DoD consultants: If aliens invade, U.S. must wage jihad
posted at 2:14 pm on April 25, 2007 by Allahpundit
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Most awesomely awesome article I’ve ever posted?
Taylor and Boan are hardly basement-dwelling paranoids obsessed with tinfoil hats and Area 51. Taylor holds advanced degrees in astronomy and physics, and is an associate at consulting firm Booz Allen Hamilton. He and Boan have done consulting work for the Defense Department and the U.S. space agency NASA…
“One thing that popped into my mind was that the only way Americans would be in an asymmetric war on the other side would be if we were attacked by aliens. Everyone chuckled, but then after a minute the comments started setting in,” Taylor said.
“Then we really got to talking about it and we thought, well, you know, we really might need this contingency plan anyway,” Taylor said.
Failure to prepare may mean mankind will have to dig in and fight with improvised weapons and hit-and-run tactics, much the same way Islamic extremists have battled the U.S. military in Iraq, Taylor said.
“You’d have to create an insurgency, a mujahideen-type resistance,” Taylor said. “The insurgents know how to win this war against us. It also tells us that if we were attacked by aliens, this is our best defense.”
Dude:
I take comfort from the fact that no matter what tribulations might be visited upon us, Rick Ellensburg would be somewhere safe in Brazil writing posts about the media’s “complicity” in demonizing the alien hordes. And probably misrepresenting a post of mine in the process.
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Speaking of aliens …
Scientists have found a “new Earth?”
Gregor on April 25, 2007 at 2:21 PM
Not another post about illegal aliens. Please.
Attila (Pillage Idiot) on April 25, 2007 at 2:26 PM
Yup, AP, chocked full of awsome awsomeness. BTW just because you hold advance degrees in astronomy and physics does not mean you can’t be a
KelliD on April 25, 2007 at 2:28 PM
Tragically, Booz no doubt got paid several hundred thousand dollars of government money to come up with this nonsense.
Lehuster on April 25, 2007 at 2:28 PM
Harry Turtledove wrote a series of alternative history books (the World War series of four “… the Balance” books) based upon the premise of an alien invasion fleet that sent a probe to earth, found a bunch of guys riding horses, wearing fur, and carrying spears, and sent out an invasion fleet, figuring on an easy conquest.
The problem (for the aliens) is that by the time the fleet finally arrived, the landed amid the fully-militarized nations of Earth during World War II.
Personally, I say bring it on, now, while we still have Zaphod Beeblebrox in the White House.
Bob Owens on April 25, 2007 at 2:28 PM
But which side would the MSM cover?
LakeRuins on April 25, 2007 at 2:28 PM
Whoa, one war at a time! I’m still stockpiling ammo to use on the Jihadis.
RedWinged Blackbird on April 25, 2007 at 2:29 PM
shhhh don’t tell the libs where I’m from or they’ll go and ruin my home planet like they’re ruining America…
Kaptain Amerika on April 25, 2007 at 2:29 PM
But… but… they come in peace…
Zap, Zap, Zappity, Zap Zap!
p.s. Does anyone else think of “Mars Attacks” every time they hear “Religeon of Peace?”
db on April 25, 2007 at 2:29 PM
Hmmm, I wonder where Allah’s going on vacation?
KelliD on April 25, 2007 at 2:32 PM
AP - here’s a question for you: Exactly what is the difference between the war we’re fighting against Islamofascists, and a war with aliens? Is this a distinction without a difference? The Islamofascists may not be from another planet, but they are from a different time.
stonemeister on April 25, 2007 at 2:34 PM
Sheesh, couldn’t they just adopt the strategy of the Wolverines from Red Dawn? Just substitute the aliens for the russions and, VOILA - planning complete.
Either that or we better start building those great big sound wave generators to protect us like in Earth vs The Flying Saucers (one of my favorite childhood movies!)
LOL
Fatal on April 25, 2007 at 2:35 PM
Why are we waiting for the aliens to come here. Everytime we find a planet, we should nuke it. Teach those bastards not to mess with earth.
lorien1973 on April 25, 2007 at 2:40 PM
Unless there’s a death star involved, then PFFFFT fini
Speakup on April 25, 2007 at 2:40 PM
Somehow I mind this less than most gov’t waste.
