events, or his extensive time spent lobbying for regulation reforms, etc., not to mention his bold willingness to tell you his CLEAR OPINION about major issues affecting the nation, without sticking his finger in the wind, or conulting with a dozen mouthpieces first. (resisting temptation to say “Reaganesque here)

The fact is, the groundswell of people showing a preference for him is a desire to help make sure that he DOES decide to run. If nobody indicated support for him because he hadn’t formally announced yet, then he wouldn’t. So until he makes a decision, I’m not going to stop indicating my preference that he runs. For you to whine and cry that I should stop doing so? Thank you for your input, but please shove off.

I’ve been following Fred for YEARS, and have always found him to be forthright, conservative and JUST the kind of guy I’d be proud to support. It wasn’t me getting excited when people started talking about this guy, Fred… It WAS me getting excited to hear that, at a time when I was SOOOOO unhappy about the current batch of candidates, a person I respected is deciding to join the race.

Ah, better said than I could. Amen.

Your attitude is that of a democrat. You would rather support an unviable NON-candidate over candidates that actually showed the balls to make a decision and have a chance at getting elected.

I support Fred Thompson and I sincerely hope he runs. I don’t believe my attitude is that of a democrat. I support Thompson because, if he was a candidate, he would be viable. The rest of those a**clowns who ‘had the b**ls to run’ aren’t viable and are a bloody nuiscance. Ask yourself why Thompson is so popular. Because the rest of the mimbos suck. Nobody wants to vote for them. And this is hardcore base people, we’re talking here. None of these clowns are going to make it with the rest of the American people if they can’t excite the base. If Fred doesn’t run, the only one that has a snowballs chance in a blast furnace, is Rudy. And given his rather lackluster performance at the debate, his stock is falling. Taunt if you like, but if the GOP lines up another suckfest of candidates, they’re going to lose bigger than they did in 2006. We’re NOT like democrats. We’re not going to vote ‘turd sandwich’ just because he has an R next to his name.

Oh well.

CS, I’m now over it if you are.

Your cause is no more or less important than anyone else’s, but where we are enthusiastic and POSITIVE in our comments regarding Fred!, you are cynical and negative about our enthusiasm. That’s the difference.

I’m sorry if you’re annoyed, as I’ve said before. But you’re going to have to get over it and stop trying to repeatedly throw water on the Fred! Folks. We’ve gotten your point over and over and over.
Dead Horse

I am more than happy to accept an apology and bury the hatchet, so to speak, if and only if I believe that you’re done being condescending, insulting and snarky.

Sorta’ like pokin’ a possum with a stick to watch him hiss. [a little homespun Fred!-like metaphor]

Nevertheless judging by the high volume of wankers who pointed out the error of csdeven’s way he’s raging against the wind.

Fred!

It’s amazing how many people are convinced by pure rhetoric.

csdeven on May 3, 2007 at 3:50 PM

Ain’t that the truth.

Why it’s almost like the “pure rhetoric” that goes on from ALL the advertising we see ALL the time in ALL forms of media.

Simply amazing! There’s a whole lot of convincing rhetoric going on.

Will they finally stop calling me stupid when he announces already…and kindly F-off?

tickleddragon on May 3, 2007 at 11:53 PM

1) It was never my intent to call anyone stupid. This is mostly done tounge in cheek. If I did call you stupid, I apologize.
2) As I have said, IF! fred grows some balls and decides to run, then it makes sense to compare him against real candidates. Until then, he is a waste in a poll and as a viable candidate.

We all know that already. Regards,

Entelechy on May 3, 2007 at 11:47 PM

Yet, the fact that the fredamainia supporters have made it clear for weeks how they feel about him doesn’t stop them from beating that drum every day.

You say you’re sick of me pointing out the fred fever around here, well, I was sick of the fred fever long before that.

Now, what makes your pet cause more valid than mine?

It’s smart that he’s holding off, I believe. It’s a long way out yet from the primaries.
techno_barbarian on May 3, 2007 at 11:42 PM

TB nails it. We have a loooong way to go folks. I have to think that Fred! is being really savvy about this whole thing, and just waiting in the wings until the time is right. For those who have not seriously checked Fred! out, go look at his voting record, study his positions, then make up your mind. I’ve been watching him for a long time now, and have yet to see anything that has made my opinion of him drop. Keep an open mind, but keep an eye on Fred!

Frankly, I’m starting to wonder what I’d do if I didn’t have these folks to tell me I’m stupid for being supportive of a potential candidate.

THE GUY ISN’T EVEN A CANDIDATE and he’s being annointed the next POTUS.

csdeven on May 3, 2007 at 10:45 PM

csdeven, we actually got your take on this many days ago. If you’re not going to stop this, like amerpundit did (and whom I still respect a lot – acknowledged that it is what it is and moved on), you’re going to come across like honora and her violin – no matter what the topic “this admin. sucks. Except for you, no matter what thread on Fred “he’s not running yet”. We all know that already. Regards,

All you wankers for Fred ask yourself this question. What’s the difference between Fred and any other person who IS NOT running for president?

Answer: Nothing.

csdeven on May 3, 2007 at 5:37 PM

Heh, this is easy – my name wasn’t on the 2008 straw-poll we’re discussing here :)

THE GUY ISN’T EVEN A CANDIDATE and he’s being annointed the next POTUS.

csdeven on May 3, 2007 at 10:45 PM

You’re railing against something that is a formality. Like I said the other night, do you REALLY believe Fred!’s not gonna run?

Of course he’s running. He’s blogging all over the place, speaking great sense whenever he’s in the public spotlight. There’s no way he’s not running.

It’s smart that he’s holding off, I believe. It’s a long way out yet from the primaries.

Your whining about us supporting him without him being an ‘official’ candidate doesn’t make any sense to me. We’re not trying to keep you from supporting whomever you’d like. Please do us the return courtesy.

Thanks.

Ever hear of a dark horse candidate? Just ’cause Fred! hasn’t filed his paperwork with the FEC yet doesn’t mean he ain’t thinking about running. It’s not like he’s doing the media junket to get more frequent flier miles.

Patience is a virtue, plus it lets the weaker candidates die off.

I’ve annointed no one, Sparky.

I’m just happy to have a candidate to be enthusiastic about.

My emotional response was not to Fred!. It was to you making sweeping generalizations that Fred supporters were making decisions based only on emotions. Yes, yes, call me “emotional” but it kinda chaps my a$$ when folks lie about me, especially when they don’t know me.

THE GUY ISN’T EVEN A CANDIDATE and he’s being annointed the next POTUS.

csdeven on May 3, 2007 at 10:45 PM

So … your point is … ??

So, can the crap about us being emotional and swayed emotionally like liberals.
tickleddragon on May 3, 2007 at 10:01 PM

I am sorry that you have gotten so emotional over this. All I am saying is….

THE GUY ISN’T EVEN A CANDIDATE and he’s being annointed the next POTUS.