I know, we can hijack one of their fighters and fly it into the mothership and uplaod a computer virus that will cripple their network of orbiting platforms! I ain’t heard no fat lady!
see-dubya on April 25, 2007 at 2:43 PM
No. If it was done with government funds, it was done at the request and approval of the customer. In other words, if you have problems with it, blame the customer.
rbb on April 25, 2007 at 2:43 PM
Too much BSG?
Drtuddle on April 25, 2007 at 2:43 PM
Didn’t we already try this in “V”? Ah, the days of Marc Singer…
Chris L. on April 25, 2007 at 2:44 PM
Wasn’t there a miniseries about this thing? As I remember, they went guerilla warfare.
Slublog on April 25, 2007 at 2:44 PM
I think we should declare ourselves a “sanctuary planet” and not even check if they’re aliens or not. All they want are jobs afterall.
Mojave Mark on April 25, 2007 at 2:45 PM
Okay, that was just weird.
Slublog on April 25, 2007 at 2:45 PM
Will the democrats be busy welcoming our new alien overlords while the jihad is still in progress? Will they give up pre-emptively? These are questions that must be addressed.
lorien1973 on April 25, 2007 at 2:47 PM
That was entertaining, but it’s a horrible article. It even mischaracterizes much of the basic information it’s trying to convey, like the Fermi paradox (which asks, if aliens exists, why haven’t we detected them, not why haven’t
contacted us).
I’ve obviously no trouble with people writing entertaining bits of fiction about fantastic survival scenarios: Max Brooks’s “World War Z” and “Zombie Survival Guide” are great entertainment. But it’d be a mistake to take the alien invasion thing any more seriously than zombie one.
Blacklake on April 25, 2007 at 2:49 PM
Eh, formatting error. “They” was meant to be itallicized. Infernal contraptions…
Blacklake on April 25, 2007 at 2:50 PM
Just one BIG flaw in this logic.
This is assuming there are aliens, and they are advanced in technology enough to transport here and actually invade.
This also is ASSUMING that the aliens will wage war against us in the same one-hand-tied-behind-my-back method that we are now fighting against Islamic Jihadist.
If we think the holocaust against the Jews in WWII was bad, just wait until an alien race with superior technology wages war on us on any kind of global scale.
Lawrence on April 25, 2007 at 3:03 PM
This also is ASSUMING that the aliens will wage war against us in the same one-hand-tied-behind-my-back method that we are now fighting against Islamic Jihadist. If we think the holocaust against the Jews in WWII was bad, just wait until an alien race with superior technology wages war on us on any kind of global scale.
Absolutely. The most likely scenario is not that they want to occupy / control us, but kill us all and move their own species in. They will start with genetically tailored supervirus that kills 99% of the human population, then clean up with hunter killer droids.
Lehuster on April 25, 2007 at 3:06 PM
This also assumes that the aliens don’t have a MSM back home constantly bending over backwards to undermine the war.
CurtZHP on April 25, 2007 at 3:10 PM
for aliens to have reached Earth “they” would have had to conquer light speed… not likely, while I believe they do exist… “they” will most likely never reach Earth as we will never reach “them”… I’m all for government funding for trying though… a much better use of money then what to do if “they” want to fight, when “they” get here… “they” won’t want to fight… to be as advanced as they would have to be… there is no way “they” would find another life form and want to snuff it out… unless that life form were infidel… mmmm on second thought
Kaptain Amerika on April 25, 2007 at 3:10 PM
I have the Book already:
An Introduction to Planetary Defense: A Study of Modern Warfare Applied to Extra-Terrestrial Invasion
http://www.amazon.com/Introduction-Planetary-Defense-Extra-Terrestrial-Invasion/dp/1581124473/ref=pd_bbs_sr_4/102-8545095-5827320?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1177528402&sr=8-4
Editorial Reviews
Book Description
This book describes a serious look at defending the planet in the event of an extra-terrestrial invasion. Travis Taylor, et al, have written the definitive book on the defense of earth against a potential alien incursion. Whatever your beliefs on the subject, and despite many of my own popular novels I am agnostic at best, the book also serves as an important primer on the potential future of warfare on every level. It is tightly grounded in current day realities of war and extrapolates thoughtfully but closely about future potentials. It should be on the reading list of anyone who is serious about national security and the future of war.
About the Author
Travis Shane Taylor is a born and bred southerner and resides just outside Huntsville, Alabama. He has a Doctorate in Optical Science and Engineering, a Master’s degree in Physics, a Master’s degree in Aerospace Engineering, all from the University of Alabama in Huntsville; a Master’s degree in Astronomy from the Univ. of Western Sydney, and a Bachelor’s degree in Electrical Engineering from Auburn University. He is a licensed Professional Engineer in the state of Alabama. Dr. Taylor has worked on various programs for the Department of Defense and NASA for the past sixteen years. He is currently working on several advanced propulsion concepts, very large space telescopes, space based beamed energy systems, future combat technologies and systems, and next generation space launch concepts. He is also involved with multiple MASINT, SIGINT, IMINT, and HUMINT concept studies. He has published over 25 papers and the appendix on solar sailing in the 2nd edition of Deep Space Probes by Greg Matloff.
Dr. Bob Boan has been an active member of the space community for over a quarter of a century. He has worked on a variety of manned and unmanned space programs at different levels of responsibility over that time. Prior to his space experience he was a member of graduate school in several states. Dr. Boan is also recognized as a community expert on SIGINT, IMINT, and Communication systems and concepts. He also has significant MASINT experience. He has multiple relevant patents and technical publications. Dr. Boan has attended a variety of colleges and universities. He received his BS from Campbell University, then Campbell College. His Master’s was awarded by the University of Mississippi. He earned his doctorate at the Florida Institute of Technology.
Charles Anding received his bachelor’s degree in Electrical Engineering from Mississippi State University in 1978. He has additional studies in systems engineering, digital signal processing and electromagnetic environmental effects. Mr. Anding has applied his creativity and expertise to solve a diversity of engineering problems for over 25 years. He has designed electronics and systems for space, military, industrial and medical products. He was the prime contractor’s chief engineer for the design and development of a furnace system to grow semiconductor crystals in microgravity on both the Space Shuttle and the International Space Station. He supported its use on multiple Spacelab missions, including training of the astronauts and sitting console for payload operations Mr. Anding was the chief engineer, along with Dr. Taylor as chief scientist, for the development of a novel new mission and spacecraft for exploring Pluto. He has designed and supported equipment on Navy fighter aircraft, Army main battle tanks, and attack helicopters. Non-invasive cardiac monitors for medical market, industrial robotics for the nuclear segment and user authorized handguns are just a few more examples of his broad experience base. He is currently designing controls for demilitarization of binary chemical weapons and beginning research and development for future fuel cell based power systems for rugged environments as well as building unmanned aerial vehicles for defense purposes. Dr. Thomas Conley Powell holds a B.A. in physics from Berea College, an M.S. in engineering science from the University of Tennessee Space Institute, and a Ph.D. in mechanical engineering from the University of Kentucky. He is a senior scientist with BAE Systems in Huntsville, Alabama. Before joining BAE, he was a faculty member at the Space Institute; a member of the technical staff at Arnold Engineering Development Center, near Tullahoma, Tennessee; and a member of the technical staff of Teledyne Brown Engineering, in Huntsville. He has taught graduate courses in subjects ranging from astrophysics to nuclear engineering, and has worked in areas as diverse as aircraft control and nuclear fusion. However, his specialties are space trajectories, attitude dynamics, and numerical analysis. Recently he has developed an innovative fire-control system for artillery and surface-to-surface and surface-to-space rockets. He is writing a textbook on orbital mechanics.
tort_feasor on April 25, 2007 at 3:15 PM
The very sad - but very true - reality is that this strategy would ONLY work if it can be assumed that somewhere back on the aliens’ home planet, there was a major political party actively working to undermine their own military.
Seriously.
Told you it was sad.
Professor Blather on April 25, 2007 at 3:15 PM
When did Michael Moore start ghostwriting books about alien invaders to peaceful countries?
eforhan on April 25, 2007 at 3:16 PM
Sir, please stand up and step away from your L. Ron Hubbard collection …
Professor Blather on April 25, 2007 at 3:17 PM
And this is definitely the awesomest article ever posted.
Did Ace still it yet?
Professor Blather on April 25, 2007 at 3:18 PM
Wait a minute. Why would they our planet? Don’t they know it’s doomed?
I’ll bet if we sent them a copy of An Inconvenient Truth , they’d go away. And probably buy some carbon offsets, too.
Can’t we just call Ender Wiggins? Or Bill Pullman and Randy Quaid?
Professor Blather on April 25, 2007 at 3:21 PM
Bob’s first law of insurgent warfare (from Bob’s Laws in No Particular Order)…
The side with the
helicoptersspaceships looses.RC2 on April 25, 2007 at 3:22 PM
The “Fermi Paradox” is the conflict between, on the one hand, something we have no freaking clue about and, on the other hand, something we have no freaking clue about.
It’s fine, heck even fun, to speculate about alien life and the universe. But to try and make yourself sound scholarly while you’re making up crap, that’s irritating.
As far as the article, hopefully they didn’t spend too much on the “study,” but at least they addressed some potentially useful stuff, like insurgencies, fighting a war against superior technology, organizing people and supplies against a variety of obstacles…
No freaking clue how many planets in the universe have intelligent life
vs.
No freaking clue how often if ever aliens have stopped by
In a cage match to the death!!!
Sorry, but completely useless debates are a pet peeve of mine.
Merovign on April 25, 2007 at 3:23 PM
I plan on sneezing a lot and playing Country yodeling music really loud. Laugh if you wish, it works!
PS - I don’t think we can’t count on Alien Democrats to undermine their will to win.
TheBigOldDog on April 25, 2007 at 3:23 PM
And by “still” I meant “steal” in your native tongue, of course. My cool new lingo hasn’t reach white suburbia yet. You’ll all be using “still” by next summer.
So I checked and answered my question, and no - Ace has yet to STEAL your awesomest article.
However - he does have Godzilla. That’s pretty tough to beat.
Professor Blather on April 25, 2007 at 3:25 PM
You know as someone who has had study these stupid centers-of-gravity powerpoint graphs throughout his Air Force career, I can comfortable say that that graphic makes absolutely no sense.
John from OPFOR on April 25, 2007 at 3:25 PM
Then you should definitely enjoy some of the prior threads on religion! They’re a hoot!
Professor Blather on April 25, 2007 at 3:25 PM
has had “to” study… I should say.
Hey, that sentence made no sense.
Supa!
John from OPFOR on April 25, 2007 at 3:26 PM
Okay, as long as we are discussing extraordinarily unlikely scenerios, how about this one?:
What if the sole purpose of the alien invasion armada that drops in on the earth is to exterminate liberals (exclusively). Whose side would you be on? (I like to ask the hard questions.)
It could be more fun than a Vent video, presuming that the aliens actually talk like Dr. Who’s Dialects.
EXTERMINATE!
CyberCipher on April 25, 2007 at 3:26 PM
Professor Blather - But that could never happen, I mean, there’s no precedent!!!
:)
Merovign on April 25, 2007 at 3:29 PM
What if the sole purpose of the alien invasion armada that drops in on the earth is to exterminate liberals (exclusively). Whose side would you be on?
Professor Blather on April 25, 2007 at 3:29 PM
Professor Blather at 3:25:
But at least when debating religion, we can provide examples!!!
:)
Merovign on April 25, 2007 at 3:30 PM
I love it when I screw up quote tags. That’s hot.
Professor Blather on April 25, 2007 at 3:30 PM
Unfortunately, there is one other major problem (aside from the Aliens being unlikely to follow hand-tying ROE’s): Unlike the “insurgents” in Iraq, we wouldn’t be getting regular assistance from Mars (Iran) and Venus (Syria)…
jeffshultz on April 25, 2007 at 3:33 PM
You’re damn right it is. We should constantly be preparing for the impending zombie menace.
Kai on April 25, 2007 at 3:33 PM
(I laughed out loud at that)
Seriously though. Aliens have to make a road trip. The zombies are already here. Think about that one for a moment. Smoke something first. It’ll help.
Professor Blather on April 25, 2007 at 3:35 PM
The debate rages still whether we shall face slow, lumbering zombies or fast-moving, highly infectious zombies.
The tactical impact is substantial!
And what if the aliens use zombies as an invading force, hmmm?
Merovign on April 25, 2007 at 3:43 PM
Let us not forget They Live and the fact the the GOP most likely will be complicit in the alien invasion.
Save the Green Planet provides an interesting tinfoil perspective to the phenomena of alien invasion.
rw on April 25, 2007 at 3:43 PM
Wal-Mart
Winchester 9mm JHP ammo (50/box) $15
Winchester .40 JHP ammo (50/box) $18
Remington .40 JHP 100pak $26
Ball/FMJ ammo is much cheaper, but with the squishyness of the zombie heads, we need something that will dissapate the energy and not punch a whole clean through.
Now is the time to exercise our 2nd Amendment rights. Ben Franklin and Thomas Jefferson KNEW that we would face the Zombie Apocalypse someday. They saw it firsthand in Europe and Africa. That’s what 2A is for.
BE READY
Kai on April 25, 2007 at 3:44 PM
I’m still waiting for CyberCipher to explain more about his hypothetical liberal-exterminating-creatures-from-space, before I decide who to root for.
Professor Blather on April 25, 2007 at 3:45 PM
And I’d be willing to bet their numbers are growing.
RedWinged Blackbird on April 25, 2007 at 3:45 PM
That’s why you prepare for both. Have a partner (with a gun of course) and some good running shoes.
Either way, we’d have to deal with the zombies first. Stockpile more ammo.
Kai on April 25, 2007 at 3:47 PM
And the AztlanAliens…They’re coming here from all angles…Hell, we’ll probably not even notice any new invaders…
Anyway, if any ’space alien’ life form can reach the earth, they will be so far advanced intellectually, we won’t stand a chance.
(hope they land in the middle east)
shooter on April 25, 2007 at 3:52 PM
Uh, the aliens are already here, and not in small numbers.
20 million of ‘em.
Mode of transport: Nike
Strategy for Victory: Imprison Border Patrol Agents
Weapons Technology: Pro-Model Series 1000 Weedeater
fogw on April 25, 2007 at 3:54 PM
No way. No Wal-Mart for me.
When the undead aliens arrive, shop smart. Shop S-Mart.
Professor Blather on April 25, 2007 at 3:56 PM
If you’d read “World War Z,” you’d know that .22 is the prefered caliber for cleaning up zombies.
Blacklake on April 25, 2007 at 3:59 PM
Nephilim of Genesis. Were they fallen angels, alien beings, or evil descendants of Cain or Seth?
abinitioadinfinitum on April 25, 2007 at 4:06 PM
It was a joke. Once again, I am largely misunderstood.
**sigh**
Oh well, if it makes ya’ feel better, I think the “Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy” scenerio is far more likely. I can see planet earth being blasted to smithereens in order to clear the way for an inter-galactic freeway.
(Makes sense to me.)
CyberCipher on April 25, 2007 at 4:10 PM
I know Max Brooks thinks he’s mister guns when it comes to zombies, but I don’t know if I can trust my life to the .22lr.
I’m comfy with the .40 and the 9mm, so that’s what I’ll use. Ideally, once I get the m4/AR, the wife will be on backup with the pistols.
Kai on April 25, 2007 at 4:12 PM
Although… having one of these babies on the 22lr might work. Assuming they’re reliable and g2g.
Kai on April 25, 2007 at 4:13 PM
argh. LINKY
DRUM
Kai on April 25, 2007 at 4:15 PM
I have a plan. Contaminate their food with melamine. Sell at a large discount. Laugh all the way to the Zionist-controlled bank.
shaken on April 25, 2007 at 4:21 PM
Stop giving AllahPundit more ideas for threads with a religious theme, okay? Make him think them up on his own.
We don’t want to make it TOO easy for him.
CyberCipher on April 25, 2007 at 4:23 PM
Ockham’s razor
abinitioadinfinitum on April 25, 2007 at 4:31 PM
My personal preference?…Hanlon’s Razor, viz.:
CyberCipher on April 25, 2007 at 4:40 PM
All you got to do is sneeze on the bastards and they’ll die. Doesn’t anyone watch the movies?!?!
Yakko77 on April 25, 2007 at 4:46 PM
Sean Hannity - Co-Host: “We continue our series tonight about eminent domain abuse across the universe.”
kiakjones on April 25, 2007 at 4:56 PM
On a related note,
Did you ever wonder what really did happen after the Death Star was destroyed?
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8457584170590415935&q=robot+chicken+star+wars&hl=en
budorob on April 25, 2007 at 5:05 PM
Uh, yes, Cyber. It was. A funny joke, which I was enjoying, which is why I decided to play along with the joke and add my own silliness. Or was enjoying, until I had to explain this.
Not that alien invasion is any laughing matter.*
* That line, also, was a joke. Not that I would actually laugh at the idea of liberal destroying aliens. **
** Yes I would. But I’d feel guilty later. ***
*** Note: these two were tongue-in-cheek comments.
Sigh.
Professor Blather on April 25, 2007 at 5:08 PM
Alien Zombies? Huh? I thought I stumbled on an Area51 forum! I’m not worried abou the aliens or the zombies–our superior Earth Dogs can take care of them. It’s the Rosie Replicants that scare the crap out of me.
robblefarian on April 25, 2007 at 5:53 PM
Covered this already….
ScottG on April 25, 2007 at 7:33 PM
Answer #1: Umm, no. Zaphod is soooo much closer to a description of Billy Jeff than GWB, it’s almost scary. Come on, gold lame’ shorts and picking up the first semi-interesting girl he sees…
Answer #2: Hey, he’s just this guy, see…
Answer #3: Don’t Panic!
**Just another hoopy frood who knows where his towel is**
Freelancer on April 25, 2007 at 9:18 PM
Nancy Pelosi is a (an?) B.E.M.
k2comp on April 25, 2007 at 9:38 PM
Oh and btw……… .17 Mach 2 will do a Zombie way better than any .22!
k2comp on April 25, 2007 at 9:41 PM
Yeah … but you have to get so close … They are kind of icky …
I will vote for my .308 and some high ground. If they get close, we can move to the .44M. I don’t want them getting up or staying intact.
Anyway, doubtful that would happen … The aliens/zombies only want to come do the jobs Americans won’t and run for office in Minnesota.
AZ_Redneck on April 25, 2007 at 10:11 PM
I think that’s great. Now… where’s the plan in case Godzilla attacks Los Angeles?
Maxx on April 26, 2007 at 12:05 AM
Could it be applied to aliens South of the border?
Ropera on April 26, 2007 at 12:38 AM
I would just like to point out that you can have a prestigious job and a fancy degree while still being a basement-dwelling paranoiac obsessed with tinfoil hats and Area 51.
As an example, a few hours ago I was watching a show on the History Channel about conspiracy theories. They were talking to two or three different crazies that were saying that a group of around one hundred and twenty people control everything in the world (including the President, of course), and Daniel Pipes was alone in saying that they were all off their meds.
Wolfman on April 26, 2007 at 4:42 AM
I say it’s time for those space weapons! Shoot ‘em up, shoot ‘em up, pow pow…
RD on April 26, 2007 at 8:29 AM
We wouldn’t stand a chance against space-faring invaders.
The far greater danger would not be from aliens from space conquering us, bu aliens from space *trading* with us. Recall what happened to the SouthSea Islanders and the aboriginal cultures of the Americas when the encountered advanced, capitalist civilizations.
This topic has been covered in the excellent book Footfall
Earth is invaded by baby elephants. The baby Elephants win…
Then Archangel Michael casts the dragon from heaven.
I want production of Archangel-class assault ships begun NOW. Colony on the moon in one-shot, anyone?
Another story dealing with alien “invasion” was “Second Contact”… the interstellar equivalent of a tramp steamer visits Earth, and so humiliates and denigrates us that civilization collapses.
When a small collection of humans are rebuilding civilization 20 years later, when another ship comes back. Fearing that they’ve come to finish the job, the humans discover that this group is a group of sociologists, come to study us… because they can’t figure out how we managed to recover so quickly… which is very, very important to them, because THEIR civilization is collapsing. Good story. Libs suck in it, conservatives shine.
Then there’s No Truce with Kings, where civilization has collapsed and is rebuilding, a war is waging… and do-gooder aliens are trying to guide us into a peaceful future from behind the scenes. The liberals are (quite properly) the bad guys in this one. Being a confederate at heart, I like the conclusion.
(Like I said, the dangerous space aliens will be the ones coming to do us good (much like the gov’t) not an invading army.)
Long Live the Climbing Fithp!
Hiraghm on April 26, 2007 at 2:29 PM
oh! forgot to add… emphasis on “individual” was mine.
Hiraghm on April 26, 2007 at 2:39 PM